The Hillary camp must be quaking in their boots if the only thing that they can come up with is "he promised not to say anything bad about us."  What a joke.  They realize that they don't represent the Democratic wing of the Democratic party and that's who they need to win the primary.  Hopefully, they're finally going to be called on their duplicity and lack of right to represent the Democrats.

Funny thing is that they don't have the Republicans either (who they need in the general election).  Now this will sound like Jimmy's conversations with Amy, in the 1980 debate with Ronnie but my daughter is 17 and not 11 (and is someone who I think will be the POTUS one day - on her own merits).  
Allison: Dad I'm worried about the election.
Dad: Me too. (as I'm shoving a piece of pizza down my yap.)  What's bothering you.
Allison: Well if Hillary wins the nomination, she won't win the election.
Dad: I agree but what's your take. (I start on the mild wings).
Allison:  Well, the Republicans don't like her or Bill and they will never vote for her.  And with her position on the war she'll lose the Democrats as well.
Dad: (after a slug of water, I gave up soda a while ago and I don't drink). You're right she's unelectable.  And even if she does win the general election she'll lose the Congress for us.
Allison: Well, I hope that Obama does well tomorrow night (this was last night's dinner brought to us by Domino's since my wife had an accounting test and my culinary skills are limited to breakfast items and stuff on the grill) or we'll be in trouble.
Dad: You've got that right, my sweet daughter.
.....Cut, print....Look, this is a true story.

Well, the truth is the Republicans do hate the Clintons as they see them as the epitome of tax and spend liberals (as erroneous as that pronouncement may be) and they see Hillary as the poster child for a liberal social agenda (which I happen to support).  In any case, she will bring those ants out of their hill like a lump of sugar and probably even more than when Karl had the anti-gay marriage amendment put on eleven state ballots in 2004.  The nomination of Hillary as the Democratic candidate for the presidency will be the gift that keeps on giving to the Republicans.

On the left, anti-war people like me, could never vote for Hillary because of her Bush-lite war position (be it sincere or a representation of the politics of expediency - both reasons equally repulsive to me). I know that I speak for many who will either sit out the election or vote for a third party with Hillary as the Democratic nominee.  Probably the latter is a better option because it might help us to retain control of the Congress.

In any case, I can only echo Allison's thoughts.  I sure hope that Obama does well tonight.  David, let go, cut the cord.
Obama '08

Bee – Please explain to me how some polls are valid and some are not.  All of the most recent Iowa polls show Hillary ahead.  And how about all the NH and national polls showing her with a commanding and growing lead?  Get a grip girl, – your hatred of Hillary has overtaken your ability to rationalize!

It should sadden the Obama and Edwards supporters that they are so far behind Hillary that they have no choice but to go negative.  Maybe they should find another way to jump start their failing campaigns then resorting to attacks and distortions.  

In the meantime, Hillary will rise above all the attacks, lies and distortions – just as she has done against the GOP for the last 15 years.

I have no questions for Hillary Clinton.
I know where she stands on every thing of interest to me.
All talk to the contrary, social security, Iran, Iraq etc, is meaningless and insignificant---except to those grasping candidates and their dazed followers who look at scary polls and conclude that their only chance is to attack the leader and hope for a change in the numbers, that a decline in one area will mean advance in another.
Nonsense.
The personalities and beliefs of all the candidates have been put on display; most of them have been found inadequate, but one, just one, stands out.

One thing Hillary supporters may not understand either is how caucuses work.  You can ultimately pick your second choice for your vote.  People who tend to support Obama and Edwards seem to have a preference for the other candidate as their second choice, not Clinton.  I can assure you that if I lived in Iowa and was caucusing and I supported Edwards, yet Obama was closer to beating Hillary in my precinct, I would be switching over to Obama.

Ah I think Obama started the ridiculous Bush lite argument....which ANYONE being lumped with George Bush in any way is a HUGE insult. So yea, Obama insulted her personally.

jerry......Hillary's your next Commander in Chief.
Get over it ya' inbred old fart.

Poor Hillary...being victimized by those bad men again.  What a crock!  HRC can dish it out but she sure can't take it.  Americans want to know where she really stands on issues, not her poll-tested soundbites.  Thus far she has evaded answering tough questions and instead she has resorted to copying themes from other candidates.

Bee:  Why are the U. of Iowa poll results the "true poll" numbers and the ARG results not?  Take a look at the average of the last 5 Iowa polls (realclearpolitics.com)--Sen. Clinton by 7+ %.  The Iowa poll you find so comforting is the outlier.

VL:  Obama attacked Sen. Clinton in the NYT on Sunday calling her a liar.  By the way, Sen. Obama was co-sponsoring a bill to name the Iranian Guard as a terrorist group a few months back.  So who's the real liar now? And contrary to your claim, Obama took no public position on the bill before it was passed.  It wasn't until nine hours later, after a Democratic debate, that he finally piped up.  Sen. Clinton, on the other hand, worked vigorously to have the original language changed to remove wording that--unlike the bill that was passed (have you read it?)--did arguably authorize military intervention.

So, you and Obama think we should not attack Iran (I agree) and we should not impose severe sanctions (I strongly disagree).  So what's your plan to keep Iran from getting nukes--sit around a campfire and sing Kumbaya and hope Ahmadinajed and his masters change their mind about acquiring nukes?

Other good news for Clinton: she beats GOP candidates in New York with 70% of the vote!!!! Link: http://www.campaigndiaries.com/2007/10/morning-polls-so-much-for-giulianis.html

This debate is not about politics of hope. Enough talking point. I notice bunch of Clinton bloggers talking about politics of hope...i guess Mark Penn just finished training you morons about changing the issues.

FYI: The real issue is simple, where is clinton's agenda regarding this issue highlighted.

Foreign Policy -- No agenda
Iraq -------------No agenda
Social Security---No agenda
Energy------------No agenda
Education---------No agenda
Ethic Reform -----No agenda
Lobbyst---------- Agenda
Rural Revitilization---- Lobbyst agenda

After reading most of the comments coming from Van and his entourage who don't even understand how to interpret polls number with margin of error. I have decided not to comment because they are as bad as Clinton.

My question is simple. Where does your candidate stand on these issues? If you can't tell me, then, you are not worth paying attentin to. You can winne all you want, agenda is how the POTUS is going to be elected. It is not based on name recognition.

Foreign Policy -- No agenda
Iraq -------------No agenda
Social Security---No agenda
Energy------------No agenda
Education---------No agenda
Ethic Reform -----No agenda
Lobbyst---------- Agenda
Rural Revitilization---- Lobbyst agenda

I hope someone brings up the question as to why none of the presidential candidates, and especially the New York representatives have not said anything about Governor Spitzer's intention to now give out three New York licenses. (One top tier - which can be used to cross the Mexican and Canadian border, the second tier which is just for citizens but cannot be used to cross the borders, and the third for ILLEGAL aliens!)  At the same time they are handing out these driver's licenses, they will also hand the person a voter registration application.  Only the driver's license is necessary as proof of citizenship!!  What a joke!  Governor Spitzer says that ILLEGAL aliens know that applying for voter registration is illegal if you are not a citizen and therefore, they won't apply.  Are you kidding me?  They already broke the law Governor!  They are here ILLEGALLY!!!   But no one is bringing this up!  I hope someone questions them on this!  Something needs to be done!  The majority of NEw Yorkers do NOT want this!

"CitizenJ I do not smoke, Obama does, and I am not your friend.  That would embarrass me!"

Experience/judgement (Sent Tuesday, October 30, 2007 12:47 PM)

Experience/judgement,

Obama DID smoke. And is that a disqualifier for President?

As to being friends, I can understand why you wouldn't want to be friends with someone who employs reason and competence. I doubt I would really fit in with your crowd.

And something tells me, judging by the quality of your posts, that there is little that would embarass you.

Tell me Hillary supporters, what incentive would I as a strong Democrat have to vote if it were Clinton vs. Giuliani?  They are the SAME person!  Both Republican Lite and both people who don't give a damn about uniting our country.  Hillary says she is all about change, but what exactly does she want to change.  NOTHING!  Fellow Democrats, let's give ourselves an option for real, positive change where we the people are once again in control of our country's destiny!

Obama or Edwards '08

You mean Bill Clinton right? He is not running for president, Hillary is. She does not possess the same charisma as her husband. He helped pass a number of bills under a Republican congress. Are there any bills you can think of that was co-sponsored by Hillary Clinton that passed in her 7 years as Senator?
If not what makes you think she can do it if she becomes President?  Tough question? Yes indeed but you need to think it about if you are thinking about voting for her.

Right on Jesse and the point that you made before, about horsetrading between Obama and Edward caucus attendees, is well taken.  My prediction is that good sense will prevail and one of them (and although I support Obama, I could go with either) will, through a united effort, hand Hillary a resounding defeat in Iowa.
Obama '08

Jesse, Burnsville, MN,

You don't have any incentive of voting for Hillary Clinton. I don't have any incentive of voting her either. She cannot be trusted on any issues.

Let use see what the talking head have to to offer regarding her stand on the issues.

The following is a roundtable of ideas of the GOP front runners and what they bring to the table:

Rudy brings his prostate and the remains of a 9-11 victim;
Mitt brings phony family values and his special religous underwear;
Thompson brings the latest DVD of Law & Order;
McCain brings some geritol.

Ah, yes, this is what the other side has to offer.

F STLouis says,

"Ah I think Obama started the ridiculous Bush lite argument....which ANYONE being lumped with George Bush in any way is a HUGE insult. So yea, Obama insulted her personally"

Oh please, he said that in response to her calling him "naive". That is a blatent disrespectful comment to make on anyone. "Naive"? I mean really.

So bee how much does the gop pay ya?

I think Obama is right to call her Bush-Chenney lyte. She get so scared to the extent that Bill Clinton was used to quench the fire.

I want the same to happen going forward. The clintons want to have it both way. Sorry, that ain't gonna happen. Obama must call her out on issues when she is wrong.

Crystal - And questioning someone's integrity is showing respect?  I mean really!

Pat in Huntington

I can't wait to after the 2008 elections when Hilary will be back representing you and ass kiss Van Reuter in New York.  See how much you love the carpetbagger then.  You and Hills can head down Route 110 to Lord and Taylor and go shopping together.  Looks like you have been taking those speed bumps in the mall parking lot a little too fast.

New Independent / 'I hope someone brings up the question as to why none of the presidential candidates, and especially the New York representatives have not said anything about Governor Spitzer's intention to now give out three New York licenses. (One top tier - which can be used to cross the Mexican and Canadian border, the second tier which is just for citizens but cannot be used to cross the borders, and the third for ILLEGAL aliens!)  At the same time they are handing out these driver's licenses, they will also hand the person a voter registration application.  Only the driver's license is necessary as proof of citizenship!!  What a joke!  Governor Spitzer says that ILLEGAL aliens know that applying for voter registration is illegal'

 if this is correct we should all be very concerned, the democratic party has been labeled as being pro illegal alien, hillary being the most outspoken supporter of an open border, a lot of people in this country think people should enter this country through legal channels, me being one of them.

the republicans want the illegal's here for slave labor, the dems apparently think they may vote for them or something, a candidate that forcefully takes a stance against people walking into our country illegally will find some americans who will vote for them.

I am so sick and tired of people wanting there to be a blood bath between Hillary and Obama.  It's ridiculous.  The truth is what a team these two would make.  Obama has his whole political career ahead of him.  He needs to run a check on his ego and realize he could learn a lot from the Clinton's, especially how to run a campaign.  As fellow democrats, we should welcome the thought of these two working together and having a democrat in office for the next 16 years.  If these two would play their cards right, we could very well embellish that dream.  

F STLouis says,

"Ah I think Obama started the ridiculous Bush lite argument....which ANYONE being lumped with George Bush in any way is a HUGE insult. So yea, Obama insulted her personally"

Remember in that speech Obama never mentioned her name. If he never mentioned her name then what other reason would she be insulted by it? Can you think of any?

http://abcnews.go.com/images/Politics/clinton_invitation.pdf

What is Hillary doing in Washington on her "Rural Americans for Hillary" tour? She is raising money from Monsanto(Agriculture lobbying firm)

andrea, washington dc,

I personally don't want Obama to run on Clinton's ticket because he will be corrupted by the Clintons. As far as i am concern, Clinton is not good for America.

We don't need a politician but a leader. I can tell you this Hillary Clinton is not a leader.

Would all of you, PLEASE, stop claiming that Hillary Clinton has not answered any questions on her stance on war, Iran, social security, etc....and CHECK THE FACTS! She has answered them, in quite a bit of detail, actually. Check her website, her interviews both in paper and video format. Do your HOMEWORK, stop making false claims, and educate yourselves for once.

Would all of you, PLEASE, stop claiming that Hillary Clinton has not answered any questions on her stance on war, Iran, social security, etc....and CHECK THE FACTS! She has answered them, in quite a bit of detail, actually. Check her website, her interviews both in paper and video format. Do your HOMEWORK, stop making false claims, and educate yourselves for once.

James,

Thanks for posting Hillary's agenda on rural america.

To Mitchell Feldman in Vestal NY;
You're absolutely full of crap.
First off, what makes you think that socially conservative Republicans who won't vote for Hillary...would vote for Obama instead? That's my first question to you because that notion is so laughable...it doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
Secondly, WHO said Hillary doesn't represent "The Democratic Wing" of The Democratic Party, and by the way, WHAT IS "The Democratic Wing" of The Democratic Party? I never heard of such a thing...Me thinks you know not of which you speak.
Third...yes, republiCANTs ARE supposed to hate the Clintons. Because they've been beaten by them every time out! If the political opposition LIKES your candidate, THAT'S when you know you're in trouble because it means they know they can beat you.
Oh, and Bill Clinton was elected TWICE w/o the republiCANT vote...so there goes your other theory.
If there is any gift that keeps on giving for republiCANTs its the divisive bickering, and Hillary bashing that Obama and his suporters have aimed at our party's leading candidate (rather selfishly, I might add)...all because he can't beat her in a debate.
Obama's flip flopping on international issues has certainly helped the G.O.P. as well, and so has his refusal to wear a flag on his lapel, and his disrespect to the American Flag while The National Anthem is playing.
I'm sorry Mitchell.....but Obama doesn't have the "gravitas" and would LOSE in the general election.
But then again...maybe that's exactly what you want to happen.

In defense of Obama, he is trying to delineate policy ideology (although he is running up hill with Iran...considering he co-sponsored almost the exact same language in March...). Edwards on the other hand is attacking Hillary's character and integrity. That is counterproductive (and, frankly, pathetic). He needs to stick to policy contrasts.  

Give me Clintons all the way baby, i love it, and America will continue to sink. Wow i thought that the leader of free world had more to offer than Clintons and Bushes.

Of course she will win, then what. NO health care, No good education, no ending to this war, more women to please the desire of Bill into White House. Oh I forgot more power to lobbyist.

Weak move by Clinton.  Certainly, she can take the heat of candidates differentiating themselves from her.  She better toughen up and start fighting back instead of whining!  Problem is, if she starts fighting back, she'll have to start talking about specific answers to the issues.  The "they're picking on me" skit is a smokescreen!

The problem as I see it, Andrea, is that Hillary does not represent my interests in the Democratic Party.  For that reason I could never support her as a presidential candidate.  You Hillary people just don't get it.  It all boils down to the fact that she voted for the war!  Not once, not twice but three times (in one form or another).  I just can't get my arms around that one.  In addition she does exhibit a lot of the political bullsh*t traits that we see in this Bush/Rove administration.  She could pick any running mate in the world and it would not help me to forget my objections to her.  I will never support her (and I have liked her in the past it's just that, in her quest for the presidency, she lost principle along the way) in a run for the presidency.  Also, I don't want another four or eight years of Bill - as the Polish say, ceza dojou tonye strava (Polish linguists, please forgive my phonetics] or, what is too much is not healthy.  

Obama will never concede to being her running mate because she represents everything that he is against in American politics.  In the end, I think the Democratic Party will realize that she represents everything that they are against in the American politics and they will reject her candidacy.  At least, I hope so.
Obama '08

Obama put himself in a box with his "Politics of Hope."  Now that he's losing, he's changing his tune and calling it "a debate."  

We all know he's now doing what he said he wouldn't do. It's all very simple.

VL:  Obama attacked Sen. Clinton in the NYT on Sunday calling her a liar.  By the way, Sen. Obama was co-sponsoring a bill to name the Iranian Guard as a terrorist group a few months back.  So who's the real liar now? And contrary to your claim, Obama took no public position on the bill before it was passed.  It wasn't until nine hours later, after a Democratic debate, that he finally piped up.  Sen. Clinton, on the other hand, worked vigorously to have the original language changed to remove wording that--unlike the bill that was passed (have you read it?)--did arguably authorize military intervention.

So, you and Obama think we should not attack Iran (I agree) and we should not impose severe sanctions (I strongly disagree).  So what's your plan to keep Iran from getting nukes--sit around a campfire and sing Kumbaya and hope Ahmadinajed and his masters change their mind about acquiring nukes?

http://thinkonthesethings.wordpress.com/2007/10/11/did-obama-skip-the-iran-vote/

Joe go to this website....

S.970 bill that Obama co-sponsored had this clause:

"Nothing in this Act shall be construed as authorizing the use of force or the use of the United States Armed Forces against Iran."

I am telling you, Clinton has so many issues, you can even see it from the YouTube thing. The boston globe today, writes:

"The clip, a preview of a longer film by one-time Clinton donor Peter Paul, has scored about 350,000 hits on YouTube during the past week, plus more than 1.4 million hits on Google Video, driving it to the top spot over the past two weeks"

when speaking about


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq8aopATYyw


People really don't like her and I am willing to bet that in a general election, people that do not typically vote, will take off work just to vote for anyone other than her!!

Would all of you, PLEASE, stop claiming that Hillary Clinton has not answered any questions on her stance on war, Iran, social security, etc....and CHECK THE FACTS! She has answered them, in quite a bit of detail, actually. Check her website, her interviews both in paper and video format. Do your HOMEWORK, stop making false claims, and educate yourselves for once.

All of the Democratic candidates oppose privatizing social security? Obama wants to raise taxes on those that make over $97000 and Edwards to raise taxes for those between $97,000 to $250,000. What is Hillary Clinton's plans along those lines?

Senator Clinton mentioned one of the earlier debates, you remember when she answered that she will not talk to the leaders of Iran, Korea, or Chavez during her first year in office because she did not want to be used for propaganda purposes. Remember? Obama answered that he would and mentioned JFK that "You should not negotiate out of fear but never fear to negotiate. Then next day when asked about Obama's response, Hillary Clinton said that she found it "naive and frankly very irresponsible". Remember?
Of course we know now from a recent interview that she is willing now negotiate with the leader of Iran. Was she flip flopping or cooking grits?

Obama,Clinton, and Edwards mentioned that they could not guarantee to ALL TROOPS out Iraq by 2013. Obama did mention that he promised to have ALL COMBAT TROOPS out of Iraq by 2013. What's the difference you might ask?  If you are not in combat, then what is reason for war?  If we have troops around the world, does that mean they are at war?

If you are a Clinton supporter, do you really believe in your heart that Hillary Clinton will the American people with the best of her ability despite her campaign being financed by lobbyists and calling them "people just like you"?

Blah, blah...the repubs hate the Clintons, so what! Are we going to attack Bill because of a romp with an intern? Tell me how that affected his ability to run this country? Were we in trillions of dollars of debt and war? NO!!! Let's lose the personal attack on character, maybe Hill doesn't come across as the warmest person but she smart, experienced and certainly has the ability to stick it out through the bad times publicly and keep her composure unlike the retard who represents us now. Thanks to him, the whole world hates us!

Bee:

Wake up, sweetie.  They are ALL politicians, even the ones who do their best to hide it.  

I just hope and pray that Edwards has a strong showing tonight. He is the best candidate for all Americans not just Democrats. I don't understand why he is not doing better in the polls. Obviously people aren't paying attention. A vote for Hillary is a vote against the American people.

Thank you, VL!

See? Someone doing their RESEARCH!

VL, You must be referring to the Iran Sanctions Act sponsored by Barack Obama in March of this year. Both Obama and Clinton agree that the Iran National Guard is a terrorist organization so that is not the issue. The issue is the language involved in the Kyl-Leiberman Amendment.

J Merle Stanley: Got you going, didn't I big boy?
I'll try to answer your incredibly unsophisticated reply, point by point.
1) Obama isn't trying to position himself in the center for the general election.  Hillary is.  That is evidenced by her stance on the war and her cozying up to corporate interests and her refusal to comment on remedies for SS.  What I'm saying is that positioning to the center is a lost cause since even moderate Republicans will never vote for her because of the reasons said in my last post (not that I disagree with her on these issues i.e. social policies; although her failure to face reality on SS and her husband's support of the 'defense of marriage act' does take away some of this legitimacy).
2) Hillary's support for the war absolutely disqualifies her from any support from the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party (a term coined by Howard Dean when he ran in the 2003-2004 Democratic primary).
3) Yes the Republicans are supposed to hate the Clintons so why do the Clintons constantly triangulate to the center.  And if the Repubs. hate her more than any other Democratic candidate, won't they turn out in greater numbers to vote against her (as opposed to staying home because none of the Republican candidates excite them)?
4) What you call divisive bickering, I call healthy debate.  And if you think the the anti-Hillary contingent is going to sit by and watch a Republican in Democratic garb take the nomination as an entitlement because her husband was once president, then maybe you should join the Republican party because that's more their style.
5) Obama has never 'flipped flopped' on his position on the war.  He and Kucinich were always against this war.  In fact Hillary has never flip flopped either, she has been consistantly for it.
6) There you go again.  Wearing a flag lapel to prove one's patriotism; and to which party do you belong?
7) Gravitas?  I guess the poor judgment exhibited by voting for war resolutions (in one form or another) not once, not twice but three times tends to eliminate gravitas from Hillary's resume.

Methinks my daughter Allison could teach you a thing or two about politics but I don't think that she would waste her time.  BTW thanks for saying that I'm full of crap.  I realize that because I don't agree with any of the bullsh*t which you espouse that I am but a worthless piece of dung.  How Republican of you.
Obama 'O8

I would say to everyone that does not like Hillary...and that includes Chris Matthews, to let the process go forward. It is still too early to call this race.  It was only a mere six months ago that I could not stand Hillary either.  I wanted Al Gore, but....I feel that Hillary will run a much better General Election Campaign than Al Gore ever could.  If the Democrats have not learned from the mistakes they made in 2000 and 2004, than they do not deserve to win.

God forbids if someone says something about her experience?  It’s an attack….  This is nothing but Hillary Clinton playing Bush politics… I am personal fan of hers who is slowly losing respect for her…Barack, Edwards, Biden, and  Dodds do not allow the Clinton campaign/machine to manipulate you into playing their game. You stay on topic and don’t lose focus… ..And ask the hard questions....She should not be immune from accountability.

This is another tactic the Bush Administration uses when things are going wrong in the war… The Bush Administration says we are not supporting our soldiers if we question the messenger.

If Hillary is questioned then it is a personal attack… Don’t allow her campaign to change the subject… It’s about Americans; and Americans are allowed to ask questions about things we don’t know and things we aren’t comfortable with….  They say she has experience, and what is that and has her experience brought about success if so please explain.  

Picking a president should not be like taking a test you haven’t study for…. You pick the only answer you are familiar with because you never bother about studying the other answers that were available to you..,

Choosing a president is like an algebra problem, you make one wrong choice and the whole problem is wrong i.e. GEORGE W. BRUSH.

Leslie, Lawrenceburg, Indiana,

We know that for sure. Edward is going to be the VP to Obama.

Obama/Edward 2008

Obama is weak and Edwards a phony- neither of which could ever win the general election. They are desperate losers who will eventually just have to accept their fate.

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