ABOUT FIRST READ

First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



The GOP's general election problem

Posted: Monday, October 22, 2007 10:39 AM by Mark Murray
Filed Under: ,

From NBC's Mark Murray and Andy Merten
So far this election season, we've watched and attended what has to be dozens of presidential candidate debates and public forums. But at last night's GOP debate, something happened for the very first time: A candidate -- Ron Paul -- drew boos.

What Paul said that produced those boos is nothing new for the anti-war, libertarian Texas congressman. "I think the American people, if we as a party realize this and understand it ... the people in America want the [Iraq] war over with. They're sick and tired of it, and they want our troops to come home."

While many in the audience weren't happy with Paul's comments, those Republicans represent a minority of Americans -- which highlights a looming general election problem for the GOP. According to last month's NBC/WSJ poll, 56% said removing Saddam Hussein from power wasn't worth the US casualties or financial cost of the war; 56% said victory isn't possible in Iraq; and a whopping 63% said that Bush's troop surge either isn't making a difference or is making the situation worse.

And Iraq isn't the only issue on which Republicans -- and their presidential candidates -- disagree with a majority of Americans. Last night, Giuliani, Romney, Huckabee, and McCain all talked about their support for private Social Security accounts.

Giuliani said, "I think the reality is that we have to deal with Social Security. The first thing we have to do is get a consensus behind private accounts if we're going to change it." Romney noted, "... [T]he president said let's have private accounts and take that surplus money that's being gathered now in Social Security and put that into private accounts. That works." Huckabee added, "The president had the right idea, but he used the wrong word. When he used the word 'privatization,' it scared the daylights out of a lot of people because it was right in the middle... The right word is 'personalization.'" And McCain remarked, "We need personal savings accounts, but we got to fix this system."

The problem for those Republicans is that privatizing Social Security, personalizing it -- or whatever you want to call it -- is a general election loser, pure and simple. In May 2005, when Bush's approval rating was at 47% and Democrats were demoralized after losing the presidential election, 56% still said that it was a bad idea to allow workers to invest their Social Security contributions in the stock market. Just 36% said it was a good idea.

The Republican presidential candidates are already facing a tough political environment heading into next year. But they might not be doing themselves a favor by backing a war and private accounts -- which a strong majority of Americans oppose.
 

MAIN PAGE

Email this EMAIL THIS

Comments

To those who booed RP or those who don't want out of Iraq....be sure an sign up your able bodied sons for the cause in the same breath.  How many boys does Mitt have who would make good soldiers?  4...5?  Sign 'em up and ship 'em out.
Do the left-wingers, liberals and Dems in general, have ANY other argument based upon facts?  I am so sick and tired of the "victimization" of America. Social Security was NEVER intended to be used for a person's ENITRE retirement.  It was a supplement to what they should have been saving all along.

The media makes or breaks a candidate.  If this were not true, why is a candidate's worthiness determined by how much $$$ they raise each quarter? There are not any winners and losers in these debates.  Most of the public is not watching and only getting the 30 second sound bites that their lacking intellects can handle.
Ron Paul 2008!

Amy,

You're just a sheep. You thinks Democrats are any better? You fool.
Common sense?  More like typical liberal solution to a problem.  Throw more money into a government program, regardless of said program's merits, or lack thereof.  As it is, Social Security taxes net less return than privately run savings accounts that are insured by the same government that runs Social Security.  People who are scared to death of the stock market (despite the fact that, historically, investing in the S&P 500 over a 50 year period is the closest thing to a sure path to millionaire status mankind could ever hope to see) and would rather trust the government would be far better off putting their money in privately owned savings accounts or treasuries than continuing to throw their money down the Social Security sinkhole.
Yeah, those of you who think Hillary will win in a landslide need to look at some history.  You don't have to go too far back.  Yep, just to 2000 when I and everyone else thought Gore was in with both feet.  If we have a general election instead of the electoral college I would be confident Hillary is "Da' Man" but with the amount of voter fraud allegations and how all of these issues were subtly, quietly suppressed in the media and investigations were never followed through, I am pretty confident your over-confidence is going to screw you.  Even the chief Democratic political strategist says the same thing.  Don't jump the gun.
IMPEACH you were just being silly, right?
Yup, there is not a REPUKELICAN on earth I would vote for!
Hannity bitches after every debate----he cannot stand that his Rudy(who he introduces at fundraisers)does not win the online fox poll.Ron Paul always gets the most votes.And for the litt ugly pollster luntz---what do you expect from him---he is a neocon Bush butt kisser.Just watched a little of the debate---mainly when they had Hillary Clinton breakdowns.We love the war(Iran next)and hate Hillary.I am glad none of them are not democrats---I could not vote  for any of them except for maybe ron paul.Insanity on stage-----truly a pathetic bunch.As for the boos---wonder how much they were paid to sound and look like fools?
The winning Democratic mantra will be ---

Republicans are extreme not mainstream.
there is no doubt that the 'powers that be' are intimidated by mr. paul, the blatant attacks and constant 'cover up' of how many actually back paul are only reasons to like him more, but as seen on these posts the media portrays him as radical libertarian which is simply not the case, he is much more of a republican than any of the front runners, he needs to find a way to get that point out, but as I said the media really does not the real ron paul revealed to the general public, because they would like him.
I have yet to see a Republican I can really support for President but even the worst Republican trumps the best Democrat.  Wait a minuit, there is n no best Democrat.  They're all a bunch of baby-killing, queer loving, gun banning far left neo-comunists.
Ron Paul is right on...He is one of the few candidates on either side who believes that laws should adhere to the limits outlined in the US Constitution; where in the Constitition does it state that Uncle Sam is empowered to make appropriate tax dollars for Education or to enact laws regarding such?
The same clowns who don't understand how the Social Security system is going broke, believe the $60B beauracratic waste machine called the Department of Education is an effective means of educating children.
Vote for Hilary and not only will our Constitution continue to be trampled upon, but the US Taxpayer will be totally subservient to the Government...our Founding Father's worst nightmare...
"it is the only issue on which Mr. Paul is any where near reasonable.  All other issues he is a radical libertarian and would do away with All government." --steve everingham (Sent Monday, October 22, 2007 11:03 AM)

Wow, so believing that government only exists to maximize individual freedom is now considered "radical"? I'm glad nobody told that to the American revolutionaries...

"You guys keep reciting polls. Maybe 75% of LIBERALS want the U.S. to lose in Iraq. Those polls may be national but they are not reflected of a cross between political lines. I live and work among people from both sides of the issue and I have yet to hear the majrity say lets get the hell out. A lot say we need to be more forceful and brutal." --Gene, CA (Sent Monday, October 22, 2007 11:35 AM)

No, it's a majority of the American people: http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm . 67% against Bush's handling of the war, 63% think things are going badly, 72% against large numbers of troops being in Iraq two years from now, 65% opposed to the war, 59% or more think it wasn't worth fighting, 54% or more want a withdrawal even if it means no civil order there, 55% don't think the Democrats have done enough in opposing the war, 67% want to reduce war funding, and on resolving the war a Democrat president preferred to a Republican president by 51%-31%.

"Raising the cap on Social Security to only the first $250,000 in salary will fix it in perpetuity, but try that and all repubs scream "HIGHER TAXES"."
--common sense, not rich man's politics (Sent Monday, October 22, 2007 11:38 AM)

Even though the Social Security tax is regressive, Social Security payouts are even more progressive. The net effect is a very much progressive system. Raising the tax cap or expanding it to capital income without increasing the payout to people who pay more would turn the system from the semi-insurance program that it is and was intended to be into a flat-out welfare program. If we're going to go that far, might as well just scrap it and simply pay for retiree/disability benefits out of general revenue.
The faster we pitch these fools out of government, and PREVENT their return, the better off we all will be. The reasons Republicans back the war is that they're making MONEY off of it, and THEIR kids are not fighting it!
It is amazing how so many Americans want to bury their heads in the sand and pretend that there is not a threat from Neo-con-poop, nutwing, bush & dick loving Extremist.
Ron Paul is right on...He is one of the few candidates on either side who believes that laws should adhere to the limits outlined in the US Constitution; where in the Constitition does it state that Uncle Sam is empowered to make appropriate tax dollars for Education or to enact laws regarding such?
The same clowns who don't understand how the Social Security system is going broke, believe the $60B beauracratic waste machine called the Department of Education is an effective means of educating children.
Vote for Hilary and not only will our Constitution continue to be trampled upon, but the US Taxpayer will be totally subservient to the Government...our Founding Father's worst nightmare...
Here is something new for you TRUE BELIEVERS to chew on. A gentleman from Oklahoma who worked for KBR in Iraq was called out to fix a refridgerator truck that had been broken down for two weeks. When he got there, there was a horrendous smell coming from the trailer. he fixed the engine and then looked inside to find Iraqi bodies melting in the back, bodily fluids soaking into the floorboards. He saw that same trailer, later, being used by KBR to haul food and ice to the troops. One gentleman called a load of ice BIO-COTAMINATED, 1,800 pds were used before he could stop this ice from being used to cool the drinks of our troops. This is counter to DOD policy, once the truck is used as a temporary mortuary it is no longer to be used for food and drinks for the troops. Usually the DOD takes 4 to 6 weeks to investigate. The DOD has been asking for extension after extension to look into the problem. They know it is a problem, they are sweeping the poisoning of our troops under the rug. If your child has just come back from the war, you better get them to start testing for AIDS, that is just one of the things that they can get from contaminated food and ice. War profiteering, ain't it great.
The ignorance of the American people who allowed themselves to be manipulated by the mainstream media amazes me. In spite of all evidence to the contrary regarding WMD, they still think Saddam didn't have them. Duh!! He used them over and over. Satellite images show convoys under the cover of daarkness going into Syria just before Saddam knew the invasion was coming (Carrying Cheerios I guess). Russian and Iraqi pilots have testified about flying WMD into Syria. Bottom line....thanks to Bush...No attacks on this country since 9/11 and economic progress after the recession Clinton left us with due to tax cuts. The wealthy are paying more (to satisfy our socialists out there) and gov't revenues are at an all time high. The deficit is being reduced and there were almost as many innocent non-volunteer Americans killed on 9/11 as there has been in this war. Give me a break! Lefties have been smoking funny weed too long.
"Ron Paul is a joke much like the Democrats.  Twenty-three uncommitted voters were asked if he won the debate and not a single hand went up." --Dan G., Pensacola, FL (Sent Monday, October 22, 2007 11:52 AM)

That was a very small sample of a very fringe right-wing segment of the party. They're not even representative of primary voters, let alone all Republicans or American voters in general. Ron Paul appeals to anti-war Republicans (a third of the party), Democrats, and independents, but also to civil libertarians concerned with the rise of Big Brother government and fiscal conservatives who realize the GOP no longer cares about them or their values.
I never sat through a bunch of men going after a woman like that.  It was, for me, an introduction of things to come if Hillary does win the DEM Nomination.  Hillary, if you are reading these...you better begin to get your WAR ROOM together and now is not too early to begin constructing it.
I have read all these comments and it is apparant that almost none of you have the foggiest idea of what this world is all about. The vast majority of you are out for a handout from the government paid for by someone else.  Get real!  Do a little studying of history, this country and this world.  Then you will see the problems this country has and where they come from.  With the vast majority of you, the attitude is that this country should cease to exist.
"It is amazing how so many Americans want to bury their heads in the sand and pretend that there is not a threat from Islamic Extremist."

There's a threat, sure.  Why we need to invade country after country, killing civilians and losing our own troops over it is what I don't get.  Do you check for a suicide bomber under your bed every night?
It's so funny the way all these commenters who are against the war keep talking about the Democrats like they're going to stop it. HELLO, we've had a Democratic majority in Congress for 10 months and they've yet to even try to pull out the troops. Any such bills got voted down. Maybe they lied during their compaigns, or maybe, once they get in a position to know what's really going on, they realize pulling out would be a mistake. Either way, you cut-and-run cowards have NO candidates, and you're in acute denial about it.
It is comic to compare this bunch of empty suited Neanderthals and like thinkers with their Democratic counterparts. The Democrats are intelligent, articulate, have programs, argue with each other over these programs and are generally lively, while the Republicans are fighting with each other to say the same trite thing in different words, they can barely even start a sentence, don't really argue but generally follow the tired old Republican line in all matters (except for Paul, but he's a lapsed Libertarian with all the anachronistic nonsense of that group). If you were to take the word "tax" out of the English Language none of the Republican candidates could frame a single sentence; "I cut more taxes that you did. Yah, yah." and the response "No you didn't. You only cut taxes 19 times and I cut them 23 times. Yah,yah."

Thank God I'm a Democrat and can find four or five candidates I can support out of their group. For the first time I remember, I can't find even one I could come close to supporting out of the Republican collection of Pet Rocks. Even John McCain, whom I would have supported in 2000 and in 2004, is no longer viable in my mind. To paraphrase Mark Twain, "Suppose you were a Republican candidate for President, and suppose you were a bumbling idiot... But wait, I repeat myself."
The point that some are missing is that public opinion is not necesarily synonymous with good opinion. The Nobeloriate Economist of the past year estimated that the Iraq war would cost the United States 2 trillion dollars before its end, not to mention mounds of disabled veterans and dead soldiers. "Personalization" of social security may not seem like a good idea to a baby boomer generation that has had to deal with their great-depression-surviving parents (who are collecting SS and probably the largest participating group in these gallup polls), but for a 24 year old like myself, who is not convinced SS will be in existence for my own retirement, seeing that tax deduction on my pay stub go towards something "real" would be a relief.
Lets have everyone pay for the war! Send all the people a bill for about 500 bucks a week to pay for the debt the congress and the big fat bush has made, and then we'll see who's booing. The people booing are the ones that think it's right to rape the planet and take away rights to women and etc. Oh the planet was made in 2000 yrs. Oh and I'm not a liberal so don't throw me that left side bull crap!
I, for one, intend to vote for "Bedsheet Ron Paul". (Every one of his campaign "signs" I have seen has been spray-painted on a bedsheet and hung from a freeway over-pass.) This tells me he is a fiscal conservative.
The boos at the Republican debate is not a reflection of the country. The republican voters and the party are out of step with the rest of the country on all issues. They will be singing the blues come next election.
Mike Huckabee was the clear winner of the debate last night, even though his air time was disgracefully minimized by the smug questioners at FOX who pandered to the big-money boys.  He is the only Republican candidate who can beat Hillary Clinton in the general election.  He should be heard, supported, nominated and elected.
Dan G(as in gasbag), go look in the mirror.
Ron Paul HA! Yet another Ross Perot. Go Ron! He will takes votes away from the repugs.
David James, tell me about what YOU'RE doing in Victoria Texas to fight Islamic extremism - other than bumping your gums!
The voice of the American people is clear:  RON PAUL WON THE POST-DEBATE PHONE POLL BY ALMOST 10 PERCENT.

If you would like Ron Paul to win, you must go to ronpaul2008. com and donate a little money.  As we saw last night, Dr. Paul does not have the media or special interests behind him, only the American people.

I am not a "pot-smoker" or a "kook."  I am a career Naval officer who has been politically neutral for my entire life, but this is about voting for America and our Constitution, which I took an oath to preserve!  I am now supporting Dr. Ron Paul with my wallet, and my heart.

Go Ron go, save America!
zhan-you're right.  It's progressives who want peace and believe in freedom and democracy.  Conservatives thrive on conflict, and with a bible in one hand and a sword in the other, go out looking for trouble while claiming self-righteousness.  They aren't all that different from the conservative al-queda and other conservative, radical, islamic fundamentalists who preach intollerance and hate.  Republicans would rather see the united states turned into just that...a republic...whereby power is in the hands of a few and any questioning of authority is deemed NOT ok.  Values?!?  Gimme a break.
Hey James, when Hillary's elected, is your head going to explode?  
For all the people whining about the democrats not ending the war, don't you people know how to count?  The Senate is split 49-49 w/ two independents and Darth Vader as the tie breaker.  They can't even get enough votes to overcome a filibuster, let alone veto.  The House is in the same shape.  The Democratic congress would LOVE to be able to force issues if it could.  ANY issues at this point.  But this president is so determined not to back down on ANY position, no matter how wrongheaded, unpopular, costly or futile, he's acting like he has a full mandate from the people instead of an approval rating below freezing.
He can afford to.  He's never going to be elected to so much as dogcatcher again and he knows it, so he doesn't have to care.  He just wants to put as much distance between himself and whatever is going to happen next as he can and the hell w/ the consequences to his party, his country or even his beloved troops.
I would like to remind everyone that when Bill Clinton left office, notwithstanding travelgate, monicagate, whitewater and every manufactured 'crisis' the republicans could throw at him, his approval rating was still at 60%.
What do you think GWB will be at by 1/20/09?  
The Republican Party should just kill-itself out of shame.  I'd like to see an on-line pledge to "never vote Republican again, in any election, any candidate, anywhere, anytime."   Sign me up.
Dan g. says,

"The leftwing dingbats and Paul groupies are the only ones who like him.  It’s kind of sad actually to think how many people lack common sense and an ability to think for themselves."

Dan - I love how people like you love to deal with facts and issues rather than just spouting rhetoric.

Exactly what do you disagree with on Dr. Paul's platform?

This thread says one thing, people are not sure what Dr. Paul's ideas are.  The nice thing about being a Dr. Paul supporter is that all of his positions are clearly spelled out and can be seen in his speeches on youtube.  

If you are a Republican and are writing negative things about Congressman Paul please explain.

Republicans (supposedly) have always been against:
1. Big Government
2. Taxes
3. Abortion
4. Foreign Intervention and Intangled Alliances

All of the candidates last night stated a fact, "Future entitlements such as Social Security and Medicaid will bankrupt this country."  Dr. Paul wants to FUND Social Security for people over 40 and allow people under 40 to not have to pay it and keep their money.  What is wrong with that?

Please America do your homework.  Congressman Paul has sensible solutions to our issues and he is more sincere than any of the other candidates on both sides.

The people of the 14th district in Texas have elected him 10 TIMES.  They don't agree with everything he does, but they know they can trust him.
You know what is really sad? It's that you leftists still can't even win an election when the pub candidates are such low caliber. The people see through your socialist agenda and are so afraid you will turn the US into a third world tin pot pit of dispair, we end up with candidates that lack the integrity to uphold the constitution. Now that 50% of the populace pay almost no taxes, you would think you democrats wouldn't have a problem.
Wow.. what a superbly biased report. Did the DNC write this one up for you guys?

Are you suggesting that every proposal brought up by the democrats has majority support? Give me a flipping break!
Ron Paul has the courage of conviction. Do you think any other candidate on either side have stuck to their guns for thirty years? Say yes to principle. Say yes to Dr. NO.
Let's face it; we can no longer afford this war, like it or not; face it, it's not ours and never was until we stuck our nose in!!  We need to direct our attention to two (2) places!! Extremists and America!!  Our country has so many major issues to fix and no money to fix them because of the money spent in Iraq!!  If we don't deal with some of these important issues soon and quit supporting the rest of the world (here and abroad), we may just collapse!!  There may be only ONE way to get our government moving, after all this administration isn't going to do ANYTHING unless it pats them on the back and the Congress can't get anything done because the GOP either won't vote with them on any issues or the President vetoes the issues that do get by.  TEA PARTY ANYONE!?!!!!!
The Republican's number one goal seems to be defeating Hillary.  Only person that could possibly beat Hillary is Ron Paul.  Why?  He is the only one that rallies Democrats, Republican, Libertarians, and Independents. He gets votes from the most diverse population.  He is the only one that can steal votes from Hillary or any other Democratic nominee.  Think about it.  The only chance of beating Hillary is with Ron Paul. Republicans have to decide what is worse "Ron Paul" or "Hillary Clinton".
Let's face it; we can no longer afford this war, like it or not; face it, it's not ours and never was until we stuck our nose in!!  We need to direct our attention to two (2) places!! Extremists and America!!  Our country has so many major issues to fix and no money to fix them because of the money spent in Iraq!!  If we don't deal with some of these important issues soon and quit supporting the rest of the world (here and abroad), we may just collapse!!  There may be only ONE way to get our government moving, after all this administration isn't going to do ANYTHING unless it pats them on the back and the Congress can't get anything done because the GOP either won't vote with them on any issues or the President vetoes the issues that do get by.  TEA PARTY ANYONE!?!!!!!
Let's face it; we can no longer afford this war, like it or not; face it, it's not ours and never was until we stuck our nose in!!  We need to direct our attention to two (2) places!! Extremists and America!!  Our country has so many major issues to fix and no money to fix them because of the money spent in Iraq!!  If we don't deal with some of these important issues soon and quit supporting the rest of the world (here and abroad), we may just collapse!!  There may be only ONE way to get our government moving, after all this administration isn't going to do ANYTHING unless it pats them on the back and the Congress can't get anything done because the GOP either won't vote with them on any issues or the President vetoes the issues that do get by.  TEA PARTY ANYONE!?!!!!!
By all means, Andy, raise the payout on SS, but it shoudd then be means tested.  If you're a retiring millionaire, I don't think you are going to be particularly hurt by paying tax on $95-$155,000 and NOTHING on the rest of your millions.  The difference probably won't even pay for the gas on your Gulfstream.
You know if you put $2000 a year into an IRA account starting when you were 16 and never put another dime in after you turned 26 you would have well well over a million dollars saved for retirement.  You don't have to make any investment decisions just buy the the indexes.  You can put money into SS from the time you start working until the day you retire and never ever come even remotely close to a million dollars in retirement funds.
I am curious to why so many democrats feel the need to chime in on a discussion of the Republican nominees.  Should we also consult Iran on who to pick as our generals in Iraq.  Democrats keep calling Iraq a Republican War when both parties nearly unanimously voted for it.  Republicans are just making sure we don't lose our courage and pull out; therefore, ensuring chaos and terror for the region.
I wish they would have given Ron Paul more time. I like his ideas.
If you democrats think that by electing Hillary, we'll immediately pull out of Iraq, you're fooling yourselves.

We're going to be there for a long, long time no matter who becomes president. Pulling out now will only make things worse and both sides know it. Republicans are just being more upfront about it, while the dems dance around the issue.
It was no bebate last night. It was more like Hillary bashing. It was akin to letting everyone know that their penisis are bigger than hers'. Well, DUH!!!! At least she thinks with her brains. And to think, these repugnikans want to be president. What a bunch of whiny 2008 LOSERS!!!!!!
Do the left-wingers, liberals and Dems in general, have ANY other argument based upon facts?  I am so sick and tired of the "victimization" of America.

First of all why is anybody tht disagrees with you buffons is a liberal. You want facts. How about you republicans creating the largest dficit of any administration when being handed a surplus. How about the trade deficit being in the same shape. How about the mortgage crisis that is happening now and when Bushes old man was president. How about the sagging infrastructure that isn't being addressed. How about almost all the generals invovled in the Iraq war coming back and stating we are creating more terrorism and hatred by staying these.
I am really convinced you republicans have zero between the ears when it comes to being able to think .I sincerely believe if you add up all your IQ's it does not equal a carrot.


SEND A COMMENT

PLEASE READ: All comments must be approved before appearing in the thread; time and space constraints prevent all comments from appearing. We will only approve comments that are directly related to the blog, use appropriate language and are not attacking the comments of others.

Message (please, no HTML tags. Web addresses will be hyperlinked):

TRACKBACKS

Trackbacks are links to weblogs that reference this post. Like comments, trackbacks do not appear until approved by us. The trackback URL for this post is: http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/trackback.aspx?PostID=423699

First Read e-mail alerts


Sign up for First Read alerts
The first place for key political news and analysis

Syndicate This Site

Add First Read to your news reader:
live.com xml
myyahoo msn
bloglines newsgator
google