First thoughts: Viva Las Vegas

Posted: Friday, November 16, 2007 9:37 AM by Mark Murray
Filed Under: First Thoughts

From Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, and Domenico Montanaro

LAS VEGAS -- If last month’s debate in Philly was the moment when Democrats and reporters realized that the Clinton coronation -- with a crown of diamonds and pearls? -- was postponed, last night’s will be remembered for Clinton effectively fighting back, Obama sticking to his guns, and the gap between those two and everyone else widening. The Clinton vs. Obama spat exposed the true fissure in the Democratic Party: generational and ideological. Edwards found himself on the outside of this fight; he was hurt especially by the fact that Clinton and Obama were standing next to each other, while the former North Carolina senator was off to the side.

*** Dr. No: Clinton ducked the drivers’ license controversy that has dogged her since Philly, because all she had to utter was one simple word: "no" (that she didn’t support giving illegal immigrant drivers’ licenses). Indeed, she didn't have to answer why she waited more than two weeks to give a definitive answer or why her “no” seemed inconsistent with her past statements. Meanwhile, the theatrics between the moderator and Obama over whether he was answering "yes or no" on the issue gave Clinton the moment on immigration her campaign was looking for. Will this be the Clinton YouTube moment they push around? We'll see. On the flip side, Clinton’s about-face on NAFTA from what she said about the trade deal just one year ago was striking (and perhaps something reporters look into). Nobody on stage jumped on it -- but it's perhaps a bigger flip she'll have to answer for than the war.

*** A swing and a miss: As for Obama, he did fine. But early on, he missed a major opportunity, which displayed his inexperience at debating. When Clinton hit him early on health care, Obama simply defended himself from the attack, rather than deflect the attack and counterpunch with the 1993 health-care reform failure. It was an easy hit for him, and he missed. Clinton is winning on "experience," not because of the practical experience she has as a former chief executive (she's never been one), but the experience she has as a politician, as a debater. Clinton would not have missed a similar opening. But Obama got his YouTube moment when he got to challenge the moderator on the issue of being a pessimist. Look for THAT in an email box near you VERY soon.

*** Those boo-birds: A final Clinton vs. Obama point… Hillary really benefited from the audience responses. An organizer for the debate told First Read that each campaign received 22 tickets, while the state party and UNLV invited the rest. But just how many of the rest were Clinton supporters? Because their booing when Edwards or Obama confronted Clinton was distracting to the candidates and threw them off. The audience was supposed to play a role via the questions they asked; instead, they played a MAJOR role in helping Clinton have home-field advantage.

*** First impressions count: As for Edwards, he just wasn't at his best tonight. His attempts at hitting Clinton early on fell flat. That little "planted question" line was out of place.

What's interesting is that Edwards seemed to get it, and went back to his comfort zone and ended the debate a lot stronger than he started. Of course, first impressions are everything and Edwards didn't make a strong first impression at this debate. David Yepsen's declaration this morning is not helpful to Edwards, but he also warns Clinton to not bury Edwards too quickly or else face the possibility of a stronger Obama who unites the anti-Clinton vote.

*** The rest: As for the rest of the field, Biden -- again -- had a good night. He keeps doing well at these debates; we'll see if he can use this to propel himself in Iowa. Richardson, by the way, had one of his better performances, possibly his best. But his response that he has always Yucca Mountain will likely give him headaches from Nevada reporters. Dodd didn't get a lot of time, but when he did speak, he seemed to be on message.

*** Enter Lou Dobbs? There is some speculation today that Lou Dobbs might run for president. Seriously. Writes the Wall Street Journal’s John Fund: "After months of telling reporters that he ‘absolutely’ would not consider leaving his highly-rated CNN show in which he crusades against free trade and illegal immigration, Mr. Dobbs posted a commentary on his Web site last week predicting a surprise new presidential candidate in 2008. The mystery candidate is an ‘independent populist . . . who understands the genius of this country lies in the hearts and minds of its people and not in the prerogatives and power of its elites. Friends of Mr. Dobbs say he is seriously contemplating a race for the first time, although it's still unlikely. They spin a scenario under which the acerbic commentator would parachute into the race if Michael Bloomberg, the New York billionaire and favorite of East Coast elites, enters the field as an independent."

*** On the trail: A day after last night’s debate, Nevada continues to be the center of attention: Clinton hosts a discussion on renewable energy before holding a campaign rally in Reno; Edwards tours a Henderson, NV hospital with SEIU nurses and then holds a press avail with them; Romney is also in the state, where he attends a Las Vegas Chamber of Commerce roundtable; and Hunter stumps in the Silver State. Elsewhere, Biden campaigns in Iowa; Edwards heads to California to picket with striking Writers Guild members; Giuliani addresses the Federalist Society in DC; McCain campaigns in New Hampshire; Romney later hits a fundraiser in Provo, UT; Tancredo is in New Hampshire and Vermont; and Thompson stumps in Florida. Also, Bill Clinton campaigns for his wife in New Hampshire before addressing the Young Democrats of America National Fall Conference in the Granite State.

Countdown to Iowa: 48 days
Countdown to New Hampshire: 53 days
Countdown to Michigan: 60 days
Countdown to Nevada and SC GOP primary: 64 days
Countdown to SC Dem primary: 71 days
Countdown to Florida: 74 days
Countdown to Tsunami Tuesday: 81 days
Countdown to Election Day 2008: 354 days
Countdown to Inauguration Day 2009: 431 days

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Comments

Perhaps the audience was booing the in-fighting that has begun to characterize these debates. Several of the candidates made note of the fact that they are doing the Democratic party no favors by pouncing on each other. Unless I need to clean my ears out, there were plenty of cheers for Edwards and Obama and the others when they made good points as well. What people seemed to be booing was the negativity.

Biden was as excellent as he always is at the debates. On Morning Joe today, Chuck Todd was on discussing the debate performances and the general consensus was that Biden appears to be the adult on a stage full of children. I agree with that assessment. Biden is mature, he says what he needs to say to get his point across and then he shuts his trap. His ideas are solid, his tone is appropriate and he has yet to look bad at one of these debates. Biden not only looks presidential but he also acts presidential.

I thought Hillary also did great. She looked great, she sounded great - and most importantly for her campaign, she sounded confident again.

Carrie, Eastern Iowa (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 10:03 AM)

The question Mr. Blitzer asked about the candidate's priorities as president was the thing I thought was telling. He asked whether the priority should be on human rights or national security. If I recall, all of the democratic candidates came down on the side of national security, but, clearly John Edwards saw the question for what it was - tom foolery.

If you analyse that question, it comes down to the question whether it is preferrable that a foreign power destroy America or that Americans destroy America.

The reason is that America is nothing if not a constitution, limitations on the power of government, reservations of meaningful power to the states and to the people, a democracy, a government of the people, by the people and for the people. We fought a revolutionary war against England for those principles. We fought a horrendously bloody civil war for those principles. We throw the principles away, we throw the country away.

The question assumes a choice that does not exist. And I expect that the Republican party under its present leadership does not understand that. It may be the most compelling reason we need a change.

Mike Henry, Quanah, Texas (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 10:03 AM)

Thank god for TIVO. 20 minutes and I was done. This tea party, ERRRRRRRR, debate was not much fun to watch. I enjoyed Hillary being slapped around a bit. She still cannot and will not answer any question about Social Security. I don't know if she thinks it is that big of a problem or what, telling everyone we will do a study on it is not part of the solutions. Obama wanting to raise taxes is a pretty frightening thought as well. But for the time I watched Hillary, she did nothing to impress even blind and deaf people that she is a serious candidate for President.

jerry/corpus christi texas (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 10:04 AM)

The threats on Wolf Blitzer worked. He was a Lamb as the rival campaigns to clinton are saying. Move.on.org threats and ther Clinton Threats must have had Wolf thinking of "i better be careful" I remember Vince Foster and Juanita Broaddick, and Katheen willeys husband. Clinton Praises Wolf as being the BEST moderater, adn more professinal that Tim Russert. Watch out America Hillary is after you next

HillaryHater (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 10:09 AM)

I was very disappointed in Wolf Blitzer. He is a weak moderator. The questions were NOT ones that should have been answered yes or no. Many were not of great national importance. And that booing was allowed was disgusting!

Obama was by far better than Clinton who just parrots what she thinks the voter wants to hear.

Meredith Martin, Ocala, Florida (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 10:10 AM)

A new general election poll from Nevada released yesterday by CNN showed how tight Nevada will be come November (check it out: http://www.campaigndiaries.com/2007/11/waiting-for-las-vegas-fireworks.html )<br>
As for the debate, Hillary was very strong and came out swinging early... which silenced her opponents. Read Campaign Diaries's full analysis of the debate: http://www.campaigndiaries.com/2007/11/las-vegas-debate-when-crowd-takes-care.html

Daniel, NY (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 10:12 AM)

hello

HMT-MI (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 10:13 AM)

I can't wait to see sierra's, and jerry's comments on Hillary's performance last night. She effectively slipped jabs from Obama and Edwards, and counterpunched methodically.
Obama looked like a jack-lighted deer when she brought up the fact that he opposed universal healthcare. She pointed out that second tier candidates aren't picking on her because she's a woman, they're attacking her because she's the frontrunner. I loved the crowd response to that one!
Edwards tried to get in the mix, but never really did.
And speaking of the audience, who would have thought she'd get THAT kind of response from people in The Nevada State Democratic Party, and the students and faculty of UNLV? They LOVED her! They also showed Obama and Edwards what most of us think of their mud-slinging republican-like campaign tactics.
That's another thing she did adroitly last night. She called Obama out on his 1990's Neo-Con rhetoric.
In a word, she was BRILLIANT.
Sorry sierra, but yo' boys didn't "finish her" as you said they would. In fact, they fell far short of that, and in the end they got THUMPED themselves.
GO HILLARY!!! Clinton for President 2008!!!

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 10:14 AM)

Clinton continues to be disingenuous and Obama continues to have trouble with the format of these debates. I had hoped for something new and interesting to happen this time. Pity.

Steve, Hartford, CT (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 10:17 AM)

As an Obama guy, I will admit Clinton did well. But take away that slitled audience, and it's a different debate, no doubt.

Anonymous, Rolla, MO (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 10:21 AM)

Obama sticking to his guns? You folks in the media are trying ever so hard to make this a race. Obama was a disaster last night. He had more waffles than a diner at breakfast.

He looked weak and blew the question regarding human rights vs. national security. Clinton followed it up, hit it out of the part, and make him look soft and weak in the process.

He blew the question on drivers lic. He tried to parse and give an answer without taking a position and in the end he embarassed himself by realizing how bad he looked and caving by going back to his original position.

He blew the nuclear waste question. Again he tried to be cutely and evasive and not take a positon, just like on drivers lic, and human rights / vs. national security.

The guy doesn't appear Presidential. He doesn't appear ready to be President. He doesn't even appear to be different as he says.

The worst thing that happened to him last night was Clinton's dig about his "hoping" and her pointing out that the Republicans would not give up and go away. To partisan Democrats who vote in the primaries, they knew exactly what she meant and I think most would agree with her. Obama is inexperienced and naive.

But I understand why you are trying to prop him up. You want a race to driver viewers / site traffic.

Good luck with that.

Dickie Flatts, Charlotte, NC (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 10:21 AM)

Obama was at his best when Russert (Hillary hater) and Chris Matthew (another Clinton hater) helped him and Edwards attack Hillary.
Last night debate was more civil and helped Hillary.
Obama is a lightweight and Edwards is mean spirited and a lightweight.
GO HILLARY!

Stella (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 10:25 AM)

I don't agree that Obama had to slap Hillary on the 1993 failure, maybe the flip on position 14 years later or the money she receives from the Industries involved in change. ( STrange on how W.Buffet supports Obama, but is investing in Health Insurance companies?). Obama should of thrown his Ethics, Morals, Cleanness, NO Drama, Understanding, Eagerness, and his LOVE of America into the mix!!

MarkkraM, East Moline, IL (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 10:29 AM)

Are the moderators on strike too?

mike oh (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 10:29 AM)

CNN should be embarrassed at that debate. I have never seen such a out of control rude audience. There is such a thing as debate decorum, and it was completely absent last night.

I was fortunate enough to get tickets through the Democratic party to ABC's August debate in Des Moines. Not only did the Democratic party make it clear that no campaign buttons were allowed, but those presents agreed to the rules, which included no cheering, etc. I have never seen a debate where a candidate was heckled as Obama was. I'm not supporting Obama at the caucus, but he is a good man, as is John Edwards, and they should not have had to put up with the behavior of the crowd. And CNN did nothing to shut it down. Sadly I think the Democratic debate Fox wanted to put on in Nevada could not have been worse, even if Fox packed the audience with its regular viewers.

I doubt size of the audience fully explains the crowds behavior, because more people were at the AFL-CIO forum in Chicago, and while Keith Olberman wasn't able to get them to stop cheering after answers, the crowd had the manners of British royalty at high tea compared to the group in Vegas last night!

Apparently they don't understand that there is a difference between a welter weight prize fight and a Presidential debate. I'm sure it will be the last time any network with a desire to maintain credibility will host a debate in Vegas.

"Biden -- again -- had a good night. He keeps doing well at these debates; we'll see if he can use this to propel himself in Iowa."

I agree with First Read, although Biden didn't merely have a good night, he was once again the best on stage. I imagine it is because he is in a league of his own when it comes to knowledge, experience, and accomplishments. He doesn't have to go into hiding and work on debate prep, of poll test answers. Biden even held a campaign event immediately prior to the debate, because Biden knows issues and facts, and is able to speak the truth, no prep required! Go Joe!

Sara, Cedar Rapids, Iowa (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 10:32 AM)

Poor Kucinich ignored once again first by Wolf and now by Mark Murray. He has been the only canidate who has the guts to stand by his his anti-war vote from day 1 unlike the leading canidates who all conviently flip-flop. He did have the best line when he stated that he was against The Patriot Act because I actually read it. What a concept!

juan, ft lauderdale,fl (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 10:34 AM)

The Democratic Debate last night in Las Vegas, was absolutely terrific. And I must thank the moderators, Wolf Blitzer, Campbell Brown and John Roberts, they were masters. Comparing them to Chris Matthews and Tim Russert is like night and day, heaven and hell. Thank you so much for being fair, honest, and extremely entertaining. YEA for HILLARY. She shone like a bright star. She was the best. My husband and were always voting for her, but not we are more than certainly voting for her. I also think that Governor Richardson, or Joe Biden would make wonderful running mates with Clinton in the Presidental nomination. Because we really feel that Clinton will win the nomination. She is the best qualified. And, ok, playing the gender card, we would absolutely want to see a woman president in our lifetimes. All of our Presidents were men, let's give a woman a chance. And not just any woman, Hillary is the best.

Again, thanx to CNN for doing a far better and more professional and successful jobs than their "foaming at the mouth" coherts over at MSNBC. It was really disqusting the way that MSNBC handled the last debate. CNN is now our choice for all news!!!!!

Dorothy Goldstein, Phoenix, AZ (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 10:42 AM)

It wasn't the knock out I'd hoped for....
But, it wasn't a Clinton victory

The debate will have longer term effects
Hillary is part of the pack
She's no longer floating above the fray

Hillary's BIGGEST point was that she FLIP FLOPPED on IDs for illegal aliens !
Some triumph !
Did you notice, Iowa ?

She was still evasive, she didn't answer questions
On Social Security, she DIDN'T have specifics
If elected she'all APPOINT A COMMISSION on SS?
That's NOT LEADERSHIP !!
That's evasive

How will you lead this coutry if you don't tell us where you're going ?
Health Care ? Iraq ? Iran ?

Hillary claimed people were throwing 'mud' at her ?
WHO THREW MUD ?
WHEN ?
WHAT MUD ?
She sounded weak and whiney
When she has to send out her husband to defend her from 'Swift Boating' ?
She seems needy not strong

No knockout, but if THAT's all she has....

The moderator noted that there seemed to be a lot of Clinton supporters.
She packed the audience !!
Cute !!
Isn't THAT typical of the Clinton campaign ?

I doubt anybody but a Clinton cultist could think she did well....

COME ON IOWA !!
Come on New Hampshire !!

I must say, I've moved from having Obama as my first choice to having Edwards as my choice.
They're both good, but Edwards is more assertive...

GAME ON !!

Sierra, SF (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 10:42 AM)

That was a fun debate. I never considered supporting Biden prior to last night, but he impressed me both with his knowledge and his sense of humor. The fact that many Independents and Republicans might support him makes him a viable candidate. Clinton had a good night as well. Obama did give specific answers to questions, but he needs to develope more of a personality. Remember, likability is important in a presidential election. Edwards again gave very general answers and seemed to much of a rah-rah candidate. I am still leaning towards Obama, but am giving serious consideration to Biden.

Ron Jeffers (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 10:42 AM)

Lou Dobbs is a pompous windbag. He riles people up but does not provide solutions to problems. WHo will pick American crops and bus our restaurant tables - jobs that Americans do not want to do.

Bill Richardson had a good line at last nights debate: Tell Mexico to create jobs for its citizens so that they will not have to come to america for jobs. As long as the USA is the land of opportunity (thank God it is) people will come here to better themselves and make better lives for their children.

Oddly, if Dobbs runs he may get more votes than the Republican nominee and that would make for an interesting question about realignment of the political parties.

Rob Boston (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 10:43 AM)

Hillary did absolutely great. A shining star. And Wolf Blitzer, Campbell Brown and John Roberts were superb...they far outdid their "foaming at the mouth" rivals on MSNBC (Chris Matthews and Tim Russert). This debate was far better than the one 2 weeks ago. My husband and I loved Hillary before this debate, but after last night debate, we love her even more. She is the bright shining star that we have been looking for!!!!

And thank you again to the moderators at CNN. I don't think we will ever watch MSNBC anymore.... CNN is the best

Dorothy Goldstein, Phoenix, AZ (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 10:46 AM)

Oh Pish Posh

Poops McMasterson Chicago, IL (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 10:47 AM)

The reason I didn't vote at all in the last presidential election instead of voting for John Kerry was because it was clear that John Kerry was PRETENDING to be much more conservative than he really is and there was no way to know what he would really have done as president. In that respect, Hillary is exactly like Kerry (pretending to be more conservative than she really is) and, once again, I will not vote in the general election for the same reason, if the only choices are Hillary Special Interest Clinton vs Rudy I'd Still Invade Iraq Giuliani.

Ken Rhea, Stateline, NV

Ken Rhea, Stateline, NV (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 10:47 AM)

'...Clinton’s about-face on NAFTA from what she said about the trade deal just one year ago was striking (and perhaps something reporters look into). Nobody on stage jumped on it -- but it's perhaps a bigger flip she'll have to answer for than the war...'

WHAT DOES SHE STAND FOR ?

How will you 'lead' America if nobody knows what you stand for ?

Evasive little Hillary...
Please don't pick on her
Please don't throw 'mud'
She'll call Bill to get you

Where does she stand on Social Security ?
She'll appoint a commission
Republicans and Democrats ?
How about lobbyists ?
They're people, too

Hillary Clinton, cold, calculating, evasive, dishonest, unethical

Sierra, SF (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 10:48 AM)

"Clinton hosts a discussion on renewable energy before holding a campaign rally in Reno;"

Her flunky in the spin room last night said Clinton was flying back to DC for a very important vote.

Dave, Tn (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 10:52 AM)

Thank You First Read! Just when I think there is no news source left on the internet that will provide thoughtful, even-handed reporting and analysis of the presidential race, I come here and read the above. Personally, I thought no one did particularly well. Richardson might have had his best night, but that isn't saying much. Biden and Dodd come across as too senatorial, although I did really like that Dodd comment about the debate being "shrill" (wonder who that was directed towards). Kucinich seems on top of things, but it is a losing battle.

Jim L. Irmo, SC (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 10:53 AM)

Our next President should be Hillary Clinton. Last night she did great. Except for Biden no one else came close to her Ability to speak with strenghth. vigor and energy.

Anna omaha Ne (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 10:56 AM)

Making it sound like the audience was not packed with Hillary supporters is simply insulting. As for her supporters "booing" if that is "Presidential" then give me George Bush for another 4 years...oh wait...that IS what we get if "that woman" is elected.

Cherie, Des Moines, IA (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 10:58 AM)

'... But just how many of the rest were Clinton supporters? Because their booing when Edwards or Obama confronted Clinton was distracting to the candidates and threw them off. The audience was supposed to play a role via the questions they asked; instead, they played a MAJOR role in helping Clinton have home-field advantage...'

Unethical little Hillary
Did she plant the 'audience' ?
She can't help herself
It's the 'Clinton touch'
Karl Rove LIVES in the Clinton Campaign !!

She complained about the Republican playbook...
Mark Penn pulled out the Repub;ocanm playbook

Obama didn't win
Edwards didn't win

I think Hillary lost....

She FLIP FLOPPED on IDs for illegal aliens
She FLIP FLOPPED on NAFTA
She was evasive and dishonest on Scoial Security

She was whiney and weak !!
Poor little Hillary
Don't PICK ON HER !!

Sierra, SF (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 11:06 AM)

Hillary is looking extremely desperate. She's turned her campaign negative to try to starve off the rallies of both Obama and Edwards. Hillary is losing ground in the polls, so expect these attacks and mud-slinging from her to continue. What's unusual is that she's doing the negative campaigning rather then letting her surrogates do it. Troubled times for the Clinton campaign.

Rich Wood, Ames Iowa (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 11:08 AM)

Wolf sure got the Clinton threats because he gave her not just one but a few passes like when he asked her the immigration question and she said no. He then should've asked her why she had changed her mind for the tenth time. Obama was great, he again answered the questions his way, at his own time, as usual.

RuthieM (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 11:08 AM)

<<On the flip side, Clinton’s about-face on NAFTA from what she said about the trade deal just one year ago was striking (and perhaps something reporters look into). Nobody on stage jumped on it -- but it's perhaps a bigger flip she'll have to answer for than the war.>>

As long as CNN isn't the network doing it. Oh wait, they won't since they're all up her a-- drinking kool aid she's offering up there.

I'd love to see Russert and Matthews really attack this point. I'd love it even more if the other candidates, especially Obama and Edwards, did too. There's her differing positions on NAFTA then there is her support for the Peru deal and then her stating that her administration would put a temporary moritorium on all trade deals to give time to study them. Again, another seeming flip flop there. Which is it, Senator Clinton, do you support the deal in Peru or do you believe that they all should be subject to scrutiny. If it is the latter, why did you vote for the Peru deal?

Mike K, Denver (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 11:10 AM)

I think i am going to gain some weight today. I went and bought a box of pop corn. I think i am going to need it today. I just grab my first bag and open my pop. It is going to be so fun to watch all the rage and cry for fault troughout the day. A lot of fun

fun watcher (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 11:12 AM)

What will be today's most popular excuses for Hillary's resounding success and her two main rivals getting their comeuppance in last night's debate?

1- Wolf Blitzer is a CLINTON operative

2- The entire crowd was a plant.

3- CNN is the Clinton News Network (all purpose excuse)

4- The questions FAVORED Clinton.

5- The fix is in.

6- A conspiracy theory of your choice.

Van

vanreuter, NY NY (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 11:13 AM)

The biggest loser, as usual, was the American public.

1. Suzanne M. treated an audience member claim (racial profiling) as if it had been verified; it was just a claim.

2. The audience member question about the border contained a lie ( http://lonewacko.com/blog/archives/007241.html ); no one from CNN raised any doubts about the claim. I'm going to assume that was intentional, since Lou Dobbs is the only CNN anchor willing to tell the truth about the matter.

3. In addition to being wrong about DLs for IAs, there are at least *five* things wrong with Obama's answer to that question, none of which Wolf called him on:

http://lonewacko.com/blog/archives/007242.html

While it's good that Wolf got Obama laughed at, it would have been an actual public service if he had pointed out all of Obama's misleading and incomplete statements.

LonewackoDotCom, L.A. CA (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 11:13 AM)

The only people who can bury Edwards are THE MEDIA, and that's exactly what they are doing.

It must be good to have the corporate owned media doing your work for you, like Clinton does.

CNN had James Carville and David Gergen on last night, who both worked for Bill Clinton, and Carville with both of them.

MSNBC today will likely have on Democratic Strategists like Bill Press, Hilary Rosen, or Peter Fein who have done nothing all year but push Hillary Clinton and trash John Edwards.

It must be good to let the media do your work for you.

framecop, Raleigh, NC (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 11:16 AM)

I thank everyone who had clear thoughts on the debate, my dish went out when we got a snow storm so I missed the debate. But I was interested in the audience response, it shows a dem party that is fired up, I think in the end that is what will give us a victory next year. I know that some independants and fair wheather dems will not vote for THE HILL, so what, they don't speak for everyone, I do know that the excitment is in our camp, the repubs are floundering to come up with a candidate that can say change without condemning the current administration and that will eventually kill their chances.
YEHAH, YEHAH, GO DEMS. What ever happened to physic mary, I miss her.

John S. Alexander, Edinboro, PA (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 11:19 AM)

"Clinton ducked the drivers' license controversy" by answering no. Total BS. She was asked--as was Obama and everyone else--to answer yes or no. She and Biden both accurately understood the value of a succinct answer on this one. Too bad for Obama if he didn't. Just because neither Blitzer nor any of the other candidates followed up doesn't mean she ducked it. Get real. I know you guys want a race, but if last night's performance was any indication, Obama is way overrated and I wouldn't hold your breath. You want a race: go cover the Republicans.

Dazed and Confused in DC (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 11:19 AM)

The grades (objectively):

Clinton: A to A-
Obama: B-
Edwards: C- to D+

No one else matters, they're out of it. BTW, my favorite falls into the "no one else matters" category.

x

Stu, Saginaw, MI (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 11:21 AM)

Carrie nailed it:

Biden is the invisible man on these debates, but he has it all.

Hillary was excellent, well prepared, and most of all, poised. I despise the term, but she did look every inch "presidential."

Edwards faded.

Obama was the deer in the headlights in one of his final chances to be The Man.

Mark Thieme (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 11:21 AM)

Why do people not see that Joe Biden is hands down the most qualified candidate at every debate, including the republican ones. Every answer that the candidates give begins with “Joe is right” or “I agree with Joe”. Wake up people!

Chris, Parker, CO (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 11:22 AM)

I agree with Carrie, Biden appears to have the most experience, especially when it comes to foriegn policy. I like all of the Demacratic candidates and was leaning toward Edwards, however he appears to be shifting to the left and the other major candidates appear to be posturing based on the polls. Biden's message is clear and consistent. I think alot of us think Biden is the best most well equiped candidate but we don't think he is electable because he doesn't have alot of money and a massive campaign team. If all of us were picking just on the basis of who we thought was the best and not on who we think will win, Biden would have a much better showing in the polls. Also they have been comparing how the top three candidates would do against the Republican contenders but I haven't seen on on Biden against the top Republican contenders. I think it would be interesting. Also I would think that Biden would do very well with independents and moderate Republicans. It appears that most people feel that Biden would make a great Secretary of State, then why not commander in chief. Go Joe.

Larry Albany ny (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 11:27 AM)

Last night's debate more civil? I don't remember any booing at the Philly debate. Maybe those polite and polished Philadelphians are just too refined to boo. I guess Harry Reid's son couldn't get any of his shills into that audience. I guess if softball questions to Hillary and cutting off the responses of the others, by Wolf, is more civil, then Stella, you got what you wanted. Read the comments this AM. Overwhelmingly, the readership feels that the debate was a set-up to help Hillary after her fiasco last time. I have to say that she was definitely was more polished this time but she still said nothing! She said things that were contradictory to her votes and behavior and still (if not more than ever) played the sisterhood card. Each time I watched her recite her scripted responses, as written by Mark Penn, I could only pray that the general electorate of the Democratic party would be insightful enough to see through the sham; I know that the Iowans are. Diamonds v. pearls, comfortable in the kitchen, sheesh!

And the booing, wow! Ya' think Wolf might have asked that the booing be curtailed? Not in his job description? Funny how Hillary wasn't on the receiving end of any of the booing. Oh, yeah, I should have realized, her answers were just, so right on.
Obama '08

Mitchell B. Feldman, Vestal, NY (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 11:28 AM)

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester,NY: '...I can't wait to see sierra's, and jerry's comments on Hillary's performance last night...'

I won't keep you waiting, Merle..

She effectively slipped jabs from Obama and Edwards, and counterpunched methodically....'

She didn't win
She was evasive and slippery...
Her 'highlight' (sic) was FLIP FLOPPING on national TV over IDs for illegal aliens...
Clever...

If you noticed, Merle she's no longer being coronated
Hillary is one of the pack, fighting for the nomination
What happened to her 'entitlement' to the Presidency ?

'...candidates aren't picking on her because she's a woman, they're attacking her because she's the frontrunner...'

Hillary sounded weak and whiney last night
Hillary didn't sound like a stron leader

What MUD ?
Who's picking on Hillary ?

'...I loved the crowd response to that one!...'

The moderator thought she might have 'packed' the house
Unethical ?
Clintonesque ?

'...And speaking of the audience, who would have thought she'd get THAT kind of response from people in The Nevada State Democratic Party, and the students and faculty of UNLV? They LOVED her! They also showed Obama and Edwards what most of us think of their mud-slinging republican-like campaign tactics...'

Packing the house is a Bush style tactic
Unethical
Weak and whiney
NOT a LEADER

'...Sorry sierra, but yo' boys didn't "finish her" as you said they would...'

I hoped they would
They didn't
Hillary is revealing her weaknesses...
AND she's no longer above the field

'...
GO HILLARY!!!
Clinton for President 2008!!!...'

or maybe not
She may have laid the gourndwork for her defeat
Iowans may not be impressed with her debating tactics
or her neediness

A little too cute and too dishonest

Hillary Clinton, 15 years of dishonesty, scandals and divisiveness

Sierra, SF (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 11:28 AM)

I must be out of step with this "Big Three" fascination that has gripped the media (and possibly the electorate); I don't see why Senators Clinton, Edwards, and Obama are being hyped so much. Senator Clinton is smart and authoritative, and she exudes a certain amount of gravitas, so she's probably the strongest candidate of those particular three. That being said, her answers are elliptical, overly-general, and obviously the result of focus-group work and polling. Senator Obama is smart and authoritative, but he's way too inexperienced to project gravitas just yet; I'd put him at number two amongst "The Big Three." Senator Edwards may be smart, but that's about it....

I found Senator Biden and Governor Richardson to be the winners of last night's debate; they were more precise with regards to where they stand on various policy issues and looked less infantile that the "Big Three," who spent much of their time bickering like disgruntled siblings and dancing around the actual issues. Mr. Biden and Mr. Richardson are also more realistic regarding foreign policy than any of the "Big Three" in that they have pragmatic, proactive plans that do not come across as sloganeering platitudes so much as solid examples of thoughtful policy derived from years of experience. Are these guys too serious regarding the important issues to be elected by today's superficial electorate?

Chris Hassel, Saint Paul, Minnesota (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 11:29 AM)

Clinton set up the Audience once again; I wonder how many people she planted out there this time. She is by far the worse candidate for American Presidency! The only smart thing she has done was keep her mouth shut, and stick to her one word answers. She's too scared of going into detail due to her not knowing what to say. She’s a prefabricated machine without emotion. The day Hillary becomes president is the day I become a citizen of another country. God save this country!

Jim Wilson, Ny, NY (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 11:30 AM)

I have watched every single one of these debates (everyone that has been televised anyways). I'm done. No one says anything new. None of these candidates are especially exciting. Few of these candidates if any support the founding fathers ideals or the constitution for that matter, but hey they are better than Republicans. I wonder how long the aforementioned is going to be a winning strategy for Dems? I'll show up on election day for them, but come on, if I don't see some real results:
Social Security solvency
Carbon Tax
Electric Car mandate and tax redemption
Repeal of the patriot act
Withdrawal from the Mideast
Enforcement of free trade
Comprehensive immigration reform
National Healthcare

Then I'm done. I'll exploit the stock market like the rest of the richest 1 percent of the country, get ridiculously rich and leave. I used to want to stay because of the principles, but hearing all of the candidates pick national security over human rights was the last straw. Though the GOP has turned downright evil and dictatorial, the Dems have turned into pussies. This from a nation which was spawned by great thinkers AND strong men who said,
"Give me liberty or give me death"- Patrick Henry
"They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety"- Ben Franklin
"Our legislators are not sufficiently apprized of the rightful limits of their power; that their true office is to declare and enforce only our natural rights... and to take none of them from us."- Thomas Jefferson
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."- Thomas Jefferson

I hope our citizenry can rescue itself from the depths of fear which it has been trapped in.

Desperate, Overland Park kansas (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 11:31 AM)

"What will be today's most popular excuses for Hillary's resounding success and her two main rivals getting their comeuppance in last night's debate?

1- Wolf Blitzer is a CLINTON operative

2- The entire crowd was a plant.

3- CNN is the Clinton News Network (all purpose excuse)

4- The questions FAVORED Clinton.

5- The fix is in.

6- A conspiracy theory of your choice."

I'll take the 2-3 combo.

Anonymouse, Rolla, MO (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 11:31 AM)

Yes ladies. I'm sure we're all so glad that it's finally been settled that Hillary! likes BOTH pearls AND diamonds. I can finally rest easy knowing my country is secure in this knowledge.

Kudos to CNN for sparing us the swimsuit competition portion of this pageant.

soccersecuritymom (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 11:31 AM)

Remember this.Even though Hillary has the money,democratic brass ranks,corporate interests, and media behind her, this is not going to be good enough.Edwards is taking Iowa then he will explode.People are no longer fooled by polls,media biased,etc.....In the end it is the people that will decide, and the people will chose Edwards.Rember this comment and bank on it!

Gary,Walhalla,SC (Sent Friday, November 16, 2007 11:33 AM)

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