ABOUT FIRST READ

First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



Oh-eight (D): Hillary slipping in SC, NH?

Posted: Thursday, November 29, 2007 9:16 AM by Mark Murray
Filed Under:

A new Clemson University South Carolina poll shows Clinton slipping and Obama pulling within a statistical tie. Clinton is at 19%, Obama 17%, and Edwards 12%. But about half say they are still undecided. When the poll was last taken in August, Clinton held a double-digit lead and stood at 26%.

In New Hampshire, Clinton holds double-digit lead in a new poll. Here are the numbers: Clinton 34%, Obama 22%, Edwards 15%, and Richardson 9%. The same poll in June showed Clinton with an 18-point lead.

BIDEN: At his town hall speech on Iraq today, Biden will say, according to excerpts his campaign released to First Read: “Security in Iraq is better, though it remains an incredibly dangerous and violent place. That's great news and it is due in no small measure to the extraordinary skill and bravery of our troops. They will accomplish any mission we give them. Over and over again, they've done their job in Iraq.  The problem is, the President has not done his. Remember, the stated purpose of the surge was to allow Iraqis to come together politically. There is no evidence – none – that that has happened.”

More: “There is only one path to a durable political settlement in Iraq and it's the one I proposed more than a year ago and that 74 other senators recently endorsed: decentralize power; give Iraqis local control over the police, jobs, education, services; keep a limited central government to distribute oil revenues; and bring in the UN to oversee this political settlement.”

Biden tells the Des Moines Register, "I think one of us is going to end up supplanting one of the so-called top-tier candidates, I think, if you take a look, you give us each sort of our day, our time in the barrel to see if we rise up.”

CLINTON: One has to wonder if we're going to see Bill Clinton stumping on his own very much between now and caucus day. For the second campaign swing in a row, something he said  -- this time on Iraq – is lingering for multiple news cycles.  Per the Washington Post,  “A former senior aide to then-national security adviser Condoleezza Rice disputed Bill Clinton's statement this week that he ‘opposed Iraq from the beginning,’ saying that the former president was privately briefed by top White House officials about war planning in 2003 and that he told them he supported the invasion.”

More from the story: “Hillary Mann Leverett, at the time the White House director of Persian Gulf affairs, said that Rice and Elliott Abrams, then National Security Council senior director for Near East and North African affairs, met with Clinton several times in the months before the March 2003 invasion to answer any questions he might have. She said she was ‘shocked’ and ‘astonished’ by Clinton's remarks this week, made to voters in Iowa, because she has distinct memories of Abrams ‘coming back from those meetings literally glowing and boasting that 'we have Clinton's support.'"

The New York Daily News covers Clinton’s tough speech on health care yesterday. "'Among the Democrats, all of us except Sen. Obama have universal health care,' zinged Clinton, insisting Obama's plan would leave out 15 million people because it doesn't force everyone into coverage.”

The Boston Globe: "Hillary Clinton yesterday launched one of her most pointed attacks yet against chief rival Barack Obama, charging that his healthcare plan would leave millions of uninsured Americans ‘virtually invisible.’”

But the Obama folks are very happy with the coverage Clinton's attack on Obama got in Iowa yesterday. This clip from WHO-TV shows the station emphasized that Clinton's speech in Iowa was two hours late due to a plane problem in DC. The Clinton attack on Obama didn't get play until about half way through the story.

Interestingly, per NBC’s Christina Jamison, Clinton didn’t deliver some additional soundbites that were promised according to the excerpts the campaign released before the speech. Per those excerpts, she was supposed to take a couple more shots at Obama:
-- “I believe this is an issue that requires each of us to have the courage of our convictions --not just to talk big, but to act big. Putting band-aids on the problem simply isn’t enough. Now is not the time for half-measures.
-- “I have always stood my ground for universal healthcare, but when Senator Obama’s moment came to step up -- he blinked.”

Asked for a response about these omissions, Clinton spokesman Jay Carson told Jamison that Clinton substituted “tougher stuff” about betraying Democratic values.

The Clinton camp continues to push the health care issue as a contrast with Obama. The campaign is releasing letters from health-care professionals throughout Iowa and New Hampshire, who will ask Obama to re-do his health care plan "and release one that actually provides universal coverage."
 
Meanwhile, Clinton is up with a new TV ad on the economy. It's not quite Clinton to camera but instead, is made to look like Clinton is giving an interview on the subject as she's looking just off camera.

EDWARDS: "When John Edwards returned to his alma mater in 2005 to found a poverty think tank, the multimillionaire attorney sought more than just a salary: He also wanted tickets to University of North Carolina sporting events," the AP reports. But a school spokesman said, "Senator Edwards received no tickets -- and no promise of tickets -- in connection with his university employment."

Is there a reason why the N.Y. Daily News' lead gossip column decided to revisit the Edwards-affair rumor?

OBAMA: The Washington Post does the Obama-Muslim story and ponders: "While considerable attention during the campaign has focused on the anti-Mormon feelings aroused by former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney (R), polls have also shown rising hostility toward Muslims in politics. It is not clear whether that negative sentiment will affect someone who has lived in a Muslim country but does not practice Islam."
 
More: " In the past few months, Obama has actively touted his Christianity, particularly in South Carolina, where his campaign hosted a gospel tour to appeal to black voters. He describes his movement from a ‘reluctant skeptic’ to a believer during his 20s while he was working with black churches in Chicago as a community organizer."

There's a potential "gotcha" story in today's Chicago Sun-Times, which alleges that Obama may have knowingly helped a political donor while on a charity board. But the piece doesn't seem to prove a quid-pro-quo -- but simply offers up circumstantial evidence that used in a direct mail piece or a negative TV ad could paint Obama as a "typical Chicago politician" if older voters in Iowa still believe "Chicago politics" is synonymous with "dirty politics."
 
The Sun-Times headline may be all the Clinton or Edwards camps need for their mailers: "Obama helped ex-boss get $1 million from charity."

Obama spokesman Bill Burton tells First Read, “The facts are clear -- seven years ago while serving in a charitable board position for a foundation that helps redevelop underprivileged communities, Barack Obama voted with many others in support of a project, funded with other foundations, to help build more affordable housing and bring new retail options to low income neighborhoods that were considered too risky for traditional investors. It was good for the community then and now and it was the right thing to do.”

RICHARDSON: The Richardson 500 Tour with the racing Unsers begins today in New Hampshire.

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Comments

Hillary's slipping in the polls?!? Time to roll out Bill again! He's been such a help.
Joe Biden's right, but what else is new?
Biden's foreign policy's experience is hugh compared to both party's leading canidates and his recommendations for Iraq seems very plausible and realistic to attain.
This is not a good time for Hillary to be trending downward. I thought about voting for her in the past, but the more I hear about the fabricated successes of her co-presidency with Bill, the more I hear about a governement program for every ill of the country, the more I hear of her flip-flopping on Iraq, the more I hear about the planted questions for her, then the more I think I'll vote for someone else.
I'm sure given all the other info in the post, this will be another poll driven series of posts, or responses relating to President Clinton's revisionist history. I love Bill Clinton, but he must really think Iowans are dumb, if he thinks we will buy into his being opposed to the war (publicly) before March of 03. Give us a break!

I find it rare, but I have some agreement with Biden on his Iraq points. Yes, the surge seems to have quelled alot of the violence (as has a harden stance with Iran about their unofficial support of insurgents), but the political progress has not been there. I agree with his de-centralized Iraq idea. Three seperate areas witha large degree of autonomous rule, with a limitted central government that sorts out disputes between the regions and handles international affairs. That DOES sound familiar, doesn't it?
Along with the uproar over Bill's statements, you have to wonder if HRC's increasingly personal mud slinging will have the air of desperation about them.  The polling shows her sliding at the same time she is getting nasty, highlights her vunerability and the sense of her getting nervous.
Especially since the Obama camp seems to have a bit of a smile on their faces when delivering the rebuttals.
It cannot help HRC to see that Obama is on the cover of Time this coming week and her husband, Bill, is redoing the 90s with his revisionist history.
the HRC campaign feels like things are out of their control as far as the trip ups and moments.
I have felt all along if she handled the Philly debate with aplomb and humor, everyone has a bad night air, she could have sailed through that without much, if any damage.
What hurt was from her camp's immediate attack response of Casting Russert as evil and then, we were treated to all sorts of games for 2 weeks.  that is what started the problems and things got out of hand from there.  Since then, they cannot seem to gain back the control of the campaign  and have resorted to mud slinging towards just Obama.  This tactic just shows Obama as posing real threats to Hillary and gaining the upper hand.
because she has distinct memories of Abrams ‘coming back from those meetings literally glowing and boasting that 'we have Clinton's support.'"

Why the heck would anybody care whether Bill Clinton was supportive or not?  The way that man has put his foot in his mouth lately, they had better send him back to his office in Harlem and leave him alone.

This clip from WHO-TV shows the station emphasized that Clinton's speech in Iowa was two hours late due to a plane problem in DC. The Clinton attack on Obama didn't get play until about half way through the story.

I guess somebody from team Hillary is over theme lambasting the news director this morning.


Interestingly, per NBC’s Christina Jamison, Clinton didn’t deliver some additional soundbites that were promised according to the excerpts the campaign released before the speech.

a little hard to believe anything Hillary promises.


EDWARDS: "When John Edwards returned to his alma mater in 2005 to found a poverty think tank, the multimillionaire attorney sought more than just a salary: He also wanted tickets to University of North Carolina sporting events," the AP reports. But a school spokesman said, "Senator Edwards received no tickets -- and no promise of tickets -- in connection with his university employment."

If this think tank was supported by the University, he may have had some problems if he had received those tickets.  What is this with Mutimillionaires demanding freebies.  bad enough that billionaire wanted a federal taxpayer earmark for woodstock, now we have another one who is too cheap to buy his own sporting events tickets.  And they say he is for the common man?  I don't think so.

Everybody in this campaign has ties to someone who is crooked in one way or another.  Obama is just part of Chicago politics, can't escape that fact.


ha ha our secrect weapon , Bill . face it hes on our side he knows whats best for the country . Think about it , when your wife wants somthing but you dont want to pay for it or dont want her to have it you cant tell her that .You have to find a subtle way to sabbotage it.  Good job bill i knew you would not let the country down . I bet he wishes she would just shut up and go to her house so he can go do his thang. Obama 08  thanks Bill we love u .
I see Hillaryis44 is busy at work these days.  Maybe they should spend the time buying muzzles for Bill or cases of truth serum for both of them to share.
finally biden gets space, and in his area of expertise, foreign affairs. the issues of medical coverage, immigration and all other domestic policies will be determined not by any one of the candidates but congress in committee. all domestic issues even the budget are going to be negociated and compromised to reflect everybody's oppinion running so the small differences will result in a bill reflecting demo agenda if we win trifecta in 08' [house,senate,pres.] the area of dominance for pres. is foreign affairs and international so when you vote for pres. that should be your focus [civics 101]. the candidates themselves sing in chorus "joe's right" in these areas of pakistan and iraq. if he's right and thats the focus of the presidency then why are we biding our time; vote biden instead!
Here's hoping that the Clinton campaign continues to trumpet the fact that Barack Obama's health care plan doesn't penalize poor people for not being able to afford healthcare.

The funny thing to me is that on one hand Senator Clinton is concerned about all the "middle class" people making over $100,000 a year who may have to pay the same percentage of their above average income as the rest of America to keep Social Security solvent being a "hardship", but she can't understand how someone making half that with skyrocketing housing and fuel costs may have trouble paying a government mandated health insurance bill . . . sounds like someone is out of touch with the man and woman on the street.
One more thing . . . it is comical to me watching how each morning a new "story" appears trying to tie Barack Obama to some new financial scandal . . . desperate times call for desperate measures I guess.

You can almost hear the papers rustling and smell the midnight oil burning as ever area of Barack's life is carefully analyzed for any signs of weakness. Seems like this "naive" and "inexperienced" Senator has the old Democratic political machine flumoxed . . . how can they maintain their influence, perks, and breaks if someone who doesn't owe them anything is elected?

I see more ugliness ahead - here's hoping Barack has an asbestos pantsuit in his closet too - he's sure gonna need it.

NEWSFLASH: Word on the street is that Obama's house gave out better Halloween candy than his neighbors . . . how was this upgraded candy purchased? Were campaign funds used? Inquiring minds wanna know . . . LOL!
Hillary should shut up about the mandate.  Everyone wants more affordable health care not many want a mandate.  Another example of how she is polarizing and unfit to lead.
How can Joe Biden & the other democratic candidates call the Iraq war a failure because the Iraqis haven't "come together politically"? How "together" is our country? We have been a democracy for many years now and seem further apart politically than ever.
You cannot deceive and dupe the American people at every turn and get away with it.  America is sick of Karl Rove politics.  America is sick of being lied to.  America is sick of planted questions and fake news conferences and a President that has a secret agenda.

It's time for REAL CHANGE.  Obama WILL deliver.  The American people are not stupid.  
Obama named "Man of the Year"
Biden is right, as usual.  The progress in terms of security is encouraging (assuming it is not fabricated) but it does not seem that there has been any real movement toward political reconciliation of the various factions in Iraq.  Until that happens, the only way to maintain security in Iraq would be to keep our troops there - and that is not something that the American people want.  
Hillary is doom to fail. She even went further in planting question in republican debate. I don't see her recovering from her lie upon lie.

Folks, you've heard Hillary going after Obama on the health care issue. Like i said before, Hillary is going to loose this argument.

Here is a fact check from Washington post


http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2007/11/clinton_vs_obama_on_health_car.html
Here is another fact check regarding Clinton's heresis on health care.

http://thepage.time.com/from-obama-spokesman-bill-burton/
Thank You Bill!  I think he really does not want her to win.  Why else would he say such things?  He was on Jay Leno in 2003 talking about how the Iraqis were thugs, and criminals and we should go over and bomb them for a couple of months.."that is all it will take and it will be over!" HA HA HA Bill.  He either forgot or just really wants to continue to ruin his wifes life.  If she doesnt get the presidency she will divorce him finally!

Secondly, Barack Obama does not want to FORCE people to get health care if they do not want to.  Hillary wants to fine people for not getting it.  Good thing the "middle Class" makes 100,000 dollars a year and can pay these fines.  
Where were Biden and Edwards at last night debate? They are the best of the bunch, but yet they were not invited? Those are my two choices for President.
You know, let Bill hang in there and continue to put more skepticism in the minds of the voters for HIllary.  He's doing a wonderful job.  And he will actually be going around the world and being the "face of America"?...God help us all.
Unfortunately, Chris Mathew's is the spoke person for the Republican Party and Obama.  He does his best to trash the Clinton's with his raspy voice and he is getting as bad as Bill O'Reilly.  Prehaps MSNBC feels it must pander to the "right wing"..??  Have stopped listening to Chris: I had rather take a long walk instead.  Keith is such a great spokesperson for freedom..and we just return from our walk in time to listen to him.  
Obama is in no way going to deliver.
I was a hard-core Hillraiser until the recent revelations.  I don't think the remarks made by Bill were mistakes---just as I don't think Hillary's need to attack other candidates was her plan.  The campaign is falling because just as the Clintons find it necessary to bash other candidates---America is wondering why.  I will certainly support another candidate who will concentrate on the welfare of the People of America---as oppose to the Clintons working for themselves.
'...A new Clemson University South Carolina poll shows Clinton slipping and Obama pulling within a statistical tie. Clinton is at 19%, Obama 17%, and Edwards 12%. But about half say they are still undecided. When the poll was last taken in August, Clinton held a double-digit lead and stood at 26%.

In New Hampshire, Clinton holds double-digit lead in a new poll. Here are the numbers: Clinton 34%, Obama 22%, Edwards 15%, and Richardson 9%. The same poll in June showed Clinton with an 18-point lead...'

This is why Hillary is going negative
She's slowly starting to lose steam....
But, her solution is to throw mud...

Rather than helping her, this is making her look weak and desperate
She doesn't look 'inevitable', does she ?
She doesn't look 'Presidential' when she's attacking Obama

On top of that ......
All this negativity make open the door for EDWARDS in Iowa !!
If it does, watch Hillary start to slide in NS and SC !!
The two way race will become Obama and Edwards !!

Wouldn't that be a 'Christmas miracle' ??

Obama/Edwards '08
Honesty counts
Integrity counts
All summer, everytime Barack Obama opened his mouth, he was scolded like a child by the media for being naive. Every debate, he is rated as "lackluster" by the media. Chris Matthews went on the air for weeks telling us how Obama had lost is mojo. And NOW all of a sudden, when Hillary Clinton's campaign is imploding, the media is favoring Obama? That's hysterical.
Mandatory health care only works with a single payer system.  

There are all sorts of reasons why that is.  Edwards' and Hillary's plans would cost taxpayers a bundle in necessary bureaucracy.  And the middle class would end up paying even more for inadequate coverage plans.  It wouldn't work.  The tax increase required by Edwards' plan boggles the mind in this economic climate.  Talk about fuzzy math!

Only Kucinich's plan could be mandatory without a huge hidden expense and several years' delay in implementation.  But apparently progressives are not yet ready to support him -  which leads one to wonder if they are really progressives after all.

Obama is right on this one.  It's either his way or Kucinich's.  Otherwise, things will get worse, not better.
Peter Gallagher....Keith Oberman appeals to  you because he comes across as a Clinton supporter and occasional has misrepresented Obama.  It's clear you don't like Chris because he comes across as if he likes obama and dislikes the Clintons.  You are certainly entitled to who you like to listen too, but everyone is just as bias as you in listening to who talks the best about their respective candidate.
Biden,while a decent man,is delusional. The UN is simply in no way and in no shape to ''oversee'' Iraqs political future. Their role in Sudan is now a shambles with more UN ''peacekeepers''pulling out and the central government in Khartoum calling the shots on who THEY want in as replacements. Darfur is falling apart as a result of UN stupidity and outright corruption[funneling food stocks and medicines to African Union contingent commanders,which are then sold black market. Rape is also a problem]. Biden is living a pipe dream. Meanwhile,undetected by any Democrat,is the patent fact that political progress,agonizing in its slow movement,is taking place in Iraq with Shia and Sunni leaders concluding the third of three so-far scheduled talks on reconciliation that were begun in August under the auspices of the government of Ireland. The effect of these talks has produced at least three concrete results that are ignored by Biden.

1. oil revenues are beginning to flow into Iraq,especially in Baghdad,meeting a Biden concern without federalization.There have been no new pipeline attacks that would hamper Iraqs increasing oil production in over three months.

2.the US and Iraq have reached their lowest levels of deaths since 2003,the year of the invasion,with further declines reaching into the Saddam era,particularly in Anbar and the South Marsh area below Baghdad.

3.Refugees continue in large numbers to return to Iraq. Whole neighborhoods in Baghdad have been reclaimed even in mixed Sunni-Shia areas which are in no doubt a result of negotiation between the two religious groups who have worked to push both al Qaeda and the Medhi Army to the sidelines.

                   It is a distinct possibility that Bidens plan could badly damage this progress delivering Iraq into retrograde violence at its 2005-06 levels or worse. I find it strange that the man,who constantly hammered upon the Iraq Study Groups[ISG] findings and using it to bludgeon the president,nevertheless ignores one of its most key findings,that,it was unanimously opposed to any federalization or partitioning plan as envisioned by Biden who clings to this as a drowning man to a lifering.

Also see: www.michaelyon.blogspot.com [newest updates from Baghdad and Fallujah].

         www.usip.org [The Iraq Study Group:Findings].

  The Associated Press/REUTERS/AFP Oct.17,2007:''UN Chief Concerned By Pullout of Group By Sudan Government''

  www.un.org [The United Nations:''Is The UN Failing In Sudan''?
Universal helathcare is a joke. Until you address the REASON healthcare is so expensive, it doesn't matter if the taxpayers are footing the bill or if indivduals are, it will still be expensive. The only difference is with universal healthcare, you will have long waits for even the most basic things and poor overall service.
juan,ft lauderdale,fl

Obama owns Biden on foreign policy. Biden is a continuation of the Albright/Holbrook policy, that allowed Musharraf and bin Laden to come to power, North Korea to launch nuclear tests.

He wants to divide Iraq as if drawing the borders in Oklahoma and Nebraska. That foreign policy does not work. It has resulted to a European-created MESS in the Balkans and a European-created MESS in Africa and will be a US-created MESS in Iraq.

The point is to LEARN from history not repeat the same mistakes.

Not just because of ethnic tension, but because of access to natural resources. A foreign power especially one despised as much as the US CANNOT dictate borders.
Joe Warminster in Pa writes:

"How can Joe Biden & the other democratic candidates call the Iraq war a failure because the Iraqis haven't 'come together politically'?  How 'together' is our country?  We have been a democracy for many years now and seem further apart politically than ever."

I'm sorry Joe Warminster, but your analogy between Iraqi and American politics is misplaced.  Last time I checked I didn't see ethinic cleansing or political assasinations taking place in America between Republicans and Democrats.  I haven't seen a foreign army on American shores trying to keep the peace between Republicans and Democrats.  I haven't seen armed political factions taking to the streets of Washington, D.C. or political operatives placing IEDs in our major cities to blow up churches and innocent bystanders.

Look, our military is doing as fine a job in Iraq as it possibly can, but the sectarian violence will never be totally eliminated through military force.  The sectarian violence will continue and U.S. soldiers and marines will continue to die until such time as the Iraqis forge some sort of political compromise.

Biden is the only candidate who has put forth a plan to facilitate that compromise and bring stability to Iraq.  He calls for the federalization of Iraq so that the Sunnis, Shia and Kurds can each have a degree of autonomy or self-governance within a decentralized Iraqi state.  The country's oil revenue would be shared among the three factions.  The plan is modeled after the United Nation's peace plan in Bosnia which has provided stability and relative peace between the Bosnian Serbs, Muslims and Croats for more than a decade now.  This is how we will win the peace in Iraq and bring our troops home.

The thing I took away from the Republican's You-Tube debate last night was how much "cheerleading" went on among the leading Republican candidates when it came to the Iraq conflict.  No one offered a solution.  With the exception of Ron Paul, in debate after debate, the Republican candidates always talk about how we have to stay in this fight "for our military", "for our honor", "so we don't have another Vietnam", "because we never lost a war", "because if we don't fight them in Baghdad, we'll be fighting them in Boston".  What a bunch of malarkey.  Peace in Iraq will only come when the three factions in Iraq figure out a way to share power.  That requires political compromise, dialogue, and United States leadership.  Unfortunately neither Condi Rice nor George Bush get it.  Joe Biden, however, does.  
My name is Jerry, and I love everything there is about the Clintons. I hereby renounce my prior incorrect political affiliations. All Hail Hillary!
Lee Holmes:  The very talks to which you refer are exactly what Biden has been advocating for the past two years.  How can you be so blind?  This is the political dialogue and compromise that has to take place in order for peace to come to Iraq.  The sharing of oil revenues to which you refer, again a key point in the Biden plan.  
Biden is very knowledgeable.  It is odd he doesn't poll better, he has much better experience than Clinton. On the other hand, what we need is a president who will listen to people like Biden and have the judgment, humanity, and common sense to make the right decisions after weighing all the information and listening to all sides of the issue.  Clearly, that is not George Bush.
Lee,
Most of what you have stated is untrue or distorted. If I sound mean, I apologize, because at least there is ONE Iraq plan on the table and, YES, it needs to be analyzed and scrutinized from all sides, so thank you for that.

1st Biden was the only one to demand US intervention in Sudan and did so vehemently in the first debate. Please also consider that he's moving to expand his Violence Against Women's Act internationally.

2nd, Shia vs Sunni killings and bombings continue to happen everyday? Political settlement and reconciliation is not at hand. You simply stating that it is, is very suspect.

3rd, it is common knowledge that this year is the bloodiest year for the US in Iraq, this is widely reported in the media, unless you have other figures.

4th, Though there are major attempts to bring Iraqis back home, tens of thousands have already left this year and continue to leave... it seems like you're basing your facts on a single report on the program set up to lure back the Iraqi educated populace.

Lastly, to be honest, it seems like the WH wants to move towards Bidens plan as well (especially since it recieved a huge victory in the Senate). They have already started to give local control back to some of the regions to the police. And I'm not sure why this plan would create more problems as it's been a proven success in the Balkans and when the US was a Confederacy.
Hillary will lose this argument if she keeps pushing it. She keeps saying over and over that Obama's plan leave 15 million people uninsured. Sooner or later, someone is going to ask her, "Senator Clinton, how do you plan on enforcing your mandate, and how can you be sure that those who can't afford coverage will get it if they are mandated?"

Expect a response like, "Uh, well, hmmm. Obama's plan leaves 15 million uninsured."

Oops.
I found an old story about domestic violence......
and Hillary Clinton....
Makes me wonder why Barbara Streisand is backing Hillary



http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCommentary.asp?Page=/Commentary/archive/200205/COM20020507c.html
Obama seems to be the only Democrat smart enough to realize that government mandated healthcare would not work. Granted, I would like to see every American able to afford health insurance, but we need to REDUCE COSTS to make this happen. How? First, allow for an increase in the competition for drug manufacturing. Second, reduce the financial liability that physicians are currently under. Those two things alone would go a long way toward cutting costs.
Hillary made a false statement ... "'Among the Democrats, all of us except Sen. Obama have universal health care,' zinged Clinton."

This is taken directly from Joe Biden's website ... "Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden on Tuesday called for expanding access to health coverage for all children and adults, but stopped short of mandating universal coverage. Biden's plan would also improve coverage for catastrophic illnesses, modernize the health care system and encourage wellness."

And Joe is always right, don't forget.  I think is what she meant was "'Among the (top three of which one of them I copied his plan and the other disagrees) Democrats ..."

So yes, Democrats do have a choice to make.  Do they support Clinton's 'sounds-good-on-paper' plan or Obama's 'more-realistic' plan.  If they choose to go with Clinton, I want no complaining when she leads healthcare down the crapper as she did in '93, because there is a reasonable chance of that.
I love people like Matt from Reading that comment about healthcare and you can tell he has no idea what he is talking about. Just a Repulican talking point pulled out of your ass.

It's the same people that say America is the best country on earth and have never traveled outside the country.

Matt, your longer waits comment is a joke have you been to an emergency room lately??? The wait is 4-5 hours before you see someone. Longer waits what a joke.

Poor overall service is another zinger, tell that to people who are being dropped on the corner by taxi from the hospital because they don't have insurance.

You have no idea what you are talking about and your parents dropped the ball on the whole abortion thing.

Save your republican talking points for the fox noise chat rooms.
Lee:  I just don't see a reconciliation between Shia and Sunni happening.  There is an arrogance thing among the Sunni and they view the Shia as their inferiors.  They will never accept a Shia government and no one will go for the Biden federalization program (except maybe the Kurds who have been on their own for 16 years anyway).

The surge is not the cause of the lull in violence.  The turn of recent events is a result of Sunni pulling away from Al Qaeda (the Sunni thought that they were using Al Qaeda as a militant tool against the U.S. and Shia.  As it turned out the price of religious fanatacism was too much to pay for this military arm).  

As Ron Paul said last night, violence is down in the south because Al Sadr is in control.  The Malaki government represents a failed state and only our presence keeps the beaurocracy functioning (if you can call it that).  

This is no reflection on our troops, who have fought bravely and well, but it is a result of a mission that was poorly conceived and was lacking in a plan for follow through (although, that plan would seem to have eluded the best and brightest).  

Are we to be there for eternity?  It sure looks like it.  Will the Sunni's rearm (via the Saudis and Syrians) and launch their own offensive?  Will the various Shia factions engage in conflagation with Al Sadr emerging triumphant, representing the Ayatollah Al Sistani?  Will he be an arm of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard?  

How about the Kurds?  Will they continue their mischief in Turkey and bring a country, whose population hates the U.S. more than does Pakistan's, into the conflict?

This is the quiet before the storm.  It really pisses me off that the MSM is once again, asleep at the wheel and allowing the American public to believe the Bush and McCain surge has turned this miserable effort around.  This, the most disasterous foreign policy decision in the history of our nation, will need some new thinking.  I had to laugh last night, as only Ron Paul recognized the precipcice to which this administration has brought us.  We need some new approaches, mainly intensive diplomacy with Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia, and not more militarism and saber rattling, in order to avert a catastrophe that will make Armageddon seem like a picnic.
Obama '08
How can Joe Biden & the other democratic candidates call the Iraq war a failure because the Iraqis haven't "come together politically"? How "together" is our country? We have been a democracy for many years now and seem further apart politically than ever.
Joe Warminster PA (Sent Thursday, November 29, 2007 10:23 AM)


The difference is obvious.  Democrats are not taking to the street to shoot and/or blow up Republicans, and vice versa.  That's not the case in Iraq.
Er, Cindy?  It was a GOP debate.  They are Democratic candidates.  
The Buddhists have a saying:  as is the gardener, so is the garden.  When I see how HRC/Obama/Edwards are running their campaigns, I get a glimpse about how their presidencies could be.  That's why I'm voting for Biden.    

Think about it when you're watching how all these folks behave.
The reason Hillary's now talking up healthcare is that she's trying desperately to change the topic from her foreign policy experience, which is laughable.

Has anyone noticed that as soon as Obama and others began asking legitimate questions about her “experience”, she changed the subject?

Seems that, on the “experience” score, the lady’s been found out, or at least she’s beginning to be.

What Biden is proposing for Iraq is a Confederacy, independent states with a central government without political powers or the ability to force a cohesion. I have said from the start of Bushs' nation building plan that a forced unity of the Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds would never work given their history of hatred for each other. And as we know from experience neither will a Confederacy work without giving each state independent control of a fair share of the oil fields and access to the Persian gulf. Scrap the unity plan, divide them up into three independent states and bring our troops home
Mitchell -

What is Obama's plan for Iraq?  Specifically.  


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