Way to go Obama. The youth vote does count!!! You are just truly awesome!!!

Brilliant move by Obama!! Couple of months ago, the same pundits said students don't vote nor do they matter. Now, they are criticizing Obama for getting students fired up.

At every junction in the world history students have always made the right changes. Even in the recent Venezuela referendum, students were the voice of reason, how much more USA.

Students should not be intimidated and should defy all odds by caucusing for Obama come January 3rd, 2008.  

Can you imagine if Hillary had made a push like this?  Come on, Obama.  Where are the new kind of politics you talked about?  Sounds mighty tricky and familiar to me.

Yepsen is wrong on this. Out of state students in Iowa VOTE in Iowa because they LIVE in Iowa 9 months out of the year. Their right to vote was negatively impacted by moving the date to January 3rd.  Is Yepsen suggesting that candidates are doing wrong by informing students of their voting rights ?  I would  think Yepsen's concern would be for the rights of young voters.  

When does school start at Iowa State????

You mean kids could be coming back almost two weeks early and have to sit around the dorm all day instead of being home with their family????

And worse, god forbid, what would happen if some of those kids got hurt or killed on their way back to Iowa just for this?

pretty gutsy move by Obama, he has Hillary on the run, he just needs to think this one through a bit more...

If they're going to school in Iowa, that means they're living in Iowa at least 9 months out of the year for 4 (or 5 or 6, you super-seniors) years. So, if they aren't allowed to vote, should we disqualify people who move south during the winter months because they don't live in one state year-round? Or what about if some of the students can't afford to travel home over the break or are staying to work? Are they disqualified too?

It's much much worse than this. I certainly hope News media will keep a close eye on this. This story may become the biggest scandal coming out of caucus night.

Here's some tidbits from an Illinois high school student who lives in a town in IL but not far from IA.
Read Obama campaign's dirty tricks...

1. i can confirm that a certain campaign is now recuriting and enlisting high school and college students from Illinois to Caucus in Iowa. three options for transportation:

Bus
car-pooling with community campaign leaders
or
Train.

I was asked to caucus.lol

2.My community leader has asked certain elligible seniors in school who qualify under these terms:

–will be 18 or already are by next november (2008)
–have a residence (home), family or relationship (relatives, etc) in Iowa (believe me…a lot of Illinoisers do.)

As to transportation:

It is suggested we take either one of bus, train, or carpool. Carpool is provided by community leaders. Other methods, not sure about yet.

3.everything is done over the phone. There is a list of names and a paragraph thing i think on top as to what will hapen and stuff, but the stuff is kept by my community leader and he would never give it out freely

How do you spell disenfranchisement

If these students registered in Iowa it is not their fault the caucus was moved up.  If it had been held Jan. 10th when school was back could they have caucused.  How about students in primary states that vote absentee...how is it any different.

These students/young adults have worked hard and have a right to exercise their right to vote

Ya know, I remember it like it were only yesterday. It was September 1996. I was a college sophomore at the beginning of the school year at Cornell College just outside of Cedar Rapids. I remember getting on a bus and driving to Des Moines to hear President Clinton speak. Before the main dinner that he was addressing, there was a separate rally and speech for us students. There were a few thousand of us gathered in the garage of the arena Clinton was speaking at. I remember that speech. It was nearly verbatim to what Obama is saying now to students.

Funny how something like this is "controversial" when it is someone other than a Clinton saying it.

I say, do what is fair, right and lawful to Iowa, whatever that is.  My experience to the North has it being okay in past elections, but I'm not so familiar with the caucuses.  I don't know what is fair, but it is the DNC's or RNC's or Iowa's responsibility to decide.  You can't blame Obama for courting votes that exist.

This is where I meant to post this earlier:

I wonder why this is "controversial"? Who is/was stopping the other candidates from doing the same thing? This is a completely legal practice that the campaign is doing OPENLY, not in secret.  All this whining and moaning about a few college students who will not get to vote at home if they don't vote at school seems a little overwrought to me.

Mike:

Gee, so you are saying that Obama is taking his talking points directly from Bill Clinton.  I thought he was the anti-Clinton?  

Imagine how the US would be a different and mostly better place if young people voted in large numbers.  If we're ever to cure the low voter turnout that makes it so easy to game the political process it has to be done by getting people into the habit of voting while they're still young.

The co-president of Students for Hillary at the University of Iowa is an Illinois native. The co-chair of Students for Hillary at Iowa State University, Sarah Sunderman, will be home in Minnesota for the holidays, and will be driving back to attend the caucus.


http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=CD24A2C2-3048-5C12-00957B40A6837A9E

http://www.gwu.edu/%7Eaction/2008/clinton/clinton100207pria.html

I have one question.  These students that will be coming back here to caucus - will they also be driving BACK to IL for that contest as well?  If they are going to forego participation in IL for Iowa, that's fine with me.  But if they come to IA to caucus, IL (or whatever their home state is)should be off limits.  

hmmm, if the potential voter is registered in Iowa how is it a dirty trick to request that they vote?

Folks,

Here is another argument that Clinton machine cannot spin regarding the new intelligent report. Barack Obama is right all along.

Now, this NIE on Iran does open up some more contrast possibilities for Barack.. He has said all along he wants to talk to Iran immediately.. they clearly have suspended their nuke weapon program since 2003 and lately have stopped providing IED's to the shia in Iraq to attack americans with.. so Iran is attempting some goodwill gestures,it appears. Of course , there we have HRC voting for the Kyle-Lieberman Iran resolution to ramp up the attack Iran rhetoric and giving bush a pretext for attacking.. what is wrong with this picture?

So Barack can calmly point out that:
A. NIE estimates must be read(HRC neglected to bother to read the NIE that cast doubt on WMD in Iraq before voting to allow bush to invade Iraq) and taken seriously.

B. Any rush to escalate the rhetoric with a resolution like kyle-lieberman is now clearly seen as being a mistake in light of this new info and it is unfortunate that HRC is stuck in the conventional foreign policy thinking of the past and of bushco.

C. Obama's willingness to meet with Iranian leaders could yield more progress quickly and HRC's labeling it naive and inexperienced is dead wrong.. and her pre-conditions required before talking could forestall any progress.

To me, this report is clear evidence that Iran can be negotiated with if the right person is in charge..ie.Obama.. think of the immediate impact of an easing of tensions in the middle east..as biden said their is a 30 dollar a barrel risk premium built into the 90 dollar oil price.. bring that down to 60 bucks and the worlds economy is back to humming along..and creating resources for exploring alternate energy sources..

Question:

Does anybody know the law on this? I always thought one had to vote from one's legal residence, so if the students are legal residents of Iowa, what would preclude them from voting in Iowa?  

Students attending school on out-of-state status have one of two options: change their voter registration to allow them to vote in the state their school's in caucus or primary and then general election, or to remain registered in their home state and vote via absentee ballot.

All Obama's camp is attempting to do is to tell the students of their options. Hell, Cornell was telling students their options when it came to voting in elections. It shouldn't be against the rules for a campaign to get students involved in politics, not at such an important juncture in our nation's history.

Too often we think our young people don't understand the world around them, or worse yet, don't give a flying f--k about it. I really don't think that's the case, especially lately. They're just as tied in to the rest of the world via the internet as some of us are via TV and radio. They know the world is messed up right now and a lot of it has to do with our present administration. This is the time for them to have their voice heard. I find nothing wrong with Obama's push and in fact encourage him to continue doing it. If the chief political reporter from the Des Moines paper can't see that young people voting is a GOOD thing, he should be relieved of his duties because he fails to understand what democracy and the right and power of the ballot really mean.

Check this out about Obama's record in Illinois Senate:
http://thepage.time.com/obama-response-to-clintons-iowa-remarks-monday/

Folks,

I think we should advocate for Lincoln-Douglas kind of debate between Obama and Hillary Clinton. No 30 seconds sound bite but real debate on the issues.

I am pretty sure Obama will school her on the issues.

There's absolutely nothing wrong or illegal about it.  Had the primary been two weeks later, this would have been a non-issue, because it is 100% within the out-of-state students rights to vote in Iowa because they are -students- in Iowa.  If you don't like it, take it up with the *Iowa legislature*.

But as long as these students have a RIGHT to vote, well then by all means we need to SECURE their right.  It's the exact same with the "horrible" thing "leaf" up there talked about, the high school voters.  As long as you are 17 and will be 18 in time to vote in the election, you are LAWFULLY allowed to caucus.  -Everyone remember Hillary's "caucusing is easy" ad?  With Bill eating a hamburger?  No riga-ma-roar over that... they were courting those young first time caucus-goers as well.

Don't blame Obama for ensuring that someone rightfully exercises their right to vote.  Even out of state students are STILL CONSIDERED IOWANS by Iowa law.

Any proof that Hillary read the NIE...
LOL...

I have one question.  These students that will be coming back here to caucus - will they also be driving BACK to IL for that contest as well?  If they are going to forego participation in IL for Iowa, that's fine with me.  But if they come to IA to caucus, IL (or whatever their home state is)should be off limits.  

---------------------------------------------------

Illinois presidential primary is Feb. 5, 2007 and the students will be in school during this period. I guess this put your argument to rest.

Carrie wrote :I have one question.  These students that will be coming back here to caucus - will they also be driving BACK to IL for that contest as well?  If they are going to forego participation in IL for Iowa, that's fine with me.  But if they come to IA to caucus, IL (or whatever their home state is)should be off limits.  

----------------------------------------

I had the same question-is it possible they could particpate in the Iowa caucuses and then vote in the IL primary? Is that legal and how would anybody check?

The fact is that voting laws are explicit: As a college student, you are allowed to vote in the state where you go to school, as you live there most of the year.

Most college students have their permanent addresses listed as their parents' homes, even though they basically live in the state where they go to school.

There is some dirty politics here, but it's not by Obama. Hillary is clearly trying to disenfranchise the youth vote because of the simple fact that young people overwhelmingly support Obama.

Remember, in The Color Purple, when Oprah curled up her chubby fist? Remember Hillary?

Mike:

Gee, so you are saying that Obama is taking his talking points directly from Bill Clinton.  I thought he was the anti-Clinton?  
Carrie, Eastern Iowa (Sent Monday, December 03, 2007 5:02 PM)

-------------

Nope. But if Clinton can do it, so can all the other candidates, right? It wasn't against the rules or law then, why should it be now?

As others have said, the shifting of the caucus calendar has caused confusion. The candidates do have the right to help answer any questions or concerns these possibly disenfranchised voters have.

I have one question.  These students that will be coming back here to caucus - will they also be driving BACK to IL for that contest as well?  If they are going to forego participation in IL for Iowa, that's fine with me.  But if they come to IA to caucus, IL (or whatever their home state is)should be off limits.  

Carrie, Eastern Iowa (Sent Monday, December 03, 2007 5:05 PM)

Agreed. But they definitely shouldn't be left out of Iowa - if that is the location they choose - for reasons stated in my 4:47 PM post.

I have one question.  These students that will be coming back here to caucus - will they also be driving BACK to IL for that contest as well?  If they are going to forego participation in IL for Iowa, that's fine with me.  But if they come to IA to caucus, IL (or whatever their home state is)should be off limits.  
Carrie, Eastern Iowa (Sent Monday, December 03, 2007 5:05 PM)

---------------

No. They have to decide one or the other. I could not caucus in Iowa and vote in the then Colorado primary in 1996.

Bee,

If the Iran issue was so important why did he not vote againest the bill? Was campaining for President 8 months before an election more important than being a leader on this issue? When he goes to actually talk with Iran - will he actually show up?

Interesting Bee... Always wanting it both ways

There you go, Obama...play the race card..put in in CIVIL RIGHTS terms.

If Hillary had said that, every news media and no doubt led by crackpot, woman hating, multimillionaire Chris Matthew would be shouting and screaming at her.
The Obama camaign, Obama himself would be frothing at the mouth if Hillary had said such a thing...

No, I'm wrong...Saint Obama would be playing the pious holier than thou card he plays sdo well.

Shame on the Obama campaign for trying to pull such a stunt on the Iowa voters.

OBAMA'S HOPEFUND ? Show me where the money was spent ?$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

can some one please bring me up to speed? i read that full time students are allowed to vote in the  caucus in iowa because they are there long enough to be considered residents as well as the fact that a large number pay taxes. it is my understanding that this is totally legal in iowa. if it isn't breaking the law and the caucus bylaws allow this why is it wrong? is it not true that all the candidates can take advantage of this bylaw and not just obama?

leaf, i have a question. this statement that you wrote about a student in illinois saying obama was using high school students to caucus in iowa. what is the source of this allegation? is it a credible source? are they talking about caucusing as volunteers or voting? where do i go to confirm this allegation? what website or media source can be used to verify this story? if it is true it is important to all of us who have yet to decide who we are going to support. How do we verify such a serious allegation?

I had the same question-is it possible they could particpate in the Iowa caucuses and then vote in the IL primary? Is that legal and how would anybody check?

Dot, Illinois (Sent Monday, December 03, 2007 5:15 PM)

It's not legal, but it is possible to do if you can slip by the people who keep track of voter regristration records. It's not advisable to try, though.

obama a man who sdupposedly is there to "inspire" young people to hope and character is trying to get the OUT OF STATE college students to come back to Iowa to caucus to throw the vote in his favor....WHAT!!!

Now's that's real trusttworthy and a REAL ROLE MODEL for a change to hope in this country,

That does it, Obama-ites.  Your boy just lost any crediility with me and probably a lot of other voters he had hood winked with his hoopla-hope speeches.

Not voting for you now or ever, Mr. Obama Hyprocrite.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2007-12-03-poll-clinton-giuliani_N.htm
Hillary's "massive lead" tanks in newest national poll!

If the Iran issue was so important why did he not vote againest the bill? Was campaining for President 8 months before an election more important than being a leader on this issue? When he goes to actually talk with Iran - will he actually show up?

Interesting Bee... Always wanting it both ways .

---------------------------------------------------

Why can't you put your name behind your post and stop hidding in the dark?  Another way of distorting the facts.

Leaf, those are some pretty serious charges you're spreading, but where is the proof?  Tell your friend to go to the media.  Then we'll see just how much truth there is to his/her story.  

As for the article, everyone else here has already pointed out that this is completely legal.  Some students change their residency in college and some do not.  Iowa residents are allowed to vote.  End of story.

If I lived in Iowa, I'd be really unhappy with Mr. Obama trying to "steal" the vote and the will of the Iowa citizens by stacking the deck with out of state people bussed in to caucus.

Let Illionis decide their own election.

The politics of hope, Mr. Obama.  You HOPE you can steal the vote in Iowa.

Pretty disgusting.

Imagine if Hillary bussed a bunch of college kids from her state of New York next door to New Hampshire to change the vote.

David Axelrod would have blown a gasket.  So would the obama supporters.

Obama, you don't play fair while acting to holier than thou.

That's what we call a HYPROCRITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And forget about out usual tactic of trying to wiggle out of your disgusting behavior by saying Hillary and the other candidates did it too.

On the NIE. If they're wrong can we dig out all the ones that said they were still working on nukes, and prove how the NYT and DeMyopicRats cherry picked the info they wanted? Just asking :-)

Looked into it further...it happens more than you think - most of the time unintentionally (people sending in absentee ballots, forgetting, then voting in person).

Check out this link for more info:

http://www.slate.com/id/2108807/

Synopsis: Intentionally voting twice is a third-degree felony in most states (not sure which ones), and violates federal election-fraud laws. Punishable by 5-10 years in prison and fine of $5,000 to $10,000.

In sum, I wouldn't advise it.

No, Carrie, I don't think they can vote twice.  Our country believes strongly in one person, one vote.  Do some people do it, I'm sure.  Do most people, I doubt it.  One vote just isn't worth all that much for all the riggemeroll (somebody help with the spelling).  Makes me support some minimum standards to demonstrate voting eligibility.

I know that in Minnesota, it is legal to vote in our elections going to school here, even though their legal residence is elsewhere.  I guess those students do pay some taxes or tuition at the very least into the economy.  So, I don't think it's new to this caucus, and I do think it's lawful.  It can, however, be given the appearance of being shady, and that is what will harm Obama most in the issue.


Bee: I would assume that the students could legally skip the Iowa caucuses and do a write-in ballot for *name state here* primaries.

There you go, Obama...play the race card..put in in CIVIL RIGHTS terms.

If Hillary had said that, every news media and no doubt led by crackpot, woman hating, multimillionaire Chris Matthew would be shouting and screaming at her.
The Obama camaign, Obama himself would be frothing at the mouth if Hillary had said such a thing...

No, I'm wrong...Saint Obama would be playing the pious holier than thou card he plays sdo well.

Shame on the Obama campaign for trying to pull such a stunt on the Iowa voters.

disgusted (Sent Monday, December 03, 2007 5:28 PM)

If you understood what you just said, you would be embarassed. Lucky for you, you probably don't. "Civil rights" is not simply a "race card". Civil rights encompasses privacy, gender, sexual orientation, VOTING, etc. You are exposing your ignorance the more you post, and you are giving us more reasons why nobody should take you seriously.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/02/opinion/02rich.html?em&ex=1196830800&en=5ead4c3bdc272622&ei=5087%0A
"Who's Afraid of Barack Obama" NY Times, an honest and insightful look at a candidate the Clintons fear.

I find it perplexing that people in this thread are so upset by this. College students are in a postion where they live full time in the state where they go to school. Going home for Christmas break is like any other citizen going to visit relatives out of state for the holidays and then returning to Iowa in time for the caucus. They are caucusing in the state where they live!

As for the questions of voting in two primaries: No, you cannot do that. You chose one where you want to vote. Voting in two primaries is a violation of federal election law. Iowa students caucusing in Iowa make a decision to caucus there instead of the state where their parents live.

And to Leaf: Those are some baseless accusations you are making. Let's review: To vote in Iowa, you have to prove domicile. The way college students do that is they get an affidavit from their college that confirms they live in Iowa most of the year. High school students from another state simply could not do that. Most likely, high school students from IL were asked if they wanted to volunteer with the campaign (doing GOTV, etc.), not caucusing. This is a standard practice that all campaigns do to get volunteers.

The bigger points are that this is totally legal, completely above the table, and ALL of the campaigns do it. The real hypocrite here is Hillary for criticizing Obama supporters for doing the same thing many of her supporters are doing.

There are a lot of things in this country that are "so called LEGAL but morally bankrupt.

I'm sickened by those trying to sleeze their way out of this Obama trying to fix the caucus by saying...well it is after all legal.

I agree with who ever said that if Hillary did the same thing with New York kids in New Hampshire it sure as heck wouldn't be legal to Obama supporters them or to New Hampshire voters.

Don't even think of doing that stuff, Obama or even Hillary here.  We are tougher than the Iowans.

Won't work Obama supporters.  Your candidate got caught.

From The Caucus
NYT political blog:

'...December 2, 2007,  4:17 pm
An Attack, From the Candidate’s Mouth
By Patrick Healy

CEDAR RAPIDS, Iowa – At a news conference here just now, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton expanded her attacks on Senator Barack Obama by suggesting that he has a character issue because of his assertions that his health insurance plan covers all Americans (which she disputes) and because his old political action committee spread around money in early presidential nominating states.
Asked if Mr. Obama had a character problem, Mrs. Clinton first said it was up for voters to determine, but then added:
“It’s beginning to look a lot like that – it really is, where we can’t get a straight answer on health care, where somebody runs on ethics and not taking money from certain people is found to have at least skirted if not violated F.E.C. rules and to use lobbyists and Pac money to do so. You’re going to have ask the Obama campaign, but I have said for months that I would much rather be attacking Republicans and attacking problems of our country because ultimately that’s what I want to do as president.....'

What's your staight answer on Social Security taxes ?
What's your straight answer on war with Iran ?
What's your straight answer on Norman Hsu ?
Why did you take $ 850,000 from him without investigating his background ?
Isn't it hypocritical to criticism Obama on campaign finances when you're so corrupt ?
Does that show a 'character flaw' ?

What's your staright answer on being the 'face of foreign policy' in the Clinton administration ?
Are you 'truth challenged' about that ?

'...“But I have been for months on the receiving end of rather consistent attacks – well now the fun part starts,” Mrs. Clinton said, punctuating the word “fun.” “We’re into the last month, and we’re going to start drawing the contrasts, because I want every Iowans to have accurate information when they make their decisions.”
We’re about to take off from Cedar Rapids so an Obama campaign statement will have to wait. But here’s what Mr. Obama had to say earlier about Clinton campaign attacks on him:
“I think that folks from some of the other campaigns are reading the polls and starting to get stressed and issuing a whole range of outlandish accusations,” he said at a Des Moines news conference....'

You said it, baby !!
Slick Hilly, what about the Norman Hsu donations ?
Did you REALLY GIVE ALL THE MONEY BACK ?
Didn't you campaign shenanigans show a 'character issue', Hillary ?
Did you ever give back the money you swindled out of investors at Whitewater ?
Did you EVER APOLOGIZE ??

Are you getting rattled because you're no longer the front runner ?


Hillary Clinton, cold, calculating, dishonest, unethical

I am, and have always been, a resident of the State of Minnesota. In 1996, and again in 1998, I voted in Madison, WI, while I was attending the University of WIsconsin-Madison. By Hillary's (and her supporters') logic, that vote was illegal.

Should I be punished for a federal crime, even though the state allowed same day registration?

Please, let's see some truth out there, instead of simple campaign talking points. People are smarter than just a one-liner or buzz phrase.

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