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Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC Political Researcher



Rudy: Obama plan 'naive,' 'irresponsible'

Posted: Friday, November 02, 2007 12:21 PM by Domenico Montanaro
Filed Under: ,

From NBC/National Journal’s Matthew E. Berger
WASHINGTON -- Giuliani said not negotiating with Iran may be the one area that he agrees with Clinton and said the position of Obama comes from lack of experience.
 
“I’ll use her words about it: ‘naïve and irresponsible,’ ” Giuliani said. “The idea of begging your enemy to negotiate with you is a fundamentally flawed position.”
 
He added, Obama “has very little experience, and he may be displaying that.”
 
Also, Giuliani picked up the endorsement of Sens. Kit Bond (R-Mo.) and Norm Coleman (R-Minn.). And he also defended Michael Mukasey’s nomination for attorney general. But he became most animated when asked about Obama’s assertion that he would negotiate with Iran without preconditions.
 
“If we learned anything from the 20th Century,” he said, “I think what we learned is you don’t beg to negotiate with dictators, tyrants and supporters of terrorists. What you do is you develop a position of real strength.”
 
He said he believed “that most of the Democrats will find this to be an irresponsible position,” but later said he was unsure about Clinton’s position on Iran, because she had changed it.
 
“In deference to Sen. Obama,” Giuliani said, “at least he sticks to his position.”
 
On Mukasey, Giuliani said he believed he would make “an exceptional attorney general” and called him a man of integrity. “I think it’s a shame this whole issue has been politicized, and it has been,” he said. “I believe ultimately he will be confirmed.”
 
Giuliani also defended the statistics he used in a New Hampshire radio ad about the survival rates for prostate cancer in the United States and England. He said the numbers were accurate for the time he had the disease and said that he actually overstated the British numbers.
 
"Those figures are absolutely accurate for the time I had them,” he said. “In fact, they remain accurate today. Still, the point is very, very clear -- even if you want to quibble about the statistics.”

Bond will serve as a national chairman for Giuliani’s campaign. He brings conservative credentials for a Republican candidate that has not won many other Senate endorsements. Before today, Giuliani’s only other Senate backer was embattled Louisiana Sen. David Vitter. Bond said he believed Giuliani could fight terrorism and strengthen the military and intelligence.
 
“These are the programs that I believe are good sound conservative values,” Bond said, “and Rudy Giuliani has proven he can implement those programs. When all of that is said and done, I think America is hungry for a man who means what he says and does what he says he will do.”
 
Coleman and Giuliani are a more likely pair, given that both are former New Yorkers, former mayors and former Democrats. Coleman said he believed mayoral experience would be an asset for Giuliani.
 
“Now we have an opportunity to have a mayor in the White House,” Coleman said.  “Someone who understands it’s about what you get done.”
 
Coleman also took a shot against Democratic lawmakers, saying, “[T]heir vision is that if we are nice to Ahmadinejad, he’ll be nice to us. The world doesn’t work that way.”

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A new general election poll of Pennsylvania has some stunning results, with Clinton up by huge margins against Republicans: http://www.campaigndiaries.com/2007/11/morning-polls-is-pennsylvania-no-longer.html
I absolutely hate "Nave" plans.  There is really no place for them in our political system.
The Clinton/Giuliani/Bush approach thinks avoiding unnecessary wars is naive and irresponsible.  

Unfortunately for them, 70% of the public disagrees, and is sick to death of the true naivety and irresponsibility: that which wages war, bankrupts our treasury, depletes our military, and increases the number of terrorists.  Only Obama out of the four of them has a clue.
Oh Rudy, go find a new home(since many New Yorkers are pissed off at ya). Mr. Guiliani(a noun, verb, and 9-11), go reconcile with your kids and leave the rest of us alone.

Obama08 for a sane America and world
Thats right Daniel, same here in florida.
The Democrats need to reflect back on past elections and think about how they are are going to win in November of 2008.  Examining the past and current demographics makes Governor Richardson the best choice in a national election for two reasons.  First, he can make red Republican states competitive in the national election and he is more competitive as a Governor in the national election.

One persistent problem among Democratic supporters is that there is an assumption that the entire country thinks like the regions that are Democratic strongholds – such as the Northeast and California.  This is not true of the South or West.  Moreover, the Presidential Election is really not a national election, but a state by state election in which electoral votes are awarded to the winner.  If Democrats want to win in 2008 they cannot surrender half the country as they did in 2000 and 2004.  I am very doubtful of ability of all the Senators in this race to win one Southern state or even the states in the Rocky Mountain West.  These Senators come from the North - there is painful list of losing Democratic candidates with the same background - Kerry, Dukakis, and Mondale.  Even Al Gore, with his connections to Washington, was a Southerner only in name.

Again, the one thing I do know about Governor Richardson is that he will at least put Florida (27 electoral votes) and New Mexico (5) in play.  That total - 32 electoral votes would have put Kerry over the top in 2004.  The key is Governor Richardson is the Governor of a red state (New Mexico) and his Hispanic heritage will give him an advantage in Florida.  If nothing else, Republicans would spend more resources in Florida than they would with any other candidate and maybe the Democrats will pick up some other contested state.

Richardson's second strength is that he is a Governor.  Right now, Americans are not only disappointed with Bush, but also the Congress - the poll numbers of both are low.  When Americans want change in Washington they turn to Governors.  A Senator has not been elected President in 47 years and only two Senators were elected in the last 100 years.  4 out of the last 5 Presidents were Governors.  Americans are more likely to see electing a Republican Governor or Mayor as President as change in 2008 than electing a Senator from the Congress they are angry at as President.

If Democrats really want to win the White House they must think about the national electoral election now.  President Bush is not running in 2008.  Democrats must think about how to win over red states in the South and West and how to separate themselves from the Washington establishment.  Governor Richardson provides answers on both counts.
Sen. Obama = 3 years foreign policy experience;
Mayor Giuliani = 0 foreign policy experience
and it shows.  This man can't even think about the strategic possibilities that an engagement with Iran will bring.  Frankly, he is dumb!
Rudy is a liar---same as Bush--no different only he craps in his own back yard.Bush craps in others back yards.I would not even consider voting for a republican when they still carry georges water for him.They are all as inept to run this country as george has been---who needs more disaster?
Nixon negotiated with China and the Soviets.  Regan held summits with Gorbechov, right?  It seems reasonable to do the same with Iran.
Obviously this guy doesn't have a clue on foreign policy. He must be on steroid like edward sugested. Does she want to bomb Iran?

I guess they don't really understand the implication of bombing Iran.
Does this seem like Guiliani is coming to Hillary's defense by attacking Obama...does he really prefer to run against Clinton? Rudy is not Bush lite....he's Bush heavy.
Of course Normie R-MN would endorse Giuliani.  Both pretend to be conservative, neither are.

It's not unbelievable to me that Obama's opponents insist on.  Senator Obama has made it clear that he believes in a strong foreign policy--strong diplomacy first and using the military if diplomacy fails to secure our national interests.  That's not weak or giving in to our enemies, that's practical foreign policy.  He also believes that we should not give the REAL Al qaeda a free pass like the Bush and Clinton administrations of past have done.  That is a great point, and one that he was attacked for and took it like a man.  I guess his answers are too honest.  Hillary and the Repubs have to resort to lying and embellishment to mudsling him.
Guiliani is a meanspirited closet queen.
Why would Giuliani criticize anyone's experience in foreign policy? He has as little experience as anyone. I think Bush told him to say this.
The percentage of people in Iran who are pro American is way too high for a middle eastern country. We should cozy up to and turn a blind eye toward their tyrant leaders. I'm sure we can bring that percentage down more in line with other middle eastern countries.
"“The idea of begging your enemy to negotiate with you is a fundamentally flawed position.”

You put on a dress, divorce your wife, and GET TOUGH with them!


“[T]heir vision is that if we are nice to Ahmadinejad, he’ll be nice to us. The world doesn’t work that way.”


True. They helped us after 9/11 get Al Qaida members, and GWB (and all the other rabid neocon chicken hawk cowards) want to nuke them. Pretty crappy way to treat someone who's helped you, but in the GOP, that's how the world works.
Guilliani and Clinton really seem to be on the same spinning page.

Guilliani/Clinton 2008!
I thought Giuliani and Clinton was "Giuliani versus Clinton" could it be that Mr. Mayor fears Hillary's primary defeat would destroy the rationale of his candidacy?

Giuliani and Clinton are on the same team!

Democratic primary voters beware!!
Oh right, here comes Rudy Guiliani, the most unqualified man running for president (Joe Biden October 30th, 2007), and he's here to give us lectures about what we've learned from the history of the 20th century.  Maybe what he doesn't realize is that Hitler was the leader of the most industrialized and powerful nation on earth in 1938 whereas Achmedinajad is a tin-pot, figure-head dictator of a developing nation which has neither the ability nor real inclination to go to war.  What Mr. Mayor (and what experience does this position give Rudy to be president?) doesn't realize is that another irresponsible foray into the Middle East will recruit still more nuts for the forces of Al Qaeda.  Shall we make another mountain out of a molehill?  Rudy, you should remember Al Qaeda is only as strong as WE make them.  They are a bunch of dangerous thugs, but they have no country to defend, no people to feed, no national responsibilities.  They must be addressed, as we must exterminate any vermin, but this so called 'War on Terrorism' is as John Edwards said (and I agree whole heartedly) merely a Republican bumper sticker.  It is designed to instill fear into American hearts and act as a tool for Republican political mobilization.

Rudy, in case you have forgotten,  we, the U.S.A. are the most powerful nation on earth and if Iran were to make the slightest move on us or any of our allies they would be blown to kingdom come.  So let's stop playing the fear card and address the problem appropriately.  Maybe you need some lessons on Middle Eastern politics before you attempt to tackle the job of the presidency.  I know that GWB coulda used a lil' schoolin' before comin' to town.  At least he could have learned how to pronounce nuclear.  You, Mr. Mayor, show go back to fighting organized crime.
Obama '08
Hey Hukabee is on Charlie Rose, PBS right now were I live.
But this was funny, Rudy agrees with Hillary against Obama. god, I love it!!#=sarcasm!!#
This is really turning out to be a historic election cycle We got Papa bear, Momma bear and many baby bears who all want to sleep in the big bed. When will we be saved by the Woodsman,(open the door), HERES FRED, got out of his pick up to see what the ruckus is.
"I'M HERE,I'M NOT SOMEWHERE ELSE, dog needed food then a walk, the missus need me to pick up diapers and , dammit I had to have a few down at Billys bar, and shoot the shit with the boys a bit".
We all gotta love the village idiot, he doesn't know he is drooling, hand him a hanky and buy him a beer.
Rusdy Bullyanni comes in and hands you car keys, "it's yours" he said, "just don't tell nobody where you got it", he sides up to the barmaid and pinches her rump.
Just then a man with light around his well quaffed hair " Did anybody see my car keys, I got a real important meeting in the middle of the Utah desert?"
story continued tommorrow. title of story-'MOURNING IN AMERICA'
same time, same channel
Citizen J

I had the same thought about Giuliani's lack of experience.

And I didn't know that Senator Obama was "begging" to talk to the leaders of Iran.
This guy thinks being Mayor of New York is the best experience ever?  What planet is he on?  Being a state Senator and Senator is somehow bad?  

WHAT AN IDIOT
A noun, a verb, and 911.  No more, no less.  Another little man looking for a balcony.
RUDY IS A CLOWN IN A DRESS , WHO WOULD LISTEN TO HIM BUT HARD CORE REPUGS.
“I think what we learned is you don’t beg to negotiate with dictators, tyrants and supporters of terrorists. What you do is you develop a position of real strength.”


Right! Just IMPEACH that demented monkey!
Rudy the red nosed republican has no experience in foreign affairs and he has held no national office and his business takes money from terrorist supporting governments and he has no ability to pick people around him and he is a philanderer and liar...other than that he is ok
Stupid Get:
I laughed my a** off!  Thanks for the great post.
Obama '08
Let's see, 28 years of absolutely no change/improvement in our relationship with Iran, a critical contributor to the stability/instability of the region.  So Senator Obama suggests that we try doing something different, and Guiliani call HIM "naive"??  I would suggest the former mayor look at Einstein's definition of:

insanity: Doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result.

28 years of insanity strikes me as enough already!
Dot,

If he were running for Director of FEMA, I could forgive him. But he is about as qualified for president as about 15 other big city mayors. He is running on one thing and one thing only: 9/11. I loved Biden's line the other night. Noun. Verb. 9/11.
P Brown stated:

"Guiliani is a meanspirited closet queen."

That comment is unfair to closet queens!

On a related topic, Guiliani was quote as follows:

On Mukasey, Giuliani said he believed he would make “an exceptional attorney general” and called him a man of integrity. “I think it’s a shame this whole issue has been politicized . . .

That "exceptional attorney general" (Mukasey) doesn't know that waterboarding is torture? What?

Attorney General's have always been political appointees, so of course the issue is politicized. Duh!

What you don't understand, Rudy, is that once an Atttorney General appointee is confirmed and sworn into office he/she is expected to withdraw from the politics of the moment and express their legal views fairly and equitably. Foreign concepts to you apparently.  
Il Duce [[“If we learned anything from the 20th Century,” he said, “I think what we learned is you don’t beg to negotiate with dictators, tyrants and supporters of terrorists. What you do is you develop a position of real strength.”]]

What we've learned from the 21st Century is that Republicans like Rudy Mussolini and George W(aterboard) Bush will keep the country in a state of perpetual  war as an excuse to award themselves dictatorial powers.

Rudy is a typical bend over, stick your head in the sand, and call that a plan republican.

Not talking to Iran means you dont have a plan.
What are you going to do Rudy? Criticizing Obama's concrete and sensible strategy is not a plan?
It sounds like Rudy wants to get in Hillary's panties.
......Oh wait, I forgot, he's a republican. ...wrong sex.
|| This guy thinks being Mayor of New York is
|| the best experience ever?

Not the best, but successfully leading a city of 8 million, as Giuliani did, is a significant accomplishment.

|| What planet is he on?

Earth.  Same as most of us.  What planet are you on?

|| Being a state Senator and Senator is somehow bad?

No. But making speeches and voting, like Senators do,  is a lot different job assignment then running the daily operations of the biggest city in the US.  Some would call that, experience.

|| WHAT AN IDIOT

Yes, you it appears that you are.
Rudy is a typical bend over, stick your head in the sand, and call that a plan republican.


That's a better place then where Democrats typically stick their heads.
Where are the people who actually support this blowhard?  Has anyone less qualified EVER run for the Presidency?  
"It sounds like Rudy wants to get in Hillary's panties."

No, no - you might be right - Hillary just needs to be out of them, first.
I guess Hillary and Rudy are sharing phrases...or is it just pillow talk?  "Rillary" or "Hudy" are the two most non-imaginative, arrogant and underqualified candidates to run for President.
Bb Texas,

You are nut...your joke is hillarious
Is Rudy talking about Dictators, or Divorce Lawyers? I always get confused by his invectives, and/or Boolean Unsatisfiabilty Problems concerning Matrilineal Logistics.
One thing that Rudy did NOT learn in the 21st Century is that Iran assisted the United States against the Taliban and Al Qaeda in Afghanistan afterh 9/11 and got nothing but threats and insults from G. Waterboard Bush as thanks for their troubles. So the moderates in the Iranian government lost power and were replaced by Bush's mirror image fruitcake, Ahmadinejad. But Bush's rule by fear needs foreign "enemies" like Ahmadinejad, not friends.
Houston: Dictators do not get to be defeated by veto overrides[see:Above FR blog of the first Bush veto override by Congress regarding a national water bill]. You are being ridiculous. You forget also that even Democrats have advanced advocation of torture[Schumer,Clinton],with both using the ''imminent threat''excuse for the use of interrogation tactics deemed to be ''torture''by administration critics. For what real dictators are up to these days,as opposed to the figments of your fertile imagination,go here:

The Associated Press,Nov.02,2007:''Soldiers Break Up pro-Democracy Rally in Venezuela''.
The new general election poll of Pennsylvania has some stunning results, with Clinton up by huge margins against Republicans: http://www.campaigndiaries.com/2007/11/morning-polls-is-pennsylvania-no-longer.html
Daniel, NY (Sent Friday, November 02, 2007 12:32 PM)
___________________________________________________***
That's right Daniel, same here in Massachusetts.
James Wiseman stated:

"Rudy is a typical bend over, stick your head in the sand, and call that a plan republican."

I agree that describes Rudy's policy "planning" process, but I suspect he bends over for mutiple reasons . . .  
Rudy thinks the AG selection is being politicized? Was he around when Nixon picked his CAMPAIGN MANAGER John Mitchell (the first United States Attorney General ever to be convicted of illegal activities and imprisoned--wikipedia).
What foreign policy experience does RG have?  Eating pizza in Little Italy doesn't count, Rudy!  And I do not recall hearing Obama state he would beg the enemy.  He simply stated he would sit down with those on the other side.  That's a lot more than Bush and the republicans have done.  They don't beg nor sit down!  They lie, they set up our nation for failure and bomb while Rudy travels the country pandering to the neo and theo-right!
Yeah, Rudy is Mr. Strength when he's not doning womens cloths or cheating on every one of his three wives. Why a person of his experience and history of accomplishments would have no trouble finding honest employment in either the used car business or Mayor of Baggdad.
Well I am from Chicago and like many Chicagoans still waiting for any reason to validate my vote for Obama. We didn't know much about him before and we elected him -well he was lucky the Republicans in Illinois were in total disarray- and he was elected to represent us there. He pledged to serve his full term and bring "change to Washington,' all we have seen in Illinois is the changes made to his fortune, his wealth and his friends. He is not here to solve the transportation problems we are having, he is silent about all the proposed tax increases in Illinois (by his friends in Springfield and his mentor Major Daley), he was silent for the huge rate energy rates increases by ComEed (big Illinois fundraising for Obama), etc.  Where is Obama? Ah, he is promoting his books and promoting him personally. Not wonder his personal wealth has increased 1000% since he went to D.C.

Now, it seems that Obama is now trying to call for attention really. He should not be playing "opportunistic politics" with a serious issue like Iran. Where was he when the critical vote for the initial amendment was need it? He was campaign!  A real calculated move to use the vote Against Clinton afterwards. If the issue was so important then as it is for him now, he should be doing his primary job that is to be a Senator for the State of Illinois instead of campaigning to friendly urban crowds, college kids or doing the TV sows celebrity circle (Tyra Banks, Ellen, Oprah or Hollywood mansion’s fundraising). If the issue is so critical for him now, why he didn’t signed the Webb’s letter co-sponsoring two other pieces of legislation reaffirming that Bush cannot use force against Iran without congressional approval. His “Audacity of Hope” is becoming “The Audacity of one Opportunistic, Energetic Totally Unprepared Politician” using big words and “big friends” to become President. Shame! I still waiting for a real example, policy, record that shows me or anyone else why we should vote for him, he doesn’t deserved the trust we people in Illinois put on him to represent us in D.C. all he is doing is running for President since he got elected.  We still are waiting in Illinois….we still waiting. Where is Obama?

Lee Holmes [[ Dictators do not get to be defeated by veto overrides]]

Veto overrides are irrelevant when a president decides he can ignore Congress as long as "we are at war," which means "as long as a pub is in the White House."

[[You are being ridiculous. You forget also that even Democrats have advanced advocation of torture[Schumer,Clinton],with both using the ''imminent threat''excuse for the use of interrogation tactics deemed to be ''torture''by administration critics. ]]

You are being an idiot. The Bush regime has NEVER used the waterboard torture in the hypothetical "ticking time bomb" situation. The only use Bush has put it to is getting prisoners to say what his torturers want to hear. Amusingly, the Republican talking point talkers cite the confessions of the 9/11 mastermind Khalid Shiek Mohammed as a case that shows how useful waterboarding is. It was useful, they got the guy to confess to confess to crimes that they know he didn't commit. Yeah water boarding is very useful. To a dictator.

[[For what real dictators are up to these days,as opposed to the figments of your fertile imagination,go here: ]]

Venezuela already has a democracy,and a president that won an honest election, unlike, sadly, the United States where Bush won two elections by various kinds of flim flam, mostly by keeping blacks from voting. Chavez wants to change the constitutions that may point to more authoritarian rule, but at least he's going through the formality of getting the constitution changed rather than just ignoring it altogether as President G. Waterboard Bush has done here.
rudy911...keep playing it over and over...some can still be conned


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