ABOUT FIRST READ

First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



Oh-eight (D): Obama on Hillary, John

Posted: Friday, November 09, 2007 9:17 AM by Domenico Montanaro
Filed Under:

BIDEN: “While most presidential candidates have been talking tough about Iran lately, Joe Biden, a Democratic senator from Delaware, refocused his foreign policy agenda on Pakistan at a Saint Anselm College forum yesterday. He criticized President Bush's handling of that country's current constitutional crisis, and outlining a comprehensive alternative, he took the country as a case study of how the administration has squandered America's moral standing in the world,” the Concord Monitor writes. 
 
CLINTON: The New York Times: “Former President Bill Clinton said Thursday that he should receive more blame than his wife for the failed attempt to revamp the nation’s health care system more than a decade ago. ‘You know how much she cares about this,” Mr. Clinton told an audience in Glenwood, Iowa, according to an account on MSNBC. ‘She has taken the rap for some of the problems we had with health care the last time that were far more my fault than hers.’” 
 
Following Bill on the campaign trail, the Politico writes about his “unexpected difficultly with the media” as of late. “Though Clinton is justifiably heralded as perhaps the quintessential retail politician and political communicator of his generation, contemporary political coverage -- broken up as it is into tiny blog items and wire dispatches, further chewed on by partisan blogs and opposition research shops -- doesn't favor his style. While his wife thrives on the clarity of simple declarations -- ‘If President Bush doesn't end this war, I will’ -- the former president is always more oblique. He plays jazz to her classical music, as one longtime Clinton associate puts it.” 
 
Clinton yesterday signaled her support for the Peru trade deal. And in a statement, Edwards jumped all over it. “I am terribly disappointed by Senator Clinton’s support for the Peru trade deal. At a time when millions of Americans are concerned about losing their jobs and the economy, it is dismaying that Senator Clinton would side with corporations, their lobbyists and the Bush Administration in support of a flawed trade deal that expands the NAFTA model.” 
 
“A fear among Democratic candidates has been growing along with Clinton's lead in the Democratic presidential primary, though few care to talk about it on the record,” Time reports in its article on Clinton called “Lightning Rod.” More from the piece: “Democrats worry that those fragile gains [of 2006] could be difficult to hold in 2008 if one of the most polarizing figures in politics is at the top of the ticket.”
 
“Says a purple-state Congressman who is nervous about holding onto his seat if Clinton is the nominee: ‘She certainly will get Republicans riled up. They will not only go out and vote against her--they'll stop off at their neighbors' house along the way and drag them to the polls.’ And another: "No one wants to talk about her down-ticket effect for fear she'll win," a purple state Democratic official says, "and she'll take it out on you." 
 
Per NBC/NJ’s Athena Jones, Clinton -- who has been suffering from a cough she blames in part on seasonal allegories and spending a lot of time on planes -- cut short her stump speech at her last campaign event yesterday of her two-day swing through New Hampshire to answer questions on nuclear weapons, scouting, gun control and other issues. Clinton spoke for only about 6 minutes, listing the bullet points from her usual 30 or 35 minute-long speech, before asking audience members to step up to the microphones set up for questions.
 
Clinton “has won tens of millions of dollars more in federal earmarks this year than her rivals for the Democratic presidential nomination, even though two of them have significantly more Senate seniority,” The Hill newspaper reports. 
 
The New York Times writes about the Clinton campaign’s own fact-check Web page. The campaign yesterday “introduced a Web site dedicated exclusively to the instantaneous rebuttal of charges or news reports it deems offensive or wrong. And the day offered a perfect opportunity for the campaign, with a potentially embarrassing mini-scandal: a waitress’s report that Mrs. Clinton had failed to tip after eating at a Maid-Rite diner in central Iowa, an assertion that ricocheted around the Internet on Thursday.” (FYI: the site linked to First Read’s own reporting to debunk the story.) 
 
The New York Post: “John Podesta -- former President Bill Clinton's chief of staff -- filed papers yesterday to create a new '527' organization expected to pump millions into TV ads and efforts to get Democrats to the polls.” 
 
DODD: The Concord Monitor writes about Dodd’s time in the Peace Corps.
 
EDWARDS: Caucus for Priorities, a group with 10,000 Iowans pledged to caucus for the candidate it chooses to endorse, is set to back Edwards today. The group is the Iowa arm of Priorities Action Fund, which is focused on cutting the Pentagon’s budget by 15% and reallocating the money to other areas like education, health, housing and the environment.
 
“We have lots of friends in this race but only one champion,” wrote Ben Cohen, creator of Priorities Action Fund and the founder of Ben & Jerry’s Ice Cream. “Without question, John Edwards is the most committed and best prepared to bring about the kind of real change Washington desperately needs. John Edwards is uniquely qualified to take on Washington lobbyists and defense contractors and break the stranglehold they have on the nation’s pocketbook and reins of power.” The group took into account electability, a questionnaire, and an online poll of the 10,000 pledges. 
 
OBAMA: In an interview with the Washington Post while campaigning in Iowa, Obama took on Clinton and Edwards, “arguing that Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (N.Y.) cannot appeal to independents and Republicans as effectively as he can and asserting that former senator John Edwards's populist message does not square with his record.”
 
More: “Obama spoke frankly about the difficult balancing act of drawing ever sharper distinctions with his opponents, particularly Clinton, without succumbing to going negative to overtake a front-runner. ‘I want to campaign the same way I govern, which is to respond directly and forcefully with the truth,’ Obama said. ‘That means I'm not going to paint a caricature of Senator Clinton. I think she's a smart, able person. I think anybody who tries to paint her as all negative is engaging in caricature, and when you start slipping into that mode, it's hard to come back.’” 
 
But Obama faced his own questions yesterday, the Des Moines Register reports. “At least three people at two campaign stops called into question whether Obama, with less than two months from Iowa’s Jan. 3 primary, can overcome Clinton’s advantage over fellow Democrats in national polls.” Obama responded “that he doesn’t carry the same political baggage as Clinton, a former first lady whose health plan reform in the 1990s failed. That, he said, makes him a better candidate. But he needs a good showing in Iowa and New Hampshire, the first-in-the-nation caucus or primary states, to convince the rest of the nation, he said. ‘This state is very important to me, this town is very important to me. That’s how we’ll win,’ Obama said in Fairfield.” 
 
The Boston Globe front-pages whether or not black voters in South Carolina have confidence in Obama with this headline: “Politics of doubt gnaw at black voters in S.C.” " ‘Personally, I don't think he has a chance in hell,’ said Leah Josey, a 20-year-old English major at Morris College, a Baptist school in Sumter. ‘All those white people? Come on.’” More: “Such sentiments are prevalent among black South Carolinians, who are expected to make up nearly half of voters in the Democratic primary in January. Nearly a third of black voters surveyed in a statewide poll in September said white Americans would not vote for a black presidential candidate.” 
 
And the Chicago Tribune has this: “Although Obama has suggested in recent days that Clinton should do more to push for the release of archival documents from her time as first lady, he defended his own lack of a document retention procedure from his Illinois Senate days, saying he had a staff of just one. ‘Whatever remaining documents that I have are inevitably incomplete and then the question is going to be where's this, where's that,’ he said. ‘Once I start heading down that road, then it puts me in a position that could end up being misleading.’”

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Comments

I find it very interesting what you chose to highlight in the article.  It went on to say:

I've heard that some folks in the barber shops, beauty shops - you know better than I - say to themselves, 'I like Obama . . . But I'm just not sure America's ready,' " Obama said at an NAACP dinner in Sumter Friday night.

"Say it!" someone called out, egging him on, and Obama continued mimicking the nay-sayers.

"I'm not sure other folks are ready. I'm not sure he can win."

"Preach!"

"Don't go around telling me I can't do something," Obama said, nearly yelling now. "Because if you're telling me I can't do something, that means you're telling your child they can't do something. That means you're telling yourself you can't do something. I don't believe that I can't."Continued
.

"He does that, nobody beats him in South Carolina," said US Representative James Clyburn, a prominent black political leader in the state who is neutral in the primary.

As black voters wrestle with Obama's electability, the excitement he generates in black audiences is palpable.

Even Josey, the Morris student pessimistic about his chances, allows herself to dream.

"I think he can do big things," she said.

Jerome McCray, 42, who operates Today's Fashions in downtown Manning, said people have to realize that if no one has the courage to stand up, nothing will change.

"If you don't, who will?" said McCray, who is deciding between Clinton and Obama. "You have to be counted."

One person who has heard all this before is Kevin Johnson, Manning's 47-year-old mayor, who was elected in 2000 as the city's first black leader. When he first ran, he said, people told him the same thing they are telling Obama today.

"That's why I'm so passionate about this," Johnson said as well-wishers greeted him in the center of his city. "People have to put that doubt aside."

Why did you chose to leave the impression that  all Black people believe he can't win?..Oh I see it was written by Domenico.  Question answered.

So, he just put forward a comprehensive, clear and good approach to a Pakistan policy http://www.joebiden.com/newscenter/pressreleases?id=0214 . It was him that claimed that Bush had a Musharraf policy, not a Pakistan policy (others soon echoed his sentiments).

Then, instead of blowing off steam and rhettoric on the Pakistani mess and the WH follies (as he pointed out before this whole mess started, he comes out with a plan, a multiprong comprehensive plan of attack!
He has this type of plan for Iraq as well! He doesn't just talk the talk, he has what it takes to develop the sophisticated plans needed to handle the world's affairs, and publishes them. - No other candidates can do this. They offer diplomacy or change or other energized 'words' but not concrete plans.

Someone please tell me why I should vote for any of the front-runners over this guy. I am looking for a strong reason.
The happy bs Bill and Hillary put out on Bill's first election run isn't going to work this time around. Everyone knows their little routines where each tries to cover for the others mistakes. It was cute then, it's just annoying now.
Obama's campaign theme of "opposing" the war when he couldn't vote doesn't square with his record when he could vote. If Obama were REALLY opposed to the war, why was he silent during his first year in office? Why did he vote with Repubs for every war funding bill - until he entered the prez race?

Very deceptive.
So it is better to release nothing at all than incomplete records?  I disagree.  If you expect Hillary to release her records, then you better damn well be willing to do the same, regardless of how "complete" they are.  

The last sentence - his concern that it will put him in a position that could be "misleading" - reveals that Obama is a politician just like any other politician.  If it makes him look bad, he won't do it - even if he has asked other candidates to do the same thing.  



November 09, 2007
Read More: Bill Clinton

Dept. of schadenfreude

Sanctimonious watchdog group concedes error.

   Correction: Nov. 8: Our story originally stated that Sen. Clinton’s response to Russert’s question was misleading. We made the same MISTAKE Russert did, MISREADING the former President’s letter to the Archives."

(Not to pick on FactCheck.org, which often does very good work.)"
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1107/Dept_of_Schadenfreude.html

Oh, that's freaking rich; A hundred stories everywhere and her opponents attacking over something that was FALSE and a crummy little one paragraph Bullshit, cop-out) retraction.
So Russert, MISREAD the letter? Must have been really complicated stuff.


Van
Unlike Bill, Obama didn't write any letters banning the documents from being released, and then blame it on "the processees".  Having one person on your staff is a credible delay, but complaining about the delay when a letter has been written to guarantee it is disingenuous; furthermore, we already know a LOT more about what Obama did in the Illinois State Senate than we know about what Clinton did as first lady, because the former is an elected office of public record, and the latter is not.
"Clinton -- who has been suffering from a cough she blames in part on seasonal allegories [allergies]..." Yes, it's easy suffer from seasonal allegories when you cannot offer a straight answer.  Anyway, I really posted this to make a statement that will reflect poorly upon myself.  I've always found those suffering from allergies to be genetically or at least physically inferior, which does not jive with my mental picture of President; though clearly not a reason not to vote for somebody.  (Some of our best Presidents were paralyzed from polio).  I am a terrible person.

Wow, a Clinton-oriented fact check—that would be like going to Bush to fact check the Iraq war.  Anyway, as I was driving my Toyota and listening to NPR this morning, the NPR correspondent who broke the story stated that he should have questioned the Clinton’s before airing.  Anyway, the waitress says that she never got the tip, but the Clinton campaign says that it left a tip of approximately $100.  They said that they paid it on credit card, which according to the waitress was broken.  To which they then said that they left about $100 in cash to which some of the other waitresses might have kept, but the waitress claims that they wouldn’t do that.  The manager was not present at the restaurant at the time.  They also mentioned that a Clinton spokesperson stopped by the restaurant yesterday to pay a $20 tip.  I don’t know who’s right and who’s wrong in this she said, she said scenario and frankly, I don’t really care.  You all were too funny arguing over this yesterday.  I loved the post about Clinton would have received $2,300 in donations if the establishment had a Chinese dishwasher or Bee’s comment on fiscal irresponsibility if she was in fact joking.

In response to all the black folk with the feeling of “All those white people? Come on.”  You’re in America, if you want something you have to stand up and fight for it, errr vote for it.  Putting aside whether it’s right or wrong to vote based on race or gender, I do respect the women who are voting for Clinton based on symbolic gender equality, because at least they are standing up for something they believe.  (I however dislike terms like ‘empowerment’ or ‘class ceiling’, ugh too feminine?)  I’m obviously not a fan of the current state of the civil rights movement, because I think they are failing their people.

That was a lot of writing, hmmm I feel like I should end this post differently.



Van
Obama is slowing falling apart, the experience question and the idea that he must continue to attack the people ahead of him in the polls show a man swinging at shadows.
Oh, his papers could be misleading, but Hills papers will, what, show clarity. strange and stranger, will he quit giving the repubs ammunition or will he be one of the reasons they get more?
2008 Presidential Election Weekly Poll
http://www.votenic.com
Results Posted Every Tuesday Evening.
Update on the no-tip story: NPR reports that the manager was not at the restaurant when the Clinton group was there and thinks that some waitresses were tipped but not the one in the NPR story.  That waitress, who was working the counter, stands by her story despite the panicky insistence of Clinton staffers that somehow she had to have been tipped.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16143435
Obama Loses Our Vote
Thursday, November 08 2007 @ 10:34 AM EST
Edited by: Michael Hess

But Not for Being Too Young

BBSNews Blog 2007-11-08 -- According to news reports Barack Obama has made it clear that Hillary Clinton is too old to unite the country and incessant harping on the same old tired issues since the 1960's is also getting old. There are many quick retorts that come to mind, and none of them particularly favoring Obama's new found point of view, and we won't review them here.

What's clear is that there is now a sense of desperation as the fight for the Democratic nomination draws near, and the Obama campaign is clearly desperately lashing out trying to get some traction against what is increasingly becoming a forgone conclusion; Hillary Clinton will be the Democratic nominee for president of the United States in the upcoming 2008 presidential election.

For good or bad, Republicans and most Democrats know that Hillary Clinton is the electable candidate. Republicans have made their choice as well. Some are holding onto principles, some are endorsing Rudy Giuliani including Pat Robertson.

The United States will become even less united under another Republican administration. US standing in the world is at an all time low given the horrible state of affairs that the current Republican administration has fomented world-wide with war being on the top of the agenda and real peace nothing but a far away dream.

Those of us who never gave up the idealism of the 60's cannot afford to pick a candidate that reflects 'go along to get along' values just to garner a few votes and sell down the river the Democratic values that brought America the Civil Rights Act and countless other initiatives and laws that helped level the social, economic and business playing fields in America. And that work is clearly far from finished.

According to the New York Daily News Obama said on America's right-wing extremist network Fox News:

"'Sen. Clinton and others, they've been fighting some of the same fights since the '60s, and it makes it very difficult for them to bring the country together to get things done.'"

Bye bye Barack. Who knew that the fight for equal rights, fairness and equal treatment under the law had an expiration date?

http://bbsnews.net/article.php/2007110810342814


Van
Shadow:  

I didn't see Obama saying that this was a delay.  He defended his failure to release his own records by saying that they were incomplete and might put him in a position that is "misleading."  He didn't say he was working to compile his records and release them as soon as possible.  He may have had a staff of 1 then, but he has a pretty big staff now.  
thank you shadow , you beat my to the punch . Carrie can you please read shadows post . And would you people quit trying to grasp at straws because your candidate is not forcomming . As for as being transparent if you are trying to compare obama in any way to clinton ,you ethier dont know any thing about whats been going on in politics the last ten years or just being lead like sheep ;.
vanreuter, NY NY (Sent Friday, November 09, 2007 11:22 AM)

Van,

I am disappointed that you would post something like that. First of all, BBS News? Second of all, this reeks of bias.

"Bye bye Barack. Who knew that the fight for equal rights, fairness and equal treatment under the law had an expiration date?"

No respectable journalist would put this in a factual news story.

"For good or bad, Republicans and most Democrats know that Hillary Clinton is the electable candidate."

And where are the facts to support this?

"Those of us who never gave up the idealism of the 60's cannot afford to pick a candidate that reflects 'go along to get along' values just to garner a few votes and sell down the river the Democratic values that brought America the Civil Rights Act and countless other initiatives and laws that helped level the social, economic and business playing fields in America. And that work is clearly far from finished."

And this?

If by posting this article, you were just intending to put out another opinion by someone who has clearly made up their mind, then that is fine. But this shouldn't be posted as fact.
It is amazing to me that neither MSNBC nor any other media organization has tried to "connect the dots" re Clinton's huge earmarks. How does "fiscal responsibility" reconcile with the complete and utter lack of oversight for how contractors waste these tax dollars? For example, what oversight does upstate New York contractor and ultimate earmark-recipient Lockheed-Martin receive? The answer: none.

Look how much oversight they receive on the 200+ million dollar per year USAF GCSS contract that Lockheed runs from Endicott, NY.

Look at http://www.herbb.hanscom.af.mil/esc_opps.asp?rfp=R1291 and read the first Q&A response in "GCSS-AF II Industry Day Questions & Answers," a Word document named, "ID_Q_A_071106.doc"
I don't know who will win the Democratic nomination outright, but I do one thing. Hillary will not win in Iowa. #rd at best is where Hillary finishes come January 3rd.
Van,

That article you just posted is a piece of utter crap. The reason Obama states that the way of doing business from the 1960s is broken is NOT because things like civil liberites and equal rights is wrong or has an "expiration date", but that the WAY of doing things is wrong. The 1960s were some of the most turbulent times in the world's history. Back then, you did go to war or take military action.

The world is far more inter-connected today than it was 40 years ago. Television, newspapers, and most importantly, the internet has connected the people of the world in a way that people living back then couldn't begin to fathom. Force, or the threat of force, was the only means to ending any hostility between nations. Now, that is entirely not the case.

THAT, my friend, is the reason why Obama dismisses the people of Bill and Hillary's generation. They believe strongly that their way of doing business is the ONLY way of doing it. Hillary attempts to talk diplomacy, and yet states that she is against leaving Iraq? Why? It's that mentality that that generation holds. Why do you think she called him "naive and inexperienced?" It's because she grew up in a time when you didn't sit down with your enemies. You shoved your military down their throats a la Dubya.

It has nothing to do with losing out on civil rights. Hell, he's a black man running for President. You don't think that he understands the position he is from the aspect of race relations in the country? If you think he doesn't, and the author of that article is one of these people, you have absolutely NO idea what you're talking about and should NOT be taken seriously.

I agree with KI and Shadow.  I don't think Clinton campaign wants to have the transperency arguement with the Obama campaign or they would be doing it!!!
This is still not part of the importance of a real discussion of qualifications. Are we to believe that, somehow, these hidden records would reveal some sort of real qualifications?

In comparing the Democrat candidates:
The way I see it, there are no real differences in the domestic social agendas save for a difference in scope.
The only real domestic difference here is that most of Washignton's leaders are willing to work with Joe Biden and cross the aisle for him, as apparent in the 75 vote Iraq Exit strategy. (Also for his Crime Bill, His violence against Women Act and Dodd has the Family of Medical Leave Act). No other candidate has this unification strength.
The foriegn experience he has shadows all other candidates.
Carrie, I think that a candidate is supposed to keep their campaign and professional staff separate.  Anybody feel free to correct me if I am wrong.  I think that I actually remember Clinton getting into trouble awhile ago for sending campaign memos from her Senate office or through her Senate staff or something of the related.  That girl seems to have a knack for trouble.
So clinton did a whole lot of good things and Obama has done much less.Just vote democratic.
Van (and Michael Hess) -

You have misquoted Obama as has much of the media regarding his statements.  He said Hillary is fighting the same way it was fought in the 60s - esp. in regards to the '68 election.  You only divide the nation up into what you can and can't win, then work a little in the areas you could win.  It's why McGovern lost.  Obama was simply stating that he doesn't see the country that way.  He's campaigning to every group - dems, republicans, independents, old, young, families, black, white asians, latino, small towns, big cities, and it goes on and on.
Check out the compilation of polling results on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_States_presidential_election%2C_2008

Senator Obama's comments are well verified here.  Senator Clinton's ratings are double-edged - she has more favorable votes, but far more unfavorable votes than Obama.  With Obama's large "unsure" group, he can win support Senator Clinton simply can't.  Further, with NBC slowly morphing into the polar-opposite of FOX, we may create a Democratic-party demagogue if Senator Clinton wins the 2008 primaries and general election.

I can't help but begin to see a replay of the 2000 election again, but with the Clinton's Democratic Party being the party who wins by technicality...
When you are losing GROUND in the polls then you must SMEAR your opponents to change the subject.

Has anyone else noticed Van's(Howard) new posting methods.  He is on every board with a different "negative" article that is smearing Obama.

I am sure it is from his free time in not wanting to tout the slippery slide Hillary is taking in the polls.
Carrie you misunderstand,

The problem is not so much that Hillary told us she won't release her records. But that she is so condenscending to be thinking that we believe the "I have nothing to do with how fast the archives are released" excuse.

She should have just said that she is afraid repugs will use it to misinform people. And that would have been the end of it.

But instead of squaring she mislead. There's a pattern of her doing that.
Ki - I read it, and have responded to it. Thanks for butting in.  It's always nice to be treated to your insulting posts.  :)
Carrie - Then the question remains why are you assuming that Obama is refusing to release them?  I wouldn't have assumed it about Hillary if Bill hadn't written a letter refusing to release them.  Once that cat was out of the bag, still claiming that "processees" were the hold up was a bold face lie, and far more offensive and telling to me than the more heavily covered driver's license waffle.  I don't know yet for sure who has my vote, but one thing is clear to anyone who does the research; Obama's ethical record is the strongest we've had in a potential President in the modern era, and Clinton's ethical record does not begin to approach it by any objective measure.  Not even close.  Assuming the two are on common ethical ground is itself insulting to the intelligence.
While the media,Republician candidates as well as other Democratic candidates continue to nibble away at Hillary like the bunch of mice they really are,none of them are willing to take note that the American public continues to give her an ever  increasing lead in almost all the polls.The Democrats,with their attacks against one of their own,seemed to be heading down the road once again that leads to shooting themselves in the foot.WAKE UP GUYS!!!At the rate you're going ,we're going to have another "good old boy", N.Y.style,in the White House.
Scott, because the republicans will eat him alive, thats why.
Why are we seeing day after day a bias against Obama especially when the piece is written by DOMENICO?
I have in the past shown Domenico his mistakes and to his credit corrected them. However, he still continues the negative slant coverage on Obama and it becomes annoying to go after his misinformations every day.

It will be nice to hear from NBC Political Director Chuck Todd about this. Is this a free wheeling enterprise where reporters inflate theier favorite candidate image(Hillary for Domenico) and misinform on other candiates(again Domenico example, initial reporting on the Flag Pin on Obama-where he later changed the title and the content of the piece after our outrage). How long is this going to continue Chuck?
"Although Obama has suggested in recent days that Clinton should do more to push for the release of archival documents from her time as first lady, he defended his own lack of a document retention procedure from his Illinois Senate days, saying he had a staff of just one. ‘Whatever remaining documents that I have are inevitably incomplete and then the question is going to be where's this, where's that,’ he said. ‘Once I start heading down that road, then it puts me in a position that could end up being misleading.’”

Let me get this straight, Obama pushed Clinton to release her record as First Lady but doesn't want to release his own record?????
A response to: 'Sen. Clinton and others, they've been fighting some of the same fights since the '60s, and it makes it very difficult for them to bring the country together to get things done.'"

who knew that the fight for equal rights, fairness and equal treatment under the law had an expiration date?

http://bbsnews.net/article.php/200711081034281

I actually don't believe you think that Barack is playing the age card.  You have got to be kidding, this sounds like a Hillary attack - which was the same. There were certain politics that are associated from that era and the Clintons were well known for that type of politicing. Just recently she was put on the cover of a popular political magazine (can't remember the name right now) and the interviewer had to say she came away with Hillary still working under the same kind of politics as she and Bill were working under during their day. I don't believe Barack Obama would make a statement with such little depth as you speak of, Barack is quite aware of what he speaks about. Within Barack statement - Change, that is his message. Also, just because Barack is younger does not mean he just jumped off the boat yesterday...He realizes what Barack Obama wants to do for this country and it certainly not the same as the last upteen years. I just cannot see a whole lot of change with Hillary and Bill by her side. Note: Barack is almost 50 himself.  
Ana, excellent question... that the Obama folks just don't want to hear.
Just vote democratic on election day.
America is doomed. Someone must have peed in the gene pool.

While fascists control our government and just about every facet of our lives, the Hitler Youth, walking in lockstep, argue about who did or did not leave a tip, and about which fascist is more preferable. It is quite clear to me that America is about ready to implode from its own stupidity.

Good riddance. Maybe the next lizards that crawl out of the slime will produce more intelligent offspring. Even a potted plant would be an improvement.
carrie , did not mean for you to take my post as an insult . dont know what makes you say that when my opinion was to the general public . might want to read it again .
My vision is exquisitely clear. Hillary Clinton will be our next president. This is absolute.
J-

It's one of MANY articles about Barack's statements, and as one of those '60's people, I am (I believe justifiably) ticked off.
Check out Tom Brokaw on last night's, "Countdown".
Who said that Obama fails to grasp that if not for those boomers and their battles for social justice, there wouldn't be a Barack Obama candidacy.

Sorry if you feel the source is not up to my usual standards, but with the big story here today concerning whether or not some waitress go tipped, it would seem that I am not alone.
I do appreciate being held to a standard though.  

Van

"Ana, excellent question... that the Obama folks just don't want to hear."

G (Sent Friday, November 09, 2007 1:13 PM)

Here is the difference: Clinton's records are complete. They are in the possession of the archives. As First Lady, she had a (virtually) limitless group of staffers to take care of all her papers. The records are complete; they just aren't being released.

As a state senator, Obama had a staff of one person. One person to handle all of his records. What he is saying is that if people look through his records, there are going to be lots of things missing. One person can't keep up with all of that.

One more key difference: Clinton keeps saying that she is the more experienced candidate. She touts her time as First Lady as a great part of that experience. If we can't see her records to see what she did as First Lady, why should we believe her? Obama's record as a state senator is available in his voting record, etc. There is far less to learn from his incomplete records than there is from Clinton's complete records.
ana and g , i would refer you to shadows first post and mine their after ,and you will see how misinformed you are and late to the argument . Might want to get schooled in political procedure.
Yo Psychic M., I love ya babe. Ya girl is going down, but I love ya nonetheless. Peace. KO
Mary,

Hillary will be next president in your dream...I am democrate but will never vote for her. If she will be democrate candidte then democrate will loose 5 votes to republican
vanreuter, NY NY (Sent Friday, November 09, 2007 1:35 PM)

Van,

I actually hadn't heard about these statements. I'm assuming the following statement is the one in question:

"'Sen. Clinton and others, they've been fighting some of the same fights since the '60s, and it makes it very difficult for them to bring the country together to get things done.'"

If this is the statement that has everyone pissed, then I don't really understand. I don't see how this means that he thinks "the fight for equal rights, fairness and equal treatment under the law had an expiration date". His statment may be poorly worded, but only if you take it without regard to anything he stands for should it anger anyone. This is what I get from the statement:

If you are fighting (viciously) for a certain thing against the same group of people for 40 years, it isn't likely that becoming president will all of the sudden bring everyone together to make it happen. On the other hand, if you are someone who hasn't been fighting with this group for 40 years, and actually has a reputation for working WITH this group to accomplish things, it seems much more likely that this person will be able to get things done.

I think that is his argument. If there are other statemtents out there, then I reserve the right to amend my position. But until then, I am simply not convinced that this sole statement means he thinks that the "fight" is over.
Carrie can you please read shadows post . And would you people quit trying to grasp at straws because your candidate is not forcomming . As for as being transparent if you are trying to compare obama in any way to clinton ,you ethier dont know any thing about whats been going on in politics the last ten years or just being lead like sheep ;.
ki houston (Sent Friday, November 09, 2007 11:41 AM)


That was to the general public?  Funny, I see my name right there, right before you accuse me of grasping at straws.  Hm.  Maybe YOU should go back and read it again.
Carrie, I think that a candidate is supposed to keep their campaign and professional staff separate.  Anybody feel free to correct me if I am wrong.  I think that I actually remember Clinton getting into trouble awhile ago for sending campaign memos from her Senate office or through her Senate staff or something of the related.  That girl seems to have a knack for trouble.
--NSMSNBC (Sent Friday, November 09, 2007 11:58 AM)

Then have his campaign staff do it.  We are talking about his records from when he was in the ILLINOIS state legislature, not the US Senate.  He is talking about his records being incomplete because he only had one staffer during that time.  Well, send in a staffer and get them sorted out now.  Doesn't have to be someone on his Senate staff.  
Shadow - This is what he said: ‘Whatever remaining documents that I have are inevitably incomplete and then the question is going to be where's this, where's that,’ he said. ‘Once I start heading down that road, then it puts me in a position that could end up being misleading.’

That, to me, sounds like he is not going to release them at all.  There is not one indication in that statement that he intends to release a damn thing.  Do you see any?
Carrie,

Why are you all hyped up today. Dang! you must have just finished talking to Hillary. IS she doing okay with her cold?
  Go to DAILY KOS for some enlightening info on all candidates.But please realize that if the country's direction does not change,we will fall just as Rome before us.End this senseless,illegal slaughter.
Bee:  I wouldn't call it hyped up.  More like fed up.  


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