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First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



Philly debate fallout

Posted: Thursday, November 01, 2007 9:16 AM by Domenico Montanaro

The Los Angeles Times writes, “After searching for ways to rattle Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton and stem her momentum in the Democratic presidential race, her chief rivals believe they have found an opening: what they cast as her evasiveness on several key issues... On at least five issues raised in the debate, Clinton replied in ways that left it unclear what she meant or what action she might take. That practice has worked for her in the past, permitting her to avoid positions that might antagonize voters, particularly the less partisan ones important to victory in the general election. But the limitations and potential perils of her approach were driven home at the debate in Philadelphia."

Here’s the AP’s Fouhy: It could be a long two months for Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton if she continues to sidestep questions on big issues… [B]y avoiding questions on important issues -- from Social Security overhaul to driver's licenses for illegal immigrants -- Clinton risks playing into a narrative her rivals are eager to establish: that she is slippery, evasive and overly political.”

The Washington Post's Kornblut and Balz add: "Clinton strategists grudgingly acknowledged that the performance in Tuesday's debate in Philadelphia was not her finest and they sought to contain the fallout. They worked to clarify her muddled response to a question about whether she supports giving driver's licenses to illegal immigrants -- she backs it, they said  -- and quickly produced a video, titled ‘The Politics of Pile-On,’ splicing together in rapid-fire fashion her rivals' attacks from the event."

The Wall Street Journal editorial page jumps on what it sees as the return of "Clintonesque" and writes under the header: Hilliam Clinton.

The New York Times looks at the power of the immigration issue here: "Like the debate over Iraq, the exchanges over granting licenses to illegal immigrants underscored the tensions for Mrs. Clinton as she seeks to court various interest groups who are the building blocks of winning the Democratic nomination. She has recently intensified her efforts to win the caucuses in Iowa, where an influx of illegal immigrants has raised concerns among many of the state’s long-term residents. But she must also court Hispanic voters who are expected to wield greater clout this election season through early primaries in New York and California."

“[A] closer look reveals one thing Clinton has been quite explicit about -- that as she campaigns, she is being careful to preserve her options as president if she goes on to win,” the Boston Globe writes in a front-page story on the candidate. “While her speeches, debate performances, and policy prescriptions often feature hedging, Clinton has been startlingly straightforward about her refusal to be pinned down.”

The Globe, in fact, outlines her stances on various major issues in which she “has declined to make specific promises.”

The Washington Post fact-checks Clinton’s answer on the Clinton Library records, as well as the GOP attacks on her over the issue. “Republicans lack credibility when they criticize the Clintons for dragging their feet on the release of presidential records. The 2001 Bush executive order reversed many of the gains made during the Clinton years on access to government archives and release of secret information. On the other hand, Hillary Clinton should not pretend she is an entirely innocent bystander. It is clear that former presidents have considerable say in deciding which of their records get released, and that influence is increasing all the time.”

The Biden-versus-Giuliani sidebar from the Philly debate is still percolating. "It was a rare case of a candidate who is leading in national opinion polls firing back at a candidate who is trailing far behind. Many campaigns are reluctant to do such a thing, for fear that it would simply serve to elevate the lesser-known candidate. But Mr. Biden may have touched a nerve by questioning the crime-fighting credentials of Mr. Giuliani, a former New York City mayor.”

More: “The contretemps was notable for two more things. Mr. Biden was effectively taking a page from the Giuliani playbook by training his fire on one of the other party’s leading candidates. Mr. Giuliani usually takes aim at Mrs. Clinton; Mr. Biden singled out Mr. Giuliani. And in its response, the Giuliani campaign took a page from the Clinton campaign, which wears its attacks from Republicans as a badge of honor. ‘It is increasingly apparent,’ Ms. Levinson said in the statement, that  ‘Rudy is the one the Democrats are most worried about running against in the general election.’

The Biden campaign fired back at Rudy’s camp with this statement last night: “Rudy Giuliani seems to be increasingly worried that Joe Biden is questioning his lack of leadership and his use of 9/11 for his own political purposes,” said campaign manager Luis Navarro. “This criticism is grounded in reality: there are numerous examples of Mr. Giuliani using 9/11 as a substitute for real experience and real answers to important topics. In the spirit of Halloween, Rudy, if the dress fits, wear it.”

And the Boston Globe has these post-debate questions. “Is it the beginning of the end for Dennis Kucinich?” In Iowa, “Will Bill Richardson benefit from being the nice guy?” And “Can Joe Biden or Chris Dodd get a bounce?”

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Comments

If the HRC campaign survives this "evasiveness" problem she should be extremely strong in the main event.  This along with tired, phony scandals from the '90s are what has been circulating in conservative circles up to this point.  Better to deal with it in the comparatively friendly confines of the primary campaign.  If she can put this behind her now the right-wing smear machine will be pretty well out of bullets for next fall.
While the media desperately tries to create a horserace worth covering, and the HillaryHaters do what they always do, something important is being lost in the shuffle. Whoever the democrats run in the general election (I think it's Clinton) had better be battle-tested and capable of withstanding the full arsenal of the republicans when the time comes.

The stuff that goes on between democrats in this phase of the campaign will be like, "Patty-cake", compared to the onslaught that will occur between the conventions and election day 2008, so if she withers beneath the current crop, she'll stand no chance against the republican slime machine.

Clinton MUST be able to deal with the attacks and stay on message. I want them to come after her with all they've got, especially Edwards, who is probably the toughest debate partner she'll face, from either party, so that she will be ready for the republican hordes in 2008.

The more she faces the heat, the cooler and more self-assured she’ll be later. The more times she has to stand down 2 or 3 or more attackers, the easier it will be to handle one.
So, don’t fret about the coming attacks and debates. If Hillary is as good as I think she is, she not only knows she needs the toughening, she WELCOMES it, because she wants to be the best, strongest candidate she can be. She did fine this time out, especially considering the circumstances. She’ll build on this and be even better next time.

Van
It's not Clinton's rivals that have found an opening, it's the fact that the MSM is starting to ask questions on her positions on the issues.  The answers Clinton gives are both vacant of any substance, and inconsistent.  The inconsistency isn't even between today and 3-4 years ago, but are inconsistent to what she said seconds ago.  Who believes in Hillary?  How can anyone ignore that she is putting out bs 24/7 and has numerous different answers to the same question?

Clinton's rivals don't need to point out her lies. As long as people like Russert make even a minimal effort to question Clinton, she will self destruct.
Analysis of debate via Fox News

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8ocKiHEzvM
I think that Senator Clinton is trying to have both
ways.  She is using her feminity to say that she was pick on.  FOr 6 debates she didn't said that and was allow to get around the issues.  Now she has been call
on by her technique.  As a male democrat professional
I am turn off by it.
LET'S GO AFTER THE FRONT RUNNER CONTEST,"WILL FAIL". THE AMERICAN PEOPLE HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT !
Hillary's campaign then asked for more money so that they can spin more lies to cover up how incompetent she really is.
I believe this has been totally blown out of proportion, and I hate to say it, by the media.  It is so frustrating for me to listen, read and watch all the spin on this because it is so off base.  I watched the entire debate and I came away with a completely different impression of Clinton.  The reason it is frustrating is because it gives people the wrong impression.  I bet not many people watched the actual debate and more people are exposed to the post-debate reporting, which is why the media really has an obligation to report fairly.  If you just listen to the media, you would get the impression that the entire debate was about one issue and one issue only--granting illegal immigrants drivers licenses.  I believe it was a gotcha-issue.  It was injected at the last moment of the program,Clinton was not given a full opportunity to explain the issues (I think everyone can agree that the issue is a whole lot more complicated than either you agree or don't agree), and all the candidates were not asked to weigh-in (what if it turns out that other candidates, such as Obama and Edwards favor licenses for illegal immigrants, would there still be such a big sotry here?) Is the media trying to use this to marginalize Clinton as it did when it blew Howard Dean's enthusiasm in front of supporters totally out of proportion?
MSNBC should be ashamed of the way they conducted the Philadelphia debate.  Too many of the questions were designed to hem in candidates when meaningful answers would have not just taken more than the allotted time, but were proposed as demanding a simple answer with a complex set of circumstances behind the question itself.  So when asked when the ‘troops would come home’ would I prefer to hear an answer like ‘Immediately!’ – or a more nuanced answer focused on process rather than a ‘slam dunk’ response when no one can know what the status will be come January 08.  And on the Clinton targeting issue – it was set up and set in place by the media itself, and handed to the other candidates – both Williams and Russet asked her questions not posed to any other candidate.  But the reason I’m not sure I can ever take Tim Russet seriously again was the idiotic question about UFOs posed to Kucinich – made even worse by the fact that, again, this was posed to a single candidate – appeared to be designed to label him as the ‘Looney Left’.  To have Chris Matthew later ask Biden ‘What’s that all about?(pertaining to the UFO question) all I have to say is “Chris – YOU guys asked it!"  From one of your biggest fans, at this time : MSNBC = zero credibility.
It's here again... hillaryclinton.com
John B:

I guess with the fresh new scandals that Hillary has now, we can move the old ones to the back burner eh?

Clinton MUST be able to deal with the attacks and stay on message....
What is the message Van; Vote for me because I am a woman and have nothing to say about the issues?

I think we already know pretty much what is in the Bill Clinton paperwork, but this begs the question..
does this cover her role as first lady?  She can clearly end all this speculation (and shut me up) by releasing whatever paperwork everyone wants to see.
But I doubt that will happen anytime soon.

Joe Biden better sit in the back of the bus on this one.  He should worry more about how many Indians are working at Dunkin donuts.




vanreuter, NY NY (Sent Thursday, November 01, 2007 9:48 AM)

Van,

I agree that the Dem nominee must be battle tested in order to face whatever Republican smear bot they put up. Having said that, I happen to believe that all 3 of the top Dem contenders would be able to handle it.

So, seeing that they are pretty much in the same place policy-wise, I am trying to decide which one I can trust more. Hillary's evasiveness doesn't help. This is not created by the media - it's real. You have to concede that she took a risk by running her campaign that way. And it has worked up until now. But I think her mask was removed the other night.

But something about what John B. from Des Moines said regarding if she can "survive this evasiveness problem": if she wins the nomination, the Republicans will slam her on this. It is not something that will go away after the primary.

On a side note: Have you had problems getting things posted lately? I have tried responding to comments for a couple of days and I never see it posted (mainly in the afternoons).
Blood in the water now against Hillary.  To bad the wimps running against her will not be able to take advantage of it.  Those guys makes Dukakis look manly.  The Republican nominee though will not be so impotent.

Hillary is a house of cards built up by the media.  She's starting to get a little shaky now, so watch for the fall to occur soon.  Look for Hillary to have a Britney Spears moment.
J- Hi!

If there has ever been a different way to run out front and preserve wiggle-room for the general election, you'd have to show me where and when. The candidates with the least to lose are ALWAYS the most specific (and interesting) about what they'll do once elected, which is why I used to love watching PBS on election day when they would have every candidate from every (wacky) party on.

Some issues are complex, and not easily explained in a simple sound-bite, which is also one of Obama's dilemmas in the debate format. He and Clinton are both kind of intellectual policy-wonks who see and try to delineate the myriad facets of the challenges the next president will face. When you're actually trying to explain the complexities of a situation, you can seem to some to be saying two things at once.
IMO, Both Clinton and Obama would need toughening up to prepare for the republicans, whereas Edwards extensive trial experience makes him better prepared.

Sometimes my posts get lost too. The thing that gets to me is how they can post 10 new headlines but no new posts on the existing ones. The delay eliminates even the illusion of having a dialog.


Van  
 
As Gail Collins pointed out, NYT, HC is not saying very much. If you won't talk substance, well... It's not like the Clintons are not interesting people to talk about in a 'personal' way.

Reading MoDo the day before...

Quoting Caitlin Flanagan: "Her husband’s sexual behavior, quite apart from the private pain that it has caused her, has also sullied her deepest — and most womanly — ideals and convictions, for the Clintons’ political partnership has demanded that she defend actions she knows to be indefensible To call her husband a philanderer is almost to whitewash him..."

How long before Hillary's defenses of Bill come up? That really nasty period when she blamed the Right for what clearly was partly Bill's Problem?? How long before someone suggests Bill's sexual problems are serious, that the country will face the prospect of Hillary giving a State Speech and Bill showing up in a Dateline Sting? Unfortunately, I do think it will get this dirty. And if Hillary isn't going to address issues, it's going to be hard not to have a very personal campaign. Bill was impeached, disbarred. He'll be 'back' in the White House.

Shouldn't she do everything she can to make this campaign about issues? I don't think media attacks are what matters, when it's so obvious what the real attacks will be, and where they will come from.

The media built up Dean, tore him down. Same for Obama. Didn't the media make her the front runner? Surely she realizes how the general election campaign will shape up?

It is no way that anyone who watched the debate as an "undecided" voter would walk away saying "I will vote for Hillary". That notion is ridiculous. I am at this point undecided but Hillary is close to being out of the running in my mind as well as the others who attended the debate party I was at. It is less than 3 months to the primary, she is supposed to be asked tough questions. And a good candidate would be able to answer the questions clearly and the audience would walk away like "whoa" they asked tough questions but she answered them very well. Hillary did the opposite. She went back and forth in her answers, flip-flopping. And I think the thing that really turned me off from her is playing the "victim". If a man did the same thing, no way no one would buy it. All debates ask more and tougher questions to the perceived frontrunner, b/c due to their status it is clear that the people are more interested in them.

I also see many people defending her elusive response on the issue of illegal immigrants, saying it is a complex issue. Most are, but if someone ask you do you support a "specific" bill, not a "hypothetical" bill,then you should be able to say a simple "Yes" or "No". You can say, "yes, b/c ..." or "No, b/c...." but she didn't take a stance on it one way or another. That is troubling. I cannot vote for her.
I think Van is still getting over the whipping his girl took Tuesday night....Give him a break.

I'm sure he is double checking the polls to see which one's are in favor of his girl.
Bubba - It's here again... hillaryclinton.com


Hey Bubba, save us the trouble of going to the site, and just tell us what Hillary's positions are on the issues today.  We know they change hourly, and sometimes is seconds it would appear, so can we expect you to keep us up to date?
I'll repeat what i have said before. Democratic Party will loose another election if Hillary Clinton is their nominee.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. It is a given. I have been pounding this message in the last 3 months. Here are the issues.

Clinton's records locked in the library till 2012
Fund Raising Scandal that is working through the court
Polarization
Continuation of '90s battle
Her evasiveness on the issues
Clinton-Bush dynasty
Non-Transparent in Government
Establishment Candidate

These are the issues that will keep coming up and if democrats didn't address it in the Primary, then they are toasted for the general election.

Personally, i won't vote for Democrats if they elect Clinton. Please don't ask me why, because you all know who i am rooting for.
Jerry, just how racist are you?  I don't see anything wrong with Indians, or any other race, working at Dunkin' Donuts.  Seroiusly how far does your racism go?  Is it okay for black people to work at Dunkin'Donuts?  What about Hispanic?  Asian?  Native American?  Really, how far does it go?  
On Tuesday evening, as always, Hillary tried to dodge her answers, change her answers, or, as in the past, not answer at all…. and this time no one took the bait. No one played nice with her, not even the moderators who had to be fed up with her antics....she's the only candidate, during the televised debates that has ever said.."I'm not going to answer that question". She continually is showing that she’s part of the past, aligned with a failed political machine that’s rigged by insiders, for insiders. A system that has polraized the nation into gridlock,…and when pressed, she finally stubbed her toe on a hot topic “immigration”…. As Chris Matthew’s said after the debate, They’re (the republicans) are going to ride her like a thoroughbred on this one …if you think Edwards, Obama and Dodd were hard on her you wouldn’t want to see what an opposition candidate would do to her…she has more baggage than Samsonite and they know it…they don’t want to face anyone with “new” ideas….they’d rather rip her apart because she’s such an easy target with her politically suitable, conveniently adjusted to the situation, positions.

Also,  lest we all forget, one of the main reasons that the Republicans and George Bush were originally voted into office was because the public wanted a CHANGE FROM THE CLINTON’S POLITICS, a change from the never ending scandals, sexual escapades, dishonesty, impeachment proceedings and general untrustworthiness of the Clintons and their administration. The country was fed up with continually being duped, lied to and led down the path of dishonesty and corruption.....Notwithstanding her husband's inability to keep his penus in his pants, much less to utter the truth under oath, or directly to the American people... Hillary, was more than just an inside party to all of the deceit and scandal. She was much more than a “First Lady”, she played a prominent roll in the back room machinations of that administration.

Unfortunately, the ONLY reason that Hillary is re-surfacing is that the Bush/Republican alternative hasn’t been a change for the better versus The CLINTON YEARS, albeit there haven’t been any Clintonesque sexual exploits or lingering Bush scandals emanating from the past. Those issues aside, the people still feel lied to and duped over the WMD’s and pursuit of Saddam and the ill conceived, perpetuation of the Iraq war… not too mention Bush’s distortion of his executive powers...Although, to W's credit he hasn't perjured himself to a Federal Grand Jury.

Any delineation between Hillary and the truth is mere coincidence, she covets blind partisan politics as her greatest ally… If ever really put to task she’s seriously vulnerable on her lack of resume and abilities to get the job, any job done. Does she, or anyone, ever bring up her failed attempt at putting together a national healthcare program? That notwithstanding, she’s still the darling of the party insiders, Lobbyists, Political Interest Groups that are backing her to the hilt, lining up for their piece of the pie. So much for the transparent government, that she continues to mention, again and again, with no stated plan of any sort to back up her rhetoric.  

There are those that will probably defend her role in her husband’s administration as that of being the first lady and that Bill was responsible for the negative issues….really? If this woman is as opinionated and tough on the issues as they say, positioning herself as a Presidential Candidate, do you think that just magically became that way after her husband left office? No, this woman was a prime figure in one of the darkest, most deceitful periods in our recent political history,…..All of that aside, evidently, we’re all supposed to conveniently forget those dubious days, and concentrate on her more recent political moves, and statements, that show her true political positioning(s), such as,” Lobbyists are real people too”, or a her pork barrel attempt to have the taxpayers foot the bill for a “Museum to Woodstock”???…To which she doesn’t even offer an explanation, because,  if asked, she’ll side step the issue(s),  much in the same fashion that she’s choosing which questions she’s going to respond to in the debates…if she finds disfavor with a question, she just says, “I’m not going to answer that”…..is anyone fearful, this is just a taste of the future, or more is it more likely , a throw-back to those days when the nation was told face to face, by her husband,…”I did not have sexual relations with that woman”……again, the truth does not have a place in the Clinton gene pool.

I say it’s time to move on, get away from the insider candidate that has NO ABILITY TO DO ANYTHING OTHER THAN FURTHER POLARIZE THE NATION, to a newer less tarnished commodity, one that hasn’t already caved in to the leeches and lobbyists, someone who hasn’t already betrayed the publics trust….To that end, I lean towards Obama, he has taken an A-political approach on a number of occasions, only to be initially attacked by Clinton, as naïve, or  uneducated, only to flip-flop to his view point(s) when its realized that he was gaining popular approval from the voters….He’s the only one to admit his errors, and try new approaches…..truthful approaches.
Van

I agree totally with what you said about the Democratic nominee needing to be tested before the Republicans start attacking in general election campaign.  I said something similar in a post yesterday.  In a way, Senators Obama and Edwards are helping to prepare her for what will be a vicious onslaught if she is the nominee.  Instead of continuing to complain about "piling on" or bias on the part of Tim Russert, her campaign could use the debate as a good learning experience.

Citizen J
Agree with you too--Very well said. You gave voice to many of the same thoughts I have.  And yes, posting is a problem especially after lunch, for me, any attempt after 3:00 PM is useless.  This often annoys me, because it is hard to keep to the thread of the blog with such long delays between posts.  Also, makes for difficult give and take which( with a few exceptions!!) I find to be very informative, since I am still an independent who has no idea of how I will vote.  
Keep trying.
My GOD, before national T.V. She let the cat out of the Bag! Flipping and Flopping, babbling, stumbling to recover,

""THIS IS WHY AMERICA MUST PLACE LEADERSHIP IN THE WHITE HOUSE, WE HAVE NOT FORGOTTEN 10 MILLION DOLLARS WORTH OF LIES AMERICA PAID FOR WHILE THE CLINTON'S WERE IN THE WHITE HOUSE!

This event will be written in to the history books, as the exposed self serving paper hanger caught with a foot in her mouth.  Such a stupid display of wanting people to believe she is leadership qualified! This type of dialogue may play in Washington, but in the common house hold a LIAR is not tolerated.
The reason Hillary did great in the other debates is because she was not challenged by the other candidates.  As long as she was able to put a spin on the answers to the questions and double talk, she came off great.  She is a good debater.  In other words she can talk the talk like most politicans.  She is a smooth talker, she learned from the best. But is she willing or can she deliver?  I want a president that can walk the walk. I want one that will say what he or she means and mean what he or she says.  Don't tell  me what you think I want to hear but tell me what you can and will do for the people. A good president realizes that he or she can't please all of the people but will do what is best for most of the people.  I believe Obama is that person because I truly believe he is a honest person. We can trust him. We don't need a person with all that experience, instead, we need one  we can trust and does not have the Washington baggage.  I believe Obama will not get in office and forget who put him there and why he is there.  Some of the best leaders received most of their training on the job. The qualification a president should have is to understand what the people needs, integrity and willing to stand for the best interest of the people even if it is the less popular stand.  The media thinks he should have attacked Hillary more than he did.  No matter what Obama is trying to accomplish, he does not forget his raising.  He is a gentleman first. He knows how to respect and treat a lady as a lady.  You can bet if he attacked her viciously, the media would have  put a negative spin on that. I don't have a problem believing he can stand firm or hold his own when he needs to. He does what he thinks is best for him, not what the media or other people think is best for him.  At least we know he can't be swayed from his views or thinking if he thinks its right.
The problem as I see it is that both Edwards and Obama lack the fortitude to take Hillary on. They as well as everyone else have skeletons in their closets…who doesn’t!!! They all take money from special interests, they have too if they want to stay in the race. Until this type of fundraising is addressed and eliminated they have no other options if they want to win the election.

Edwards and Obama sit on the sidelines and tell everyone how they would have voted on issues. The fact is that Hillary was also on the campaign trail and took time off to fly back to Washington and cast her vote on declaring the Iran Republican Guard a terrorist organization, Obama didn’t and now says that he would have voted differently… he has stayed out of voting on these issues, so where the hell does he stand if he isn’t willing to cast a hard vote!!!

If it weren’t for MSNBC forcing the criticism, does anyone really think that they would have stood on stage and done this themselves. I’m sick of news organizations creating news, disenchantment, creating a stage where the first full hour was spent on he said, she said issues. I want the candidates to tell me how they will address the issues such as getting the troops out of Iraq, Health Care, employment, immigration, security, unlawful torture, nuclear proliferation as well as how they plan on restoring our democracy and our integrity in the world. These are real national and World issues and to use this debate and stage to bash Hillary is disgraceful.

I would have expected this from the Republican pundits, Russert and Williams, who have never shown any unbiased reporting or interviewing skills. They say that she sidestepped the last question on immigration… Bull$%#@ - she said that she understood why the Governor would want to issue a special license to Illegal Immigrants as there is no other way to monitor where or who they are and they drive on our roads uninsured and that our “Government” has done NOTHING to monitor or impede this problem.

I always thought that MSNBC was above board, that they were a step above the Fox Opinion Network but now I don’t know…Meet the Press, Hardball and Tucker are all anti-Hillary so how can people get un-biased facts and make an informed decision. Having been a FORMER republican I have held out a decision till now and I’m for Hillary, she has been the only one who has shown strength, a better decision making ability and leadership skills, while the others are playing catch-up she is looking to the General Election. I don’t expect her or anyone else who is in her position to make any commitments on issues till she gets into office and accesses the situation. It’s like getting someone to commit to building a bridge over the center of a ravine only the ravine turns out to be the Grand Canyon…would you want anyone that stupid…again…occupying the highest office in the land???
HINT: If Hillary gives 2 different answers to a question in the span of less than 60 seconds and then needs her campaign manager to further refine the answers (which only made the mess WORSE), she can't be trusted on anything. Period, end of discussion.

Hillary is busy playing to the general election as if she's already been through Denver and handed the nomination. I think she will be in for a VERY rude awakening in Iowa where they do not take very well to lies, inconsistencies, and evasiveness to the subjects that matter to them and the rest of the country.
<<LET'S GO AFTER THE FRONT RUNNER CONTEST,"WILL FAIL". THE AMERICAN PEOPLE HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT ! >>

And that light is that Hillary stands on nothing but her name since she won't take a stand on anything else.

For the campaign to say that she won't allow herself to get pinned down on anything is stupid. She HAS to take a stand on the important issues. What will she do to fix the housing crisis? What will she do to fix social security? What will she do about illegal immigration? What will she do to end the war in Iraq? What will she do about Iran's nuclear program? What will she do to fix damaged relationships with Europe? With Russia?

We the people have a right to know these things. She as a candidate for President of the United States, has a responsibility to tell us and NOW.

I encourage all future moderators to take a page from Tim Russert and get the answers we require.
Karen, Newton, CT>

I watched all but the first 10 minutes of the debate and if I were standing where Obama and Edwards were, I'd have been running for the shower after that debate. The smarminess and weasely ways she attempted to get out of answering those questions were sickening. It isn't the media's fault that she was unprepared and unwilling to cooperate with the moderators and answer the questions posed to her and the other candidates. They're entirely hers as she is running almost completely on name recognition and hoping that people will think back to the 1990s and Bill Clinton and think it'll be the same way now as it was then.

I believe enough people have seen through that charade that it can't happen for her.
<<Hillary is a house of cards built up by the media.  She's starting to get a little shaky now, so watch for the fall to occur soon.  Look for Hillary to have a Britney Spears moment. >>

Nah. After the other night, even Brittany has more credibility than Hillary.
Lily - I highly doubt any Britney Spears moment will be forthcoming from Hillary Clinton.  You have only to look at her history to know that she does not crack under pressure.  I don't recall any breakdowns when her husband's indiscretions with Ms. Lewinsky were front-page news for months on end.  Not only was the issue intensely personal, it was humilating.  Yet she behaved like a lady; she did not shave her head and go on a drinking binge.
The Clintons become stronger when attacked. Much, much stronger. Both Bill and Hillary have the knack of doing this, with great skill I might add. She will be our next president. Thank God we will have a democrat in the White House again.
Van,

I guess the point I am trying to make is that Hillary has been quite vague up until now about where she stands on certain tough issues. It has worked for her, so I can hardly blame her. However, I don't think that she will be able to pull that off anymore, since every candidate - Democrat and Republican - will be waiting to pounce on any fence-straddling. And for once, I don't think she was prepared for that. I don't know that she knows where to go next. I suppose it is far too soon to see where the top campaigns will go from here, but I think Clinton is a little uncomfortable right now.

Dot,

You being an Independent who has yet to make up her mind makes it all the more important that we continue our dialogue :). I hope that the few productive conversations on these threads are helpful. But mostly, I hope it is my arguments that are the most helpful.
WASHINGTON - Facing criticism, potential 2008 presidential candidate Joe Biden has been forced to explain his recent remark that "you cannot go to a 7-Eleven or a Dunkin' Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent."

On a recent edition of the C-SPAN series "Road to the White House," the Delaware senator is shown shaking hands with a man and boasting about his support among Indian-Americans.

"I've had a great relationship. In Delaware, the largest growth in population is Indian-Americans moving from India. You cannot go to a 7-Eleven or a Dunkin' Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent. I'm not joking," Biden said.

Stopwatching:

Joe Biden is the racist, not me.
Better brush up on your homework junior.

HILLARY IS SLICK & SLIPPERY AS BILL.HER EVASIVENESS IS NOT THAT SHE DOESN'T KNOW THE ANSWERS, IT'S THAT SHE DOESN'T WANT HER OPIONS DEBATED BY THE PEOPLE, JUST LOOK PROFESSIONAL & SPEAK CLEARLY & THE DUMP AMERICANS WILL VOTE FOR ME BECAUSE OF SLICK BILLY & I'M A WOMAN,LIKE TRYING TO FIX UP A DUMB FRIEND JUST LOOK PRETTY & FOR GODS SAKE TRY NOT TO TALK IF YOU WANT A SECOND DATE !
Chris, Penn: '...The Clintons become stronger when attacked. Much, much stronger. ...'

Why do the Clinton's keep getting 'attacked' ?
Hillary is slippery and evasive.
Hardly what you want from a 'leader'
It's amazing, you don't know where she stands, yet you support her ?
Why ?
She wasn't attacked, she was asked to tell the truth
She had real difficulty doing that
Iowa caucus goers probably watched that debate
NH primary voters probably watched that debate
It doesn't bode well for Hillary
Expect more hard questions from the contenders

'...Thank God we will have a democrat in the White House again...'

Yes Chris, hopefully a REAL DEMOCRAT, not a DLC crook
Hopefully a LEADER not a poser


The darkness is lifting
Edwards/Obama '08
HILLARY CLINTON WON'T ANSWER THE QUESTIONS ? WHAT A SURPRIZE ! SOME-ONE WHO WHATS TO CONTROL THE WEALTHIEST NATION WON'T ANSWER CLEARLY QUESTIONS DURING A DEBATE ?( ISN'T THAT THE PURPOSE ? ) WELL WOULD YOU TRUST A AUTO MECHANIC W/ YOUR CAR TO WORK ON YOUR KIDS BRAKES IF HE WON'T ANSWER A  SIMPLE QUESTION ABOUT THE BRAKES ?
Chris, Penn: '...The Clintons become stronger when attacked. Much, much stronger. ...'

By the time the election is over, they should be so strong it would make Superman look like a fairy.
Jerry, nice comeback.  wasn't sure where you going with the Indian thing.  Now I know.  I take back what I said.  I still think you're a right wing tool.  
Let me suggest one thing: if you don't have anything constructive to contribute, why don't you just read and give the fingers a break?  What with the personal attacks?  If Hillary is that slick as some have suggested, then what does that make those who support her?  C'mon people! She is a politician after all.  Yeah, I'm sure you would do much better wouldn't you?  Those of you posting constructive posts, do you not think Obama's strategy had perhaps worked?  I think he may have thrown her off her game a bit.  John Edwards had always attacked in the previous debates so I don't think that was anything new.  However Obama, having leaked the idea that he was going to be more forceful may have gotten to her a little, don't you think?
I agree with Vanreuter that it’s important that candidates be held up to scrutiny now so that they will be prepared for later.  What continues to distress and depress me is the banality and short-sightedness of what passes for political coverage and commentary.

As much as I generally enjoy Tim Russert as the moderator of “Meet the Press”, he Brian Williams and Chris Matthews are like referees that can’t get out of the way of the play.  These guys (and the rest for sure) seem so focused on the story they plan to write that they can’t help but step all over the process like my boring methods of teaching professor in college, “tell them what you are going to tell them, tell them, and then tell them what you told them”  So the pre-debate show we learn that that the challengers are going to open up on the presumptive front runner, then they direct a barrage of difficult questions at same and then spend the post debate speculating about how many punches were landed.

Would it be so hard to act as if all of the candidates, this many months from actual primaries, have a valid shot at winning the nomination and demonstrate respect for the process by asking each hard questions?  If you started peeling back the onion we might give the voting public an opportunity to make informed choices.  Perhaps then candidates like Biden might gain some traction even if its at the expense of a couple “empty shirts”.
Van,

I agree in part with your comment on holding them to public scrutiny. However, i don't think Hillary can withstand the public scrutiny if they start coming her way.
Thank you Stopwatch:

I still think you are an acid taking left wing nut job.....

But then again, this is america

That's why we rule! :)
By the time the election is over, they should be so strong it would make Superman look like a fairy.

Or worse, John Edwards.


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