ABOUT FIRST READ

First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



First thoughts: It's time to YouTube

Posted: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 9:24 AM by Mark Murray
Filed Under:

From Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, Domenico Montanaro, and Julia Steers
*** Let’s get ready to YouTube: It was ridiculed -- Romney said “the presidency ought to be held at a higher level than having to answer questions from a snowman" -- and later postponed, which sparked plenty of discussion that the Republicans treat the Internet as if it’s a tax increase or a liberal judge. But tonight, the GOP CNN/YouTube presidential debate finally takes place. It comes more than a month since the last Republican debate, and at the very time the GOP race is truly heating up. Romney and Rudy are grappling over immigration, crime statistics, and which of them more resembles Hillary Clinton. Thompson is piling on Giuliani for his position on guns. McCain has just come back from Iraq, while Paul -- whose supporters were inspired by 17th-century revolutionary Guy Fawkes -- has raked in millions of dollars in the last few weeks. And Huckabee, despite a lack of money and organization, now looks to be a serious player in Iowa.

*** The skinny: Eight Republicans -- Giuliani, Huckabee, Hunter, McCain, Paul, Romney, Tancredo, and Thompson -- will receive plenty of questions on these issues and others, with help from various questioners (including that snowman?) via YouTube videos. The debate airs from St. Petersburg, FL beginning at 8:00 pm ET, and it’s moderated by CNN’s Anderson Cooper. Just in time for tonight’s showdown, a CNN/Opinion Research poll has Giuliani leading Florida at 38% -- followed by Romney at 17%, McCain and Thompson at 11%, Huckabee at 9%, and Paul at 5%. A new Insider Advantage/Majority Opinion poll also has Rudy in the lead in Florida at 26%. But the rest is different: Huckabee is in second at 17%, McCain is third at 13%, Romney is fourth at 12%, and Thompson is fifth at 9%.

*** Huck’s rise and challenge: That last poll shows that Huckabee is even gaining momentum outside of Iowa. Indeed, besides Hillary Clinton going on the offensive against Obama, Huckabee’s rise in the polls could very well be the biggest political story in the last couple of weeks. But starting at tonight’s debate, Huckabee will receive more scrutiny about his record in Arkansas (especially when it comes to taxes and immigration). Oppo from various rival campaigns is now circulating, and needless to say, folks, these stories are coming. Can Huckabee deflect them? Also, perhaps the most fascinating piece of the day comes courtesy of a longtime Arkansas political columnist, John Brummett, who seems to credit Huckabee's media skills to his VERY early days as a radio DJ. Brummett contends that Huckabee's true genius is his use of the media and notes he's been media savvy in every position he's held, from his Baptist preacher days to governor to presidential candidate.

*** More Clinton vs. Obama: A day isn't going to go by between now and January 3 (or perhaps January 26) when there isn't a significant back-and-forth between the two Dem front-runners. Today, the issue is health care -- again. The Clinton campaign is driving this and driving it in Iowa. Perhaps they see this as an opportunity to play up what has been a strength in polling that she's more credible talking about health care than on any other issue. More importantly, even though talking about health care brings up 1993, that seems to be OK with Camp Clinton because in '93, Obama was just a few years out of law school, so it also provides subtle experience contrast. But the Obama camp is now getting just as aggressive on this issue, trying to push back on this mandate issue, claiming that in 1994, Clinton wasn't always pro-mandate. Clinton folks vehemently deny that this hit has any merit. Bottom line: another day, another back-and-forth on health care with Clinton doing the attacking. Interestingly, Obama's attempting to do on health care what Clinton successfully did on Iraq -- blur the distinctions between the two.

*** Bill vs. Ron Fournier: Meanwhile, another day of Bill Clinton on the campaign trail results in another apparent misstep by Bill. Yesterday, the former president declared that he had been opposed to the Iraq from the beginning, although the record seems to suggest otherwise. The reporter who caught the misstep was none other than the scribe who might know Bill the best: the AP’s Ron Fournier. What's more interesting about Bill's claim? He was very careful not to repeat it at other stops -- subtlely changing his speech text from "opposed" to "opposes." The double-edged sword of Bill on the trail: Everyone wants to listen to what he has to say, and every reporter tries to find some contradiction. And so far, he has delivered something to help his wife and to help reporters tracking him.

VIDEO: Chuck Todd offers his first read on Clinton's claims and Dems' renewed attacks on heath care.

*** On the trail: Elsewhere today, Biden, in Des Moines, addresses the Iowa Association of Counties; Clinton also is in city, where she discusses health care; Kucinich remains in New Hampshire; and McCain, in South Carolina, holds a town hall at Clemson University before tonight’s debate. Also, Brownback stumps for McCain in Iowa, and Michelle Obama also is in the Hawkeye State.

Countdown to Iowa: 36 days
Countdown to New Hampshire: 41 days
Countdown to Michigan: 48 days
Countdown to Nevada and SC GOP primary: 52 days
Countdown to SC Dem primary: 59 days
Countdown to Florida: 62 days
Countdown to Tsunami Tuesday: 69 days
Countdown to Election Day 2008: 342 days
Countdown to Inauguration Day 2009: 419 days

Click here to sign up for First Read emails.

MAIN PAGE

Email this EMAIL THIS

Comments

CitizenJ.....raising taxes isn't the solution for restoring SS. Putting the money in a closed trust fund is. Obama gets a D- on this one (If this is really his position, since we never hear it from him directly)

There is no such thing as a "residual support force"....every "troop" in the military is a combat troop.

Obama's plan leaves people uninsured. Hillary's plan MANDATES coverage for everyone. Deal with it.

Regardless of your theory on public safety, 65% of the American People do not want illegal aliens to get driver's licenses. Yet Barrack Obama STILL insists they should. Why should we vote for someone who ignores whath the majority of Americans want?

...oh and I see we're a little sensitive about the Antoin Rezko thing aren't we? Antoin Rezko is an INDICTED political raketeer....he's Obama's friend and the two of them are involved in a joint land deal. I'm sorry you (and Obama, apparently) feel the The American People aren't entitled to an explanation.

Oh and one last thing.....there are a lot of VETERANS out there like myself who are offended by Obama's overt lack of respect for the American Flag. How dare you tell me or anyone else who respects the flag to get a life! There are a lot of men and woman who died for that flag and for what it represents. How dare Obama spit on their memory that way! Why does he hates the very country he wants to be President of?

I've done my research citizen.....you listen to Obama and take whatever he says at face value because the "we hate the clintons" crowd says you should. He uses NEO-CON rhetoric from the 1990's, sings the G.O.P. mantra about the Clintons, divides liberals and Democrats with his hateful, mean spirited pomposity....and when all is said and done we who support Hillary are told that we aren't allowed to have our own thought process or make our own choices. We MUST get in lockstep with YOU and with Obama or we're caving into media pressure.
Sorry.....but that just isn't going to wash.
Stop living in a dreamworld, get your feet planted on the ground and face reality.
Obama isn't going anywhere.




Hillary Clinton...intelligent...experienced...strong leader.

Vote for Hillary


An UNPAID polical message
What exactly is the Hopefund, Mr. Obama?

This country is based on values and character....who will you vote for to lead the country our ancestors faught and died for???  

Can you honestly say the Clintons have values and character?
Out of curiosity, why is asking about Obama's lack of lapel pin or not putting his hand over his heart during the national anthem any different than all of the comments about Hillary's laugh?

Oops, I forgot.  It's Obama - that's how it is different.  We can question every minute detail of Hillary's existence, but how DARE anyone ask questions about Obama.
".....Hillary Bo Peep....."

".....'Battle Axe Hillary'....."

These are just two of the names Sierra called Hillary so far today. Never mind the last 4 months or so.

Now, get this....."J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY the 'official' Spokesvillian for the Clinton smear campaign".....

MOMMY, I HIT HILLARY AND SHE HIT ME BACK! Waaaaaah!That's what you're really saying, isn't it sierra?
Let me ask you this.....how does it feel to be attacked BACK?
If Obama and his supporters don't want to be hit back, then they shouldn't have engaged in slash and attack politics to begin with, and they should stop it NOW.
Otherwise you're going to get it right back in return.

Barrack Obama......embraces the politics of personal destruction, associates himself with indicted political racketeers, HATES our flag and what it stands for. Why should THIS man be President?

HILLARY FOR PRESIDENT 2008!
demos.....may I suggest an evening Adult Education class to enhance your english composition skills?
(rolling my eyes)
Regardless of your theory on public safety, 65% of the American People do not want illegal aliens to get driver's licenses. Yet Barrack Obama STILL insists they should. Why should we vote for someone who ignores whath the majority of Americans want?

Oh Merle LOL:

if your girl had only said that when she was asked by Tim Russert, maybe the race wouldn't be as close as it is now....

But I have to give you credit....
at least you gave one answer.....
not five like your girl did.....
I havta admit that is becoming Hillarious watching her FREEFALLING from the inevitable nominee from just a few weeks back.First, she accuses others of throwing mud, then only a couple days later, jumps in the Mud Puddle.After touting poll after poll NONSTOP for last few months, one comes out showing Barack ahead of her in IOWA, she then says polls don't concern her.I'd be DISGUSTED also if MY candidate was throwing away ANY chance they had left, the way she's doing.J. Merle(from NY)lotsa people on here i'm sure used to Respect ( I did)your post on here until the primary season started up, then YOU turned into this Vile poster with your name calling(among other things)& misrepresentation of FACTS concerning candidates who Challenge Queen Hillary.Even Van has disappeared somewhat from the endless post of only a month ago.Keep up the COMEDY ( Hillary Fans), it is Truly Hillarious watching YOU.
Hey "Marbw"
simply wanting to know a candidates platform and positions, is a "stupid question"?
By the way.....do any of those websites you posted provide any information at all, as to why a Presidential Candidate like Obama would enter into a joint land deal, with someone who is under FEDERAL indictement for political racketeering?
I'm just curious why it's okay to make spurious accusations against Senator Clinton.
But, we NEVER hear anything about Obama's FEDERALLY INDICTED buddy Antoin Rezko.
Why is that?
J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY (Sent Wednesday, November 28, 2007 11:29 AM)

Nobody said raising taxes is a solution, but raising the cap IS a logical option that could be PART of a larger combination of things that could be a solution.

Actually there is such a thing as a residual support force. The DMZ in Korea is one example. They don't do a lot of fighting there.

I noticed that Hillary's healthcare plan doesn't include how she plans on enforcing that mandate that she is so proud of. Can you explain how she will force people who can't afford insurance to buy it?

About 65% of people didn't want that baby bond that Hillary thought was a good idea either. But she still thought it was a good idea didn't she?

I'm not sensitive at all about the Antoin Rezko thing. And last I checked, in America INDICTED is not the same thing as CONVICTED. And I never said we don't deserve an explanation. I'm just not qualified to be the one to give it.

If you are offended because of a bunch of spin about a picture of Obama without his hand over his heart, then you are just a little sensitive. I appreciate your service and the service of all veterans. But wearing that pin doesn't make you patriotic. And not wearing it doesn't make you unpatriotic. Simplifying patriotism into a case of whether or not we wear a pin on our lapel is senseless.

Please point out to me where I require you to be in lockstep with me. I am simply pointing out to you that Obama has answered your questions clearly. Just because you don't like his answers doesn't mean he hasn't answered them. You are free to choose any candidate you want. You accuse Obama of spouting neo-con rhetoric. Take a look at yourself - you say Obama is unpatriotic because he doesn't wear a flag pin. That sounds a lot like Bush rhetoric to me.

I agree that Obama isn't going anywhere. He is staying right where he is: in the thick of the race for the President of the United States. If you don't like him, don't vote for him. It's that simple.
Disgusted( or should I say disgusting) click here and see the extended forum videos:

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post_group/ObamaHQ/Cx7J
I'll go out and sing for Hillary.......

People
people who vote for Hillary...
Are the Stupidist peopleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
in the worlddddddddddddddddddd
George W. Bush, arguably the worst President in the history of the Republic, whose entire tenure is marked by failure...and 8-10 men who want to replicate his Presidency including the debacle in Iraq.  Hopefully one You Tuber will ask exactly why anyone would vote for an individual who intends to continue to march in lock step with a President whose disapproval rating is 76%?
Out of curiosity, why is asking about Obama's lack of lapel pin or not putting his hand over his heart during the national anthem any different than all of the comments about Hillary's laugh?

Oops, I forgot.  It's Obama - that's how it is different.  We can question every minute detail of Hillary's existence, but how DARE anyone ask questions about Obama.

Carrie, Eastern Iowa (Sent Wednesday, November 28, 2007 11:46 AM)

Carrie,

The difference is that people are questioning Obama's patriotism (as evidenced by J.Merle) because of his not wearing a lapel pin. People just pointed out Hillary's laugh because they have nothing better to do.

If they start pointing out Obama's big ears, then that is something that is comparable to pointing out Clinton's laugh. Same goes with Clinton being a woman, or Obama being an African-American. None of that really matters.
"In the race for the Democratic Presidential Nomination. Hillary Clinton attracts 40% of Likely Democratic Primary Voters nationwide while Barack Obama earns the vote from 18%. John Edwards is the choice for 13%. Bill Richardson and Joe Biden are each supported by 4%, and no other Democratic candidate tops 3% (see recent daily numbers).

New data for the Democratic race in Iowa will be released tomorrow. The most recent Rasmussen Reports poling in Iowa shows Clinton, Obama, and Edwards are in a very tight race. Rasmussen Reports is also polling both the Republican and Democratic primaries in New Hampshire at this time. New data will be released this week."

Clinton-40
Obama-  18

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_2008__1/2008_presidential_election/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

Rasmussen has Obama polling at his LOWEST point (17-18%) since before Thanksgiving. Why is this? Why hasn't he EVER gotten to 30% in the Rasmussen? Why is he just 5 points in front of Edwards? Now that polls count, despite the medicated claims of the EDP (he's fabricated a,"new", relative who's a mathematician now, and he's previously touted his own expertise in GAME THEORY; To go along with his Ph.D.) to the contrary, EVERY campaign employs a pollster, spends a good portion of their campaign budget on polls and pollsters. Indeed, it is their own internal polling that is driving the strategy of the leading campaigns; (http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/expenditures.asp?cycle=2008)
In fact, the past 3 weeks of the campaign have been DICTATED by the polls, with the all candidates, adjusting their rhetoric to the latest data.
Even if the only thing you can claim insider status to is a mental facility, you can get a lot of information from polls, the internals of those polls, and the trends that they illuminate, especially now that they count...


Van  
Can you honestly say the Clintons have values and character?

M J Buckley, Newport, KY (Sent Wednesday, November 28, 2007 11:43 AM)

about as much as the Sopranos......
kind of hard to figure who is Tony Soprano in that family though......
Exactly Carrie!
It's okay to make up spurious, unsubstantiated allegations based upon NEO-CON rhetoric about Mrs. Clinton.
But when a FEDERALLY INDICTED political racketeer enters into a land deal with a Presidential Candidate like Barrack Obama, we have absolutely no right to ask questions about it.
How dare we do that, Carrie.
Didn't you know?
We're supposed to sit back and let them attack Hillary with baseless rhetoric.
But we aren't supposed to hit "Lil' Barracky" back.
MOMMY, I HIT HILLARY AND SHE HIT ME BACK! Waaaaaah!how does it feel to be attacked BACK?
If Obama and his supporters don't want to be hit back, then they shouldn't have engaged in slash and attack politics to begin with...
Otherwise you're going to get it right back in return.

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY (Sent Wednesday, November 28, 2007 11:48 AM)
=====

Aside from the fact that Clinton first insulted Barack by calling him naive and inexperienced MONTHS ago when Obama was still trying to play nice, I think it's important to point out something...

Hillary isn't attacking Obama because he's a man or because he's black.  Hillary is attacking Obama because she's losing.
But, we NEVER hear anything about Obama's FEDERALLY INDICTED buddy Antoin Rezko.
Why is that?

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY (Sent Wednesday, November 28, 2007 12:00 PM)

The same reason we never hear about Hillary's FEDERALLY convicted felon Sandy Berger.......

or her FEDERALLY indicted friend Norman Hsu........
Why do all these Hillary supporters spell and sound like they haven't passed 3rd grade?

I'd tell them they could find the answers to their questions regarding Barack Obama on his website, if i thought they had the mental fortitude to get through all the big words.
I keep reading about how I'm not here...I keep reading that Hillary is slipping...I keep reading the flood of posts from the majority here, who have foolishly come to believe that they are riding the crest of a wave, when they are actually standing on the beach, a la, "Deep Impact", about to be swept away in mere weeks now...I keep reading the personal insults and RNC website slanders, old and new, from the supporters of the candidate who will bring us all together...I keep reading and reading the overheated rhetoric and wondering what the board will look like in 36 days, in 45 days, in two months...
I'll be here...reading those who remain


Van
J Merle, in regards to rezko, it was addressed on NBC tv 'Meet the Press' with Tim Russert. Barack Obama was on the NBC show(day after JJ dinner). Do 'search' on the MTP site. If you are a Clinton supporter along with Disgusted et al, you are doing her a great disservice.

If you are her supporter, enhance her positive aspects instead of the nonsense that I keep reading. Pls do not respond with dribble. I will only address specific requests for info.
Nice try..grade E for effort
Oh thank you CitizenJ....thank you for giving us permission to vote for whoever we please.
Thank you so much!
YOU said that we who support Hillary are letting the MSM (as you termed it) do our thinking for us.
That's basically saying that we have no other choice than to get in lock step with you.
And by the way, I WON'T vote for Obama. Not during the primaries, and not during the General Election should he somehow (god forbid) end up getting the nomination.
He's more than 10 points behind nationally. He WAS in the lead in Iowa two weeks ago.....now Hillary is tied with him there. He isn't in the "thick" of anything. Obama is a fringe extremeist and he isn't going anywhere, sorry.

HILLARY FOR PRESIDENT 2008!
**** Here it is again, Chelse..hillaryclinton.com
Here are some site that address the pin and hand over heart meme that some have been dweeling on(ad nauseum):

Click on these sites(play video on the 3rd one):

http://origin.barackobama.com/factcheck/category/

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2007/11/obama_nabbed_by_the_patriotic.html

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Obama_doesnt_put_hand_over_heart_1022.html
So we've got Jane who's spamming her support of Clinton with no argumentation re: future of the country, ethics, actual plans.

Disgusted who hates Obama because he's "holier-than-thou"

Johnny V. who's been answered about 30 times in 10 different thread about hopefund - it's totally legal and far less unseemly than Hillary's Vilsack debt-paying (and that's just for starters).

Merle who insists that Obama hasn't answered questions about things like his social security plan when he drew that exact contrast at the last debate.

Keep spinning guys.  Any neutral observer will see which side has the more logical, rational argumentation. The old spin rules are going out the door.

And posting the same point in the thread 5 times doesn't make you a winner, it makes you a troll.
Carrie,

The difference is that people are questioning Obama's patriotism (as evidenced by J.Merle) because of his not wearing a lapel pin. People just pointed out Hillary's laugh because they have nothing better to do.

If they start pointing out Obama's big ears, then that is something that is comparable to pointing out Clinton's laugh. Same goes with Clinton being a woman, or Obama being an African-American. None of that really matters.
CitizenJ (Sent Wednesday, November 28, 2007 12:08 PM)


Not so, J.  It wasn't just a matter of saying "gee, Hill's got some strange laughter"...people were using the way she laughs to argue that she is fake, that she is losing control, etc.  So the question remains - why is it okay to make Hillary's insignificant behavior a topic of conversation but not Obama's "insignificant" behavior?

And by the way, not everyone considers his behavior insignificant.  I know several people who will not vote for him because he won't wear a flag pin, because they do think it represents a lack of patriotism on his part.  Whether these folks are unenlightened or not, they exist and they will have to be answered at some point.  Even the unenlightened get to vote.
Oh thank you CitizenJ....thank you for giving us permission to vote for whoever we please.
Thank you so much!
YOU said that we who support Hillary are letting the MSM (as you termed it) do our thinking for us.
That's basically saying that we have no other choice than to get in lock step with you.
And by the way, I WON'T vote for Obama. Not during the primaries, and not during the General Election should he somehow (god forbid) end up getting the nomination.
He's more than 10 points behind nationally. He WAS in the lead in Iowa two weeks ago.....now Hillary is tied with him there. He isn't in the "thick" of anything. Obama is a fringe extremeist and he isn't going anywhere, sorry.

HILLARY FOR PRESIDENT 2008!

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY (Sent Wednesday, November 28, 2007 12:25 PM)

Wow, you are quite testy. It seems as though you have problems that go deeper than just myself of Barack Obama. If I need some quick and easy entertainment in the future, I'll know where to find you.

Good luck working out your inner anguish.
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha jerry........and ah, what kind of character does "Gigolo Rudy 'G'" have?
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
Rudy makes Tony Soprano look like Pope John-Paul II.

For the poll watchers here:
Strategic Vision Iowa poll 11-14-07.....Clinton 29% and Obama 27%. Latest poll released this week 11/26.....Clinton 29% and Obama 29%.

ABC/WaPo Iowa poll....Obama 30% and Clinton 26%


I was watching Joe Scarb's show(MSNBC) this morning when Zogby was on the phone(responding to Mark Penn-HRC's guy that dismissed Zogby's latest poll).
The gist of what Zogby said was:
He has been using online polling for a years now(says phone calls are not as reliable as before). He polls by using the email list that he has on file. He got 17 out of 18 results correct in the 2006 election. Zogby's #1 request for his polls results comes from the Clintons over the years. The Gallup poll showing her ahead of GOP(that was widely reported this week) is actually about 2 weeks old.
Her campaign is in panic mode.  

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews2.dbm?ID=1393
J. Merle asks "Regardless of your theory on public safety, 65% of the American People do not want illegal aliens to get driver's licenses. Yet Barrack Obama STILL insists they should. Why should we vote for someone who ignores whath the majority of Americans want?"


The answer is simple J Merle.  A President should do what he/she feels is right, regardless of polls.  That's one of Hillary's biggest problems, her positions are too poll driven.  Remember the $5,000 baby bonds to go towards a new home or college tuition?  Hillary dropped it like a hot potato(I would have said a chinese dishwasher donation, but she doesn't drop those).  

It's said that most politcians stick their fingers in the wind to gauge what direction the wind is blowing, they then go in that direction.  Great leaders change the direction of the wind.

Some politcians follow polls and end up doing a great good job i.e. Bill Clinton

However, the great ones take politicals risks for the sake of what is right.....and usually end up in the great category....JFK, FRR, Lincoln, Truman.
I'm very proud of my support for Hillary Clinton. I'm a native New Yorker who had doubts about her commiment to NY but she proved better. My fears evaporated and she has been an outstanding Senitor. Now i know she will make not a good president but a great president.
{{ about as much as the Sopranos......
kind of hard to figure who is Tony Soprano in that family though...... }}

That's easy, Hillary. Bill doesn't have the stomach for that kind of work. And Hillary has all the experience in that area.
O Bomba is nice....Hillary is GREATTTTTTTTTTTT.
Van -- you obviously stole that post from someone who criticized you several days ago, saying "I bet Van disappears in [X] days"

That aside, you said "I keep reading the personal insults and RNC website slanders, old and new, from the supporters of the candidate who will bring us all together..."


Funny, how can a woman who will bring us together, be so hated and despised?  How can someone with the highest negative numbers (constantly around 45%) in recorded history of any person running for President, bring us together?  How can a woman whom 84% of Republicans say they will NEVER vote for or consider bring Republicans together with democrats?  Her whole campaign is based on trashing Republicans.  "Turn up the heat!" she screams as she blames Republicans for everything wrong, and then blames Bill for every mistake she's ever made.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ OBAMAFUND $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Not so, J.  It wasn't just a matter of saying "gee, Hill's got some strange laughter"...people were using the way she laughs to argue that she is fake, that she is losing control, etc.  So the question remains - why is it okay to make Hillary's insignificant behavior a topic of conversation but not Obama's "insignificant" behavior?

And by the way, not everyone considers his behavior insignificant.  I know several people who will not vote for him because he won't wear a flag pin, because they do think it represents a lack of patriotism on his part.  Whether these folks are unenlightened or not, they exist and they will have to be answered at some point.  Even the unenlightened get to vote.

Carrie, Eastern Iowa (Sent Wednesday, November 28, 2007 12:35 PM)

Carrie,

That is true, it was used as hit on her personality. But I still don't think it is on the same level of the questioning of one's patriotism. That said, I really can't answer your question because I think all of that stuff is a waste of time. I don't know how people differentiate between the insignificance. My best guess is that is has a lot to do with their pre-held bias.

Also, I've been conversing with J.Merle this morning, and he is someone who is offended by Obama's not wearing the pin. Of course they are out there. I'm sure a significant portion of society picks a candidate based on one issue and one issue only (although, some may pick a candidate and still not actually go vote). It makes me a little sad that people would ignore reality and listen to what "experts" have to say about someone's patriotism or their laugh. But nevertheless, they are out there, as you said. My only hope is that they will stay home on election day, and that those who will go vote will not be strong enough in number to alter the results of the election.
Yes, dad I saw it..hillaryclinton.com
I love Hillary so much, all I do is write about her all day....
I make up songs about her too....
I have a Hillary doll I made I sleep with each night...
I obsess over Hillary....
I am not obssessed with bill and hillary.
I am not obssessed with bill and hillary.
I am not obssessed with bill and hillary I am not obssessed with bill and hill I am not obssessed with bill I am not obssessed
"Van -- you obviously stole that post from someone who criticized you several days ago, saying "I bet Van disappears in [X] days"

You aren't worth responding to, but accusing me of stealing merits a response to the charge.

I have called Obama, "the man who will bring us all together", many times over the past four months, here and on CNN's ticker, as a perusal of the pages here would attest.

Being wrong about almost everything all the time (How can someone with the highest negative numbers (constantly around 45%) in RECORDED HISTORY of any person running for President...) lol Let's see the source(s) of this claim. Hard to substantiate when NEITHER party's candidate has been chosen yet, and THAT would be when you could look at the numbers and make that claim.

Hyperbole doesn't trump scholarship and raging hatred blinds. Those are two of the attributes that render your posts intellectually impotent and unworthy of consideration of reply. Accusations of theft I will refute, regardless of the unreliability of the source.


Van


Well I guess that since ALL the democratic candidates DON"t wear the lapel Flag pin all the time Carrie & J Merle, I guess then merle, Your girl hillary has Spit(Your words, not mine)on their Memory(11:29 am post)as well, doncha think.Your service is to be Commended,But You have No right to question anyone's PATRIOTISM! The both of ya are sounding more like Neo-Cons than Neo-Cons are.I'm going out on a limb here to say that jane(you go girl hillary)is HP(boston). I know she's Hillary08!!!!!!. What a Complete Joke hillary supporters are becoming. The steadfast democrat(who won't vote for Barack)because he's gonna beat Hillary. Go ahead & vote for rapping rudy as you callem. That'll show them barack supporters.America is showing we are sick & tired of this Bush-Clinton Dictatorship, get used to it!!!! BTW, keep up the COMEDY ruetine(sp), it truly is HILLARIOUS
"Yet he just sat there and fiddled with Monica and forgot all about Saddam and worse; Al Queda."  jerry, when will you learn that every time you bring this up I'll point out it was the Republicans that claimed Monica was more important than al Qaeda?  It was the Republicans that claimed taking down the most dangerous terrorist organization in the world was a distraction from the all-important Whitewater investigation.  It was the Republicans that turned their backs on al Qaeda because they found it more important to pursue the destruction of anyone with ties to Bill Clinton.  
Marbw says...
"...J Merle, in regards to rezko, it was addressed on NBC tv 'Meet the Press' with Tim Russert. Barack Obama was on the NBC show(day after JJ dinner). Do 'search' on the MTP site. If you are a Clinton supporter along with Disgusted et al, you are doing her a great disservice. ....."

Marbw.....The media persistantly bombarded Hillary's campaign with coverage about Norman Hsu, even though background checks are not required on people who donate money or who arrange for donations to political campaigns.
The media did not make it a point to tell anyone that Hsu donated money to Obama, and even introduced Obama to people who work on his national campaign as we speak.
We constantly see personal attacks against The Clintons, which are usually nothing more than spurious allegations based on "word of mouth" from angry NEO-CONS who couldn't "get" Bill Clinton when he was in office.
The media never made a big deal about Obama's relationship with Antoin Rezko, though.
The story wasn't repeated adnauseum. In fact, if you didn't look it up, you wouldn't know anything about it.
That Obama commented about this once, isn't enough. He needs to explain how someone running for President could have such a close, personal relationship with someone who's under indictement for political racketeering.
What makes Obama so special that he doesn't get asked the tough questions about HIS personal life...and who is HE (or his supporters) to personally attack and defame Hillary based on specious political rhetoric?
You propose absolutely nothing to me, or to Hillary, Marbw.
The only dis-service that's being done is by you Marbw. You and people like you are destroying the chances that the Democratic Party has to be in charge of both the Legislative and The Executive Branches of Government after next year's election.
But then again, if 'Lil' Barracky can't have it....nobody can, right Marbw?





Being wrong about almost everything all the time (How can someone with the highest negative numbers (constantly around 45%) in RECORDED HISTORY of any person running for President...) lol Let's see the source(s) of this claim. Hard to substantiate when NEITHER party's candidate has been chosen yet, and THAT would be when you could look at the numbers and make that claim.

Hyperbole doesn't trump scholarship and raging hatred blinds. Those are two of the attributes that render your posts intellectually impotent and unworthy of consideration of reply. Accusations of theft I will refute, regardless of the unreliability of the source.


Van

vanreuter, NY NY (Sent Wednesday, November 28, 2007 1:17 PM)


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,269627,00.html - Clinton negatives - 46%, April 2007
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/10/29/clinton-voted-spookiest-halloween-costume/ - Clinton spookiest, 4 out of 10, October, 2007
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2007-11-07-clinton-poll_N.htm - Clinton lags in quest for male voters, 84% of Republicans say they will never vote for her, November, 2007

".....Wow, you are quite testy. It seems as though you have problems that go deeper than just myself of Barack Obama. If I need some quick and easy entertainment in the future, I'll know where to find you.
Good luck working out your inner anguish.
CitizenJ (Sent Wednesday, November 28, 2007 12:35 PM)....."

Another Obama supporter heard from....need I say more?



SEND A COMMENT

PLEASE READ: All comments must be approved before appearing in the thread; time and space constraints prevent all comments from appearing. We will only approve comments that are directly related to the blog, use appropriate language and are not attacking the comments of others.

Message (please, no HTML tags. Web addresses will be hyperlinked):

TRACKBACKS

Trackbacks are links to weblogs that reference this post. Like comments, trackbacks do not appear until approved by us. The trackback URL for this post is: http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/trackback.aspx?PostID=484055

First Read e-mail alerts


Sign up for First Read alerts
The first place for key political news and analysis

Syndicate This Site

Add First Read to your news reader:
live.com xml
myyahoo msn
bloglines newsgator
google