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Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



More on the Romney religion speech

Posted: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 11:32 AM by Domenico Montanaro

From NBC/NJ’s Erin McPike
MANCHESTER -- A collective sigh of relief emanated through the Romney campaign on the ground in New Hampshire yesterday now that the cat’s out of the bag.

Staffers at all levels buzzed about Thursday’s religion speech at several events, making clear they too have been wondering, “Will he or won’t he,” and have been waiting anxiously for a while. Lots of “this is its” and “now’s the times” were thrown around rather excitedly yesterday.

Romney, himself, acknowledged impatience from the press when he took the mic at press conference after the day’s first public event, which was centered on the economy. He joked at the beginning, “Let’s keep the questions on the economy to a minimum, because I know there are a couple of folks who want to ask about religion.”

There was some natural frustration from inside the camp that the press was fixated on the speech rather than the economy, despite that he moved the ball forward ever so slightly on his economic agenda. (He'll be talking economics again, however, on a jam-packed day in New Hampshire today.) Apart from two other questions -- one that dealt with the new intelligence report out that morning -- the much larger-than-usual scrum stuck to the speech and his Mormonism. But two speech and religion questions down, one person asked why his preceding economic-focused speech didn’t address global warming, causing more than a few pairs of eyes to dart around the room, confused.

The elephant in the room, even in the Granite State, was none other than Huckabee. “I think a person who is running for president, or who is going to be president, is someone who wants particularly in times of great need to call on the prayers of all the people in America and not define him or herself based upon a particular brand of faith,” Romney said. In a recent Huckabee ad, “Christian Leader” flashes boldly across the screen. Romney, however, prefaced some of that with, “I’m certainly not a spokesman for my faith; don’t anticipate ever doing that.”

And so those who’ve labeled his long-awaited address, “The Mormon Speech,” may well be wrong. He continued to drive the point that he intends to talk about the role of religion in society and its importance to the American culture, a thread not entirely unlike that which Obama employed in his star-spangled religion-in-politics speech before the Call to Renewal Sojourners conference in late June 2006.

But despite all of the JFK comparisons flitting around, Romney explained, “I’m not going to be giving a JFK speech. He gave the definitive speech, if you will, on discrimination relating to a political campaign, and what he said makes sense to me.”

Romney later cited a master’s thesis about the 20 reasons his father was successful in the 1968 race and pointed out that not one of those was his faith. Jumping forward four decades, he said, “I don’t know that even at this stage, my faith is a significant factor in my race. I just don’t think in the final analysis it will be the deciding factor.”

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The Mormons believe that the Bible is incomplete, that the book of Mormon competes it. Choke on that religious conservatives.
We need Romney if we want a social conservative in the White House.  For all the talk about Huckabee in Iowa, it will come down to Guilliani and Romney in the long stretch.  They're the only ones with the resources and execution machinery against Clinton.  I hope evangelist hold-outs can wake up and push aside their theological prejudices and choose a candidate based on their policies and ability to succeed in the final contest.  Otherwise, a vote for Huckabee is a vote for Guilliani.
Romney is right on immigration and right on the economy.  Religion has nothing to do with it.  We are voting for a President not the leader of our church.  Stick to the candidates vision for our country.  
People haven't read the JFK speech but they will pay attention to his speech. It's okay to rehash some. He can't simply ignore people's issues with his faith, though he doesn't need to go any further than just recognizing them. Something as simple as, "I know we differ on some points of doctrine..." or "I understand how some beliefs can seem unusual to those of other faiths..." or "I sympathize with your desire to know more about my faith and encourage you to look at..." He needs to say that he is not looking to be the Mormon candidate, but the Republican candidate. He has a great opportunity to hit this head on, briefly, and quickly shift the campaign to the issues as JFK did. Considering he's better on the issues than he's given credit for, this could help him. And how presidential would it be for him to nail this much-anticipated speech? It will be awesome.
This is to you who vote for these guys because they say they are "good christians".  Is it beyond your obviously very limited intelligence to consider that perhaps they are lying to you to gain your vote?  Anyone can read a few passages out of the bible and say what you want to hear!  I am not a christian, but I could convince anyone who doesn't already know me that I am. Please look at the half million dead Iraqis, many millions of Iraqi refugees, the nearly four thousand dead American soldiers, the lies about WMD, the public outing of a CIA operative.  These are the acts of a man of God? All from this guy currently in the white house that you idiots thought was the second coming.  If you base your vote on a religious standard of some sort you are living in a fantasy world and you share blame for all the above death and destruction. You should be ashamed, you should go and pray to be forgiven for the presidency of George W. Bush.
AMEN, Doug down there in San Diego
This country was founded on the idea of religious freedom, so of course it is going to play a role in our politics. Our forefathers believed in allowing man to worship how they may and not to discriminate against anyone. So people who won't vote for Romney "because he is a mormon" are showing their prejudices. And these people are mainly "conservative Christians" from the South. Who are also responsible for showing their bigotry at events such as the John Scopes trial and it is even more evident in the behavior of these "good Christian people" towards blacks since the first slaves came over from Africa til even today. Those are the type of people who won't vote for Romney just because he is a "mormon".
It's funny that Romney's religion is the only one that's  being talked about, when most other churches, especially the Catholic and Baptist, have been explicitly active in politics. The church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints has stayed out of politics entirely, not because of expediency or convenience, but because of published doctrine.  I'm still not sanguine about Romney, but the leadership of the church will not allow him to use the church for power or influence.  His will NOT become a Mormon presidency.
AH! Andrew Murray coming through with the anti-South bigotry, which is apparently allowed.
Perhaps people here are missing the point. Yes this country was founded on freedom of religion, All religions. Andrew one must remember that these same Mormons you defend are also ones that thought that blacks were that color because they had fallen out of grace with God. That they should be punished for all time, and it wasn't untill 1978 before they were allowed to become leaders in that same church. We also must remember that should Romney become Presedent 10% of his pay as president would go directly into the coffers of the Mormon church. Thereby making a already wealthy church desireing to become the leaders of this country even more wealthy. Thier plan for some time has been to take over the presidency to control the religious freedoms of this country. Almost like inviting the Pope and the Catholic church to take over. Yes I am a Republican, but I would deffect to another camp before casting my lot in with him. Ralph Nader would be better than Romney, at least he hasn't pulled religion into the game and wants to make the enviroment better for our children.
"So people who won't vote for Romney "because he is a mormon" are showing their prejudices."


And so are those who vote for him because he's a "Christian."
I am so sick of these groups founded by certain individuals calling themselves Christian.  Sorry, but Jesus Christ founded Christianity, not Joseph Smith or John Wesley or anyone else.  The only true Christians are those that follow the very same traditions that Christ himself followed.  The bible should not be interpreted "your own way".  The bible should be interpreted exactly like Christ's apostles interpreted it and should be practiced with the same holy traditions that Christ practiced.  Not that Joseph Smith or John Doe decided is the way to practice a religion.  To me neither Mormons nor Baptists are christians.  Orthodox Christians are true christians.  The religion has not changed since Christ founded it and no one has interpreted it to their liking- it is exactly today the way it was when Christ founded it and practiced it.
LORD, Lunatic, or Liar?

Agree or disagree with the claims...but you cannot refute that the claims were made. This is the dividing line between Christianity the others. Jesus did not reject WORSHIP from his disciples. There was nothing to misunderstand when Jesus made a claim that he was equal with God the Father. Gospel of John 10:30. The Pharisees started to pick up rocks because this was considered blasphemy. When people started to worship Paul and Barnabas after they had performed a miracle they said for them not to do this..because they were just men. Jesus NEVER said this. He accepted worship. The question is do Mormons WORSHIP Jesus as Lord or do they think him and Joseph Smith are equal. Jesus does not leave people with alot of options....you can have only one of 3 conclusions about Him as CS Lewis stated...Either He is LORD, Liar, or Lunatic...His claims leave you with NO other options. If Mormons believe he is LORD to be worshipped as such then Fine...they ARE Christians...otherwise they put Joseph smith on the same level and this is unacceptable to Historic Christianity.

For an excellent Documentary go to "DNA & the Book of Mormon"you tube -these are Mormon scientist grappling with the lack of archelogical, linguistic, historical evidence for any of the events that took place in the Book of Mormon. Also along the same lines: "The Bible and the Book of Mormon" compares the archelogical, linguistic, historical references in each one and how they match up with the evidence.

Either way neither religion will threaten to kill you if you named your Teddy Bear Jesus or Joseph Smith.

The climate as far as how religion and politics are/aren't related has changed markedly since 1960.  If you read Kennedy's speech, he could count on his audience approving of the separation of church and state (for the sakes of both the state and religion).  Particularly with Romney's narrower audience (GOP primary voters), that's not a fair assumption to make.  In fact, there's often a skepticism and even hostility to it.  For that reason alone, I think Romney's speech will have to be much more subdued and/or much more rhetorically careful than Kennedy's was.  
Wess, exactly.
I don't think it'll help Mitt.  The people he needs to convinced aren't interested in the freedom to practice religion as you see fit.  They're interested in the freedom to impose their own religious values on everyone else.
Attention anti-Christian posters:

Expect no apology for the inescapable reality that since there is good and bad in every society, there will inevitably be some bad people who call themselves Christians.  No one is to blame for that but the individual.  How many members of Dennis Rader's congregation joined him on trial after he was arrested?  The exact same number of members in his congregation who his accomplices, zero.  Attempt to fault any group or society for the faults of a traitor in their midst, and you will automatically forfeit your opinion as worthless, misinformed, ignorant, or bigoted.

Judge Mitt Romney by his actions, by his behavior, by his accomplishments, but not by your superstitions and hearsay.  Likewise, judge his religion and Christianity in general (of which the Church of Jesus Christ is a part) by the fruits that they produce.  And before you start with the tired old rhetoric about the sins that have been committed by people who called themselves Christians over the last two thousand years, be sure to establish your credibility first by producing documentation that proves you have never done anything wrong in your whole life.  When you've proven yourself perfect and sinless, then you will have the right to take up my time with complaints about the sins of people you don't know.

To all you bohemian God haters who think that the worst thing in the world is a society of people who dare to agree with each other about God instead of knee-jerk rebellion against every little thing that comes down the pike and the division and strife that it causes, you can continue to deride people who know things you've never bothered to sincerely investigate, or you can acknowledge your ignorance and educate yourselves.  Either way, the rest of us are going to keep voting the way we've been voting, and your scorn will only reinforce our knowledge that we must be doing something right if you're unhappy with it.
Bruce, I don't think that anti-South bigotry should be "allowed" anymore than anti-Mormon bigotry.  However, in Andrew's comment, there is some truth.  Romney's biggest hurdle is the white evangelicals (at least according to most polls and articles).  They are a huge part of the evangelical South, and where many of the mega-churches (which are mostly evangelical) are based.

The trial and slavery Andrew mentioned also took place in the south.  Whether or not these events can be attributed to the same people who "won't vote for a Mormon" is probably a matter of opinion and iterpretation, but you have to admit there is at least some accuracy to his assumption/connection... at least the historical facts part.

I don't necessarily agree with him, but I do see his point...
Tim- you make an excellent point.  For the record, Mormons do not consider Joseph Smith to be anywhere close to the same level as Jesus Christ.  Jesus is our LORD.  Joseph was a prophet and a man- like Moses, not the Savior or anything like him.  Jesus is perfect, Joseph is not.  That's what the LDS church teaches.

Lee- I agree.  Voting for a political figure because of his/her religious beliefs or lack there of is short-sited.  There is so much more to a candidate to consider.

Mike- Romney has said that he is going to turn down the presidential salary- he doesn't need it.  Do you know that a good portion of the tithing the LDS church receives is used to help the poor and needy throughout the world?  It's called the Humanitarian fund.  The LDS church is often some of the first relief workers (besides the Red Cross) to show up at disaster zones, like after Hurricanes and Fires, for example.  It's true that tithes are also used for building church houses and temples, but the LDS church takes no handouts from the government and it is audited by a non-LDS organization every year.  Also, the LDS church has a lay-ministry- meaning the local leaders are not paid- they are strictly volunteer.

Finally, it is true that blacks did not have leadership roles in the LDS church until the seventies. However, the LDS church has ALWAYS been against slavery and some of its earliest members were blacks.  How many southern churches can say that?  If you're going to attack our religion based on history, at least be fair and have all the facts.
AH! Andrew Murray coming through with the anti-South bigotry, which is apparently allowed.
Bruce, NV

--- Bruce, it IS called the SOUTHERN Baptist Convention. The "Bible Belt" does run a little southward. Generalities are in general unfair but often do reflect the leanings.
"Expect no apology for the inescapable reality that since there is good and bad in every society, there will inevitably be some bad people who call themselves Christians.  To all you bohemian God haters who think that the worst thing in the world is a society of people who dare to agree with each other about God instead of knee-jerk rebellion against every little thing that comes down the pike and the division and strife that it causes, you can continue to deride people who know things you've never bothered to sincerely investigate, or you can acknowledge your ignorance and educate yourselves."
---Lance Mannions

Thank you Lance for proving your point about bad Christians.
Kira, slavery ended 150 years ago.

The monkey trial was 70 years ago.

Do you find it relevent now to smear a broad population group over events that predate their lives by generations?
once again, by your very arguements, you show contempt for the philosophies that you express. of course an evangelical has every right to not vote for someone they consider to be a pretender. just as apparently people that are somehow still republicans even after the deaths of 4000 American boys and girls and 600,000 iraqies, and the destruction of the middle class, and the belief that clinton is indeed satan, have every right to still be republicans(though I do not understand how). the point friends is that regardless of self righteous anger, the facts remain - by calling people with diffrent views bigots or worse you are trying to supress their right to vote.

It was interesting to see last night that a right wing talking head glen beck had on a country music star trace atkins. he said that the constitution gives people freedom to say what they will, but it also gives him the right to track them down and beat the hell out of them.... of course this really makes a mockery of what the founding fathers meant but who really needs the truth.
Kira, you are right, but mitt concerns me in that he doesn't seem to have a strong testimony I would love to be at his ward on fast sunday.  I think if he wants to win this election follow this advice "do what is right and let the consequences follow"  Do I make any sense?
Lance,
it is not Bohemian godhaters that will not vote for Mitt, I don't see athiests, taoists, buddists, hindus or even pagans clamoring for his head, it is some holier than thou christians who will not vote for him. There are no Godhaters, there are believers and non-believers. Your post shows anger towards people who are not your enemy, they are just people stating a point, one christian sect would keep another christian sect out of the White house. Why would they do this? because they believe that they are TRUEBELIEVERS and everyone else is not. Your attack post shows that you may be closer to those people that you think!
Bruce, like I said, I don't necessarily agree with him, but i see his point.  Of course I don't think people should be responsible for what was done by their ancestors several generations before... polygamy in the LDS church also ended over 100 years ago, but people are still holding it against us.  It's not fair anyway you look at it.  All I was saying is that there is still bigotry everywhere (sadly), and that it has a tendency to be stronger towards certain groups in some areas more than in others (for example, there are more reported KKK issues in the south still than in other parts of the nation).  

I don't like it, but I also don't deny it.

Don, Mitt hasn't shared his testimony is a political race because it isn't relevant or appropriate.  He can discuss the importance of faith in America in general without going into the details of his feeling on specific doctrines, etc.  Stump speeches are to help people see his ability to lead, they are not testimony meetings. Do you think the strength of his testimony will affect his ability to be a good president? I think if he started testifying it would make many people uncomfortable.  He is trying to keep an appropriate separation of church and state.  If he started testifying to groups of LDS people, even more voters would (erroneously) think that the church promotes him as "it's" candidate.  He has even said that his speech tomorrow will be about faith in America in general- he is not, nor does he want to be a spokesperson for the church.


I found this snip tucked away at the bottom of an article this morning, almost missed it.

NBC's Chris Donovan reminds folks of a lesser-quoted speech JFK made in 1960 in Salt Lake City… It might be of note that just 11 days after Senator John Kennedy gave his religion speech in Houston in September 1960, he went to Salt Lake City to give a speech at the Mormon Tabernacle in which he had a few nice things to say about Mormons. "Tonight I speak for all Americans in expressing our gratitude to the Mormon people -- for their pioneer spirit, their devotion to culture and learning, their example of industry and self-reliance. But I am particularly in their debt tonight for their successful battle to make religious liberty a living reality -- for having proven to the world that different faiths of different views could flourish harmoniously in our midst -- and for having proven to the Nation in this century that a public servant devout in his chosen faith was still capable of undiminished allegiance to our Constitution and national interest."

The public servant Kennedy referenced was Senator Reed Smoot, an apostle in the Mormon church, who had to fight a four-year challenge to the right to his Senate seat over questions of whether or not he would be loyal to his religion versus his country. He was re-elected four times. Kennedy explained: "The story of Reed Smoot symbolizes the long struggle of the Mormon people for religious liberty. They suffered persecution and exile, at the hands of Americans whose own ancestors, ironically enough, had fled here to escape the curse of intolerance. But they never faltered in their devotion to their principle of religious liberty -- not for themselves alone, but for all mankind."

-MSNBC
Posted: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 9:06 AM by Domenico Montanaro
Filed Under: Republicans, 2008
I do not not know why Mormon's can't be happy with just calling themselves what they are - Mormons. They could not be further from the Christian faith if they tried. Their Jesus is simply NOT the Christian Jesus.

The fact a Mormon believes he can one day become God is an afront to Christian Doctrine.

Basics of Mormonism

Are Mormons Christians as they claim? We can discover if they are by seeing if they uphold the Christian distinctives that are the essential teachings in the bible? On almost all points from the beginning of God and man in the Garden of eden to the after life they have a different view than the Holy Scriptures. They believe man is a spirit creature finding his origin in heaven before coming to earth. That Christ is also in the same class as man as well as the spirit brother of Lucifer, therefore we are all spirit brothers. They teach that we incarnate on earth to be offered a way to exaltation where we can become a God on our own planet. We then can have many wives who will birth numerous spirit children and repeat the process as all other Gods did before us.

Mormonism teaches God was first a mortal man He lived on a planet like our own and became exalted becoming a God. That God has a body just as we do. Christ is not the one God, but just one of the many exalted children of Elohim. The Trinity is made up of three main Gods with many more as well.

They also teach that there are as many Gods as there are stars and that we can become a God by obedience to the Mormon gospel. Salvation is by baptism as the gate, and then the numerous commands which includes tithing. If one does not repent in this life they have another chance in the afterlife as they are visited by spirit missionaries who will teach them the gospel. But first they are baptized by proxy (another takes their place) in the temple to have them prepared to hear it.

Jesus was conceived as Mary was visited by God the father who had sex with her and had the offspring Jesus. Jesus then was married at Cana and had many wives as a polygamist. Jesus also had many children and they believe Joseph Smith their founder is a descendant of Jesus.

The have 12 apostles in their church structure and the president of the Church is a living prophet that can speak new Scripture.So the bible continues to be made.

Mormons believe they are the only true and restored Church on earth, although lately they have opted for a softer view, it is for the purpose of making inroads into Christian Church to draw people out.

They do not believe the bible was translated correctly and so the book of Mormon was necessary to explain and teach the many things missing and corrupted. Without this translation by Joseph Smith their prophet they believe the gospel would have been completely lost.

I have nothing against Mormons and think they should to be able to practice their belief system freely. I do object to them calling it something it is not and never can be - Christian.
Mike Spease, I think that some of your information is skewed there. So did JFK not give money to the Catholic Church or any of our other presidents give money to their faiths, they probably did, Its a commandment right there in the bible. Try reading it sometime
And now let me show you why Romney flat out lied in his speech. He made the following statement...
"Let me assure you that no authorities of my church, or of any other church for that matter, will ever exert influence on presidential decisions"

Yet, his giving this speech was EXACTLY because authorities from other churches were exerting influence on him.

The man can't be trusted.
After listening to Romney's speech I am absolutely sure he will NOT be elected. I believe he had a chance to sway some Christians but lost it by totally avoiding what Mormonism teaches. At least that would have been honest and probably enough to save what little chance he had. But he avoided church teachings like the plague and in the final analasys I guess he had too. It is truly bizarre!

If he continues claiming to be a Christian I suspect he will ultimately be asked why the Mormon church owned Marriott was one of the first chains to make pornography available on room TV.

I think today turned his run into a very slow walk.

As a Catholic Christian I believe that the true church of christ should be as the early christians said it should be: One ( united), Catholic                  ( universal) and apostolic ( going back to the time of the apostles). Evangelical Christians fall outside this definition and I believe that they are outside of the true church. Despite this, they share many of the same values as I do and I would rather vote for a person in a false church who shares the same values than a person who is Catholic but does not believe in the same values ..ie Guiliani. The Catholic church has long said that the most important issue is the sanctity of human life, not a person's religion. The Bishop of Denver gladly received an award from local Mormans for defending shared values and this is how all Catholics should act.


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