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First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

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Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC Political Researcher



Rudy, Iowa Christians, a tough sell

Posted: Saturday, December 01, 2007 3:22 PM by Domenico Montanaro
Filed Under: , ,



From NBC/NJ’s Carrie Dann
DUBUQUE, IA -- It's no secret that Iowa Christian Alliance president Steve Scheffler isn't a Rudy fan. But tonight, within spitting distance of Giuliani’s rival GOP candidate Romney, Scheffler explicitly urged Iowa Christians to oppose Giuliani in the race for the nomination. "If our party nominates this guy," he told a crowd at a Dubuque gathering of the ICA, "we will see a bloodbath at the polls like we've never seen before."

Scheffler went on to slam Giuliani's position on same-sex marriage, life issues and gun rights. "Rudy Giuliani cannot be elected," he said, citing the ex-mayor's differences with social conservatives. "We cannot afford to nominate somebody who's out of touch with the base."

Scheffler made the remarks at a house party here before introducing Romney, who talked values and faith to Christian activists in Eastern Iowa. He did not comment on Scheffler's remarks when he took the mic himself.

The Iowa Christian Alliance has indicated that it will not endorse a candidate in advance of the Iowa caucuses. But it is widely considered to be one of the most influential organizing forces in the state for evangelical conservatives. Campaigns will likely watch the ICA's candidate briefing booklet -- to be released next Wednesday -- with close attention.

If you needed a sign that Giuliani might be in trouble in Iowa, consider this statement from Scheffler; Giuliani "needs to come in fourth place" in Iowa, he said. "Or," he added wistfully, "even worse."

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RUDY, INTELIGENT VOTERS, A TOUGH SELL
Bloodbath?
The Iowa Christian Alliance more like the HATE MONGERS ASSOCIATION OF WHITE RASCIST HOMOPHOBES.
Better a bloodbath at the polls than in another third-world country the Republics wish to annex.
"We cannot afford to nominate somebody who's out of touch with the base."

what this guy doesn't udnerstand, is that "the base" is out of touch with the rest of the republican voters out there - who are tired of running election after election with abortion and terry schiavo as the most important issues.
Huckabee is the one we christian conservatives are going to vote for...not Rudy, so listen up electoral college.
He's right and Huckabee is a Rudy pawn.
Mike Huckabee is the only viable candidate that is in touch with the SoCon base and has a record to prove it. Once the FisCons see past the negative attacks and find out that Huckabee's fiscal record is, in fact, reasonably conservative - then Huckabee will shoot right on up to the nomination and the presidency.
A vote for Huckabee is a vote for Rudy!
Pff! I thought the Republican Party base was pro-small business, in favor of low taxes and cutting spending, and for personal freedom.

Rudy is a pro-Constitution sort of guy.  The majority of Americans, or even Republicans, are not pro-life evangelicals.  They need to get over themselves. We gave you George Bush, and what did we get?  Overspending.  
When will these boneheads learn -- THE PRESIDENT HAS VERY LITTLE TO DO WITH ABORTION AND MARRIAGE ISSUES.

If evangelicals smugly refuse to support a moderate candidate like Giuliani, ROmney, or McCain, the result is clear: HILLARY WILL BE PRESIDENT.

Arrogant social conservatives will hand the entire country over to ULTRA-LIBERAL DEMOCRATS is they persist in this purist approach to candidates.  Huckabee CANNOT beat Hillary.  No pro-life social conservative can.  Sorry, folks, but even with God on your side, you don't have the votes.

Giuliani is plenty conservative on all the issues a President actually deals with.  Even more importantly, he can win the general election in a year where the entire Republican Party has been disgraced and discredited by an unpopular war, crazy spending, etc.

My social conservative friends, you will HAVE TO compromise in 2008, otherwise you might as well just cast your vote for Hillary.  Every vote for Huckabee, or anyone like him, is another vote for Clinton.

Note to HP in Boston: intelligent voters generally know how to spell inteligent [sic].
This is the problem with the Republican Party. Single issue religious groups will hand the Oval Office to the Dems.
It's impossible for rational people to gain support from these type of groups, so why try?
Rudy is center, center.  He will win the nomination and the white house.  Many democrats will vote for him.
I am sick of these so called Christian alliances stating they speak for conservative Christians. I am a conservative Christian and I AM VOTING FOR RUDY! It's either Rudy or Hillary, you do the math!
I still can't figure out why Rudy doesn't run for the democratic nomination, a RINO like him would fit in wonderfully there.
Yeah, bloodbath for the Republicans. We wont vote for Rudy PERIOD. he needs to run as a Dem. The reasons we wont vote for Rudy are the same ones we wont vote for Hillary, Obama, Edwards etc...
Evangelical Christians supporting a Mormon is also ludicrous. Maybe the secret underwear is working after all.
What an idiot this guy Sheffler is!  Bloodbath?  Hyperbole?  No, just stupidity.  It is idiots like this guy who will give us Hillary for president.  
Well, if Huckabee gets elected I'll vote for the democrat (and thats a pretty rare event for me).  Huckabee - basically a democrat on taxes, immigration, and healthcare - but also a creationist southern baptist who interprets every word of the bible literally.
Yeah - it will really be a bloodbath.  What a moron this this guy Steve Scheffler is.  Give Christians the choice between Rudy and Hillary and the Christians will take any Republican candidate over Hillary.  Hillary takes so many positions she can't remember which one in a 2 minute answer in the Democratic debates.
Who cares ?
These guys are all the same.
Bush meets with Hillary and some of his staff has joined her campaign. He was the answer for conservatives when he ran before - remember ? Don't bother to vote this time. Just let it happen ! Stay home and enjoy what time we have left.
Really !
VIVA RUDY!!
Rudy G is an A-hole.
Being a right common Baptist,  sort of Christian myself, I see the destruction of America has been done by claming Christians. At least the Morman man has morals and dorsn't lie like others who have to remain nameless here, but you can name them I'll bet.
If Rudy gets the nomination, Ron Paul will get the support of the Christian Right for his third party run.
H P Boston says "Rudy, Inteligent voters, a tough sell"

When someone tries to make a point and sound intelligent in a comment section, and spells intelligent, "inteligent",  it kind of invalidates their point.  I'm not a huge Rudy fan, but a bloodbath?  C'mon...
Oh, yeah. This is MSNBC, home of perkie kati and perkie tommy.  How's that workin' for ya'll?
Let's see....Hillary vs. Rudy. And you want me to believe that the people of this country are that stupid?  lol. Lyin'lamestreammedia=msnbc.
Signed, a true patriot.
These are the same holier than thou people who stabbed America in the back in 2000 and put us through a national agony. They stabbed America in  again in 2006 "I'm way too holy and conservative to vote for MY Republican congressman because there is a gay Republican congressman in Florida."
Bloodbath?  Would the social conservatives REALLY prefer Hillary to Rudy?  Hillary will bring back late term abortions with an Executive Order during her first 24 hours in office.  That's your bloodbath.
We are not voting for PASTOR IN CHIEF!

I am a committed Christian and I wish our 'base' was half as interested in DEFEATING Hillary as it seems to be in NOT voting for anyone who isn't James Dobson....  

You want to talk bloodbath?  (odd metaphor for a Christian guy)

How about when Hillary starts talking tougher on the war for the general election and Mike Huckabee starts in with how taxpayers should give everything to the children of illegals because it isn't their fault?

Let's see the big picture here, shall we?  The president cannot submit legislation, therefore he is irrelevant to the abortion debate unless he VETOES a law overturning Roe, and Rudy already says he won't do that.  He also says he'll nominate strict constitutionalists.  

He would be a much much much better president than Hillary, and if the Christian base can't make themselves vote for him, they deserve the Godforsaken socialist paradise they'll get.  I will vote for Rudy, because I think he's the best leader of the bunch..  and that's what we need in that office.. a leader, not a pastor..  we have plenty of pastors..  

This isn't rocket science, or even rocket theology.
A bloodbath at the polls? I must be missing the metaphor. Maybe its a Hillary/partial birth abortion thing...

Check out politically CONSERVATIVE music at this cop's own web site--i wrote it--I play it @

www.conservativemusiconline.com
Conservatives simply want a candidate who puts America first, and will return to the core principles of limited government. In short, another Ronald Reagan. The big-government clowns who have run the Republican party for the past ten years (our president included) are dangerously out of touch with the base. We want the department of education ended, not doubled in size (thanks W). We want the 1st amendment strengthened, not hobbled (again, W, Campaign Finance Reform), and the BORDERS ENFORCED/ILLEGALS THROWN OUT. Enough is enough.
"Life issues". What is this, 1984? Cut out the newspeak and just say the word, abortion. 'Choice issues' would be just as ridiculous.
Hmmm...I fail to see how republicans can lead America into the 21st century. Trying to screw gays, mexicans and women is not an winning agenda for America to compete against china and india. Republicans are so busy trying to take America back to the 19th century that they forgot we have to compete in the 21st century.
If Huckabee wins Iowa and Romney wins New Hampshire, giuliani will win the nomination. The Iowa Christian Alliance and all social conservatives need to decide to support the same non-Giuliani candidate - Now. Otherwise, we'll be left to choose the lesser of two liberals next November.
The base. How very apt for this domestic terrorist. See Patriot Act:
   (5) the term `domestic terrorism' means activities that--

       `(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;

       `(B) appear to be intended--

           `(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;

           `(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or

           `(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and

       `(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.'.

This: "If our party nominates this guy," he told a crowd at a Dubuque gathering of the ICA, "we will see a bloodbath at the polls like we've never seen before."
can and should be construed as a threat to the voters of Iowa.
Hey: "Blood bath."  Allegorical, methphorical or not, I, as an Evangelical will vote for Gulianni ANY DAY before ANY democrat.
I always find it disconcerting when alleged Christians refer to  the imagery of "bloodbaths."
How about the bloodbath in Iraq you support so much?
We will see a bloodbath at the polls?  Give me a break!  These people will still vote for Giuliani if he wins the Republican nomination.  What is their alternative ... Hillary Clinton?  To conservatives, she is the anti-Christ.
We New Yorkers know Rudy has hoodwinked you outsiders.  You don't know him for the pathologically cruel tyrant that he is.
Voting for Giuliani IS voting for a democrat.
Democrats are scum.
Unfortunately, I don't see any Republican (be they religous or not) beating Hillary. Our candidates are not strong this go around. Jeb Bush should run however his brother has hurt the Bush name.
Unfortunately, I don't see any Republican (be they religous or not) beating Hillary. Our candidates are not strong this go around. Jeb Bush should run however his brother has hurt the Bush name.
Huck is just another Bush. Phyllis Schlafly, president of the national Eagle Forum, is even more blunt. "He destroyed the conservative movement in Arkansas, and left the Republican Party a shambles," she says. "Yet some of the same evangelicals who sold us on George W. Bush as a 'compassionate conservative' are now trying to sell us on Mike Huckabee." Betsy Hagan, Arkansas director of the conservative Eagle Forum and a key backer of his early runs for office, was once "his No. 1 fan." She was bitterly disappointed with his record. "He was pro-life and pro-gun, but otherwise a liberal," she says. "Just like Bill Clinton he will charm you, but don't be surprised if he takes a completely different turn in office." and there's plenty more like this on old Huck too... source: http://opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110010782
GO ROMNEY!!!!!!!1
What this country needs is a change...where everyone is important, not just right or left.  Jesus said to love our neighbors as we love him.  Forget illegal immigration, gay marriage, "don't ask, don't tell"...these issues are insignificant to re-uniting this country.  My vote is for Huckabee or Obama.  I would be happy with either.
 If it comes down between Rudy or Oboma, I still vote Rudy no matter what, if it where the NY witch Hillary  or Rudy I still would vote Rudy, but I do want someone else to be the GOP candidate, I like Huckabee or someone of faith! I would vote for the devil before I would ever vote for Hilary. Beware in 2012 Oboma will be a huge force, Hillary is already a flamed out star to nowhere and in 2012 she will a zero ! She looses 10 out 10 primaries by huge numbers, Oboma will be the Demonicrats candidate and will loose the general election by a good margin, he will be the Manchurian Candidate in 2012 and will tough to beat!


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