ABOUT FIRST READ

First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



First thoughts: 30 days to go

Posted: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 9:16 AM by Domenico Montanaro
Filed Under:

From Chuck Todd, Mark Murray and Domenico Montanaro
*** Thirty days to go...: ...until Iowa, where most of the Democratic candidates participate in the NPR/Iowa Public Radio debate… Plenty of news today about Hillary blasting Obama -- yet Obama not necessarily fighting back… Bill Clinton returns to the trail… And Bush holds a news conference this morning, where he’ll likely receive numerous questions about the National Intelligence Estimate’s conclusion that Iran stopped its nuclear program in 2003.

*** Is Iran off the table? Back in October, after Bush warned in a press conference that a nuclear Iran could spark World War III, we wondered if Iran was becoming the new Iraq -- and if that could possibly help the Republicans in a general election, because it would allow them to talk about that and not Iraq. But does the new NIE throw cold water on that idea? What happens if Rudy Giuliani, Mitt Romney, or Fred Thompson can no longer raise the specter of a nuclear Iran in a general election? That said, Iraq might not be as big of a problem for the Republicans as it was in the fall.

*** Third-party groups galore: With less than a month before Iowa, evidence of third party groups deciding to get involved in the caucuses is popping up all over the place. There are the expected players, like EMILY's List and AFSCME (whose TV ads in Iowa begin tomorrow) for Clinton and local SEIUs for Edwards. There’s also this pro-choice GOP group against Romney. And now, another third-party player is for Huckabee, while a Democratic group today introduces a TV ad attacking Hillary. Who else is going to jump in? If you thought keeping track of all the Democratic and Republican candidates was a challenge, just think about also keeping tabs on all of these interest groups. We're guessing that every day between now and January 3 will bring rumors of some new group.

*** No counterpunch: Yesterday, Clinton whacked Obama -- this time over his record in the Illinois state Senate. But a funny thing happened: Obama didn’t really punch back. One gets the sense that the Obama folks don't want the next three weeks to be about Clinton and Obama "trading" potshots, for fear it could tarnish his image more than it hurts Clinton. Voters may expect Clinton to get involved in a political back-and-forth and not punish her as strongly as they'll punish Obama if he appears to get too negative. Edwards has seen this movie before now, hasn't he? Of course, it looks like the press -- just look at today’s New York Times and Boston Globe -- might be providing the counterpunch for Obama.

*** Maybe video didn’t kill the radio star: Seven of the Democratic candidates -- Biden, Clinton, Dodd, Edwards, Gravel, Kucinich, and Obama -- participate in a debate in Iowa at 2:00 pm ET sponsored by NPR and Iowa Public Radio. This debate, hosted by NPR’s Robert Siegel, Michele Norris and Steve Inskeep, can only be accessed via radio or the Web. There are no time limits for answers, and the candidates will have the opportunity to ask their rivals questions. Don't expect too many fireworks in the debate. Think about who's listening to it -- it's probably potential Dem voters who will not like negative back-and-forths. The NPR wing of the Dem Party is Obama's base, though no Dem wants to be on the losing end of the wine and cheese caucus.

*** Guess who’s back… back again… Bill is back… tell a friend: Bill Clinton returns to the campaign trail, stumping today throughout New Hampshire (in Keene, Claremont, and Lebanon). And after making news during previous campaign stops -- saying that he opposed the Iraq war from the beginning, and lumping criticism his wife received to the Swift Boat attacks -- you can be sure that reporters will tape record and jot down everything he says. Joining Bill in stumping for a spouse in New Hampshire will be Michelle Obama, who does a roundtable with working women in Portsmouth.

*** On the trail: Elsewhere today, Giuliani raises money in DC; Huckabee campaigns in Iowa and began his day by calling into Don Imus’ radio show; McCain stumps in New Hampshire; Obama, after the NPR debate, holds rallies tonight in Grinnell and Iowa City; Paul appears on The View in New York City and later visits New Hampshire; Romney also is in New Hampshire; Tancredo unveils a new TV ad in Des Moines, IA; and Thompson is in South Carolina.

Countdown to Iowa: 30 days
Countdown to New Hampshire: 35 days
Countdown to Michigan: 42 days
Countdown to Nevada and SC GOP primary: 46 days
Countdown to SC Dem primary: 53 days
Countdown to Florida: 56 days
Countdown to Tsunami Tuesday: 63 days
Countdown to Election Day 2008: 336 days
Countdown to Inauguration Day 2009: 413 days

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Comments

Yay! NPR.  I already gots my fake highbrow accent in places.  Yeeesss.

*** No counterpunch: Of course he’s not going to counterpunch.  1) It gives him even more the appearance of frontrunner.  2) He has nothing to gain from getting into a he said/she said petty argument now.  3) Obama will certainly respond to charges that mean something, but she’s not throwing anything of substance out right now.  And she’s not connecting them into a narrative, not big picture and I think people respond to that.  Now, if she wanted to get his attention, she could ‘swiftboat’ him, though hardly advisable to her campaign.  4) Keep explaining it how it is Obama.
Obama doesn't have to verbally counterpunch because most of Clinton's charges are so baseless as to be silly, not to mention so numerous that it would eat into constructive speech time.  Trying to hit him for "present" votes on abortion that he coordinated with planned parenthood because they were republican trap votes?  Trying to make it seem like he had no position on Iran when he forcefully stated "no" before, the same day, and after?  Trying to tie a kindergarten essay to his ambition?

As I said on Sunday and the new article in Time today points out, Clinton is taking a major risk by making the attacks personally.  Obama responds just enough to make her look immature and then lets his campaign machinery answer these baseless charges one by one.  Virtually every article to date has been a process article about her attacking, rather than an article about whether her attacks have merit.  I'll close my thoughts in a way I never have before: keep it up, Hillary.  
The president of the USA can't vote "present" instead of "yes or no".

The president can not dodge the big fights...can not find political cover or have WORDS LOUDER THAN ACTIONS.

We need a president who is not afraid to take a stand rather than a "present or pass" on the important issues facing our country especially now after the disasterous George Bush.

We need a strong leader.  We need a tested leader who has proven they are what it takes to fight for the American people.
George IA (Sent Tuesday, December 04, 2007 10:48 AM)

Well Clinton does think all the fighting is fun, but fighting never accomplishes anything.  Look at Congress right now, ZERO, ZILCH is getting done.  Real leaders move beyond partisan bickering to bring people together.  Hillary promises the opposite: to FIGHT Republicans and even fellow democrats.

And careful how you phrase the whole "take a stand" issue if you are going to support HRC.  Her only stand on MANY contentious issues is "form a bipartisan committee and see what other people think."  Her stand on Iran is to hedging her bet by playing cowboy diplomacy with Bush.  She has no stand on SS.  She hardly has a stand on drivers lisences.  She has a few flip-flops tossed in (I'm positive!  No! I'm negative!)

She even PLANTS QUESTIONS so she doesn't have to answer the hard questions...

Again, careful how you try to defend her.  It'll come back to bite you, just like it is currently coming back to haunt her.
I distinctly remember earlier into the fall Hillary-supporters were cursing Obama for making criticisms against Hillary, and praising her for being 'above the fray' by not responding to them. Seems like the roles have been reversed now, eh? But of course Clinton supporters are now whining that he's running scared from Hillary's 'meaningful accusations'(a paper form KINDERGARTEN? SERIOUSLY?). You're just mad cause Obama is beating her at her own game! Now SHE looks like the one who leading the 'negative campaign', HA!
Bunch of talking heads that cannot convert a single voter. When you Hillary bloggers are done with your talking point, please tell me how many people you've won over.

Please tell me how many Republican, Independent and Democrats leaning towards other candidates you've manage to convert to Hillary's camp.

I want specificity not fluffs and platitude.
JJ in NJ

I listen to and financially support NPR so I was amused by the wine and cheese comment. Talk about silly stereotypes! As far as the comment about the listeners being voters who probably will not like negative back and forths, well I would plead guilty, because I think that's a good thing.

Oh, and I also watch and support PBS so I suppose there is really no hope for me.
Being married to a president does not qualify one to be president.

Being married to a president does not qualify one to be president.

Being married to a president does not qualify one to be president.

Being married to a president does not qualify one to be president.

Being married to a president does not qualify one to be president.

Being married to a president does not qualify one to be president.
to tiarap houston, mr. edwards like others have good qualities and should get more media attention.

i would like to point out to you that no candidate has made any personal comments except mrs. clinton(i think she is better than that strategy).

the first person that was highly vocal about policy differences was mr. edwards towards ms. clinton. if you remember mr. obama was called inexperience and naive amongst other things for months and didn't fire back. the american public began to wonder why he didn't defend himself. two months ago he finally decided to become more voiceferous about his policy differences between him and mrs. clinton. she rightfully had the duty to respond to those differences.

i suggest to you that with a little bit of research(on your part) that he has not attacked mrs. clinton personally to date. neither mr. edwards, mr. biden, mr. dodd, mr. richardson or mr. kucinich have attacked another candidate personally. only mrs.clinton has decided to take that approach recently. this something you can check.

please don't take my word for it. i like facts. since i am still deciding who i may support i do a lot of research and fact checking. it helps that i am not biased because i take voting seriously and i refuse to just believe what i hear or read everywhere. i want to make sure i don't get this wrong.
Sorry George, but I don't believe being "tough" is the appropriate criterion for being president.  That's George Bush's approach.  Right now I'm listening to yet another Rudy Guliani radio spot where he touts his "toughness" and somehow equates that with good leadership.

Leadership is not about being tough.  Leadership is the art of influencing others.  It's the ability to cross party lines to build political consensus.  It's the ability to engage in diplomacy and to work with foreign leaders to help advance American interests abroad.  It requires a balance of principle, experience, and wisdom which gives you the intuition to act rather than resorting to saber rattling or waiting for the latest polling data.

The true leader in this race is Joe Biden.  He has the experience, the practicality, and the wisdom to get things done.  He is the only man in the senate to get 74 senators to agree on a plan for bringing stability to Iraq.  This guy intuitively knows what needs to be done.  Unlike Hillary he doesn't have to wait for next week's polling data to tell him where he needs to stand on an issue.  Look, neither Hillary nor Obama can muster that kind of support among their colleagues in the Senate.  Likewise, Edwards, in his one-term in the Senate, couldn't garner that kind of bi-partisan support on such a controversial issue.  Biden has a bi-partisan approach to Iraq.  He has the respect of his colleagues in the Senate.  You may recall Senator Brownback (one of the most conservative Republicans in the Senate) actually campaigned with Biden earlier this year on the Iraq issue.  Most recently, Senator Hagel (R) from Nebraska spoke highly of Senator Biden and his plan for Iraq.  That's leadership and that's the way you bring this country together by build political consensus with both Democrats and Republicans.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see Hillary as the leader in this campaign.  I don't see her working with people across the aisle to forge political compromise to get things done.  She's a divider, not a uniter.  We need someone who's more than just tough.  We need a "leader" and that's Joe Biden.  
Maybe if the NPR crowd had more clout we wouldn't be in this mess.
JJ in NJ (Sent Tuesday, December 04, 2007 10:48 AM)
==================================================
I second that emotion and a truer fact has never been written.
It is possible that Senator Clinton is the best candidate.  However, even though many may like the policies that Senator Clinton proposes, they should also consider her record, just as Senator Clinton insists.
.
The last Clinton Administration, when faced with the fact that protection rackets where assaulting, torturing and murdering people with poison and radiation, chose to avoid its responsibilities to incarcerate the criminals and to protect the citizenry.
.
Instead, they made a deal with the criminal gang stalker protection rackets to leave them alone and to consequently abandon the citizenry.
.
Do we want a President who sells out the citizenry for votes?
.
Do we want a President who sends a "crime does pay" message to society?
.
Would you vote for a President who signed nonaggression deals with the KKKlan or the Nazi party? Gangs that torture with poison and radiation are much like the KKKlan and Nazi Party.
.
We do not need a sellout President. We need a principled leader President.
.
If you are one of the few who do not know what the above refers to, do a web search for “gang stalking” to see the tip of the dirtberg.  Please do it before you decide to reply to my post. Here let me make it easy for you: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22gang+stalking%22.
.



Oops!  Another "intelligence" (Can it really be called that these days) overstatement!  Not only no WMDs in Iraq, the Iranians caved to peaceful-but-determined diplomatic pressure and stoped their production of the bomb.  Another slam-dunk for the so-called "intelligence" community.  And when Bush and all the Repub candidates continue to rattle thier defence-contractor-driven sabors, they'll look exactly like the pack of morons we all knew they were.  The only thing that's changed is that now, REal President Cheney won't get his wish for a new war...hopefully.  If the NIE makes the Right look stupid and out of step, and prevents Cheney from launching an undeclared war, it's done a lot of good afterall.
Regardless of which candidate you support, there can be no denying the Senator Clinton's record of building consensus is a good one.
Nashville_fan (Sent Tuesday, December 04, 2007 11:41 AM)

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I totally agree!  She has done a wonderful job of working across the isle in the Senate. She is therefore well respected and gets more work done than the men.
Who else is going to jump in?

http://www.ronpaulblimp.com/

as the LATimes reported... the smart vegas money was on the British until Yorktown...

Go Ron Paul!!!
Hey Nashville fan, she lead the whitehouse furniture all the way to New York.  This woman is crazy, thinking she can get away with anything, who is supporting her, must be crackheads and druggies Bill pardoned, including his druggie brother. The democrat media is saying he s so popular, i dont know anyone who respects him.
How many people know Hillary wrote her thesis on a communsist guy, who she worshipped his ideas.  How many people know that this lady the dems say is so smart failed the bar exam.
Maybe if the NPR crowd had more clout we wouldn't be in this mess.
JJ in NJ (Sent Tuesday, December 04, 2007 10:48 AM)
==================================================
I second that emotion and a truer fact has never been written.
HPBoston

===========

If so, we'd all be speaking Russian.

Как быть ты сегодня друг?
"  Thank you for helping us make sure this election is a fair one, and for everything you do for Hillary. "

  Sincerely,

  Patti Solis Doyle
  Campaign Manager
  Hillary for President


Wow, if we can believe the post from the Hillary campaign, it means that there is Democrat-on-Democrat campaign violence going on.  

Or, it's a classic pre-emptive strike to deflect from the campaign's own negative attacks and try to portray Obama in the same light the Clintons are generally used to.

It appears this is Democrats cannibalizing other Democrats. Who woulda thought holier-than-thou Democrats, who never miss a chance to deride those dirty trash mongering Republicans, could sink so low?

Where in the world is John Edwards?  Is he still campaigning?  If so, which America is he in today?

To: jd

You stated, repeatedly:

"Being married to a president does not qualify one to be president."

I assume you reached that conclusion by learning:

"Being the child of a president does not qualify one to be president."

Something we already knew by November 2004, but went right ahead and re-elected Bush anyway.

Since the "who I'd rather have a beer with" strategy clearly doesn't worked, my fear about 2008 is that the U.S. electorate will choose whichever candidate they'd like to see on "Dancing with the Stars".  

H P Boston:

You left out a word - pretty pathetic attempt to misrepresent my post. Like candidate like supporter I guess. I'll repost the corrected version, because it bears repeating:

"Regardless of which candidate you support, there can be no denying the Senator Clinton's record of building consensus is a NOT good one. "
When I decided to run for president, I accepted that my opponents would dig through my record looking for something to attack.

I didn't realize they'd go all the way back to kindergarten.

I'll respond to each of the Clinton campaign's desperate attacks directly and honestly. But when I respond to each attack, I want to be able to say that I am not alone.

I want to be able to say that 10,000 people responded with me in the first 48 hours. And we're almost there.

Respond now with your donation of $25, and show our opponents that this kind of negativity will only make us stronger in our determination to bring about the change America needs:

https://donate.barackobama.com/costofnegativity

It's going to take all of us to change this game once and for all.

Thank you,

Barack

He's no different than any other politician, maybe even worse. Everything's an excuse to beg for money.
To: jd

You stated, repeatedly:

"Being married to a president does not qualify one to be president."

I assume you reached that conclusion by learning:

"Being the child of a president does not qualify one to be president."

Something we already knew by November 2004, but went right ahead and re-elected Bush anyway.

Since the "who I'd rather have a beer with" strategy clearly hasn't worked, my fear about 2008 is that the U.S. electorate will choose whichever candidate they'd like to see on "Dancing with the Stars".  
That the Bush Administration and the Neo-cons continues to lie should not come as a surprise to anyone. Project for a new American Century (PNAC) was founded by no other than Darth Vader (Cheney), Rumsfeld, Wolfolwitz and others  to shake up the middle east, control the flow of oil and help Israel. PERIOD! Fearmongering will continue until Americans wake-up and tell these war criminals that their profiteering days are over.
It's just like she said, running for the Presidency is not a qualification unto itself.

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY (Sent Tuesday, December 04, 2007 10:08 AM)


Hillary would be wise to remember that as well Merle.
The report on Iran confirms to me something I have suspected for some time. There are people within the government working to ensure Bush/Cheny do not get us into another war. These I believe are Military and Intel professionals working to prevent a disaster for our Military that is over stretched and stressed now. They are Patriots in the fullest sense of the word.
Please tell me how many Republican, Independent and Democrats leaning towards other candidates you've manage to convert to Hillary's camp.

Bee:

After last night, I can add another two people I have managed to convince that Hillary is the wrong candidate.  When they bring up experience, all i ask is them to explain what most important piece of legislation that Hillary has managed to pass since 2001.  And that she had the president sign off on.  And I tell them naming post offices is not considered important.  I also ask what they think of a woman who accepts money from Chinese dishwashers who do not have a credible address that they can be found at.  I talked about the L.A. Times story where they went looking for the folks and could not find the people that were located at the addresses.  You get her supporters really thinking about that one.  And finally, if they are just voting for her because she is a woman, I ask them "Is Hillary Clinton the example you want your daughter to follow?"  That really gets them thinking.
H P Boston:

You left out a word - pretty pathetic attempt to misrepresent my post. Like candidate like supporter I guess. I'll repost the corrected version, because it bears repeating:

"Regardless of which candidate you support, there can be no denying the Senator Clinton's record of building consensus is a NOT good one. "

Nashville_fan (Sent Tuesday, December 04, 2007 1:33 PM)


I've caught Van a few times with his version of the facts and I have corrected him as well....
NSMSNBC:

After re-reading Desperate and his little answer to me yesterday, one has to wonder if he really does care at all about the future of this country.  To not care about electing someone who is honest just means he wants more of what happened in the 90's with the Clinton's and their rag mag lifestyle.  It is sad.
THIS IS CLASSIC CLINTON !!!
Accuse someone else of doing what YOU'RE DOING !!
Watch for this form the Clinton campaign.....

ObamaRama:
'... Dear Friend,
  I wanted to let you know immediately about reports our campaign has received about possible dirty campaign tactics in Iowa and New Hampshire -- and ask for your help.

  In Iowa, we have heard reports that Hillary supporters are getting calls that tell them incorrect caucus locations. Supporters have also told us about push polls -- when they tell the pollster they support Hillary, they are given negative talking points about her and asked which attacks are the most effective.

  In both Iowa and New Hampshire, we have heard that Obama staffers are berating Hillary supporters on the phone with negative attacks against her....'

Expect these dirty tricks form the Clinton campaign
Expect 'dirt' from the Clinton campaign

Straight from Mark Penn's Repuclican playbook !!

Hillary Clinton, cold, calculating, dishonest, unethical
Gee, Ron, Obama's bloggers get rather tiresome too.  :)
H P Boston:

Is that isle Hillary works across Long Island, Manhattan Island, Ellis Island or what?
Hillary is a politician - just like so many others.  I don't support her for President but I don't set a different bar for her than I do other candidates.  To say that Barack Obama is somehow above politics is not realistic.  The exceedingly high number of "present" or missed votes on critical issues indicates a certain level of calculation on Senator Obama's part.

Deifying Obama and excoriating Clinton serves little purpose.  Neither is perfect and neither is Cheney.

BIDEN '08
Elizabeth Sullivan, San Diego, CA (Sent Tuesday, December 04, 2007 11:39 AM)


Amen to that, Elizabeth.  What irritates me is that so many Obama supporters refuse to acknowledge that he is not perfect.  There is always an excuse for everything...and usually a finger to be pointed at Hillary.  

I have said many times that I think Obama is a very capable, very charismatic individual.  I don't personally feel that he is ready for the presidency at this point in time, but that doesn't mean I think poorly of him.  I do, however, recognize that he is but a man, and a politician at that, which is unfortunately more than some people on here are willing to acknowledge.  He is NOT perfect.  
Maybe if the NPR crowd had more clout we wouldn't be in this mess.
JJ in NJ (Sent Tuesday, December 04, 2007 10:48 AM)
==================================================
I second that emotion and a truer fact has never been written.
HP Boston (Sent Tuesday, December 04, 2007 12:22 PM)

Maybe if some of our political leaders had better wisdom and judgement ...
Maybe if the NPR crowd had more clout we wouldn't be in this mess.
JJ in NJ (Sent Tuesday, December 04, 2007 10:48 AM)
==================================================
I second that emotion and a truer fact has never been written.
HP Boston (Sent Tuesday, December 04, 2007 12:22 PM)

Sounds like the Clinton supporters are already downplaying the up-and-coming debate.  Way to have confidence in the abilities of your candidate, Ha!  NPR’s Robert Siegel, Michele Norris and Steve Inskeep better be ready for the rounds of attacks on their moderating skills if things should go bad for Clinton and praise if she does good.

But I gotta tune in, a different format should be fun and interesting.  He-he.

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/
This will link to the debate.
jerry/corpus christi texas

And finally, if they are just voting for her because she is a woman, I ask them "Is Hillary Clinton the example you want your daughter to follow?"  That really gets them thinking.


Well, yeah, the smart ones will get to thinking.

Most of the liberal kool-aid drinkers though just stare at you and say "I vote Hillary!"
Elizabeth Sullivan, San Diego, CA: '..."Hillary Clinton, cold, calculating, dishonest, unethical, divisive"

Hillary is a politician - just like so many others.

Sorry, she's a lot more crooked than most
Beginning with swindling investors at Whitewater
Bill and Hillary are two of the most crooked characters in the Democratic party.
And we've had a lot of crooked characters.

I believe she's a corporate tool, ruthless, vengeful and unethical......
Sorry, this isn't a news flash !!
Yiou can find that anywhere....

Deifying Obama and excoriating Clinton serves little purpose.  

I don't dieify Obama.
But, I think Obama and Edwards are reformers
I'd love to see a reformer as our nominee

'...Neither is perfect and neither is Cheney....'

You don;t need to be Cheney to lead us into war
Hillary could drag Democrats along with her better than Cheney

'...BIDEN '08...'

He's not bad, but I prefer Obama or Edwards

PS
At the Brown and Black Forum it came out that Edwards had voted for the Bankruptcy bill.
I was surprised
As you say nobody's perfect

H P knew what she was doing. I thought it was great. At least her version was correct.
Obama can't counterpunch because Hillary was right on the money.
He doesn't have the experience, nor the credentials to be President.
It's just like she said, running for the Presidency is not a qualification unto itself.
J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY (Sent Tuesday, December 04, 2007 10:08 AM)

----------

No. He isn't punching back because he doesn't want to. He doesn't have to. Sitting back and letting Hillary go all "how cute, he wanted to be President when he was 4" shows her to be nothing more than a petulent child that is pissed off that she isn't winning in a landslide as though the nomination and Presidency are her birthright.

Besides, did you read the stories posted from the NYT and the Boston Globe? The two articles did enough bashing on Hillary and what she does to democrats nationally well enough he doesn't HAVE to say another word. How's the saying go: The pen is mightier than the sword?
 JOE.........joe........joE..........Joe.........jOe......jOe...........JoE.Biden,Biden,Biden,etc.Go joe,vote joe.Nuff said!
 End the insanity!!!!National Primary,on Jan.2.Do not play the hide and seek political game.Have ONE primary that does NOT exclude more than 95% of America from voting for their choice.This system is NOT Democratic,but put in place only to LOOK like Freedom.Defend your Country,and demand fair and open elections!!!Do you really want your candidates chosen ib two very sparsely populated states?Insane!!!!
That the Bush Administration and the Neo-cons continues to lie should not come as a surprise to anyone. Project for a new American Century (PNAC) was founded by no other than Darth Vader (Cheney), Rumsfeld, Wolfolwitz and others  to shake up the middle east, control the flow of oil and help Israel. PERIOD! Fearmongering will continue until Americans wake-up and tell these war criminals that their profiteering days are over.
juan,ft lauderdale,fl (Sent Tuesday, December 04, 2007 1:48 PM
____________________________________________________
Great post juan, I want these basters locked away in a tiny cell together. Seems to me that would be beyond torture but what the hell they deserve it.
Hey I will wave to you Saturday as I sail from your beautiful "Venice of America" on one of the DAM ships!
Sam: Check your facts.  McCain was not there to vote on the Lieberman/Kyl resolution either.  It didn't matter, in any case, as Obama, who came out against the resolution before it was brought up for a vote (a vote that was called with less than an hour's notice by a Senate majority leader who's son works as the Hillary Nevada campaign manager) would have cancelled out McCain's vote.

J Merle Stanley, you are truly delusional.  You must have your reasons for your support of Hillary, but when she accuses Barack of planning to run for president as soon as he was elected to the Senate, isn't that a bit of psychological projection?  Or did she start planning her run during the Clinton administration?  One has to laugh when she accuses Obama of considering a run for the presidency as his only qualification for being president.  Does she really think that the American people will buy all of her bullsh*t.  She's into the "it's not me it's you" type of fighting and it is really, so without substance.  It's just pathetic to watch her make these pronouncements.  If she were to win the Democratic nomination, it would be an embarrassment for the Democrats and a real missed opportunity for a fresh start.
Obama '08
jerry.....you need to worry about your own boy, "Rappin' Rudy 'G' The Gigolo of The G.O.P."
He's in a lot of trouble, and there's more brewing from what I understand.
I've caught Van a few times with his version of the facts and I have corrected him as well....

jerry/corpus christi texas (Sent Tuesday, December 04, 2007 1:58 PM)

ROTFLMAO!!! In your pointy-headed dreams maybe, but NEVER here. We can add liar to your sad resume now.


Van
Carrie and Elizabeth--I agree that Obama's not perfect, and there are several instances I have disagreed with him.  But I do think he's pretty good.  I think that he gets it right on the issues quite often, and I do think that shows wisdom.

Of course he's a politician.  Remember, people don't win elections, politicians win elections.  On the other hand, I feel that Obama, more than his competitors for the nomination, does bring a new style of politics to the American people.  He says things frankly to the American people that other politicians never thought they could (and it often gets billed as inexperience).  And he looks to the future and flatly, honestly tells the American people, this is what needs to be done.  And that is why her represents change, true change.
We all know Obama is not perfect and the notion that he is not ready to be a president is bogus and outrageous. What standard do you use for someone to be President? Every American have the right to run for President and Obama is included.

At least Obama is better than Hillary in all ways. If i have a son today, i won't mind my son emulating Obama; however, I’ll never which my daughter to be like Hillary. She can emulate other women that are achievers, women like Oprah and so on.  

Hillary is the most power drunk person I have ever seen.
H P Boston:

Is that isle Hillary works across Long Island, Manhattan Island, Ellis Island or what?

________

Gilligans.
[I want these basters locked away in a tiny cell together. Seems to me that would be beyond torture but what the hell they deserve it.]


Why in God names would we lock up turkey basters?
Why in God names would we lock up turkey basters?
Elton Branch (Sent Tuesday, December 04, 2007 6:43 PM
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It is bastards, just wanted a safe version on the spelling.  Hey but turkeys is good, yup very good also.
Thanks
Elton
H P Boston:

Is that isle Hillary works across Long Island, Manhattan Island, Ellis Island or what?

________

Gilligans.
M. Lyons, St. Louis (Sent Tuesday, December 04, 2007 6:40 PM
[-----------------------
All of the above! Any island you can name she can get the job done in the best partisan manner.


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