A capable leader can communicate difficult issues to the public.  A lot of times, the polls reflect what people don't understand and what they fear.

Let me state a few axioms:
1)No ands ifs or buts, the borders must be tightened and immigration must be conducted with consistant and legal principles.  We need more border patrol and we need effective policy in returning 'new' illegals back to their homeland with penalties that will be applied to their future plans for immigration.  Tight borders are important for security (terrorists can easy penetrate a porous border) and in order to protect our labor market.  

2) Laws against employers who hire undocumented workers should carry stiff penalties and these laws must be strongly enforced.  If a job is not available the illegals will simply not come.  A proposal has been made to set up a federal data bank as a clearing house for employers to check the legality of prospective employees and this will take the onus off of the employer.  American consumers must be aware that such tough restrictions will raise food and housing costs by about 30%.  Personally, I am prepared to pay this price in order to secure our borders - make us safer, protect our labor force and prevent the development of a slave labor class.

Now for my opinion:

Modified drivers licenses should be provided as non-breeder documents.  They will never be able to be used to legitamize the undocumented worker.  They will not be able to be used for ID to board planes. They will not provide sufficient ID for illegals to vote.  They will give us a mechanism by which we can keep track of these people.  Having these licenses will protect Americans and those here legally from the consequences of uninsured drivers and require that the illegal alien driver receive adequate training before receiving the license.  

Look, they drive anyway, whether you grant them the priveledge or not, and this is a way to keep a handle on a dangerous situation.  Granting these modified licenses will also help in discouraging illegals from coming to this country as having one of these licenses will be a way that employers will be aware of their status (preventing their employment).

Shipping people back (12 million of them) is immoral and untenable.  Families will be split and we will become entangled in an expensive (Iraq-like) hornets' nest).  Encouraging illegals to return to their native lands (by enforcing existing laws) in order for them to legally apply for immigration, is both moral and manageable.   These 'non-breeder document' driver's licenses seem like common sense and as said, they provide a way to get a handle on a seemingly insolvable problem.

Once again it's always easy to identify a problem but hysterical, knee-jerk reactions are not only illogical but unworkable.  Naturally, the fear mongers will capitalize on a problem like this working up everyone's xenophobia to the max.

Ironically, this proposal by Governor Spitzer should not be looked at as a 'problem' for the Democrats.  It is an opening to begin a dialogue about creative solutions for difficult problems.  The Tom Tancredo 'neaderthal' method is jingoistic and can't be accomplished in America.  Governor Spitzer must rise above the fray and take the time to clearly explain his points.  The candidates need to either support or not support the idea.  And I admit that there are defensible points that both sides can make.  But the candidates can't nuance us to death and take both positions.  Ideally, if they don't support the proposal, they might be able to offer an alternative, well-reasoned response.
Obama '08

Interesting.  MSNBC seems to be advocating that candidates base their positions on what the polls say, not on what they actually believe.  Hm.  I thought that is what the candidates were NOT supposed to do?

Carrie, Eastern Iowa (Sent Tuesday, November 13, 2007 12:48 PM)


Carrie--The candidates are supposed to base their positions on 'what is right' whether the polls agree or disagree with that position is irrelevant.  Then how does the candidate know what is the right position?  My advice would do whatever NSMSNBC says ...     :  )

"Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the States administer driver's licenses, so it is pointless to ask a presidential candidate what they think about it."

Nuanced, I see nothing wrong with asking that.  After all, these candidates are voters just like us, so we do deserve to know what they think.

We need federal immigration reform, but every day that it's not in effect, the states have every right to protect their citizens on public roads.  That's an easy, simple argument, and when put like that, will sway a majority of Americans - but it must be put clearly and succinctly, and without any waffling.  Hillary is not up to this.  Obama is.  
Shadow, Hamden, CT (Sent Tuesday, November 13, 2007 1:17 PM)


Shadow,

What makes you think Obama is? Lets read this (if MSM allows us to share all facts of the story) on the question of illegal drives license:

Hillary: I think it makes a lot of sense but I wouldnt advise all states to go it. We need comprehensive immigration reform to avoid such situations.

Obama: Yes, I favor giving illegal drival licenses.

---
I know Obama also favors comprehensive immi reform but i am just quoting from the debate.

So Shadow, why tell lies and smear other candidates? Is that Politics of Deception on your part?

Um, what?

The entire week's story has been about how Clinton gave a waffling answer at the debate on driver's licenses, and how Obama gave a straight answer in contrast.  Where have you been?  It's the only debate answer of Clinton's the media gave any real scrutiny to since the race began.

And why do I need the Politics of Any Slogan Starting With Capital Letters?  I'm an independent, undecided voter.  Given your reactionary response, I doubt the same is true of you, despite your handle.

Mitchell Feldman,

So who do you think should pick up the tab for training these illegals to drive?  In California our teenagers have to pay for a Driver's Training course before they can apply for a driver's license, it comes out of their own pockets, not the governments.  Do you really think we American Citizens should have to foot the bill and pay to teach these illegals how to drive, I say NO!  This is just nuts.  These illegal criminals need to all be deported.  We need to have a National Deportation Day, and send them all home if they are here illegally period.  There isn't a day that doesn't go by here in California without some illegal gang bangers doing harm to others, or getting paid under the table, and the employer is not paying taxes for these illegals or workers comp insurance, and yet honest businesses like the one I work for pays through the ass for all of it, and it is getting old.  It is not fair and a majority of Americans are tired of it.  I am voting and supporting Ron Paul, he is the only true choice.

RonPaul2008.com

Tess

"Jane:  Did I say anything at all about Hillary Clinton in my post?  Let me answer that - NO.  I will thank you to refrain from making insulting assumptions on me based on comments that I never even made.  

My point, because you clearly need me to spell it out for you, is that there is all this emphasis on how candidates should follow their beliefs and not the polls, and there is MSNBC saying that the candidates need to pay attention to this item in the polls.  THAT was my point.  Not about what Hillary is/was doing, or what any other candidate is/was doing.  

It's not ALL about Hillary, you know.

Carrie, Eastern Iowa"

Carrie, take a look at the MSNBC post you were responding to, it was telling Hillary Clinton to take note. The post was about Hillary, and how polling showed she was on the wrong side. You criticized MSNBC for taking the position that candidate's should base their positions on polls.

I agree candidates should have actual beliefs, take stands on positions, and stand by them. Which is why I will not support Hillary on January 3rd, and will reluctantly vote for her if she's the nominee, because Hillary doesn't have the guts to tell us what she really believes, or doesn't have any real beliefs. Neither possibility is acceptable!

Was your comment a general comment? Would you have responded and criticized MSNBC if the post was not about Hillary? If you claim you would have defended Obama if the post was about him, I'm sorry given posts of yours over the last several months I doubt any one would believe that!

You are a Hillary Clinton apologist, that's your right , but don't freak out when your defense of Hillary is called out. Or go ahead and freak out, that's your right.

We both know Hillary normally polls everything to death. We both know that she tried to straddle both sides of the license question during the 10/30 debate. I don't know which answer she gave that you agreed with, Frankly I agreed with her first response. My problem with Hillary is I don't think she has any real beliefs, any issue is expendable.

Every illegal immigrant that is granted amnesty, automatically becomes a MINORITY. Can we afford more?

Jane...pay more attention.  Seriously, the selective memories of people on this blog are pretty ridiculous.

Carrie, Eastern Iowa

You've got my attention, I'll try to pay attention, I'll even drink an extra cup of coffee, if you would be so kind and tell me what I missed.

1. Was the MSNBC post you responded to about Hillary Clinton's need to "take note of polls"? A yes or no will do.

2. Did you criticize MSNBC for telling candidates to base their views on polls? Again a yes or no will do.

3. Have you repeatedly defended Hillary since at least August (possibly longer, I didn't discover first read until then)? Again a yes or no will do.

4. Have you ever written anything critical about Hillary on First read? Again a yes or no will do.

5. Are you aware, or do you agree that the Clinton administration took more polls on more issue than any prior President? Again a yes or no will do.

6. Are you actually claiming that Hillary is not poll driven, and has not, and does not continue to poll positions prior to releasing policy statements? Again a yes or no will do.

7. This will require more than a yes or no, but I have faith you can answer it. How specifically did I misrepresent of your views?

8.This will also require more than a yes or no, but you can handle it. What specifically are you referring to regarding, "the selective memories of people on this blog are pretty ridiculous"? Please enlighten me, and the rest of us without your stellar memory.

Carrie of Eastern Iowa, I don't disagree that candidate's should have actual opinions on most issues. I don't care if they have an opinion on who they want to win the World Series, as they were asked in the 9/26 Dartmouth debate, or many other minor "issues". But I do think that a candidate should have an opinion on important issues that is consistent, and it should not change because polls show support for their position has declined to under 50%. However, I also don't think a person should never change a stated position after new facts are presented that cause them to realize that their original position is wrong. My problem with your criticism of MSNBC for telling HILLARY to take note of polls against the drivers license issue, isn't because I disagree with you that poll driven politics is bad, it is because the candidate you defend at every turn, despite claiming you are undecided, is known for being poll driven.

Lee Holmes [[Houston: To put plainly,you are full of it. Indeed,the healthcare and infrastructure crisis IS being driven by illegal immigration to a large degree.]]

As usual, Holmes posts a lot of drivel he claims come from "sources" without actually quoting or citing any actual reference documents.

The health care crisis is being driven in large part by insurance companies cancelling the insurance policies of American CITIZENS who experience expensive illnesses and because American CITIZENS cannot afford to insure themselves if they lose their jobs. Legal aliens may drive up the cost of emergency room care. Except for thos who are left to die on the emergency room floor or a hospital hallway.

[[The idea that the need to get hold of these problems ,is based in ''racism''and ''xenophobia''is crap ]]

The real know-nothings spewing crap are idiots like Lou Dobbs who spread the vicious rumor that illegal Mexican immigrants were causing a leprosy epidemic in the United States. That was real crap, but Holmes would probably swallow it gladly. Or do you have a source for this dread epidemic from a xenophobe web site?

TO ALL THOSE AGAINST DRIVERS LICENSE ISSUED TO IMMMIGRANT AND AGAINST IMMIGRANTS PERIOD::


its beacause of ppl like yall this country is having so much chaos on this perticular subject,I mean what is soo wrong with issuing these ppl  DRIVERS LICENSE!!!! come on immigrant or legal any one can be a threat if what you ppl are trying to insinuate is that an immigrant with a license can be much more dangerous than a legal person with one..how stupid can you get?? This whole license thing has become such a big deal when it really shouldnt be..they should be worrying on how we can work on helping the immigrants who have been in this country living decently, trying to provide for their families. They make all immigrants sound like criminals and that is soo unfair because alot of these ppl are decent honest HARD WORKING ppl who are only here to provide a better life for their loved ones. No one should take that away from them. They pay taxes just like the rest of us, they pay bills just like we all do. How come the goverment doesnt complain then?? Alot of their children if  not most are CITIZENS!!!! but the goverment does not seem to care about that..they rather put these little innocent lives thru HELL by taking away their providers, THEIR LOVED ONES!!! I just hope that when the elections do come the right choices are made by who ever is elected.. I pray that this country will have the sense enough to realize that these immigrants are a large percentage of our population, and therefor they are a huge part of our economy, and if you decide to deport them all our country will be impacted as well.

all i want to to these people that who is goin to do the low level labour ARE YOU ? and  do u think that if these people are  deported the infrastructure of the country will be in the same level that it is now. i am not supporting the illegal immigrants but i guess deporting them is not a good idea ....coz that will not only affect them but the country too.

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