Some VERY Early Thoughts On A VERY Contentious Debate

Posted: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 12:00 PM by Chuck Todd

From NBC's Chuck Todd
For those looking for a contentious debate, they got their wish. This was easily the fight of the year when it comes to the Democrats. Now, who will win the post-debate spin war?

The Clinton camp has an interesting challenge in the spin room tonight. Both the Edwards and Obama camps are convinced that Clinton was off her game tonight. Was she? Eye of the beholder on this; At times, she seemed on her game but she did "let 'em see her sweat" at other times. Obviously, Edwards and Obama have the same goal tonight, make it seem as if Clinton "lost" this debate. Well, it's not clear who won it if she somehow lost it. I'm not convinced anyone has won, but it does appear that both Obama and Edwards have accomplished what THEY wanted to do tonight and Clinton's camp probably is glad that neither Obama nor Edwards outshined the other. Her best asset right now is the fact this is still a 3-way race.

As for the rest of the field, Biden, once again, had the one-liner of the night re: Giuliani. If Biden wasn't known as a gaffe machine, he'd be a bigger player in this race, I'm convinced of it. I know that sounds like a back-handed compliment but it's the burden of being Biden.

Dodd had, perhaps, his best debate of the cycle. The ending back-n-forth with Clinton on drivers' licenses for illegal immigrants was probably one of his best moments to date. He also got to talk issues he's made key to his campaign, like global warming. He still talks WAY too much about legislation he sponsored rather than talking about solutions he's proposing. The public has such a low approval rating for Congress than I'm guessing they tune out. Richardson did well on a few questions but it's interesting that Biden singled him out tonight which tells us someone is truly playing for that close4th place in Iowa.

Speaking of having better nights, how 'bout 'ol Dennis Kucinich. He did a great job answering the UFO question and the guy is a machine when it comes to staying on message.

More in the morning and later tonight on cable.

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Comments

Yes it's another "win" for hillary the best candidate. Just lookie here ..hillaryclinton.com

Mary Brown, Tampa, Fl. (Sent Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:08 PM)

Chuck,

Get on board of the Biden bandwagon. They will call you a genius when he defeats Rudy.

Elizabeth Sullivan, San Diego, CA (Sent Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:09 PM)

From where I sat, I'd say Obama didn't shoot himself in the foot but definitely didn't shine. He still seems uncomfortable on TV and in this setting.

Edwards, and yes I'm biased here, never seemed thrown off or at a loss. He continues to articulate his own positions well and is helping voters see the very real differences between himself and Clinton.

Edrie, Arlington, VA (Sent Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:11 PM)

Hillary was slightly off course this evening, but overall was steadfast when responding to Obama & Edwards while they attacked her for her double sided response. This debate will leave a lasting immpression-for sure/UFO's???

Heidy Ayers, Park Hills MO (Sent Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:12 PM)

I will be sendng out a news release about tonight's debate. Who do I need to send this to? I have no contact for MSNBC. Please let me know by email. Thanks.

Asher Heimermann, Sheboygan, Wisconsin (Sent Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:14 PM)

The only ufo I say was George Bush. hillaryclinton.com

Jessica Adams, Phoenix,Az. (Sent Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:14 PM)

I am very surprised Hillary Clinton is leading in early polls for president when she flip flopped on issues, dodged questions, and did not give a direct answer to questions. This debate should and maybe will hurt her numbers in the polls because it was a joke.

Calvin Thogmartin, Avon Lake, Ohio (Sent Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:14 PM)

Calvin Thogmartin, Avon Lake, Ohio (Sent Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:15 PM)

Hillary "once again" ,proved that she is ready to lead from day one. hillaryclinton.com

Susan Tressel, Pittsburg, Pa. (Sent Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:16 PM)

Bill Richardson said that there were people on the stage acting holier than thou. Who's making personal remarks now?

Jen, Houston, TX (Sent Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:18 PM)

Wow. Sen. Clinton had two answers in as many minutes on the NY drivers licenses to illegal aliens issue.

Adam Columbus OH (Sent Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:19 PM)

Chris Dodd, was by far the superior person on the stage tonight. I think he's the 1st one to begin the so-called attack on hillary with all her Doubletalk. O yeah, did I not predict in an earlier thread today, that Tim russert would Not forget? Can you say " HAMMERTIME"

Rick,ky (Sent Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:19 PM)

Early on Obama sputtered and muttered and seemed lost, Clinton seemed sharp. Edwards preened like a school girl. As it got late it got jumbled with silly questions about UFO'd.

Clinton again looked like the Commander-In-Chief.

Dickie Flatts, Charlotte, NC (Sent Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:26 PM)

Clinton took a lot of heat from the males in this primary race. We're starting see desperation from Obama and Edwards. I think two people benefited from this barage of attacks. Hillary Clinton for showing she can take the heat and offer reasonable answers and Bill Richardson for standing up to Obama and Edwards and their use of personal attacks.

Ryan (Sent Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:26 PM)

U won't mention this on MSNBC but was russert behind the right podium? Instead of being a neutral bystander, he injects himself into the debate sort of like an umpire in game 4 of the world series giving the rockies 5 outs per inning in an effort to even up the series w the red sox.

john doe (Sent Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:26 PM)

I couldn't see who raised their hand when the question was asked about decriminalizing Marijuana. Does anyone know who agreed and who didn't?

Heartlight, Makawao, HI (Sent Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:27 PM)

Interesting that no one mentioned Dodd's comment that education is the biggest problem in the country. It seems to be the bottom of news media's concerns but it is at the top of mine and a lot of other people I know. Bryan put the subject in one of the speed rounds and you'll note that every candidate went way over the 30 second limit, probably because no one ever asks them about it. Teaching children to think will make this a much more productive and moral country.

Polly Phillips, Evergreen CO (Sent Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:28 PM)

Clear Winner - Honesty , Intergity and Leadership - John Edwards

Marc Ledford Mooresboro North Carolina (Sent Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:30 PM)

This debate seemed to be a setup to attack Hillary. I love MSNBC, and watch it more than any other station. I watch Hardball, Count Down with Keith Oberman, and Meet the Press faithfully. But tonight was such a disappointment. MSNBC baited Barack and Edwards to attack Hillary. The questions asked were negative towards her. More focus was placed on her than on the current administration, than issues affecting our children, and more than this ugly war.
She has the best chance of winning. The polls show this. I fear that the attacks on her are going to hurt the Democratic Party in the long run. This was the wrong type of debate for the Democrats, and MSNBC helped to create this ugly discourse. Any of the Democratic candidates would be better than the Republicans. We can't win by destroying our best candidates. Hillary did a great job holding up under the attack. I am very proud of her, and I continue to support her.

Pam Wright, W. Bloomfield, Michigan (Sent Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:31 PM)

This is indeed the most Clinton has ever been challenged. Today's ARG polls have her leading in IA, NH and SC ( http://www.campaigndiaries.com/2007/10/arg-polls-early-states-romney-and.html ), so she is at the height of it all... Let's see what happens in the coming days.

Daniel, NY (Sent Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:32 PM)

Aside from the candidates, does anybody else think the "gotcha" games are a waste of time? And what is the point of a lightning round of 30 seconds? I thought the handling of the debate by msnbc was just "let's make a sound byte". Its kind of disgusting.

Catherine Peery, Pescadero, CA (Sent Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:32 PM)

ohhh Churk your hillary Clinton friend won again as i am waiting for you to spin it.

Tibwa (Sent Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:37 PM)

Finally, Hillary's unprincipled nature has been revealed. Everyone is making fun of her confused answer on driver's licenses for undocumented workers but what was more significant, for me, was how she tried to make her vote for Lieberman/Kyl, a vote for diplomacy. That was the height of her ingenuous voting record. Of course her fiscal responsibility answer, for what ails SS is like taking a patient in cardiac arrest to the school nurse (no offense meant to school nurses everywhere, but you know that you're not even allowed to dispense tylenol) and this is yet another example of her evasiveness. Also disturbing, is her refusal to open the archives on her White House years (communications with the president on the Universal Health Care fiasco). As Obama said, this is evidence of the same type of secrecy that is so like the Bush administration. She couldn't refute Edwards claims that she has taken more lobbyist money than any candidate of either party.

The race is wide open and I look forward to future debates so that we can learn more about the real nature of all of these candidates.

Mitchell Feldman, Vestal, NY (Sent Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:39 PM)

Finally, Hillary deconstructed.. It takes Tim Russert to do that job. He did a fantastic job and I hope he does more of these. Obama was forceful and well on his feet. He is a real ball player and can jab well. Edwards did a fine job but I think a ticket of Obama/ Edwards is awesome.

Paul, Oh (Sent Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:43 PM)

Ok I believe we have a winner and it is not msnbc it is Hillary Clinton !!!!You guys really need to look at your so called political team and then look at the coomments of regular voters and the polls and get off your high horses!! Hillary will win and hopefully will be as nice to you as your team has been to her!!! Go Hillary

Michelle Reese (Sent Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:43 PM)

Obama, Edwards, Dodd, and Biden were relentless in their subtle but pointed attacks on Hilary. It is a strategy that I believe may pay off huge dividends in the long run as I anticipate it would cause Hilary Clinton to get down from her pedestal, open up and engage her opponents and perhaps in the process overeacting.

I think Obama was effective in turning Clinton's experience argument against her. Indeed, he correctly pointed out that, in refusing to release her records, she is selling a pig in a bag and is not turning the page from the Bush-Cheney secretive presidency. Bravo!

Clinton's challenge in the future is to get back in primary campaign mode by avoiding to appear as someone "hard to pintpoint" as she may soon be accused of indecisiveness or flip flopping.

Obama should stay on course with his assertiveness and willingness to challenge Hilary on issues and let Edwards be his wingman or attack dog against Hilary.

Manu (Sent Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:45 PM)

Senator Clinton gave a perfectly good answer to the question about licensing illegal aliens. She acknowledged the governor's dilemma, respected his attempt to deal with it in what is probably the only way he can, and she placed responsibility for the problem squarely where it belongs, that is, at the federal level. It was a thoughtful answer that showed broad insight into a major federal government failure, pointing out that the real solutions are not at the state, but at the federal level. A simple "yes or no" is by no means always the most reasonable response to a question. Yet, one of the immediate statements made by journalists following the debate was that she didn't answer the question. I thought journalists were only supposed to make factual statements!

Jane Lloyd (Sent Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:45 PM)

Chuck Dodd doesn't have a feel for how us average Americans think. He says Biden is a "gaffe machine," but that it precisely what will endear him to the voters, 99% of whom aren't part of the D.C. punditry class. People like those who have wit and personality.

Kelly Downers Grove, IL (Sent Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:46 PM)

Here goes Chuckie again, declairing His Hillary the winner of the debate when the fact is she avoided answers and sounded very re-hearsed.
Why does Chuckie Todd sound off for Hillary in a constant, I thought you were supposed to be MSNBC'S
political director, not Hillary's campaign manager ?
You must be getting paid for both jobs, although it does seem your spending more time leading cheers for Slick Willy and Hillary than doing honest over all news reporting !!!

Kern Collins/ Wagoner, Oklahoma (Sent Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:48 PM)

General statement about the debate: you should never have Tim Russert (Pigboy) or Chris Matthews (Tweety) ask questions at a debate. Pigboy's insistence on asking about Iranian nukes past the point of Obama's statement that they all agree about it was offensive to viewers. He (Pigboy) should be quarantined. (You know what that means, these days)

weezimp (Sent Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:49 PM)

As for Kucinich, one down, five to go. For that matter Gov. Richardson's answer to Chris Matthews question post debate question may make it two down. We'll have to see.

Nicolas Kay (Sent Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:50 PM)

Obama won!!!
Initially, I had some doubts. But, he won over me.
Go Obama.

Jim, Santa Clara, CA (Sent Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:57 PM)

With Clinton holding a huge lead among Democrats in national opinion polls ahead of the November 2008 election, rivals Barack Obama, John Edwards, Chris Dodd, Bill Richardson and Joseph Biden all took turns aiming shots at the New York senator in hopes of bringing her back to the pack.

Who do you think won the Philadelphia NBC - MSNBC News Democratic Presidential Debate?
----> http://www.youpolls.com/details.asp?pid=842
.

PollM, Dallas TX (Sent Wednesday, October 31, 2007 12:12 AM)

DID anyone notice that after Obama attached Hillary on side stepping the issue on driver license to illegal immegrants that he GAVE THE SAME EXACT ANSWER..almost word for word. So if she lost tonight who exactly won??? If anyone was the most compelling it was Biden.

Alise, New York City, NY (Sent Wednesday, October 31, 2007 12:31 AM)

I'm still trying to figure out this front-runner thing...

HIllary is the front runner because the "media" says so through the polls that they conduct. But polls are only as good as the subset of people you ask.

On the other hand, Obama is the front runner because he has raised the most primary money AND has the most donors AND has even won a good number of opinion polls conducted after the debates, including tonight's debate. So, if real citizens are voting with their dollars and cents, then shouldn't their votes as donors be looked at as more important???

So who are we gonna believe, the media or our own neighbors??

I know Hillary has the most money, but some of that she already had before she declared she was running for office AND some of her money is also for the GENERAL election. But as we all know, you cant run in the general election until you've won the primary.

I tried to give Hillary the benefit of the doubt with her stances on different issues, but instead I am seeing more Doubts than Benefits in supporting her.

I think I am going with Obama after tonight. Hillary is flip-flopping too much, I can't gauge her true character based on her conflicting responses to most issues. And I don't see ANYONE raising any questions concerning Obama's character........

Jon, West Orange, NJ (Sent Wednesday, October 31, 2007 1:11 AM)

Once again I saw nothing to convert me to the democratic party. Hillary avoided any specifics, Obama stumbled around, Edwards had no substance.Biden had the clearest answer about Iran with his comments about the risk to Pakistan's government falling & their nuclear arsenal. Dodd bashed Bush well but failed to articulate his position well.As for Kucinich he gives straight answers and doesn't avoid the questions even if it is about UFOs! Although I don't agree with his views I think he tells the truth. A rare thing these days.

Guy Lightfoot, Waldo, Ar (Sent Wednesday, October 31, 2007 1:19 AM)

Clinton was awfull!!! She talks and talks and says nothing... Obama, Edwards, Biden or Dodd left her in the dust, she could not handle questions, she is over-rehearsed like a robot. This was the first debate I watched consistently and how can that woman be winning in polls is a mystery! She absolutely does not have what it takes, we will loose big time if she is nominated!

Maria, Houston (Sent Wednesday, October 31, 2007 1:32 AM)

Too bad SOMEBODY decided Mike Gravel's opinion didn't need to be heard in this one. I'm looking at you Chris Todd and GE, one of the largest defense contractors and owner of NBC.

Dan Corcoran (Sent Wednesday, October 31, 2007 1:57 AM)

Obama did exactly what he said he would.

He confronted Hillary, but it was not malicious or too negative.

Watch for the HIllary machine to spin and contort her opponents words again. Especially that her opponents supposedly "abandoned the politics of hope" and are "going negative" by trying to debate the issue. The Clinton camp apparently thinks that "the politics of hope" means that no one can direct any dialogue to her.

Good to actually see a few of them "debate" tonight.

Hillary will go down in flames if she is ever in a 1 on 1 debate- with ANYONE. She looks worse and worse trying to play both sides of every issue.

jds, slc (Sent Wednesday, October 31, 2007 2:20 AM)

Obama wins. He brought forth the issues that matter in an intelligent, transparent, and diplomatic manner. This left Hillary visibly distressed tonight. She needs to learn to take the criticisms of the better candidate, the one who WILL MAKE THE CHANGES THIS COUNTRY NEEDS AND WILL RETURN THE POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!!

Bridgette, Washington, DC (Sent Wednesday, October 31, 2007 3:32 AM)

FUTILITY + IRONY = FUTIRONY - AN EXAMPLE: The profoundly despondent conservatives won't even get out of their reclino-loungers to go to the polls for ANY of the pseudo-republicans on THEIR ballot - but they'll hook-up a sled-dog team in sub-zero temperatures to race across a frozen tundra to vote AGAINST Hillary - the ONLY crypto-republican conservative pro-corporate war-hawks on OUR ballot.

ByeGeorge.Org (Sent Wednesday, October 31, 2007 8:36 AM)

An example of how media pundits are out of touch with the voters. The MSNBC debate viewer vote had Obama on top, as did the Drexel student Open Vote system. Are viewers less intelligent than the media talking heads. Interesting how those votes which included thousands of voters are not advertised while the questionable telephone polls with tiny sample sizes continue to be quoted. Expect Obama-Edwards to give Hillary and the pundits a wake up call in Iowa

Cano, New York (Sent Wednesday, October 31, 2007 9:27 AM)

" . . they'll hook-up a sled-dog team in sub-zero temperatures to race across a frozen tundra to vote AGAINST Hillary"

ByeGeorge, you're right, old bean. I have never voted in my life (I'm 40) but have now registered because I know Hillary will be the Dem nominee and consider it my civic duty to vote against her. I would rather have Attila the Hun as my next president than Ms. Rodham, er Ms. Rodham Clinton, er Mrs. Clinton, er Hillary.

Samuel Cameron (Sent Wednesday, October 31, 2007 9:34 AM)

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