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First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC Political Researcher



Quick Post-Debate Impressions

Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2007 10:21 PM by Chuck Todd

From NBC's Chuck Todd
If the last debate was the moment where Democrats realized that the Clinton coronation was, at least, postponed, this one will be known as the debate that seemed to sharpen the contrast between Clinton and Obama and create a gap between the big two and everyone else. The sparring between Clinton and Obama on a number of issues is likely to set the tone for some time. Edwards was hurt, partially, by the fact that Clinton and Obama were next to each other, while Edwards was off to the side.  

This debate was about Clinton effectively fighting back, Obama sticking to his guns and separation between those two and everyone else.

As for Edwards, he just wasn't at his best tonight. His attempts at hitting Clinton early on fell flat. That little "planted question" line was out of place. What's interesting is that Edwards seemed to get it and went back to his comfort zone and ended the debate a lot stronger than he started. Of course, first impressions are everything and Edwards didn't make a strong first impression at this debate.

As for Obama, he did fine but, early on, missed a major opportunity. Obama showed his inexperience at debating. When Clinton hit him early on health care, Obama simply defended himself from the attack, rather than deflect the attack and hit back at her over the '93 health care reform failure. It was an easy hit for him, and he missed; he didn't even swing; got caught looking. Clinton is winning on "experience," not because of the practical experience she has as a former chief executive (she's never been one) but the experience she has as a politician, as a debater. Clinton would not have missed a similar opening.

Clinton ducked the immigration controversy that dogged her at the last debate because she only had to utter one simple word on the driver's license issue: "No."  She didn't have to answer for the fact that she waited a few weeks to give a definitive answer. Meanwhile, the theatrics between the moderator and Obama over whether he was answering "yes or no" on the issue gave Clinton the moment on immigration THEY were looking for. Will this be the Clinton YouTube moment they push around? We'll see.  (BTW, Clinton better be careful on NAFTA; her about face on the issue from what she said about the trade deal just one year ago is striking. No one tagged her on it tonight but don't be surprised if reporters pounce.)

Obama got his YouTube moment when he got to challenge the moderator on the issue of being a pessimist. Look for THAT in an email box near you VERY soon.

One final Clinton v. Obama point. Clinton really benefitted from the audience responses; I'd love to know who got tickets for this debate, whether one campaign was allowed to get more tix than another. Because the booing by the Clinton supporters when Edwards or Obama confronted Clinton were distracting to the candidates and did throw them off every now and then.

As for the rest of the field, Biden, again, had a good night. He keeps doing well at these debates; we'll see if he can use this to propel himself in Iowa. Richardson, btw, had one of his better performances, possibly his best. Dodd didn't get a lot of time but when he did speak, he seemed to be on message. Still, I bet the Dodd folks are lighting up CNN over the lack of face time.


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Hillary gave another great performance. She is without a doubt the "best" candidate. I will be voting for Hillary Clinton.
Chuck Todd.  You are an absolute disgrace.  Blah blah blah.  I just hope people don't ACTUALLY let what you spout on here influence what THEY hear from the candidates.

Doesn't it make you feel pathetic to have to only be allowed to say what your employer wants you to say?
I wish the Clinton News Network(CNN) could give as balanced an accounting of the debate as MSNBC.  If you watch the post debate coverage on that channel, you would think Sen. Clinton mopped the floor with the other candidates.  She did well, but CNN needs to get a grip.
Did you guys (and girls) noticed how Edwards and Obama missed completely the immigration question? Granted Hillary only responded with her NO... But the guys waffled incredibly...
No question about it, Hillary has the most experience and is ready to lead from day one.
I agree this event did nothing else if it didn't differentiate the big two from the rest.  

That said, these debates suck.  There were some good exchanges, honest disagreements going on that were cut short and some candidates never got to enter.

With a field this big, there has to be a different way to do this.  It's not fair to any of the candidates.
It is clearly known...that Hillary supporters were there.  and that most of the questions were in favor to her...I MEAN the last question put the cherry on top!  No it is not the same like the last debate...clearly Mark Wolf was pessimistic about every candidates response...i wonder how much the corp paid him??? geez...and did you see all those woman in that debate?? i really did not like this debate at all...espc the crowd booing kucinich???? obama??? wow...wake up america!
GOT TO LOVE HILLARY. hillaryclinton.com
Edwards was put on the end specifically so that he wouldn't be next to them. Does that really surprise you? The media want this to be Obama vs. Clinton. They don't want Edwards in the picture and they have done everything they can to keep him out. We are totally disgusted. But we won't give up...this is far too important a race to quit. We know Edwards won't and we won't either.

By the way, the audience issue was a big factor in this debate and it shouldn't have been.
CNN is horrible.  I am stuck in Canada for a week on business and have been dying without Hardball, Tucker, and Keith.  All they have up here is CNN.

They are clearly pushing and pulling for Hillary. They didn't press her on NAFTA, Immigration flip flop, using gender, and gave her a Diamonds or Pearls question?  Are they serious?

Obama did fine on substance.  He answered on illegal immigrants, but debates do hurt Obama's style.  The question we have is: Do we want someone who can debate effectively and distinguish themselves, or do we want someone who can/will work with others and take a cerebral approach.

CNN is horrible.  They put two formal clinton white house workers on the post debate coverage, and are dramatically pushing the news headline they are trying to artificially to create.

I hope MSNBC is going to rebel against how horrible CNN's coverage is, and not push this media creation.  But is clearly down to two people, which I think hurts Clinton.  The more people on the stage and in the discussion, the more it helps Clinton.  John Edwards is out, which Hillary tried to prevent by engaging him.  
Does the American people really support Hillary Clinton like we are led to believe by the media???

I talk about politics with a wide range of diverse individuals and I don't see NEARLY the support for her that is portrayed by the MSM.  

WTH is going on?  
My debate impressions:

Business as usual as the Democrats offer little more than their debate-laden talking points, and pot shots at the Republicans.  Clinton v. Obama was interesting at first... Obama got caught on the illegal immigrant question, and from my vantage point, lost the rest of the night.  I, too, am amazed that Clinton was able to skate through the driver's license issue with a one word answer.  

Clinton didn't impress me at all.  She was served lobbed softballs, she wasn't clear on NAFTA, Social Security, or Illegal Immigration.  Obama is clearly out of his league at this point.   John Edwards is grasping at straws.  He looks desperate out there.

The second tier candidates might as well just hang up their cleats.  I like Biden in that "nutty Uncle who always says something funny" way.  Bill Richardson was about a half hour away from handing out daisies and braiding Hillary's hair.  

Christopher Dodd and Kucinich are wasting the American people's time, in all honesty.  

All in all, a complete bust of a debate put on my the Clinton News Network.  The debate was tailor made to make Clinton look like the shining beacon on a hill - and if I were the other candidates, I'd boycott CNN for the rest of my campaign.
Obama did not win.
Anybody else notice how Wolf tried to cut everybody off while they were trying to make a valid point, yet pretty much let Clinton give her campaign speech.  CNN (Clinton News Network) is a disgrace
I don't believe that people actually support Hillary. No one that I know is more than lukewarm about her, and I live in California and have liberal friends around the country. I think it's a story put forward by the media because they want a consistent storyline and an easy answer.
And what was that wierd question to Hillary about diamonds and pearls? Was that some kind of plant? I found it very strange.
The whole fricken audience was her plant this time.
The support for Hillary works like this: People are told she is the front runner, so they support her.  

Every man I meet says they will never vote for her.

I think the democrats are walking their party off a cliff if they nominate her.  She can't win. Women may vote for her, but her negatives are too high.  Why would a party do that to themselves.

I have never met people who are dying to vote for Hillary.  All they say is that Obama can't beat her.  They are going with Hillary because they don't see a challenger, not because she is stirring them up.

This is why she doubled her Iowa staff. If she loses in Iowa, it is over for her, because then it is down to her and Obama for a month of hard core analyzing between the two.
I agree totally, Hillary is the most experanced and ready to lead if we want the same old politics we have had from Washington for the last 20 years or so, vote for Hillary!!!!
Me I will vote for change and hopefully giving the government back to the people, in other words Obama. In fact if Hillary is the canidate, I will probebily stay home election day because I personily am sick of the same old politics.
This whole campaign only makes me want to stop giving a dang!!  I have followed it closely and it is truly sad to see what has become of the media.

I have literally watched Chris Matthews go from a tolerable (though strong/slanted) opinated host to a man who is ABSOLUTELY OBSESSED with Hillary Clinton.  After every debate, his entire show is devoted to her.  He even asks the other candidates who appear on the "post game" wrap up ONLY about her!

Now CNN pulls a stunt like this.  They want so badly to make this the black guy vs the women that they won't give anyone else a chance to be heard.  Obama and Clinton deserve to be heard, but so do the others.  Biden and Dodd specifically.  They have been marginalized by the media.

I am TIRED OF IT
Edwards disappeared during the audience Q&A section and Richardson came on strong.  Richardson had his best debate of the race.  At the end of the night, he looked a lot more Presidential than the two complainers (Edwards and Obama) and could emerge as the alternative to HRC.
Mark Thieme,

NOBODY WON!  Everybody who watched that stupid debate is now more dumb than they were previously.  CNN needs to learn a few lessons about how to conduct a debate.
All Democrats should be ashamed of the boo-ing whenever Clinton was challenged.  She should be able to handle her own battles, and she most definitely should be challenged.  Obama and Edwards were never out-of-line in their contrasting.

The debate was a total mess.

And Clinton is such a phony it makes me sick.
I really missed Russert's no nonsense and hard hitting moderation.  blitzer was clearly gotten to by the Clinton camp and their threats.  The after debate was a joke with clintonistas doing the spin for their girl.
This whole debate was rigged for hillary.  She had a mediocre night but, between the so called moderators who gave her a pass and her people stuffed in the audience as well as the clinton staffers doing spin, this was not a real debate but, a joke.
I hope the next one is on MSNBC and that Russert is doing the questioning and in fine form.
Wolf performed as was instructed by the Clinton campaign to go after Obama. I would like to know how these clinton supporter got tickets. The debate was a pro-hillary by Wolf and the CNN(CLINTON NETWORK NEWS)
Chuck,

If Biden had a good night why not mention it earlier?  How wacky would that have been?  

One reason Biden is having trouble gaining traction is that no matter how good he does, or how many times the other candidates say "I agree with Joe" or "Joe is right", is because coverage always begins with Clinton, then Obama, then Edwards, then Richardson (even though he is -and looks like- a giant pander bear), then BidenDoddKucinich.  You always say "Biden did good" like you are trying to answer call-waiting but want to finish up first.

Where is the phrase count on "I agree with Joe"?  And not just by you.  It is the elephant in the room that the MSM has yet to report on.  Why is that?  Could it be that if the MSM focused on Joe Biden he might gain in the polls?  What the MSM is saying is that Biden is an old white guy and, therefore, unworthy of real attention.  

Talk about your racial profiling.

Wolf performed as was instructed by the Clinton campaign to go after Obama. I would like to know how these clinton supporter got tickets. The debate was a pro-hillary by Wolf and the CNN(CLINTON NETWORK NEWS)
Richardson did great. He gave staight answers that showed his knowledge and experiance! Obama did terrible. He couldn't even give a straight answer on a question he attacked Hillar on (drivers licenses to illegal immigrants). He looked desperate and unable to present his own policies.
Hillary lost again.  Very disappointing.  I think everyone had high expectations of her, but they have not been met.
Hillary won.  Listen to what she says and not to the applause and talking heads.  She did a great job and is clearly the most qualified to lead the country and take it back from the quacks who run it now.
I'm a man who will vote for Hillary - stop the attack line that she's unelectable - that's why she's leading in the polls nationwide, that's why she she's been dominating elections in NY state including rural republican areas. Its sick that democrats are reduced to spewing out republican attack lines on electability because they clearly aren't touching her poll numbers on the issues. Oh and p.s theres many other men like me who think Hillary's the best choice so don't think she's lacking in our support.
hehehe ... Obama waffles on the DRIVERS LISCENSE answer ... I can't stop giggling ...
I never met a Clinton supporter I liked... Luckily they are few and far between.  This debate was ridiculous for every candidate.  CNN is disgusting.  
Poor, poor debate. Everyone seemed very nervous. This is certainly the B-Team (and C-Team) for the Democratic party. Hillary is losing all that luster she once had. It's looking more and more like a Republican is goiing to win next year.
Awful.  Where's Al GOre?
Obam flinched.  He seemed weakest early when the debate was the most heated.   He shrunk when he had the chance to stand out.
Well this woman sure wouldn't vote for her!!!!
Democrats are through.
Has it occurred to anyone that the Dems cannot win without the South?  They didn't do it in '00 or '04 and they won't do it in '08 either.  Folks in the South will never vote for a woman or a black man.  I am not being prejudicial here, just a realist.  Why the Dems would put themselves in a position where they could not carry the South is just totally and completely nuts.  Thanks to Hillary and Obama, we will all be stuck with another Republican President.  Maybe if tHillary and Company can drive the party off a cliff, a new one will emerge from the ashes that actually does what the Democratic party that Roosevelt built did - back the play of working people.  
The Diamonds or Pearls Debate.

That was the most rigged broadcast I have ever seen.  Anyone else notice all the extra camera work when Hillary spoke?  Shooting from below and to the side, slow zooms.  Real nice.  At least it would have been if they were doing it for all the candidates instead of just one.  That was as bad as anything FOX has done for Bush and the Republicans.  

The Diamonds or Pearls Debate.  

In case anyone had any doubt about who the Establishment candidate is.  And after all the woderful comments from Barack Obama the post debate 'analylsis' jumps all over him and includes two former Clinton White House people and a packaged story line about how Hillary somehow won a debate. That was no debate. That was about as real as reality TV I guess.  Absolutely disgraceful.    
Hillary Clinton should NOT be offering criticism or comments on anyone else's health care plan. We have seen her abilities or lack thereof on health care. Obama shoud have just said "sorry, Senator, but I don't think you are the person qualified to judge what makes a good health care policy or not." but, he  didn't really need to. The American people know she has no credibility on being able to reform healthcare. Obama's response to Clinton's attempt to mis-characterize or re-define the middle class was stunning. She tried to hit him but he struck back very effectively on many issues.
I hope that we can expect better from MSNBC than what we just got from CNN.  I have never experienced such poor questions and moderating of a presidential debate.
yes the american people do support hillary. she is the best candidate running for presisent.
1. hillary
2. biil
3. joe
4. edwards
5. obama
6. dodd
7. kucinish
One thing I know is I will vote against Hillary if she is the nominee period.  No more watch CNN specialy that Wafle dewarf the situation room.
first obama was for everything on the table regarding soc. sec., then he was against evrything, then he was for it, then raising the caop, then not , then a bipartisan commission...which i might add has been hillary's position right from the start. hillary was obviously back on her game, after a much needed rest. as for the attack dogs obama and edwards, they got spanked on the bottom with the rolled up newspaper and put in their cages. oh, and by the way...what exactly was his answer on that yes or no question about driver's licenses? funny how these 2 attackers got called out on their own flip-flopping. alsio, i find it amusing because the crowd booed both edwards and obama and cheered for hillary, they must be people put their by the campaign. hmmmm...i wonder if it just might be possible that the audience supports her because she is the best candidate with the best chance to move the country forward.....no that's not possible, she must have planted the entire audience!  step aside obama and edwards and let the lady through...the next president of the united states.
Best line of the night - The Upper 6% is NOT THE MIDDLE CLASS!!!!
CNN was horrible.  That's why they are know as Clinton Network News.  Besides rigging the audience - they shouldn't have been able to influence the debate anyway;

Look at who they have for post-debate commentators. My God.  Obama won hands down.  Hillary never answered the SS question.  Obama took her out on that.  CNN refused to play any of that back.  They showed Hillary's better remarks 3/1 over Obama after the debate.  They didn't even show Obama taking on Hillary's vote on Iran, but instead just mentioned that Obama wasn't there.
They didn't show one of Obama's best presentations at the end of the debat when he said why he would Unite the country.

I am outraged at Clinton Network News.  Please make this an issue Chuck.  I will watch MSNBS again if you do.  I stopped watching CNN long ago.
Amy Pressly:

This is experience:

Biden is a long-time member of the Senate Committee on the Judiciary, which he chaired from 1987 until 1995 and served as ranking minority member from 1981 until 1987 and again from 1995 until 1997. In this capacity, he has become one of the most respected Senate voices on drug policy, crime prevention, and civil liberties. While 000chairman, Biden presided over two of the more contentious U.S. Supreme Court confirmation hearings ever, Robert Bork in 1987 and Clarence Thomas in 1991.
Biden has been instrumental in crafting significant federal crime laws over the last decade, including the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, also known as the Biden Crime Law. He also authored the landmark Violence Against Women Act of 2000, which contains a broad array of groundbreaking measures to combat domestic violence and provides billions of dollars in federal funds to address gender-based crimes; part of this legislation later was struck down as unconstitutional. He also introduced the controversial RAVE Act in April 2003.
As chairman of the International Narcotics Control Caucus, Biden wrote the laws that created the nation's "Drug Czar," who oversees and coordinates national drug control policy. In this role, Biden continues to work to stop the spread of "date rape" drugs, such as Rohypnol, and drugs such as Ecstasy and Ketamine. In 2004 he worked to pass a bill outlawing steroids like androstenedione, the drug used by many baseball players.
Staunchly supportive of education, Biden's legislation has promoted college aid and loan programs and has allowed families to deduct on their annual income-tax returns up to $10,000 per year in higher-education expenses. His enacted Kids 2000 legislation which established a public/private partnership to help provide computer centers, teachers, Internet access, and technical training to young people across the nation, particularly to low-income and at-risk youth.
Biden's expertise in foreign policy, national security, and arms control issues has won him considerable bipartisan respect. In 1997, he became the ranking minority member of the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations and chaired the committee from June 2001 through 2003. His efforts to combat hostilities in the Balkans in the 1990s brought national attention and influenced presidential policy: traveling repeatedly to the region, he made one meeting famous by calling Serbian leader Slobodan Milosevic a "war criminal." He consistently argued for lifting the arms embargo, training Bosnian Muslims, investigating war crimes and administering NATO air strikes. Biden's subsequent "lift and strike" resolution was instrumental in convincing President Bill Clinton to use military force in the face of systematic human rights violations.
Frankly tonights debate was a clear home crowd advantage for Hillary. Primed with planted questions of "pearls or diamonds"...Give me a break. Democrats such as myself really need to wake up and stop letting hillary ride bill clintons coat tails and wake up to the realization that the one unifying thing for republicans is hillary, and she stands no chance in the general election!
Chuck Todd,

I hope we will hear your opinion of how Wolf and CNN handled the debate. I thought he lost control and there was significant lack of discipline. Also what was that about people booing Edwards and Obama-that never happened in previous debates. You think the local party has too many Hillary loyalists?(Aything to do Harry Reid's son working for Hillary?)

How about the post debate spin? 2 of the 3 panelists from previous Clinton WH spinning in Hillary's favor?

CNN is no match for MSNBC when it comes to political coverage.

I hope we will hear from you Chuck!
CNN was a disgrace to the political process tonite...People in the audience were obviously Clinton supporters and, at times, didn't even allow candidates to finish.  The spin the press core puts on these debates is criminal and these debates are losing there legitamacy.  Hillary is the easy choice for people because of her husband, and because the press has made her out as the leader from the get go...Makes me sick.  Obama is the only man willing to say what the real issues are and how the American people can come together to solve them.  Iowa will set the tone and there Obama will finally be seen as someone who can beat the Clinton machine


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