Hahahaha!!! I like Obama sarcasm regarding Bill and Hillary Clinton. They both think they can confuse us as a voter.

I'm not sure anyone has a Health Care plan that I actually support. They all seem to be Universal Insurance, which I believe just rewards the Insurance companies (the same companies that refused to pay after Katrina). I wish someone would start talking about real Universal Health care and stop nibbling around the edges. In other words, I don't think that there is all that much difference in the candidates on Health Care, so let's move on and stop flogging this dead horse.

Obama is on point again. He running it like a marathon and picking up the pace towards the end.

obama, he was against mandates before he was for mandates, before he was told he used to be against mandates, so now he's gonna talk about his lost illinios student council records , 100K off his house, and his love of Mining executives over dead working miners.

he's "special"

Obama is a man with a plan... a good plan.  It'll be interesting to see how Hillary deals with her "mandate" to force people to get health care that don't want it.  And good response to Bill's big fat lie, didn't criticize him at all, just said that's not what most people seem to think Bill said before...

And Obama's approach to education is great.  Education is THE BACKBONE of America.  Education -drives- the economy.  Our workforce must be educated better if we want to remain a world power.  It's a very serious issue too many people take lightly.

go watch the youtube video of bill on letterman saying that he agreed with the invasion and that the war would be over in 6weeks.  Bill is having his Macca moment.  

Hillary isn't providing details? That's never happened before.

Al, from Kansas.  You make a good point that better health care has become synonymous with insurance.  There is more to increasing the health care of this country than how it is paid for.  People also deserve better value, quality and communication from their providers.  Here are again, the recommendations from the Mayo--non-partisan recommendations that draws from both conservatives and liberals.  Check it out.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthpolicycenter/recommendations.html

I would favor a more free-market approach to healthcare, which would reduce costs and improve quality, as somebody who has looked at the issue.  We need to have those vunerable covered like children and help the needy afford it.  I kind of like McCain's plan the best and Biden's is okay, so take a look at those too.

Al, what would you like to see in healthcare, I'd be interested.

Go Obama

Very good point Obama....If Bill was against the war from the start did he tell Hillary?  If so did she just ignore his advice?  There goes the arguement that people feel he will be a valuable advisor.  If he didn't tell her that...what did he tell her , is he lying now?  Both of these people lie with an ease that is astounding !!

Hillary if people can't afford to buy insurance and you mandate it How Are You going to enforce it.  Fines, jail?  If they can't afford the insurance they definitely won't be able to pay the fine.  So how do you insure that they get the coverage.  Like the Iraq vote this whole mandate issue is political posturing and in no way realistic for the entire US population unless it is free.

Tuck, why are you so vehemently opposed to Obama that you almost always post unrelated information or blatent lies about him all the time?  Mandating coverage for everybody is far different from mandating coverage for all children--the latter is Obama's clear position.  There are certain issues that everybody believes, and one of those is that we must take care of our children--I know the very conservative are suspect on this.  You sir, are an idiot who frequently adds nothing to the conversation.  I had no idea Margaritaville was in Kansas.

obama, he was against mandates before he was for mandates, before he was told he used to be against mandates, so now he's gonna talk about his lost illinios student council records , 100K off his house, and his love of Mining executives over dead working miners.

he's "special"
Tuck, Realityville, KS (Sent Wednesday, November 28, 2007 3:48 PM)

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The late stage of syphilis is dementia.  Tuck, go get yourself checked and properly treated.  You sound demented.

Here is the new poll from South Carolina. The poll was taking from Nov 14- 27. Clinton has dropped by 7 points since August, Obama and Edward went up by 1 and 2 points accordingly.

Clinton - 19
Obama - 17
Edward - 12

Margin of error is 4.62





http://www.realclearpolitics.com/docs/newNovember_Palmetto_Poll-3.html

gotta love how you all avoid the obama facts, and get all defensive....
even real demo and the msn poster know he's an empty suit.

He's like bush.. no record to run on, just a cult of personality.

I see your back from Disneyland, Tuck.LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Very good point Obama....If Bill was against the war from the start did he tell Hillary?  If so did she just ignore his advice?  There goes the arguement that people feel he will be a valuable advisor.  If he didn't tell her that...what did he tell her , is he lying now?  Both of these people lie with an ease that is astounding !!
Lyn, MD (Sent Wednesday, November 28, 2007 3:58 PM)


I wonder, do you do everything exactly the way your significant other does or would?  I think it is enormously beneficial to have a former president in the White House; however, I fully expect the current president to be able to make up his or her own mind, independent from his or her spouse.  It's not mutually exclusive.  You can benefit from the knowledge that your spouse has without doing everything the precise way your spouse would do it.

Lyn:  

Perhaps we need to read the article more closely:  "I would fine parents if form some reason they refused. I am happy to be very clear on how we would enforce the mandate,” Obama said.

In your rant against Hillary, you say that if you can't afford the insurance you won't be able to afford the fine.  Did I miss where you came down on Obama for stating that is what he would do to enforce his mandate that children be insured?

sonya...Do you mean Bill is having a "Monica Lewinsky " moment? Before it was…"I did not have...with that woman."  Now, it is "I did not support the war in Iraq from the start".

Go BO!

This Tuck guy must be out of his mind. Obama worked as community organizer for 3 years. Was a state senator for 7 years before coming to washington DC. Man do you know how it is for a highly educated person to be a community organizer for a place like south side Chicago? Just asked Hillary or any of the current crop of Dem. leaders whether they will attempt anything remotely resembling that job. Please, give the devil his due. I am just a car sales guy, but I will not in anyway attempt doing what Obama did. That was selfless and heroic

Tuck, Realityville, KS

You know you really should learn how to respect authority.  President Bush IS the President he deserves respect.  I don't get people who try to bash Senator Obama by comparing him to President Bush.  I LIKE President Bush, I dislike his policy's, Senator Obama is like President Bush, he is going to following him right into the Oval Office.

I think the term "universal health care" needs to be removed from the discussion - if I have to pay for it myself - that is way different than what most people consider "universal care". Still waiting to hear what any of these plans actually cover . . .

P.S. The "buy insurance from the government or else" model is not gonna work . . . and that bogus "15 million" number that Hillary is throwing around isn't either - who are these 15 million people? How is this number arrived at?

Typical answer by Obama and his supporters.  He is asked about his health plan not being universal and instead of explaining his plan or trying to ensure Americans that he will cover all of them he attacks Senator Clinton and her supporters attack her too even off topic.  We are still waiting for Obama's answer on what he will do with the 15 million people not covered.

Obama said that he would “fine parents” in order to enforce the mandate in his health insurance plan that all children be covered.

“I would sign them up in school in the same way they would get inoculated. I would fine parents if for some reason they refused. I am happy to be very clear on how we would enforce the mandate,” Obama said.
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Gezz Obama you sound desperate.  NO FINES AND MANDATES!!  Health care is a right of every child, get your policy in perspective, go back to the drawing board.
I am a voter and I approve this message.

The late stage of syphilis is dementia.  Tuck, go get yourself checked and properly treated.  You sound demented.

========

Don't bother. Best to let nature takes its course. Be sure to have a Green burial.

In your rant against Hillary, you say that if you can't afford the insurance you won't be able to afford the fine.  Did I miss where you came down on Obama for stating that is what he would do to enforce his mandate that children be insured?
Carrie, Eastern Iowa
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Stop reciting talking point. It is easy to mandate health Insurance for kids but not adult. Parents can enroll their kids with the insurance while registering them at school. That is simple and easy but to mandate it for adults without affordability is silly and nightmare. I don’t think want government handling my healthcare let alone Hillary. Hillary’s plan will cause the greatest bureaucracy ever and it will be worse than FEMA.

At least Obama has shown us what he will do with mandate for kids; however, what will Hillary do with Mandate for Adults? That is the $1 million dollars question Hillary cannot answer. I know she cannot answer this question succintinly and she is gong to loose this argument the way she lost Health Care in the '90s.

Obama passed universal health care for children in Illinois, and is the only Democrat running with such an accomplishment on his record.

Clinton not only failed to pass universal health care nationally, but the bills never even made it to the floor in a DEMOCRATIC Congress.

Now her plan mandates that we all, as adults, get insurance, which will NEVER be enforceable.  If you doubt that, how many people in your state don't have car insurance, even though it's mandated?  How many people in Massachussetts, where Mitt Romney mandated universal heath care for adults, still to this day have no health insurance?  The answer to both questions is plenty; that's why Clinton's line of attack here is so insulting to the intelligence, and why the retort from Obama is so well deserved.  I say this as a twenty-eight year old who only recently finally got health insurance; I couldn't have gotten it two or three or five years ago, even if it was mandated by law, because it was TOO expensive.  Not all of us are top six percent of the population income earners, ahem, I mean, "the middle class".  

So, you guys are all okay with the government "fining" parents for not signing up for insurance?

It's true, you want a nanny state.

Until health care is no longer a monopoly, and health insurance is truly portable,(and tort lawyers show some restraints) health costs will continue to rise. I don't support a "mandate"; I don't support fining parents. Probably 1/4 of the people who are uninsured in this country are self insuring; they're young, single, healthy, and don't have a helluva lot of money, so they figure, "why buy insurance right now?", and they're right, they probably don't need it.

Make health insurance competitive, disassociate it from imployers and give individuals tax breaks (on a sliding scale) for purchasing it.

Carrie, you are right.  The Clinton marriage thrives on three things: love, political power and distance.  And yes, that does matter to the race.

Carrie, I think that Obama like the other Democrats is seeking to provide subsides and tax cuts to make healthcare affordable to the poor.  There's also S-Chip and that other program for poor children (the name escapes me).  I'm sure those options would still be in play.  Also, personally, if you can't afford to responsibly care for a child, then people shouldn't have children.

--Nicholas

I'm for government funded UNIVERSAL Health care...ala Canada, Britain, and every other civilized country in the world. I think that it would help to keep jobs here, because one of the reasons that business send jobs overseas is to avoid the rising health care insurance costs. I think it would promote better health, because people would go to the doctor when the symptoms were mild, not when it gets really bad. I think that the right to health care should not be determined by your net worth. It would promote better prenatal care, better child care, better senior care. In short, I think it is time that we start thinking about whats right for our citizens, not what's best for the Insurance and Drug industries.

gotta love how you all avoid the obama facts, and get all defensive....
even real demo and the msn poster know he's an empty suit. Tuck"  It's one thing to not like a candidate, but don't diminish his achievements. If being the first black editor of the Harvard Law Review, a community organizer, a law professor, an Illinois State Senator and a U.S. Senator equate to an "empty suit"  - I'll take that over ANY of the so-called qualifications on the Republican side.  

I guess I am looking for clarification--Do both Sentor Clinton and Senator Obama advocate fining parents who don't sign their children up for health care? And I have to ask (as did someone else in a post)how would parents who apparently can't afford the cost of health care, afford to pay such a fine?  

If the health care costs are to paid by government subsidies, then parents shouldn't have any reason not to sign up their children, so fines wouldn't be needed.   I am confused.

Tuck:  Hillary supported Bush's craziness in the Middle East on three separate ocassions.  That speaks of neither experience nor judgment (especially when the last vote was just 2 months ago). She is the candidate who acts as if she were a neophyte.  She is too closely aligned with corporate interests and I find this position inconsistant with the principles of the Democratic Party.  On top of all of this, (fairly or not) she is truly the most polarizing of all the Democrats.  Even if she were to be elected (which is questionable), her ability to govern would be severely hampered.  

Other than the fact that Obama ruined Hillary's chances for a coronation, your irrational hatred of Obama is incomprehensible to me.  What could be driving this intense dislike?  Surely it isn't this alleged relationship with Rezko; that's so irrevelevent, that land deal is public record and there were no illegalities.  Obama said that in retrospect he shouldn't have dealt with the man.

It couldn't involve these discussions about how to best cover Americans with health insurance; all the candidates on the Democratic side recognize the need and at this point, it's all about process.  

There's got to be something about him that gets your goat.  Maybe you could clarify this and we all could have an intelligent discussion.  I know J Merle Stanley thinks that he's a neo-con (and that makes absolutely no sense).  JMS also thinks that Obama hates the flag.  Sometimes I wonder who the neo-con really is.  Speak up.  I'm interested.
Obama '08

Iam totally confused--someone help me--my brain is locking up---Who is running for election? Is it Bill Or Hillary? The issue of having opposed the war should have come from Hillary not Bill, unless it is official that the Brain on Hillary's shoulders is Bill!
Etesot

Dot--Don't forget about the plans already in place to help the children of poor families like S-Chip for children above poverty and the other program for children below poverty, Medicaid I think.  Fines shouldn't be needed, you are correct, but there are a lot of bad parents out there, and they need to be punished somehow.  I don't know the answer how parents should be punished best.

I difference between Clinton and Obama is with adults.  Do we instigate a Medicaid or S-Chip for adults too?  It's possibly fair to help people out for awhile, but how do we ween those relying entirely on the government off of free healthcare insurance, because that hardly feels Universal.  Can anybody say welfare?  Personally, I don't want to pay for somebody else's insurance and I don't want people to pay for mine.

I hope this helps answer your question.  Keep them up, and keep up your great objectivity!

Thanks for responding Al!  I always appreciate differing opinions.

--Nicholas

Wohoooo soon we will have the Clinton's in the WH!!!
The president Clinton's will bring us back to a BETTER America!!
08 can't wait , Madame President and Bill.

All I have to say is that I always read First Read and the blog comments, and rarely I will actually post a comment (and when I do it is in regards to Barack Obama- our next President), but EVERY TIME I read First Read and their is a post about Obama, you get Tuck from "Realityville, KS"- who I think posts on this just to get on Democrats' nerves in general, you have Bee who defends Obama and never rudely which I commend (and unlike myself from time to time), you get Carrie from Eastern Iowa the Hillary supporter, you get csh from IL the Obama hater (where from in Illinois?), and HP from Boston- the other Hillary supporter.  Can I just ask you guys...what do you do for a living because I would love to be able to blog all day long.  Are you paid to blog?  Seriously, how do I get in on that.

Other than that, I do have to say that the Hillary supporters are starting to sound desperate...which of course I love.  Your arguments resemble those from the Republicans when Kerry was going against Bush.  I loved Bill Clinton, too.  I think he was what America needed at the time, especially after Reagan.  I don't feel the same way about Hillary Clinton, although I do admire her for her intellect (Bill even said in his book she is smarter than he is).  I started not caring too much for the Clintons when they were always hanging out with the Bushes, and not just the charity work that Clinton did with Bush Sr., but really hanging out with them.  Too chummy with the man that was destroying our country.  I really tuned in to Barack Obama at the Democratic National Convention when he gave the introductory speech for Kerry.  His words reflected everything I had been feeling about our battered and bruised country.  I feel that he understands people, and that is the most important quality a President can have.  You have to understand people, what motivates them, what makes them happy, their needs, their wants, what makes them angry, etc.... to make good sound policy and decisions.  He has what it takes to allow this country to stop living in the shadow of 911 and this horrible, stupid war and start healing and taking care of HOME.

With that said...here is one for all Democrats to love and all Republicans to hate.....

If Bush and Guiliani are so damn strong on terrorists and war, why were we attacked under their watch and why can't we win a war even after all these years?  I would think someone who has what it takes could PREVENT a terrorist attack and could KICK ASS at war, right?  I WANT AN EXPLANATION TO THAT!!!  And don't give me this, "Well we haven't been attacked again" crap.  I lived in this country all my life and that is the second time we have been attacked in my lifetime, so I guess Bill Clinton was just as strong on terrorist as Bush because we weren't attacked again during his presidency either. Hmmm.

Why do people get so excited about a proposal for universal health care? Poliicians can propose anything they want during an election. What is actually going to get implemented is likely to be very different.

I've read Obama's plan as well as Kucinich's. The Kucinich plan is a disaster waiting to happen and would create massive unemployment by doing away with an entire industry.

Obama's approach is much better, choosing to focus more on what is contributing to the rising costs of health care. The issue of Universal coverage is a red herring. I don't know why Obama is on the defensive over his plan. It's a good one and has a better opportunity of being adopted than any other plan.

Siam,
  You said, "...You know how hard it is for a highly educatred person to be a community organizer for a place like the south side of Chicago..."

  So what are you saying, Siam? If you are Harvard educated and smart, why would you want to work with all those dumb people who live on the south side?

   Could it be that SAINT Obama had his eye on running for president even way back then, so he "put up with it" so it'd look good on his holier than thou resumae?

   Poor, Barak.  Too smart for those dumb people!  I'm insulted.  Now when you wonder why skin color will not necessarily be voting for like skin color, you have your answer.  We're too dumb for Saint Obama.  

Saint Obama is opposed to recruiting teachers from overseas. What happened to the audacity of hope for all mankind?

How'd his daddy get over here?  Is this a true story or not? Wasn't he recruited by Pres. Kennedy to come over and go to ivy league unviversities here in the good old USA?

After reading all this holier than thou obama-ite drivel, I'm definitely voting for Hillary Clinton.

Great. Critics whine of a ''police state''and Obama whips out the Inoculation Gestapo to cheers and applause. What will it be the next time I wonder?

HP in Boston:
Because of the SCHIP program, children can now qualify for health insurance even if the parent/s have an income.  The cut offs for eligiblity vary by State, but generally, even many middle class kids would qualify.

So to mandate children under the Obama plan makes a lot of sense because it will not cause a hardship to the family.

Since there is no similar program for adults, mandating is much more difficult to accept.

Here is a video & links to his education plan:

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post_group/ObamaHQ/CxY4

Anyone looking for some new Hillary video from an SC stop and an interesting commentary on how race is impacting that primary should try: http://goupstate.us/index.php/lanefiller/2007/11/27/hillary_and_the_black_men_of_god

from today's washington post:

"Clinton and Edwards are essentially attacking Obama for not requiring people who don't want insurance from being forced to get it."


When the foreclosure rate is the highest it's been in years, and americans are drowning in debt, Hillary's big great plan is to force everyone to spend hundreds more dollars every month on mandatory insurance.

Windy City Girl:

I don't get paid to blog, and you might want to rethink your praise of Bee.  She has been plenty rude to me and others who defend (not support) Hillary on several occasions.

Also you may want to rethink your characterization of me as a Hillary supporter.  I'm not caucusing for Hillary.  I just think the double standard that Hillary haters have between her and the other candidates is repulsive, ridiculous and should be shot down whenever possible.  

HP in Boston:
Because of the SCHIP program, children can now qualify for health insurance even if the parent/s have an income.  The cut offs for eligiblity vary by State, but generally, even many middle class kids would qualify.

So to mandate children under the Obama plan makes a lot of sense because it will not cause a hardship to the family.

Since there is no similar program for adults, mandating is much more difficult to accept.
Sharon (Sent Wednesday, November 28, 2007 7:54 PM)

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Well no ship Sharon, as if I need you to explain SCHIPS or any thing else.

Obama is lost, a lost soul way over his head in need of his good old high school days!!
He lacks judjement and experience!

Windy City Girl:

I don't get paid to blog, and you might want to rethink your praise of Bee.  She has been plenty rude to me and others who defend (not support) Hillary on several occasions.

Also you may want to rethink your characterization of me as a Hillary supporter.  I'm not caucusing for Hillary.  I just think the double standard that Hillary haters have between her and the other candidates is repulsive, ridiculous and should be shot down whenever possible.  
Carrie, Eastern Iowa (Sent Thursday, November 29, 2007 11:02 AM)
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DOUBLE DITTO!!!

After reading all this holier than thou obama-ite drivel, I'm definitely voting for Hillary Clinton.
A Concerned Voter (Sent Wednesday, November 28, 2007 7:14 PM
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Me too!

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