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First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



Fred fires off at opponents on guns

Posted: Saturday, November 24, 2007 8:22 AM by Domenico Montanaro



From NBC/NJ’s Adam Aigner-Treworgy
LACONIA, NH -- Fred Thompson kicked off what he called the “fourth quarter” of his campaign on Friday with a stop at Skip’s Gun & Sport Shop in Bristol, NH. Combined with his visit to the Thompson Center gun factory on his last trip to the Granite State earlier this month, Thompson has now held two gun-related events in New Hampshire since announcing his candidacy for president, which he admitted yesterday was not an accident.

“I’ve had some good relationships with gun-owner organizations over the years and supported [them] when I was in the congress,” Thompson said, “and I think it’s kind of a forgotten issue right now. In this primary we need to remember that those [second amendment] rights are always an issue, and some of my opponents have bad records and no records, and I have a solid record in support of the second amendment, and I’m not embarrassed to remind anybody of that.”

Thompson was also not afraid to point out which of his opponents he feels are especially weak on gun owners’ rights, saying that the starkest difference exists between himself and Giuliani.

“[Giuliani] simply supported just about every gun control legislation that came down the pipe, and I just disagree with him on that,” Thompson said. “I saw he was at bill signing ceremonies with Chuck Schumer and President Clinton and others for gun control legislation over the years and was very outspoken about it. Of course, he’s not as outspoken about it anymore. But it’s a major differentiation.

“He relates everything to New York City, well New York City is not emblematic of the rest of the country, I don’t think, and I think the sentiments of those people in the rest of the country are in strong support of the second amendment. It’s where I’ve always been, and I don’t think he’s ever been.”

Thompson also said he was confident that the Supreme Court would decide in favor of gun owners when they hear a case regarding Washington, D.C.’s handgun ban early next year. The case has huge implications for gun owners across the country and Thompson said he believed the court would “once and for all make it clear to everybody that the second amendment means what it says and that people have the right to carry firearms.”

In repeating his call for increased defense spending and a “million member ground force” Thompson also added a new line today about the weakening defense systems of many of our allies. At an afternoon appearance at the Laconia, N.H., VFW hall, Thompson said that in Europe, “some of these countries are spending like one percent or one and half percent of their economy on their own defense,” leaving the United States with virtually no allies to turn to if attacked again.

“[Europe] couldn’t defend themselves if they were called upon to defend themselves today,” Thompson said. “Guess who they’d turn to -- the people that they criticize, you know, about ever 48 hours one way or another. Well who have we got to turn to? Nobody, except ourselves.”

European Union defense spending is difficult to quantify precisely due currency fluctuations and vast disparities between defense budgets within the EU, but according to a 2005 study released by the EU, in 2004 the United States spent more than twice as much on defense as the 25 European nations combined.

*** UPDATE *** The Giuliani campaign responds: "Coming from a man who lives in the Beltway, who is a Washington insider and lobbyist and who played the role Rudy Giuliani actually lived on a television series, I am not sure what to make of the Senator's comments except to say results are results,” writes Katie Levinson, Giuliani’s communications director. “Time and again as US Attorney, the third ranking official in the Reagan Justice Department and as Mayor of New York, Rudy Giuliani delivered, and no amount of political posturing will change that. Mayor Giuliani is a strong supporter of the second amendment and believes our focus should be on making sure criminals are the ones who can't get guns. It's the same tough on crime approach Rudy took as Mayor, which reduced the number of murders by 66 percent and the number of shootings by 70 percent in New York City.”

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Yup, Fred, Europe is busy wasting their time getting rich with very little military spending in their budget, while we spend half our GDP on defense and our dollar craters.  We're sure smarter than they are, huh?

Oh, and the fourth quarter of the campaign started eight weeks ago...
Anyone interested in some telling Thompson video from his first week on the trail in SC and an accompanying column should try:
http://goupstate.us/index.php/lanefiller/2007/11/05/fred_thompson_for_president_of_what_the_

Gun owners, listen up! Thompson is the real thing when it comes to the 2nd amendment and Guiliani's a
phony when he states that he is a supporter of gun owner rights. BE CAREFUL WHO YOU VOTE FOR!
Gun owners, listen up! Thompson is the real thing when it comes to the 2nd amendment and Guiliani's a
phony when he states that he is a supporter of gun owner rights. BE CAREFUL WHO YOU VOTE FOR!
BUSH SUCKS ! IMPEACH BUSH !
Hmmm, wonder why he picked thanksgiving weekend when no one is paying attention? Curious.
Even though I will be voting Democratic as always, I am a big supporter of individuals maintaining the ability to defend themselves and believe that an armed citizenry is one of the checks and balances that the founders intended...perhaps the ultimate check and balance. Allowing your governments Police and military to be the only one's with weapons is foolish in the extreme although I have no problem with registration, screening, and waiting periods. These wise constraints should trouble no honest gun owner.
Remember!  The strong will servie and the weak will perish.
Campaign Diaries just released its latest installment of detailed race-by-race House ratings, with all the latest news: http://www.campaigndiaries.com/houserankings
The fact that Thompson, for whatever reason, really believes that gun rights is a major issue facing the nation at this point in time illustrates everything that's wrong with his campaign. Word to the wise, Fred old man; for most of us, on the list of "Issues We Think Need to be Addressed Today", protecting the rights of people to own assault weapons or handguns ranks somewhere just below requiring that all crossing guards wear orange rather than lime safety vests.

There are some SERIOUSLY big issues facing us right now, and fretting about gun rights simply isn't among them.  Take care of that deficit that your Republican friends created, come up with a way to deal with illegal immigration via employer enforcement (cut off the demand, you'll cut off the supply), oh, and come up with a way to extract our fellow Americans who are stuck babysitting an unwilling Arab food fight in the desert. Get those taken care of first, then you can worry about whether ensuring that no one says boo regarding hunting rights is really a pressing issue.

Keep going the way you are, and at least you'll be comforted by knowing that you will definitely be able to go home and sleep in your own bed every night come mid-January.
Ok, so this won't be approved...so what.

Half our GDP? Use hyperbole much?

While we likely do spend more than necessary on our Military (especially in light of current events) 'getting rich' at the expense of defense is all well and good right up until you get attacked.

And let's not even pretend that 'war' is over, that's been claimed before and was wrong every single time...
Fred is a little weak on one gun issue. That's the gun issued to you when you're in the military. I'd like to hear his reason for not getting one of those. (Hopefully it's not another GOP Hemorrhoid Deferrment.)
Think about what's more important.  Our economy and our money is not safe if we can't protect it.  To protect it we must protect our lives.  To protect our lives and our livelihood, we must have a strong military. A temporary drop in our dollar is a small price to pay.
Their so called "Euro's" will not be easy to spend if they are taken over and everything is confiscated. History does repeat itself and people forget very easily.  I do not think the poor Jewish people prefered to have money they could not spend when Hitler took over.  I am sure they would have preferred their freedom.  If you do not think it could happen, think again.
The more Fred opens his mouth, the less of a chance he has to go anywhere.  He is pandering to the extreme right of the new republican party.  His interviews remind me on the clue-less GW interviews, which were painful to anyone except his 25%.  I love watching the new republican party self destruct.  They are giving the democratic party a run for their money as to which one can self destruct more completely.  By election time there will be none standing...
The US military budget for 2007 was not quite $533 billion.  The US GDP is in excess of $13 trillion.  

Check your facts before making such reckless inflammatory, not to mention, untruthful, remarks.
Shadow, since when has a high level of military spending ever been a hindrance to high economic growth?  US military spending is only 3.7% of GDP. For the vast majority of the 20th century since WWII, it was significantly higher.
Rudy Giuliani says he supports the Second Ammendment, but it's all talk.  He spent his entire administration working against lawful gun owners.  New York State and New York (along with D.C.) have some of the most anti-gun laws in the nation.  Anyone heard of the Sullivan Act?
IF HILLARY COMES FOR MY GUNS SHE CAN HAVE THEM. ONE BULLET AT A TIME.
mr. pierce, is there a reason you make things up?

truth a little to hard for you ?
Fred's right. Europe is going to regret not keeping their military healthy as Islamic fascism rises in their cities.  Witness Paris last week, "Islamic youths" rioting again.  It's only a matter of time...
So, this is what grasping at straws looks like.
Gentlemen -

Europe has the US as an ally if there's any trouble, getting richer and richer while we bankrupt ourselves with military spending - if you want to argue that we look like the smarter ones in that equation, go right ahead.

You guys sound like I want to abolish the entire military, but that would actually be against the second amendment if you read the whole thing.  I just want us to cut the majority of our Pentagon spending, particularly the parts that blow billions on test missions, expensive outdated weaponry, and bloated corrupt government contracts.  Take out all that crap, and you have enough to increase the size of the military by 100,000, increase veteran benefits, and still cut the overall Pentagon budget by 60%.  

Or, if you prefer we we can go further and further into debt, until China owns us.  What sounds like a better national security plan to you?
I would very much like to see a liberal/Democratic candidate who enthusiastically supports gun rights. The right to defend oneself with lethal force if necessary, and the right to access the means to do so, is in my opinion as important a civil liberty as any other cause that liberals typically support. It's also one we should value more within our own political culture. We're never going to disarm NASCAR nation through legislation. Therefore, we should make sure we can aim just as well. As Heinlein said, an armed society is a polite one.
Dear old Fred bothers me two ways: he acknowledged that he voted for bills without reading them or knowing their content and he seems to show signs of mental decline which are associated with aging.  I hope he returns to Law and Order which may be his best political role.
If you want someone who has always stood for the rights of individuals and has the voting record to prove it, take a look at Ron Paul.

Ron Paul 2008!
...i'm confused on the europe getting rich part...

(i'm from alabama, help me out some please)

the US unemployment is around 4.7%.

EU unemployment is around 7%, with three of the big four (germany, france, italy, britain--but not britain, because they are pushing 5 themselves...) pushing around 10% unemployment.

if you could explain that to me, i would be very appreciative. use small words.

tim

(pronounced tee-um)
The gun issue is going to be a big yawn in this election.  The fact is, most Dems don't want to take away everybody's guns nor is gun control a particular priority for either the Dem candidates or the Dem base.  

I suppose it could be pumped up into a wedge issue for the purposes of the Republican primary but will be pretty irrelevant in the general.  Speaking as gun owning Dem, a very common species, there are so many more important things to worry about, you righties can all keep your guns for all I care. Be my guest. Whatever.  

That's how much passion you can expect from  most of us Dems on this issue.  Good luck turning that into something to get people hysterical over.
Ummmm.....   could someone explain to a dumb European what your ability to kill each other off as individuals in your homes, streets, schools, and workplaces has to do with national defence spending ?
All I hear is fear in the comments of gun advocates.  "we must protect our lives" someone said.  This is a weak minded mentality - constantly being afraid of someone else.  I'm asking gun advocates honstly - is the reason you want a gun because you are afraid.
Fred Thompson is such a perfect example of what is wrong with this country. Why do republicans hate the United States?
If the NRA wanted to get involved in the handgun debate, why didn't they change their acronym to the NHGA? What do the National Police Officers organisation think? Surely they are far more important than the NRA.
You know one group that gets hurt badly when the dollar is weak?  Our troops overseas. When the dollar goes down, their spending power goes down with it.

So, the President is hurting the troops in more ways than one.

I find it funny that Fred Thompson only finds time to campaign during a time when everyone else will already be out. Kind of a lazy way to get attention, don't you think?
Ron Paul for Gun Owners.

Ron Paul Smokes (no pun intended) the other candidates when it comes to gun rights.

http://www.ronpaul2008.com
Simply having a powerful military changes behavior of erstwhile enemies.  The calculations of others must always account for the U.S. dominant military position.  The world trade system also requires the U.S. police the sea lanes, etc.  If the U.S. were to withdraw from the role, the amount of wealth wiped from the world economic system due to instability would be a very large number, exceeding by far the economic cost of the U.S. military itself. The Europeans are selfish and foolish in the extreme by not funding for their own survival.  If you doubt that there is an economic cost to instability, then take note of the economic hits attributable to mere terrorism.  
Must be a boring weekend.  People are blogging about Fred.  My grass grew a little today -- pretty exiting stuff.  Cower in fear from the big bad Muslims, hate the Mexicans, laugh at the Europeans, and kiss the butt of the Totalitarian Chinese state in the name of trade.  Quite an impressive candidate you've got there.
As a conservative christian I have no need for a gun. But I do own two rifles and was once a very good marksman. I do not believe they should be removed from private ownership. I do believe they can be banned from certain areas like Schools, inside the job, Government Offices without proper authority, and wherever alcohol is being served.
 I am trying to support Fred in my own way. I don't believe in killing people but acknowledge that wars, capital punishment, and defense of private property has made it necessary in some cases.  If you want to do the crime, and you are to mean to do the time, then it is time to go from this Earth. Death suit some people quite well. There are several that have wasted our time and our efforts by still being here. Like Nike says' just do it! Death becomes them cause nothing else matters.
Right to life and sub machine guns. Hoooo, boy. That is one impressive platform.

"“[Europe] couldn’t defend themselves if they were called upon to defend themselves today,” Thompson said. “Guess who they’d turn to -- the people that they criticize, you know, about ever 48 hours one way or another. Well who have we got to turn to? Nobody, except ourselves.”"

So sayeht Full Moon Fred.


Baaaawwwooooooooo!!!!!!!! Full moon last night.
I believe Fred has the right approach, but he does not use the exact words that I would; however, our ideals are common. Their are many sportsman in the USA and gun owners who abide by the law. The second amendment “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed” means that the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. If you look at Iraq it was illegal for people to keep and bear arms under the control of Saddam Hussein. People did so illegally, but most of the Iraqis did not want to retaliate against the USA as many Iraqis have told me because they wanted Saddam out of power. We have the best defense force in the world, but if the States or Federal government could not protect us we would not want our civil liberties taken away from us. As for handguns they do scare people, but I believe that every citizen in the country has the right to protect life, property, and limb because there are not enough law enforcement in the USA to protect everyone from crime, so concealed weapons are good since they are not in the open. The Federal government and the State government should keep promoting safety and marksman classes and the government does make money off of law abiding gun owners for their gun permits or registration of firearms, which the individual person is responsible for that firearm. We should keep the heritage of this country and not allow gun control advocates to take our right away to bear arms and rely solely on the National Guard as a Militia.
Okay, pretty much everyone posting on this thread got sucked into the wedge-issue debate, so score one for Thompson.  It's a non-issue, no one is going to try to take our guns away. At the most there might be some more stringent regs on waiting periods, assault rifles, etc.   When the republicans run out of real issues, it's always time for a wedgie, enter the three mighty G's: Guns, God, and Gays.  Be afraid, the Democrats are gonna take your guns, outlaw church and hire gays to teach/indoctrinate your kids. We'll protect you, vote against your own best interest because we bring up this happy horse--it every time.  The best thing to do when this type of thing comes up is yawn and move on to another thread, folks.
80 Million gunowners in America not including their family members...That's a few votes for the only frontrunner with the right stuff who can win this election. Go Fred!!

BTW, Giuliani is even worse on our 2nd Amendment than you folks know;

Giuliani didn't just illegally deprive New Yorkers of their Constitutional rights, he brought a lawsuit against ALL of the major firearm manufacturers which if it had succeeded would have bankrupted every one of them.

Then it was an easily predictable outcome in bringing the lawsuit that no more new firearms would be made in America! Here, read it from his own press releases;

Archives of the Mayor's Press Office on June 20th, 2000
Mayor Giuliani and Speaker Vallone Announce City Lawsuit Against Gun Industry.
http://www.nyc.gov/html/om/html/2000a/pr238-00.html

"Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani and City Council Speaker Peter F. Vallone, joined by Corporation Counsel Michael Hess, today announced that the City of New York has filed a lawsuit against two dozen major gun manufacturers and distributors."

Archives of The Mayor's Weekly Column
Archives of Rudolph W. Giuliani
June 26, 2000
http://www.nyc.gov/html/records/rwg/html/2000a/weekly/wkly0626.html


"It is our hope that this suit will result in substantial financial awards to the City for the many ways in which illegal practices and illegal guns harm New Yorkers"


Archives of Rudolph W. Giuliani
Mayor's Message March 2, 1997
http://www.nyc.gov/html/records/rwg/html/97a/me970302.html

"We need a federal law that bans all assault weapons."

"The United States Congress needs to pass uniform licensing for everyone carrying a gun."

Citizens Crime Comission
Archives of Rudolph W. Giuliani
March 6, 1997
http://www.nyc.gov/html/records/rwg/html/97a/ccc.html

"...we may be able to find some sort of meaning in this tragedy by using it as a catalyst to revive national gun control efforts."

Archives of Rudolph W. Giuliani
Mayor's Message
March 9, 1997
http://www.nyc.gov/html/records/rwg/html/97a/me970309.html
"We must continue to build on our city's success in reducing crime. And that means working for a stricter national gun licensing law. So in states like Florida, it would be more difficult to get a gun license than it would be to get a driver's license.

I applaud President Clinton's recent proposal to Congress to prohibit all foreign visitors from buying or carrying a gun. But it should go further, much further. And what we should have are national uniform gun licensing laws so that guns, like automobiles and drivers, would be subjected to reasonable licensing procedures.

If indeed Congress heeds its moral obligation and enacts this kind of legislation, perhaps some good can come from the terrible tragedy at the Empire State Building."

New York City Charter Revision: Making Proven Reforms Permanent by Rudolph W. Giuliani

http://www.nyc.gov/html/records/rwg/html/99b/me991101.html

A "yes" vote will help cement our City's gains in improving public safety… because one of the reforms is a tough gun-safety provision that will require trigger locks on all guns purchased in New York City, and impose strict penalties for failure. There's also a provision creating "gun free" safety zones around every school, giving us tough new tools to protect our children from gun violence."

Once and For All, Let's End Parole by Rudolph W. Giuliani January 25, 1998
http://www.nyc.gov/html/records/rwg/html/98a/me980125.html

"If we do this - and successfully advocate other crucial changes in state and federal law, including strong federal gun control legislation..."
Never a War they did not like, never a War they would
fight.  

            Peter Hinds  Vietnam class of 69
Thompson and Huckabee appear to be the only contenders that truly support our right to bear arms.  

If you support this right, I urge you to take my challenge and visit www.abuckforhuck.com

With your help, he will make a difference!
Wil. They don't hate everybody. Just the 75 per cent who are beneath them.
REGISTRATION,TAXIATION,CONVERCASATION !! Gun owners remember this ! Here in New Jersey, weapons purchased
legaly, with the stroke of her pen, Whitman made so many law abiding citizens felond by posessing legally purchased weapons !
Fred picked up the old play book and is running with it, gun ownership will not be an issue so why is Fred using outmoded scare tactics? Every Repub. candidate is picking their issue de jour, McCain is the war, Rudy is I am the real repub., Mitt is I am ghost of Ronnie, Huckabee is I am not George and I pray more, Tancredo is I hate brown people, Paul is another I am not George candidate or like any other repub. candidate. Funny only one seems to have an issue, McCain, the others are still playing at being the man rather than making themselves a real candidate. Fred is using the southern strategy, guns and race cars are nice but would it raise his numbers throughout the rest of the country? I don't think so. Tommorrow, over a million PA. deer hunters will go into the woods, with all those guns in the woods you would think that the bullets will be flying everywhere, almost all of the deaths are from heart attacks, a million hunters and the safty record is great. Shows that their are more smart gun owners than people want to admit, this issue will disapear and Fred will disapear soon.
"The fact that Thompson, for whatever reason, really believes that gun rights is a major issue facing the nation at this point in time illustrates everything that's wrong with his campaign." ~Marcus, Chicago (Sent Saturday, November 24, 2007 10:42 AM)

Oh, you mean when there is currently a major 2nd Amendment Rights issue being considered by the Supreme Court? It seems to me that Fred Thompson is addressing this at an exceedingly important time.

"It's a non-issue, no one is going to try to take our guns away." ~ Doug, San Diego (Sent Saturday, November 24, 2007 3:58 PM)

That's exactly what Washington, D.C. is trying to do in the case before the Supreme Court.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-11-20-scotus-guns_N.htm
Jimmy Jo:

You were asking why gun advocates are afraid and who of? Well, our government has already started to take our rights away with the "Patriot Act", for starters. We fear our government, that is who we fear. Our Government is no longer interested in the rights of the American people. Our government is now being driven by Big Corporations, it is no longer about serving the people as it was intended to be. The only protection we have are the right to bear arms, and some politicians want to take that away too, that is what gun advocates are afraid of, well at least I am. OUR FREEDOM and LIBERTY is at stake here, and the rest of the world needs to know that as well. I guess the people that have been actively watching are the only ones that see what our government is doing here. You may want to do further research on the Patriot Act as well, so you can see what rights you no longer have. By the way Giuliani is probably part of that big corporation driven machine, he is not for the people, and I am willing to bet on that.
Ron Paul is another strong supporter of the rights to bear arms, and the rights of the American people as a whole.

http://RonPaul2008.com
The people who feel the need to whine & kvetch so much over their "right" to brandish weapons, and who celebrate that as some kind of "culture," are exactly the kind of nutjobs we should keep guns AWAY from.

Check the 2nd Amendment.  The whole justification is maintaining a "militia."  News flash:  We don't have citizen militias anymore, we have an actual defense department and police forces and other official entities.  We don't need hillbillies hiding in the barn with rifles to protect ourselves.
The people who feel the need to whine & kvetch so much over their "right" to brandish weapons, and who celebrate that as some kind of defining "culture," are exactly the kind of nutjobs we should keep guns AWAY from.

Check the 2nd Amendment.  The whole justification is maintaining a "militia."  News flash:  We don't have citizen militias anymore, we have an actual defense department and police forces and other official entities.  We don't need hillbillies hiding in the barn with rifles to protect ourselves.


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