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Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



Rangel unveils Dem tax proposal

Posted: Thursday, October 25, 2007 11:34 AM by Mark Murray
Filed Under:

From NBC's Mike Viqueira and Mark Murray
A leading House Democrat has unveiled a long-awaited tax reform package, including a "fix" for the Alternative Minimum Tax that would cost $800 billion over the next 10 years.

To pay for it, Ways and Means Chairman Charlie Rangel (D) proposes that married couples earning more than $200,000 pay a "replacement tax" of 4%, and 4.6% on income in excess of $500,000. Rangel says that the AMT is now affecting 23 million taxpayers.

Rangel would also increase the standard deduction and expand the number of lower-income people who are eligible for the Earned Income Tax Credit. He says that all total, 90 million Americans will get a tax cut if this legislation were to become law.

Rangel says that he will also pay for it by closing loopholes in existing laws. He would limit itemized deductions and personal exemptions for high income individuals, prevent hedge fund managers from using offshore tax havens to defer taxes on compensation, and several other measures.

Republicans are already blasting the proposal, accusing Rangel of "selling snake oil," and calling the 90 million figure "pure hokum." They see the 4% replacement tax as "a crushingly high" tax rate that will affect 10 million people. In fact, Romney just put out a statement criticizing the proposal -- and linking it to Hillary Clinton. "Today, Democrats in Washington, D.C. are unveiling a massive tax increase bill for the American people. Our nation cannot afford the Democrats and a Democrat President like Hillary Clinton who will sign tax increases into law."

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Comments

This just proves that the tax code is just too much...get rid of the enire darn thing and replace it with a national VAT [for those who don't know, that short hand for Value Added Tax] on all goods and services.

And it's politics as usual for Mitt to bash Hillary for something introduced in a body of Congress she's not part of.  Mitt...go back to your US Gov't high school class...Rangel is in the House, she's in the Senate.
No way the repukes will vote on that!  How can they keep the government so STABLE and out of debt with a tax change like that!! Our deficit is not as high as the repukes can muster, we just add in the WAR and VIOLA! We are DOOMED!!! Every one knows if you make $500,000 you can not pay TAXES!! (serious sarcasm.)
Why does MSNBC give any stage to this flip-flopping Massachusetts Mormon? It is clear that he is an elitist who think his sons driving a Winnebago in IA is equivalent to soldiers riding in a Humvee in Iraq.
Stick all that crap where the sun don't shine you want to do tax reform go to a "Straight Percentage Tax on all Individuals and Business no deductions and no exemptions".  Doing away with the IRS, Tax preparation and all the other Bull Sh-- would save the American people a substantial fortune.  If they were really serious about tax reform they would make an effort to simplify instead of complicate matters.
Here, lets do this if the Democrats have their way.  Each of us will take all our money, and just flush it down the toliet.  It will do just as much good for this country as it would if the Democrats had it.
Good work Rangel.  Keep taxes down on the middle class and restore some of the progressivity that has been removed over the last generation in the name of trickle down economics.  Clearly it isn't working, clearly it's been a contribution to the top-heavy accumulation of wealth.
Romeny lies again... and the gop falls for it or loves the lies.

right now if you make less than 105K (single))your taxes have gone up because of the bush and republicans... but if you make 135 or more your taxes have gone down.

we can't afford to have the GOP in charge, the run up the national debt like drunken awol members of the Texas National Guard...
and they give tax cuts to the wealthy
s.michaels:
Let me get this clear - you want to take ALL your money and flush it down the toilet instead of (maybe) paying 4% of extra taxes on income above $200,000: lets say you make 250,000, with 0 withholding assuming you are married filing jointly, you pay 78,000 in taxes (again that is assuming 0 withholding)- according to your interesting logic, you want to flush 172000 down the drain instead of paying $2000 - what a very GOP logic.
Great one democraps - take money from people who actually earn it and give to the slimy idiots that believe they're owed it.  Absolutely immoral.  P.S. To Philip in NY - Mit is saying Hilary Clinton-Marx would sign this garbage if she was president.
I'm a republican and I like Rangels AMT reform idea, Improvement to it would be; throw in a flat tax, fire the IRS and ALL congress including the president, raise Rangels salary to 3 million, and hire him as a dictator to run Washington. Outstanding!!!
s. michaels the repubs are flushing all AMERICAS $ AND BLOOD DOWN THE TOILET OF IRAQ.
The Republicans can tear down but they don't know how to build anything that works. Where is their proposal to keep the AMT from gouging the middle class? Where is their proposal to balance the budget and why haven't they done so for any of the past 6 years?  All talk and no action.  Why do they hate America?
How many of you have ever been employed by a poor person? This nation has fought wars against socialism and half of you want them running your lives! Higher taxes hurt ALL of us. I wish libtards would understand that.
I'd be willing to pay my share of those taxes. Sure I'll pay more, but my country has given me so much, that I think it's time to give something back. A true patriot loves to pay his taxes because taxes are the life blood of the American economy. The less you feed it the weaker it gets. Tax-cutters cannot be considered patriotic; only selfish. I say that if you are rich and aren't willing to pay your share in America, then you should be deported or in prison on charges of Treason for trying strangle the American economy. Many neo-cons try to relate their war-time spending to "the greatest generation" but when we were fighting World War II the government ran commercials that declared "Fight the Axis! pay your taxes! Taxes for tanks and bullets and battleships! Buy War Bonds!" We shouldn't force the soldiers and police officers and firemen that depend on our tax dollars to take a paycut so that we can enjoy writing off a hummer. America is better than that.
We do need tax reform, can this be where we can come together and agree that it is so convoluted that it only is good for people who have tax lawyers to cheat and cover up their income. What have the candidates to say that really is change, nothing so far. Lets e-mail them all and tell them to talk issues like this, maybe if enough of us do this they will get the message. A pox on all politicians who avoid our problems and the media who loves a good catfight and will not stick to the meat and potatos (potatoes?)of the economy. 3rd quater profits down for many companies shows a lack of confidence in the white house and congress.
Please save me from the AMT...
Income taxes are evil...do away with them...why would you want taxes levied on your income anyway, talk about a disincentive to produce...tax consumption to encourage savings and voila everyone will have personal charge of their tax bill...now thats fair
Taxes keep getting cut for the rich, and big companies, and the Republicans would like us to think that restoring some kind of sanity would be a tax increase.

Most of America, that hasn't been married to the talking points, can see through this.

The richest contribute much money to both parties to keep it that way.

It's just one side is slightly less Republican than the other....

Just a sign of things to come if the Socialist-Libs win in '08.  We will take money out of the hands of all people and just shift it to government.  

God Please Bless America and don't allow the Socialist Party (Democrat) win in 2008.  Wait a minute, I am not sure if I allowed to refer to God anymore in this country.
Oh Please..who would EVER trust a NY democrat to re write tax laws..NY is the highest taxed state in the nation...No state comes close to NY taxes AND DEBT.. And notice they NEVER say cut spending.. ESPECIALLY not a NY democrat...And what NY democrat has any right to use "fair" and "taxes" in the same sentence..NONE!!!!NY loses more jobs and population than any other state ..To bad its population that never includes thier tax and spend politicans though...
"taxes are the life blood of the American economy"

wow then we should all pay 80% income tax and really fire things up.
So the King needs more money, he goes to the noblemen and ask for taxes, the noblemen go to the lords and ask for more taxes the lords go the the clans and ask for more taxes and the clans go the the serfs and ask for more taxes. That is how trickle down economics works.
In modern times the Government ask for more taxes so they tax business and personal income. The business passes the cost of the tax down to the consumer. The citizen asks for a raise, which is passed down to the consumer. In the end it is the consumer who pays all taxes and we call that the Federal Income tax system.
So no manner how the tax is structured the consumers pays all taxes. The value added tax only makes sense if you equally tax all goods and services and remove all of the current taxes on income, goods and services. We already have a value added tax on many consumables such as gasoline.
Uh...imagine a Federal Gov't that is supposed to protect us from terrorists and hostile nations relying solely on tax revenues based on consumption...seems a bit scary unless someone can show me proof that it'll allow the gov't to function and perform its traditional duties, including protecting us.
What it is a reversal of trickle down economics...which Republicans loathe and love to call socialist. One reason why the GOP offers little for the middle class. It'd be nice to think that the "heavy" earners can always pay less in taxes...but where will the tax relief and reinvestment for the middle class come from?? Out of Bush's butt?? With rising gas prices and income gaps a tax increase on "high" earners is most likely inevitable but leave it to the GOP to scream bloody murder. That is the result of our current tax laws...by the way..i'm in favor of the Fair Tax.
Thank god we don't have a state income tax......
of course it is in the state constitution......

Hard to believe a man who has $2 million of taxpayer money used for a building named after him at NYU.
Dave Bell - yes, NY has high taxes, but they are mostly Property Taxes having nothing to do with the State Gov't. And to the extent the State had something to do with it, for the past 12 years we had a Republican Gov, and a Republican Controlled Senate.  So it's not a purely democrat problem.  Perhaps you should do your homework before you diss on NYS!  Oh, and our high property taxes are primarily ties to high school taxes to fund our superior schools [mostly on LI] and are among the top in the country. So it's probably money well spent [but still too high I agree].
Per the IRS Data on 2005 returns: The top 1% paid 39.4% of all taxes, while only comprising 21% of the total adjusted gross income.   The top 5% of taxpayers paid almost 60% of all taxes.  THE BOTTOM 50% PAID ONLY 3.1% OF THE TAX.  Instead of increasing taxes, we should focus on getting these people into the workforce and off entitlement programs.
mikeeg,abdn,wa: '...s. michaels the repubs are flushing all AMERICAS $ AND BLOOD DOWN THE TOILET OF IRAQ....'

Thank you, mikeeg !!
Why are we wasting so much money on this aggression ?

s. michaels, how do you want to pay for teh Iraq war ?
Do you want to pay for another war, with Iran ?



NO THANKS !!  
NO FLAT TAX !!
LET'S LET EVERYBODY PULL THEIR FAIR SHARE !!

Edwards/Obama '08
Rangel Sec. of Treasury !!
I found this amusing........


On November 9, 2006, Rangel, in announcing some of his plans as new chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, said he planned to push more funds into his home state of New York. He added to this, "Mississippi gets more than their fair share back in federal money, but who the hell wants to live in Mississippi?" Mississippi Rep. Chip Pickering demanded an apology and Rangel issued a statement declaring: "I certainly don't mean to offend anyone. I just love New York so much that I can't understand why everyone wouldn't want to live here."

From looking at the taxes in New York, I can understand why nobody wants to live in New York.

Bad enough they had to get someone from Illinois to run their state.
Its a shame we would never do it; but we should be getting rid of all income and property tax and go to pure sales tax; federal state and local combined in one. This would reduce the number of people the IRS would have to track and audit (only bussiness would need to report). Maybe then we could shrink the IRS budget and be more efficent. Everyone would pay taxes on what they buy no loop holes to wiggle out of.  
The war in Iraq which we all know was based on lies and political propoganda is costing the american taxpayer 200 million dollars a month. A war that was made up, had nothing to do with 9/11 and has cost thousands of american lives. The idiot republicans have no room to talk about waste and destruction. They redefined it in Iraq.
Great...4% increase for the top 2 tax brackets, in addition to the soon-to-be expiring Bush tax-cuts (an additional 4%).  That'll put the top 2 federal tax brackets at 41% and 44%.  They're already higher than France's top 2 tax brackets after their recent tax cuts. Just beautiful...should do wonders for the economy.  Our current tax code is a disaster. Just remember: 4400 words in the US Constitution, 732,000 words in the Holy Bible...and over 9,000,000 words in the US tax code!  And it's growing by the day.  We need a flat tax or the Fairtax, and let's eliminate these lobbyists and corrupt politicians.
I stand corrected ..the war in Iraq is costing the american taxpayer 200 million dollars A DAY not a month.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11880954/
PLEASE DON'T LET DEMOCRATS FIX THE TAXES. ALL THEY DO IS RAISE AND I WOULD NEVER TRUST THEM TO "FIX" IT KNOWING FULL WELL TAXES WILL ONLY GO UP FOR EVERYONE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY SUPPORT THEIR MEDICAL COVERAGE, HIGH SALARIES AND EXTRAVAGANT LIVING STYLE.
If you want to fix the tax problem, stop using it as a hidden source of welfare. Rangle wants to increase the child tax credit (earned income credit) that allows a tax return to some of those who never pay a cent of taxes.
I find it interesting now that their ox is getting gored that the Dems on this forum are wanting something done about AMT. We Republicans have been complaining for years that a fix/reform was needed for AMT. Glad you could join us in the fight. I am all for a VAT and unwind the social-management tax code.
$150K a year can barely afford a small house in a middle-class neighborhood within 1 hour of NYC!  How is this rich and when is it going to stop!  
TEC - Spring - TX
Thank you for being the only smart person i've seen when it comes to the whole tax machine.
That has to be the smartest thing i've heard anyone on here say.
What just amazes me about the "I don't want to pay taxes", "taxes are evil & should be killed" crowd, is that they just don't understand the true value that a sound tax strategy/policy allows them to enjoy their war mongering existence.

For example, without taxes, you have no Food and Drug Administration.  Meaning that some food companies can they can change the chemical formulas they use to  preserve the food you buy for your consumption, your family's consumption, your pet's consumption or whatever to be the cheapest possible to increase their margins on the sales of their products.  Whether or not it's good for your health or not is not their concern, only that they make a healthy profit.

And by the way, since we don't pay taxes, and there are only (for example) 2 whole chicken producers, they can charge you $500 for one chicken.  Not a fresh one mind you, that'll cost extra.  Outrageous huh?  They can collude and fix their prices at whatever they want, whether the market drives/supports that price or not.  See Oil prices at $90 a barrel, when the demand market for said oil would support a $60 per barrel cost.  Speculation alone is driving the current price levels.

My point is for my Republican brethren, that taxes serve more than one purpose.  They are used to regulate business, enforcement of the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC) for those that don't know.  Which is used to enforce the "rules" of commerce.  Without the rules being enforced, chaos wins.

So yes, A. Stone from Austin was correct that taxes are the lifeblood of the economy.  Without them, the economy would fall apart.
Pat in Huntington

Having lived on LI for 30+ years and educated three sons in both public and private schools on LI including the one that you currently reside, you really should ask for a rebate.  The education system is fine in many other states in the US including NC where I now live and watch the education my god children are getting at a significantly (25% of LI school) less tax base.  PS. The state tax, local sales tax and all other taxes are cheaper. The relationship between quality of education and tax assessment is BS.  
The Rangel tax proposal is fair, obviously. To the people who hijacked my Republican party in 1994, that makes it especially dangerous. Watch for a firestorm of response from the RNC message machine to try and distort the proposal as being a "tax increase" when, for many more people, it is the exact opposite. The only way the Democrats (and moderate Republicans who care about the future of the party) can save this proposal is to get the word out, over and over, that anyone who OPPOSES this proposal is opposing a middle class tax cut.
Joe Biden you are the reason that the people who REALLY WORK (the middle class) will make SURE the Democrats get back into office.  I resent being referred to as a slimy idiot.  Just remember that the people who you claim dont work as hard as you are the very ones that do ALL of the dirty jobs that allow you to drive around in your Hummer and send your kids to soccer & cheerleading.  You need us because you are too pompus and lazy to mow your own lawn or wash your own dishes.  Please move from your glass house before you throw stones.
Forget any and all tax changes.  They are all discriminatory and unfair anyway.  Either a flat tax or a value added tax or a combination of both.  No exemptions, no exclusions, no bull.  Let everyone pay for their share.  Those with highest incomes are shielded unbelievably, those at the lowest get EVERYTHING handed to them with no incentive to try a little, and those of us in the middle (lower, middle or upper middle class) bear the brunt of it all.  Let's go fair and simple and eliminate all the wasteful overspending on the current system.  How dang hard is this to understand????
New York property tax rates 07-08

 

Tax Rates

The annual Statement of Account that Finance mailed to homeowners June 2007 is based on the new tax rates.
The new property tax rates for the 2007/08 tax year are listed in the following table:

YEAR CLASS 1 CLASS 2 CLASS 3 CLASS 4
07/08 15.434% 11.928% 11.577% 10.059%



People who call for the VAT tax "like Eurpoe has"  are totally clueless.

If you at the history of every country in Europe that has the VAT tax, you will find that as the Country was instituting the VAT tax, they realized that the $s generated were not going to be able to offset the money needed to run the Country.  So they kept the Income Tax.  2 Tax systems without and no reform.

Teh IRS Code is complex, but it is complex on purpose.  In 1977 when they passed the new Capital Gains Tax, on the front page og the Wall Street Journal, they reported that Congress made the Capital Gains Tax calculation difficult on purpose to give the 2000 candidates Fodder to campaign on.

The problem is that each side governs by what is good for their Political Party, not what is good for the Country.  
$250 not $150 Gary. Look, this won't go foward without a debate. The GOP hands will surely be on any AMT bill that passes.
David B in San Antonio,
The intent is to divided the tax liability to those who can most afford it. After all the value of the incremental $1 to the wealthly is much less than it is to those who are poor or middle classed.  So the measurement you present here is a red herring.  21% of the AGI for the top 1% but 39% of the taxes doesn't equate to wealth.  AGI, after all, is adjusted gross income, or income after itemized deductions.  You want to really compare the tax burden to the ability to pay.  The top 1% of Americans own 34.3% of the accumulated wealth in America (according to the Federal Reserve's Survey of Consumer Finances).   The top 10% own over 70% of the accumulated weath in America and the bottom 40% of Americans own less than a half of a percent of the accumulated wealth in America. If you put that up against your IRS tax burden figures, the tax distribution seems pretty fair and equitable.

And getting people off entitlement programs into the workforce should absolutely be a priority, problem is the job they would qualify for don't pay them enough to be significant tax contributors.  And even if they were trained and highly skilled, there would not be enough jobs that pay at a high rate to make them high tax contributors.
The only fairtax system is a value added tax .It will do away with the AMT and force those people who are in the underground economy(cash only) to pay their fair share.http://www.fairtax.com
BY the way, the top 10% of wage earners pay 70% of all taxes(the highest % in the history of the IRS), while the lowest 50% of wage earners pay 3 % of all taxes.So Bush has not been as kind to high wage earners as the demagogues would let you believe.
All I can say is don't knock it until you try it or until you come up with a better plan.


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