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First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC Political Researcher



Rove as Edwards, Obama strategist?

Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2007 5:49 PM by Domenico Montanaro
Filed Under: , ,

From NBC’s Andy Merten
Since leaving the White House and doing the Sunday morning show circuit, Karl Rove’s take on the 2008 presidential election seems to have changed little. He still believes Hillary Clinton will be the Democratic nominee next year and considers her to be a “fatally flawed” candidate. But he’s upping the ante on the criticism.
 
“I’ve been surprised at how weak Edwards and Obama have been,” Rove told C-SPAN’s Steve Scully today during a live question-and-answer session with students at three different universities across the country. As if to poke at the fire that in the pending Democratic nomination process, he continued, saying, “They’re both going to give her some scares; she’s going to lose some thing along the way, possibly starting with Iowa.”
 
Rove went on to provide a little unsolicited advice for the Obama campaign, saying that the Illinois senator has faltered in creating a strong moment of contrast between himself and his opponents during debates. Citing Clinton’s vague answer regarding the release of White House papers during her tenure as first lady, Rove said Obama has had “a number of occasions like that, where a sharp and clear and respectful contrast really could’ve created a moment.”
 
The former Bush adviser and chief strategist also expressed some surprise with the current GOP field, although he had nothing negative to say about his fellow Republicans. Asked if told six months ago Giuliani would be sitting atop his party’s national presidential polling, he said, “I would’ve raised an eyebrow, and I think Rudy Giuliani has done a very good job at staying on top of the Republican field longer than I anticipated, and with a substantial amount of political support from people I would not have thought he’d be able to draw.”
 
He went on to call Romney’s organization a “textbook campaign” and drew a contrast to the amount of media attention the former governor’s Mormon religion has garnered when compared to his father’s presidential run in 1967. Rove said that while he was still at the White House, he got some interns together to see how many front-page articles in major publications were devoted to the Michigan governor’s religion and said he found much fewer than today. He attributed part of this to timing, only seven years after Kennedy’s Catholicism had been a point of concern.

But it’s worth pointing out that increased media attention to Romney’s faith is likely due to public polling showing a full third of the population in 2007 saying they would not vote for a Mormon. That is much higher than when Romney’s father was on the political scene.
 
And asked about how he sees next year’s general election playing out, Rove made no bones about his prediction (or preference?) that Clinton will be the Democratic nominee. In order for Republicans to win, he said, the party must “articulate a strong and positive and optimistic agenda,” warning, “It’s not enough to simply say, ‘I’m not her.’”

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Comments

By how many points did Rove win Iowa?
IA UAW just announced they are supporting Obama
Ok, you lured me into commenting FR. My advice to Rove/Penn. Go away. Both of these guys have embarassed this country and their parties. Hopefully, we can end up with a president where we never have to hear those 2 names mentioned. I'll pass on their(Rove/Penn) leaders.
How can Rove say Edwards and Obama are weak and then say that they're both going to give Hillary a scare and beat her somewhere along the way?  Can the guy not go two sentences without contradicting himself?
In order for Republicans to win, he said, the party must “articulate a strong and positive and optimistic agenda,” warning, “It’s not enough to simply say, ‘I’m not her.’”

Sounds much more similar to the messages of Romney or Huckabee than say Giuliani.  At least not everybody at FOX, errr the GOP think Giuliani's the best candidate.
Marbw...My advice to Rove/Penn. Go away.


I second that!
Does anyone REALLY think Rove is giving advice on how the Democrats can best take the White House?
How can Rove say Edwards and Obama are weak and then say that they're both going to give Hillary a scare and beat her somewhere along the way?


Rove's statements work because Rove believes Clinton is also very weak. People should listen when Rove speaks. His track record is fairly solid.
Thanks for the advice KR but why not have them swift boat her so that she can get some practice fending off the slime ball attacks you are planning.
It's funny...
A few months ago, the Clinton machine looked invincible....

Now, they look like bumbling bunglers...

Rove is right in that Obama and Edwards have to show the DIFFERENCES between themselves and Hillary.

Don't be afraid, throw Hillary under the bus....
After all this campaign season, it'll be soooooo cool

TURN THE PAGE
Edwards/Obama '08
Real Change, Honest Government
POSITIVE AND OPTIMISTIC AGENDA, hahahahahahahahahaha!
ROVE WOULD KNOW HOW TO DO THAT, when?
I can't wait for his, 'it wasn't my fault' book.
Tom  - Thanks for the great news.  You're faster than even MSNBC!
Here's from the Obama website:
"Delegates of United Auto Workers Region 4, which includes 30,000 members and retirees in Iowa, voted today to support Senator Barack Obama's presidential campaign. The group announced its overwhelming support at the close of a weeklong conference where seven of the major Democratic presidential candidates addressed the group earlier this week."

Obama is going to win Iowa and the rest of the dominos will fall.  Obama/Webb '08!
Karl Rove. The draft dodger who compared a Bronze-Star winner who left 3 limbs in Viet Nam to Osama bin Laden.

Please report again when this man has gasped his last breath.
Rove's days as the dispenser of Republican Verbal Aqua Dots, is coming to an end. Nobody listens to him anymore, but the people who listen to Britany Spears. The Media and the 24 per centers. (Sorry guys. How do you like her new CD?)
Hellooo!  Obama was never expected to challenge Hillary with anything other than cooked noodles.
His job is to remain No. 2 and keep a distance between Edwards and Hillary.
Edwards has been doing the heavy lifting exposing Hillary's deceptions and contradictions.
Most people realize Obama's campaign has always helped Hillary - he's just along for the ride.
Rove is at it again trying to use his reverse pschologogy.

Speaking of Rovites and Repubs, hey Andy at MSNBC, please answer me this:    Why on earth does MSNBC still allow Tom Delay, who has been indicted on numerous federal felonies and whose trial will be set soon, to be a political spokesperson on your programs?

Have you forgotten that he's been indicted????????  Is there no one else to speak for the "Republic" Party besides that man?
so, is he the Grand Old Man of the Republican Party already? shouldn't he be pardoned or do some jail time first?
Love your take on Rove, Lee in CA. Well said.

Rove lies. That's a given so what this means is that Edwards and Obama aren't weak...which is consistent with his saying they'll give Clinton a hard time. (After all, Rove doesn't want to be seen as totally wrong.)

But by saying they're "weak" he plants the idea with that insidious word-magic he uses to pervert and distort and... oh... Yuck! What an evil man!
Rove- really, I agree... GO AWAY
I believe Rove has proven himself to know elections better that any of us who have posted.  He many not know how to run a country but the man can take any republican and beat Mrs. Clinton.
karl rove is a traitor to this country and should be tried in public.
Please report again when this man has gasped his last breath.

Lee in CA - I second that. Please people don't listen to a word this man is saying.  All this stuff about how he believes Hillary will be the front runner is part of the republican propaganda machine, they want her to be the front runner bcuz she is an easy target. Any of their current canidates can't hold a candle to Obama or Edwards.
"Elmer Fudge" strikes again !!  Do you ever wonder what in the hell does he have in that overstuffed briefcase/luggage he totes. Is he living out of his car? Even worse, is he still drawing a salary from the govt?
OK rovester, not until you talk about how weak Bush and Cheney are/have been.... and convincingly mind you...do you get to rove the democrats. Now who's zoomin who?
After watching the debate last night, there is no doubt in my mind that Hillary Clinton stands head and shoulders above the other candidates. As much as I like Obama, he's not ready for the job. Edwards [unfortunately] comes across like a shrill trial lawyer trying to win over a jury. In my opinion, Clinton won the debate hands-down, with Joe Biden in a close second.
p.s. who care what Rove thinks
It amazes me how the media goes for the losers like Karl Rove.  Karl Rove and George Bush are both evil men. They never did care about the American people and for those who think they did I feel sorry for. The american people can think for themselve and for the most part are not stupid. The  people who scar me ar the ones who say I vote Republican or I vote Democrate. Those are the most stupid statements I have every heard. People should listen to the canidates on the issues, turn off the TV and vote.  We do not need the news media to tell us what was said and for those that do I wish they would not vote. Also there is nothing about the Clinton's that we do not know.  The canidates need to get on with the issues. My take is canadates that can only talk about the other person has no plan and I would never vote for someone like that.  Voting is a privelage and I take it very seriously.  If just people ran with no party name, I bet you would be surprised who would win.
Yep, I guess we can beleive someone that couldnt predict Giuliani would be the front runner of his party up till now, when he has things to say about the dems.Rov rov rov your boat elswhere!
Remind me again why anyone should care about anything Karl Rove has to say about a Democrat...
I THOUGHT OABMA AND EDWARDS ACT LIKE REPUBLICNA KARL ROVE SUPPORTING THEM OH MY GOD- THEY BETTER QUIT NOW BEFORE IT TOO LATE/
Why anyone gives the Pillsbury Roveboy any airtime is beyond any sane comprehension. Except that the big media owners want to elect a Republican to the Whitehouse, so get used to seeing his traiterous mug on tv from now on until next November.
Margaret NYC truer words were never spoken! You are spot on right....

Julia 02110 also right on! great posts.Always believe the opposite of anything out of Roves mouth.

Edwards 2008 'The Peoples President' ending corporate government rule...
Karl Rove is a feckless turd.
Maybe Edwards and Obama should start calling people in Iowa saying Hillary has a black baby. Oh darn....you used that one already Karl.
this idiot is a race/gender baiter.  that's all he was good at.  it worked though.  most republicans are bigots.
omg, that dispicable, treacherous,pasty white,balding old fart is at it again!!! I don't know who's smirk I hate the most, his or bush jr's! I'm with julia, please y'all believe the exact opposite of anything "pillsbury rove boy" says!
Trusting Rove on Democratic politics would be insane. Besides, lets look at the believable factor Rove has going, for instance Rove proclaimed Republicans need to “articulate a strong and positive and optimistic agenda”.

Yeah, right. When was the last time Rove was positive about anything. In 2004 he rode hate, in the form of gay bashing, for all it was worth. When it is not hate, it is fear; most notably in the form of a mushroom cloud. I have also had enough of his subliminal messages.
Trusting Rove on Democratic politics would be insane. Besides, lets look at the believable factor Rove has going, for instance Rove proclaimed Republicans need to “articulate a strong and positive and optimistic agenda”.

Yeah, right. When was the last time Rove was positive about anything. In 2004 he rode hate, in the form of gay bashing, for all it was worth. When it is not hate, it is fear; most notably in the form of a mushroom cloud. I have also had enough of his subliminal messages.
Rove fears Edwards and Obama because they will not follow his 51% majority playbook.  They both can unite the country and Hilary cannot.  He fears a country united behind any President.  Remember the bumber stickers people put on his car on his last day at the White House: Obama.   The candidate he fears the most, and the candidate he will attack the most.
Some day there is going to be a Democrat version of Karl Rove and thats a promise.  Some day there is going to be a full blown Democrat controlled Washington and thats a promise.  Some day there is going to be A Democrat President, House of Represenatives and Senate all at the same time and that is a promise.  Some day there is there is going to be a rubber stamp congress to a Democrat President.  Someday the Republicans are going to be shut out of the media just like what the Republicans are now doing to the Democrats and that is a promise. Someday there is going to be liberal versions of Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hanaity, Bill O'Riley, and Ann Coulter dominating the media and talk radio airwaves and that is a promise.  Liberals taking over the airwaves is starting out right now one well know Liberal commentator is Keith Olberman on Countdown Keith Olberman always loves to blast the Bush Adminitration, Republican, and the Far Right.  Everytime I hear Keith Olberman blast Bush, the Republicans, and the Far Right I start to laugh and I feel really good!!!! When I hear Keith Olberman blast Bush, the Republicans, and the Far Right I yell out Schubert.  Schubert is another way of saying All Right or Right On or Bring It On. After Keith Olberman blasts Bush, the Republicans, and the Far Right this is like revenge for the Republicans and Far Right.  Keith Olberman is a rising star in Liberal Commentary and talk. This is the beigining of the end for Conservative Far Right wing talk dominating the airwaves. This will be pay back for the Republicans. Pay back is a bummer isn't it.  Some day there is going to be a Presidental adminstration and congress with a left liberal agenda that the Far Right and Republicans are going to hate and thats a promise. This Liberal Agenda is going to be Universal Health Care, An Equal Rights Amendment, repeal of the Bush Tax Cuts, repeal of the Death Penalty, repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell, repeal of No Child Left Behind, Repeal of the PATRIOT ACT, repeal of the law that requires a passport to get into Mexico and Canada, and Privatizing NASA. This Agenda is going to put the United States in par with the European Union when it comes to Welfare State, and Social Laws.  When this day comes this is going to be the Republicans and Far Rights worst nightmare. When this day comes it is going to feel really good!!!!  For so many years the Republicans, Necons, and the Far Right have had their way now it is going to be the Democrats, Liberals and the Lefts turn and that is a promise. This is a message for the Republicans and far Right you better think about leaving the country if you don't want to see the Liberal Agenda passed. This is a Message for the Republicans What goes around comes around.  Do on to others has they would do on to you. The Golden Rule.  There is no way the Republicans can repeal or get rid of the Golden Rule.
Rove is a scam artist, nothing else. Given his probable participation in electoral frauds and  various nefarious acts in the White House, he may be a criminal as well. But I am sure he will be embraced by the corporate media with open arms.
I only agree with Rove on one thing. Hillary would put this country in a bad mood for 4 years.

I'm a Dem who would go for Huck over Hillary in a second.
But it’s worth pointing out that increased media attention to Romney’s faith is likely due to public polling showing a full third of the population in 2007 saying they would not vote for a Mormon. That is much higher than when Romney’s father was on the political scene.


----

That's because the Republicans are now a religiously based party.

In the 60s, they were largely in favor of separation of church and state.
I suspect Doctor StangeRove is aching for Mitt Romney to ask him to work his election campaign.  Romney fits the Rove mold -- attack and obfsstcate, then put everything through the spin cycle.  But Romney knows Rove is damaged goods in the eyes of the voters.  Many things will surprise Rove, especially since he is not really a politician, but a political technician.
I'd probably vote for Obama over Hillary; but compared to evil slimebuckets like Rove, Bush, Cheney etc, Hillary comes out smelling like a rose.  The worst they can come up on Hillary is "she really wants to be president" as if the RepugliKKKans aren't 1000 times worse in their greed & power grabbing.

Jeremy,

Keep dreaming or should I say that crazy nightmare you speak of...
Rove would like nothing better than to have an Edwards or an Obama for the Republican candidate to run against:  they are weak and would be toast in no time.  The Republicans are afraid of Senator Clinton, as they should be, and old Karl is still at his dirty tricks of trying to manipulate the election and the American public.  Hey, Karl, haven't you had enough of slash and burn politics?  You are an appalling individual!!

Go, Hillary!!!!!
Please spare us from that odious troll Karl Rove and his opinions. It isn't bad enough that that man is responsible for engineering the blackest period in America's history, but now news outlets treat him like his opinions are worth listening to? BANISH HIM.
Well, Karl, a lot of us are surpised at how inept and corrupt the Bush administration has been as well.
And of course I trust Rove completely.

Thank you to Edwards and Obama who had the gumption to speak clearly and factually about Clinton's pandering. I'd support them any day in bringing out the truth.

Rove should go back into his closet.
Rove, Bush, and Cheney betrayed this country by outing a covert CIA Agent.   All three should be processed under the CIA's rendition program.


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