Hillary's consistent non-answers (updated)

Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2007 12:05 PM by Mark Murray

From NBC's Mark Murray and NBC/NJ's Athena Jones

About a week ago, we chronicled all of Clinton's responses to the drivers'-licenses-for-illegal-immigrants issue, and we concluded that Clinton was actually consistent in her answer -- but also consistently not answering the question. That consistency seemed to change yesterday.

Here's a timeline of what she has said on the matter.

October 16 editorial meeting with the Nashua Telegraph
"I hate to see any state being pushed into trying to take this into their own hands because the federal government has failed. So I know exactly what Governor Spitzer is trying to do and it makes a lot of sense, because he's trying to get people out of the shadows, come forward and we'll give you this license – but without a federal policy in effect people will come forward and they could get picked up by ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) tomorrow. This can't work state by state – it has to be looked at comprehensively."

October 30 MSNBC debate
RUSSERT: Senator Clinton, Governor of New York Eliot Spitzer has proposed giving driver's licenses to illegal immigrants. [You] told the Nashua, New Hampshire, Editorial Board it makes a lot of sense. Why does it make a lot of sense to give an illegal immigrant a driver's license?
CLINTON: Well, what Governor Spitzer is trying to do is fill the vacuum left by the failure of this administration to bring about comprehensive immigration reform. We know in New York we have several million at any one time who are in New York illegally. They are undocumented workers. They are driving on our roads. The possibility of them having an accident that harms themselves or others is just a matter of the odds. It's probability. So what Governor Spitzer is trying to do is to fill the vacuum. I believe we need to get back to comprehensive immigration reform because no state, no matter how well intentioned, can fill this gap. There needs to be federal action on immigration reform.

Then moments later at the debate…
DODD: This is a privilege. And, look, I'm as forthright and progressive on immigration policy as anyone here. But we're dealing with a serious problem here, we need to have people come forward. The idea that we're going to extend this privilege here of a driver's license I think is troublesome, and I think the American people are reacting to it…
CLINTON: Well, I just want to add, I did not say that it should be done, but I certainly recognize why Governor Spitzer is trying to do...

And then…
RUSSERT: Senator Clinton, I just want to make sure of what I heard. Do you, the New York senator, Hillary Clinton, support the New York governor's plan to give illegal immigrants a driver's license? You told the New Hampshire paper that it made a lot of sense. Do you support his plan?
CLINTON: You know, Tim, this is where everybody plays "gotcha." It makes a lot of sense. What is the governor supposed to do? He is dealing with a serious problems. We have failed. And George Bush has failed. Do I think this is the best thing for any governor to do? No. But do I understand the sense of real desperation, trying to get a handle on this? Remember, in New York, we want to know who's in New York. We want people to come out of the shadows.

October 31 statement from the campaign
“Senator Clinton supports governors like Governor Spitzer who believe they need such a measure to deal with the crisis caused by this administration’s failure to pass comprehensive immigration reform.”

The New York Times reported on that statement:
“Mrs. Clinton’s aides said her statement Wednesday expressing general support for Mr. Spitzer’s plan was intended to signal that she broadly supported his goal of granting driver’s licenses to illegal immigrants. But they said she had not studied — and was not endorsing — any specific plan.”

On November 2, per the Associated Press:
Clinton said she generally supported efforts by New York Gov. Eliot Spitzer and others who have tried to address public safety questions in absence of federal immigration reform. Last weekend, Spitzer announced a plan backed by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security to give licenses with limited privileges to some undocumented workers. "I don't know all the details," Clinton said, adding that the issue was going to be hard to resolve. "We've had, now, seven years of an administration that saw things in black and white, yes and no, up and down. I think it's time we actually had a conversation with the American people," she said.

Clinton campaigning in Clinton, IA on November 4
"I wasn't as clear as I should have been the other night. I have had a number of occasions where I have spoken to it and I believe clarified it, but I'd be happy to do it again. I believe in comprehensive immigration reform and I have been in favor of that for years. I have signed onto bills. I have voted for provisions and I think it is the only answer for our country."

"Unfortunately, because the Bush administration has failed and as has the Congress, the federal government as a whole to bring about comprehensive immigration reform, governors are left holding the bag. They're the ones having to deal with the security issues, the safety of their roads and so much else. Therefore, I broadly support what governors like Eliot Spitzer are trying to do. I don't pretend to know the details. That's up to the governor and the legislature to try to work out. But I think that it's understandable that states are trying to fill a vacuum left by the failures of the federal government."

November 6 interview with CNN's Candy Crowley
CROWLEY: If I wrote a story that said: "Absent a broad illegal immigration bill, Hillary Clinton agrees about giving driver's licenses to illegal immigrants," is that correct?
CLINTON: No. What I have said is that I support what governors are trying to do. And governors are on the front lines because of the failures to get comprehensive immigration reform. There are already eight states that issue driver's licenses without any verification of citizenship. That is a decision that the governors and legislatures and the people of those states have made. I understand…
CROWLEY: But you see why people think…
CLINTON: Well, but you know, Candy…
CROWLEY: … that you are not answering the question.
CLINTON: Well, but you know, Candy, well, but I think that if you go back and look at the complexity of this issue, I don’t think a lot of these hard questions lend themselves to raising your hand. And I know that that’s easier in a 30 second context to try to do. I think the fact that governors are being forced into this position is really unfortunate. They should not be making immigration policy. The federal government should be making immigration policy and that’s what I’m going to try to do as president again and I do not believe that in the context of federal immigration reform that that would be an issue that governors would have to contend with.
CROWLEY: So it’s – I know it’s not a yes or no question to you but you’ve had some time here and the problem is that people can’t quite get a hold of is for a governor at this time, do you think it’s a good idea for them to offer drivers’ licenses to illegal immigrants?
CLINTON: It depends upon what state they’re in. It depends upon what they think the risks are. You know. A governor of New York that has a lot of immigrants, many of whom we know are not their legally, has to worry about security. A governor of another state where that’s not a problem doesn’t. This issue has been so politicized and I understand that because you can score points. You can score all kinds of political demagogic points but the fact is if we don’t have comprehensive immigration reform, which for me includes toughening the borders, much harder sanctions on employers, doing more to help local communities that are stuck with the bill on all kinds of services. And bringing immigrants out of the shadows.

And if they ever committed a crime where they came from or here, immediately deport them. But for the others, have a tough path to earned legalization. Pay back taxes. Pay fines. Learn English. Wait in line. And once you got somebody on the record registered, deported the criminals, instead they had to keep on the right side of the law, keep making a living and do all of these other things I’ve outlined, that would be the appropriate time to give them some kind of license. But I understand – I’m not going to be second guessing governors who have to do the hard work of figuring out what’s best for their state.

November 14 statement
I support Governor Spitzer's decision today to withdraw his proposal. His difficult job is made that much harder by the failure of the Congress and the White House to pass comprehensive immigration reform. As President, I will not support drivers' licenses for undocumented people and will press for comprehensive immigration reform that deals with all of the issues around illegal immigration including border security and fixing our broken system.

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Comments

Was everyone asleep through the Clinton years? Or have our morals slipped away? Remember all the controversy and inuendo that "stuck" to both Clinton's. She couldn't even tell her husband was having an affair. How can anyone be shocked when she waffles on any given subject. I am terrified to think that she may win in the polls!

Lisa Atk, Norwich (Sent Thursday, November 15, 2007 2:50 PM)

"BRING IT ON""DEAD OR ALIVE" serria is that more concice did it mean anything did they follow through ,WORDS dont mean a thing.Ever hear of a wolf in sheeps wool If all it takes to fool you are words then the checks in the mail ,I will reaspect you in the morning,and.....Mission accomplished.

kenn (Sent Thursday, November 15, 2007 2:53 PM)

Face it people....she hasn't told the truth about what she really thinks about anything,anytime!

K.Greenfield, Maple Valley ,WA (Sent Thursday, November 15, 2007 2:56 PM)

WWWWWWHHHHAATTTTT a question about healthcare oh my no one would have ever asked a president that ,or what about the economy,or What will you do about the war that never seems to end

kenn (Sent Thursday, November 15, 2007 2:58 PM)

The Clinton's are the politics of the past. It's nightmarish to imagine these two manipulative low lifes back in the White House

American Voter (Sent Thursday, November 15, 2007 3:02 PM)

No one is attacking Hillary. It is just really funny at how much time MSM is spending trying to explain her missteps to the voters. This is a long political season and we should be moving on to other important issues regarding these candidates.

Hillary and Bill played the gender card and don't beat up on my wife card. So maybe they are shining too much light on the situation themselves without anyone else saying anything.

Rosemary, California (Sent Thursday, November 15, 2007 3:05 PM)

Desperate, Overland Park Kansas
Your name says it all!
Neither Obama nor Edwards has publicly stated what their position on maintaining diplomatic relations with post war Iraq is.
They haven't stated if, in ending the war, they would unilaterally withdraw all troops, or if they would leave a security force behind for American interests, such as embasies and consulates.
As far as using emotions and heresay to in place of logic and critical thought, please look no farther than the end of your own nose.
It's clear you haven't a clue what either Obama and/or Edwards stand for. Otherwise you'd have answered the question instead of telling me to go check the website.
Your hatred of Hillary, and probably all woman for that matter, has obstructed your ability to think rationally.
Edwards and Obama are not the answer. They aren't going to save you, and they sure aren't going to save this country.
The American Public already said "NO" to one of them, and the other parrots the Neo-Con mantra of the '90's'
We don't need someone who tells us it's bad to be rich, but lives in a house that is larger than some small towns in this country!
...and we sure as hell don't need another cocaine addict in the White House.
All Obama and Edwards are doing, or would do is to help The GOP keep the White House.
...and I will vote REPUBLICAN if either gets the nomination.

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY (Sent Thursday, November 15, 2007 3:06 PM)

Hillary has been consistant...she has consistantly not answered the question. Can't get anymore consistant than that. This is the story and it does have legs. Voters want honesty above all else. The voters don't give a hoot about the question, they care about the answer. A simple yes or no would have sastified most people and life would go on. We all know it's a complicated issue, it just shouldn't be a complicated answer. Do you agree with it...yes or no. Maybe Hillary could plant a better (and easier) question next time.

Al, KS (Sent Thursday, November 15, 2007 3:07 PM)

The only reason I got my drivers license is to rub it in the faces of illegal immigrants who couldn't. Now if they get licenses, then it makes my license meaningless. Don't you people see? If you let illegals get drivers licenses, then they'll want marriage licenses too. It's a slippery slope! We need to protect the sanctity of drivers licenses. I propose a Constitutional Ammendment defining "driving" as between an American man and a SUV.

Asad (Sent Thursday, November 15, 2007 3:12 PM)

Look whose wearing John Kerry's FLIP-FLOPS now...The answers (or lack of I should say) you would expect from a Clinton...I'm still trying to understand why she thinks she is qualified???...If she were not married to Bill, she would not be a Senator or a Presidential candidate...but a sleeze lawyer in Little Rock!

Anybody But Hillary (Sent Thursday, November 15, 2007 3:12 PM)

SHE HAS BUGS IN HER HAIR you all remind me of that movie hairspray.Pettiness is awesome along with americas hatred of women with power whats amatter you felling small,personel attacks anything but hilliary an awesome day is coming when you all eat every word and start your day pledging to the flag with her at the helm HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHQAHAHAHAHAH

kenn (Sent Thursday, November 15, 2007 3:13 PM)

You Hillarophiles just slay me. Face it, Hillary did not give a cogent answer on DL's because she did not want to commit to one side or the other. Dodd committed to being against the proposal and Obama committed to being for it. Actually both sides have defensible points but it seems to me (and I support the proposal even though I think that it is moot. I doubt any illegals would step forward, and compromise their annonymity, in order to obtain one - they're already breaking the law so why would they identify themselves in order to get these non-breeder licenses, to what value?) that most people don't take the time to understand what Gov. Spitzer (as other governors have done) was trying to accomplish - and it has nothing to do with amnesty like actions. But what do you expect? Most people have knee-jerk reactions to things and don't take the time to think things through. Anyway, which ever side you are on and believe me, this issue won't go away just because Governor Spitzer has withdrawn the proposal at this time, Hillary must be faulted for her indecisiveness. Nuance is one thing but bu**sh*t is another. If anyone here thinks that Hillary took an honest position on the issue then I have a bridge that I'd like to sell you.

And BTW J. Merle Stanley (who hears just what he wants to hear) Obama has proposed having all combat troops out of Iraq in 18 months by removing
1-1 and 1/2 brigades per month. Everyone who is truly against this war (excluding those who authorized the original use of force in October 2002, then ceded Congressional oversight to the cowboy president soon after and then voted to authorize the use of force against the Iranian Revolutionary Guard in 2007 - again, naively believing that they could trust Bush/Cheney) realizes that the extraction of our troops from this hell hole, will be difficult and result in the loss of still more US service people. Obama has said "we must be as careful getting out as we were careless getting in". So a plan to remove our troops should be exercised with caution.

Obama also proposes concentrating our military efforts against Al Qaeda in Pakistan and Afghanistan, where the scum live. It will be difficult but we must get them at the nidus. He also proposes direct negotiations with the Iranians and the Syrians who could help (as Iran had offered in 2001) to control the conflict. So, yes, Obama has very specific proposals. J. Merle Stanley, do you listen to the debates or read the position papers? Or, are you too busy defending her royal highness and her entitled crown?
Obama '08

Mitchell Feldman, Vestal, NY (Sent Thursday, November 15, 2007 3:17 PM)

PJ: gee how sad our current "leader" is incapable of such rational behavior

Very true. Good thing Hillary did all that wonderful and thoughtful thinking prior to voting FOR the Iraq war.

You liberals kill me. You can't see that Hillary is a bogus as a 3 dollar bill, even when it's right in front of your nose.

Lynn Sweet, Ft. Wayne IN (Sent Thursday, November 15, 2007 3:34 PM)

If 911 didn't happen, you would have seen a very moderate White House under GWB. He was forced into making a mistake that most people at the time agreed was the way to go. Hindsight is very helpful when it doesn't go the way we hope. But once we make the mistake it often dictates that you have to follow through to the best outcome that can happen.
A real politician is a rare breed and when they do pop up occasionally like GWB or Hillary, they polarize the populus to no end. Just for the sake of peace on the Blogs, we should have a moderate in the White House for 8 years. Something just may get done that will benefit the world. The only moderate I see is Rudy. He can work both sides of the aisle as he is not so much the politician as he is a Manager of conditions. Hilary could never be that because you would never know where she is going next.

Delmar Fairchild, Barron, WI (Sent Thursday, November 15, 2007 3:35 PM)

that is, she was for drivers lienses for illegals after she was against it, but prior to her being for it. Better wake up, Hillary. We are not the same people who voted for Bill.

Mary Lester (Sent Thursday, November 15, 2007 3:40 PM)

Woops J Merle you totally proved my point. Instead of actually going and looking at what Obama has to say and has said in debates, you just say no and try and use personal attacks against me and against Edwards and Obama. Look back at your comment, "your name means...blah blah blah", "he's rich so he can't help the poor," "he's a cocaine addict." I'm beginning to think that you are either a neo-con plant or that you get all of your information from Fox News and that you believe it word for word. Not to mention the fact you parrot their style of ad hominem attacks vs. reasoned debate.
My point was you are ignorant of other candidates positions and lazy. You couldn't even go to his website to get the answer to what you claim he doesn't have an answer for. Well here you go:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/iraq/
Do you think that wittle ole j merle could take the link and posty wost it up in his bwoser...awww does he need somebody to do it for him. There's your answer dork.
I don't hate women because I'm not a HRC fan. Hell I'll vote for her if she wins, but if we have a choice why not go with a person of substance who isn't afraid to take the neo-cons on (Edwards) or who is charismatic enough to bring the country together (Obama). Read up. Try to be a little less ignorant next time.

Desperate, Overland Park Kansas (Sent Thursday, November 15, 2007 3:52 PM)

This is NOT a Democrat, Republican, Independent issue. It's an American Issue.

Illegal Aliens and Immigration is NOT the same thing. 80% of the American people want an end to anarchy!

Illegal aliens are criminals, those who hire them are criminals and those who aid-and-abet them are criminals.

Illegal aliens in America have NO rights. We are required by law to arrest and prosecute, deport them. (Title 8 U.S. Code) To report illegal aliens call the DHS National Hotline 1 866 DHS 2ICE. (1-866-347-2523)

No, matter your political party affiliation, and setting aside your thoughts on issues. We all need to remember what it is to be an American Citizen. We need to make sure our elected representatives obey their Oath of Office and keep their Oath of Allegiance. See http://tinyurl.com/2znnvl Know whom you are voting for.

Dr Coles, Los Angeles, CA (Sent Thursday, November 15, 2007 3:55 PM)

Question for all of the Congress...why haven't you as a whole done anything about immagration.?..If you all were actually working together..as you were elected to do many of the problems of this great nation would be handled properly instead of what we now have. Which does not seem to be much.

E.Stallings (Sent Thursday, November 15, 2007 3:56 PM)

Hillary iis a disaster for our country. Multiply that by bill and we are prey for the terroists--including China. What about all the illegal money they took in?
They have been crooks for years,All they want is power and the people be damned.Why don't they understand what "illegal" means, if they're so smart??

Elaine Chandler Hixton, Wi. (Sent Thursday, November 15, 2007 3:58 PM)

Im a legal alien and I have a licence I did not know I can vote or get an american passport is that how easy your officials are scamed maybe you want to replace your idiots at the office of the passports and voting.Im waiting for an explanation

kenn (Sent Thursday, November 15, 2007 4:00 PM)

"You liberals kill me. You can't see that Hillary is a bogus as a 3 dollar bill, even when it's right in front of your nose. "

You neocons are all too predictable. You've been using a 3 dollar bill for legal tender since 2000, but NOW you're all concerned with counterfeiting.

Lee in CA (Sent Thursday, November 15, 2007 4:07 PM)

Paraphrasing the Slick-mistress: The federal government has failed to produce a consistent policy, BUT some states need to address this differently than other states - so I guess since that New York has to address the issue differently than say South Dakota the federal government SHOULDN'T or COULDN'T have produced a consistent policy! Why anyone would vote for someone whose entire campaign is like this boggles the mind.

Doc Northwoods Wisconsin (Sent Thursday, November 15, 2007 4:08 PM)

"You liberals kill me."

Actually, I believe that it is our conservative Commander-in-Chief that is killing me (figuratively), and killing our troops (literally). I hesitate to think what he might be doing to you, or to the 30% who still approve of his job performance, but I'm guessing there is a lucrative no-bid contract involved.

CitizenJ (Sent Thursday, November 15, 2007 4:26 PM)

"What about Obama and his position on changing royalties paid by mining companies and his Nevada mining lobbyist campaign advisor?"

Obama supported this position before the state lobbyist became part of his group. Oh and btw it has nothing to do with the corporate lobbyists who raid DC for $$$$$ worthe of favors.

By the way is this group of questions planted?

Plant-gate will just not go away.

Yiannis, Baltimore (Sent Thursday, November 15, 2007 4:40 PM)

The idea that Iraq is a ''disaster''no longer holds water. This is a mantra used to keep the mostly [nonserving]troops in line in order to craft Democrat hegemony of two to three branches of government in 09.
The truth is vastly differant. Compton is a true ''disaster''. Fallujah is not. Flint is a ''disaster''. Anbar is not. By every single point on the yardstick,Iraq is beginning to rise. It's oil refinery capacity has now surpassed seven million gallons daily. Not much by any means,but enough to restore consumer goods and services to areas across the once dreaded ''Sunni Triangle'' and this restoration is continuing. Electricity and now water,have reached pre-war levels and the demand for electricity is increasing to record demands unseen during the Baathist reign. Hundreds of thousands of refugees are returning to Iraq. Depending on any given week in the last two months,Los Angeles will get you murdered quicker than a night in Baghdad. Combat troops patrolling the major cities of the Iraqi interior including Baghdad use adjectives such as ''quiet'',''calm'',''many shoppers in the streets'',''still'',and other descriptors of a nation at turning point.
Indeed,even Democrats are now turning the old arguments on their heads. Cast into his usual role as the Senates court jester,Reid can no longer allow that the ''war is lost''. He,and Pelosi,now begin the pound away at the cost of the war,while tandemly denying to Americans the true scope of out of control pork spending which has now ecilpsed that of the Hastert/Frist GOP in its worst year,2006. Billions are being doled out to favoured campaign contributors and constituants with no oversight whatever[and I mean none. Waxman,who has grabbed a bunch of loot for his own district,will conduct no oversight hearings on this waste despite the pleas from the GAO in yesterdays NEWSWEEK article that such spending was ''unsustainable''].
The ''icebergs''that the Democrats are heading for according to liberal journalist David Broder,writing in todays Washington Post,are the foreign policy turnaround of Iraq along with the neo-liberal return to realism and isolationism exactly at the moment when more muscular diplomacy is required,particularly with the nations comprising OPEC,nuclear/nuclear ambition nations such as Iran and Pakistan[where Obama has no clue and Hillary has crafted no meaningful solutions],and African states which are slipping their bridles into all-out war.
The other iceberg is immigration,and here,Democrats find themselves on losing ground on all fronts. Peter Brown,director of QUINNIPAC polling,flatly states that Democrat allegiances to mollycoddling illegals are running directly against the grain of the wishes of the vast majority of Americans. Hillarys ''comprehensive reform'',like Bushs,is mere codespeak for amnesty and Guiliani will be able to use this as a cudgel with which to whip Clinton as the primaries begin to loom. As usual,actions have opposite reactions. Guiliani,still smarting from his Kerlik ties,will be matched by ABC NEWS revelations that several of President Clintons last-minute pardonees have loaded down Hillarys campaign with cash,which,while not illegal,presents her campaign with a patina of further seediness.
It was once a ''shoe-in''for the Democrats. Then it was ''theirs to lose''. Now it becomes a standup slugout with the Democrat ship of state moving headlong towards the iceberg.

Also see: www.military.com MILBLOGS

www.gao.gov The General Accounting Office

www.opensecrets.org The Center for Responsive Politics

www.porkbusters.com PORKBUSTERS[as the name implies,a non-partisan pork watchdog].

www.iraqthemodel.blogspot.com Iraq The Model,opinion and news from Baghdad and Iraq by Iraqi residents.

Lee Holmes (Sent Thursday, November 15, 2007 4:43 PM)

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY: '...We don't need someone who tells us it's bad to be rich, but lives in a house that is larger than some small towns in this country! ...'

You ARE Desparate, Merle !!
Get a grip !

...and we sure as hell don't need another cocaine addict in the White House.

Are things THAT BAD for Team Hillary ?
Sleazy charge by a sleazy campaign !
Is Hillary running a SMEAR CAMPAIGN, Merle ?

All Obama and Edwards are doing, or would do is to help The GOP keep the White House...'

With YOUR HELP ?
Who you voting for is Hillary imploeds ?

...and I will vote REPUBLICAN if either gets the nomination...'

Don;t coming running to real Democrats if we get a Republican in the White House, Merle
If Hillary is nominated, we get a Republican
If Hillsry isn't nominated, you support the Repuclicans !!

GOOD FOR YOU MERLE !!
Clever fellow...
now take your meds...
Rock a bye, rock a bye...
Good boy ...

Sierra, SF (Sent Thursday, November 15, 2007 5:04 PM)

Media is just killing me on this issue already. I do not see flip flopping on the issue at all. How could you as an individual withstand being attacked from left right and center by people standing right next you??!!! She is a strong woman and I hope americans dont make a mistake by getting Mr Opportunist Obama in, dude doesnt have any experience blah!

Abi Lawa, New York, New York (Sent Thursday, November 15, 2007 5:17 PM)

'..you are ignorant of other candidates positions and lazy...'

You're right !!
Merle is ignorant and lazy...

... and now, he's DESPARATE !!
somebody lost his meds...

Sierra, SF (Sent Thursday, November 15, 2007 5:18 PM)

Hey this is me, and I am most certainly not J Merle. Sierra your posts are confusing are you agreeing with me or taunting me?

Desperate, Overland Park Kansas (Sent Thursday, November 15, 2007 5:28 PM)

Also can we spell my name right?

Desperate, Overland Park Kansas (Sent Thursday, November 15, 2007 5:32 PM)

Also can we spell my name right?

Desperate, Overland Park Kansas (Sent Thursday, November 15, 2007 5:32 PM)

Any one issue or an ethics lapse of the Clinton campaign isn't a big deal by itself, but together it makes a pretty dismal narrative.

--NSMSNBC (Sent Thursday, November 15, 2007 5:34 PM)

Someone said in a comment that they could not see where Hillary was flip-flopping, well, she did it on stage during the debate, I heard her. She wasn't quite sure what to say, one minute she said she agreed with the NY Governor, and the next minute when questioned again by other candidates on stage, she changed her answer. She, like her husband Bill will try to wiggle out of any answer they give if they find out it is not the popular one with the American public. They are true politicians, and have absolutely no Integrity, nor do they really say what they think, or believe. If a candidate doesn't have the back bone to say what they believe, they won't deliver on the promises and platforms they run on. I use to be a Democrat, but I have decided to vote for the person and not the party in 2008. I am now officially registered as a Republican so I can vote for Freedom, Liberty, smaller government, a foreign policy that is in line with our Constitution, and federal spending cuts/less taxes. The only Candidate that will do this is Ron Paul and he has my vote and my support.

http://RonPaul2008.com
read up on him if you care about America

Tess, California (Sent Thursday, November 15, 2007 5:53 PM)

It's obvious that Senator Clinton is "stradling the fence" on the immigration issue itself. She supported the Governor when he gave illegal immigrants driver licenses, and she supported him when he took them away. So what side is she on? It just shows that she's trying to play safe on tough issues to try to please both sides when in actuality it makes her look very inconsistent.

Jamel Garrett, Racine, Wisconsin (Sent Thursday, November 15, 2007 6:13 PM)

What's interesting is the Hillary butt sniffers are critical of Bush for bringing us to war, but just ignore the fact the HR Clinton was happy to lead the charge in the Senate at the time. Grow up. HRC is the biggest fake of all the candidates, and that takes a lot of effort.

Lynn Sweet, Ft. Wayne IN (Sent Thursday, November 15, 2007 6:29 PM)

Lee:
Violence in Iraq, although less, is still rife. Levels of IED's are still at >2000/month and although life has improved, according to Iraqi Christian friends of mine (who have relatives in Bahgdad) life is nowhere as good (in terms of staples and fuel) as it was before the war.

Understand, I take nothing away from our brave fighting forces but the surge was not the only or even the main reason for the whatever improvement is to be seen in the region.

The reason for the improvement is because Sunni sheiks decided to oppose the Qaeda. Al Qaeda was too imposing on the relatively secular and less religious Sunni (punishing violators of the Koran with severe, often mutilating punishment) and the Sunni chiefs had, had enough. They still have no love for Americans but are co-operating in order to rid Al Anbar of Qaeda. The real problems with the Shia still remain since an effective federal government has yet to take hold. This lull is only a pause between battles. The impending Civil War can only be avoided if we enter into serious negotiations with the Syrians and Iranians.

The point is that this war was an immoral incursion and that it was planned from Jan. 20, 2001. Sept. 11th only provided an excuse to move forward (no, I'm not a conspiratist and I don't think that the Bush administration was complicit or purposely negligent in allowing the 9/11 catastrophe to occur). Although Saddam Hussein was certainly as evil as is Kim Il Jong, he had already been rendered impotent by the Persian Gulf War and the subsequent implimentation of the no-fly zones.

The fact that data was manipulated and massaged in order to sell (slam dunk) the public on the war was a criminal (and should be an impeachable) offense. The fact that we took our eye off the ball in Tora Bora, if not criminal negligence, smacked of incredible incompetence. Even the removal of Al Qaeda, who were not there at the start of this war, is only the clean-up of one of our unintended consequences of this catastrophic error in foreign policy.

Yes, you can be sure that Iraq will be an issue in the 2008 election and all of the Republican candidates (except for Dr. Paul) continue to support this inane policy and have deluded themselves into thinking that our 'surge' has been the main factor responsible for the improvement. Cause and effect must be better proven.

The ability to prosecute an anti-Iraq campaign will depend on the standard bearer in 2008. If it is Hillary, I fear that the proper case against this war will not be made.

Immigration is an important issue but I can only hope that it is presented fully and without its xenophobic implications. My main concern about porous borders is the threat of terrorism. As far as the influx of immigrant workers is concerned, I have yet to be convinced of the actual effect (good or bad) on the American socio-economic situation. Do these people lower wages across the board? - I suspect yes but have yet to see the data? Do they cost municipalities added social welfare expenditure? maybe but these people also pay federal tax and local sales tax. What affect do this labor have on the cost of housing and food? - again I have no data other than what I know about labor costs, that effect may amount to as much as a 30% decrease in the cost of these items - is the public willing to shoulder these costs?

My belief is that if real efforts at improving border security are made, if present laws preventing the hiring of illegals are enforced (recognizing that the cost of various products will rise), the other issues will lose their import. The onus will certainly be on the Democrats to clearly explain the details of a very complex issue.

My belief is that the Republicans are on the wrong side of every issue but that it will be up to the Democratic standard bearer to make the case for change.
Obama '08

Mitchell Feldman, Vestal, NY (Sent Thursday, November 15, 2007 8:24 PM)

Mitchell: I respectfully disagree.''Cause and effect''have returned the nation to its lowest levels of violence in decades,if we also include Saddams destruction of the Marsh Arabs in 1992 and the gassing of tens of thousands of Kurds during the 1980s. The Surge brought US forces to bear to engage in military-styled diplomacy with the nothern and central sheiks where none would have existed without their presence. The case can now be solidly made that with the withdrawl of US forces,forces that even the ISG is against moving out,there will be untold bloodshed leading into genocide. We now have the lid on. Events will bear out your opinion or mine.
Pass to immigration,and it is Democrats on the wrong side of this issue.[as they are in pork spending,another issue]. Observe the booing that was given at the comments made tonight in Veags surrounding Democrat waffling on this important issue. Every study thus far commisioned,the most recet being the PEW Hispanic Studies Center and the State of California Comptrollers Office,run by Democrats,observes that illegals take in far more in services than they give back in state and federal taxes.[as it now stands,1800$ for every Californian man,woman and child to pay for the cost of illegals].Wage depression is also a studied fact,impacting African Americans the worst. The Tancredos and the Kyls,for better or worse,have laid out a plan that is in synch with American feelings about illegals. It is to Democrats to quit stalling and lay out concrete examples of how THEY would do it.

Lee Holmes (Sent Thursday, November 15, 2007 10:28 PM)

Funny, J.

Do you not think it's strange that YOU have to translate for her? Hmmm
If she needs a translator, then she probably was not clear on where she stood.

Oh yea, I remember... she's against understanding why governors may have to implement giving licenses to illegal, oops, immigrants if there is no immigration reform.

Come on; admit she's a flipper. Ok, I'm just having fun with you, but have to inform you that she is “a-flippin.” Even she had to go back and re-read some of the stuff she said on this to consistently stay inconsistent in not giving a yes or no answer… consistently. lol

Detective Flipper Catcher, Atlanta, GA (Sent Thursday, November 15, 2007 11:31 PM)

If she respects the desperation of Governors, and their desire to do something about illegal immigration, does she also support those Governor's who's states have opted for strict enforcement? What about those states where state and local law enforcement have opted to co-operate with federal immigration and ICE in deporting illegal aliens? Seems to me that Hilary only supports governors whose policies mirror her own agenda and objectives, or those who steadfastly refuse to accept the will of the people who are demanding our borders be secured, and our existing laws enforced.

Ed Weirdness (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 10:05 AM)

OMG! Did someone just assert "Pandering to the general election populus is perpetuating a fraud that exposes our valiant young men and women to utter chaos and mass confusion. GET OUT OF IRAQ!!!!!!!!!!! Now!!!!!!!!! "

The general election population, otherwise known as "we the people" should be the sole guidance for any of our legislators. Its outrageous to even consider otherwise. The only thing worse than the tyranny of the majority, would be the tyranny of the minority. What is a democracy, even a representative democracy such as our, other than "majority rule"? It's truly scary that so many who think the will of the people is of no consequence, or that the views, values and interests of the majority can be usurped for their own "subjective" greater good, also tend to support Hilary.

Ed Weirdness (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 10:14 AM)

Short of rounding up everyone, and forcing them to buy insurance, and then taking them down to the DMV and forcing them to take the test, over and over again, there's no way to assure that everyone will obtain insurance and apply for a license anyway. Nor is there a guarantee that they will reapply when required, or that they will maintaing said coverage. We have laws and penalties that address driving without a license or insurance. The objective should be to reduce the number of marginal drivers or clearly unsafe, unprepared drivers on our roads, not make it easier. I'm skeptical that shareholders in Insurance Companies would think investing in people who are here illegally, and therfor those who have little stake in the community, or in the rule of law, would be a wise investment portfolio. Especially if there were several rapid fire large settlements that resulted from insuring such drivers. It would make better sense to "raise" the penalties for driving without a license or insurance, with mandatory prison sentences and compensation requirements for those involved in accidents. Illegals would of course be forced to serve their time before being deported, and their assets forfeit as compensation for those injured. This was all possible under an executive order from Spitzer, that he chose to force his open borders agenda down the throats of New Yorkers is dispicable. That their Senator was an unmitigated "boob" (pardon the unintended entendra) in dealing with an issue that America's Citizens have clearly, manifestly evidenced opposition to, is an indication of how Senator Clinton might govern.

Ed Weirdness (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 10:31 AM)

If Hilliary has her finger to the wind and is listenting to voters, how come, as a Senator, she has not introduced a tough enforcement and deportation law? That is what poll after poll says Americans want.

Bettybb (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 11:33 PM)

Didn't the Dixie Chics get into the same kind of verbal quagmire? In an interview they said: "We support our troops but not the war". From what I remember they were grilled on this. Diane Sawyer famously asked "How coud you support our troops and not their mission?".

Diane Sawyer similarly should ask Hillary-"How can you support Governors like Spitzer and not their mission on drivers licenses?

Hillary is using the Dixie Chic argument!!!

lee sirio (Sent Saturday, November 17, 2007 4:18 AM)

Mike are you blind

ken calif (Sent Thursday, November 29, 2007 6:47 PM)

merle stanley,

hillary understands the complex issue of immigration
If that is true why cant she articulate that to us < cause she doesnt have a clue

ken calif (Sent Thursday, November 29, 2007 7:03 PM)

hillary is givin big ammo to the repubs, she just dont get it ( well givin her track record on waffle making is no wonder )
Pass me some syrup Hillary, while i hunt for my illegal lic and my madatory health card
she is her own worse enemy, why does she bother to open her mouth ( how do you know Hillary is lying her lips are waffling

ken calif (Sent Thursday, November 29, 2007 7:37 PM)

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