Let's face it, McCain's support is largely from Independents, who have largely left him over the war issue (though still respect him greatly).  And that is why his positions on the war hurt him, more than immigration and the environmentalism.  (He was hurt on two fronts: the Independents and the partisan Republicans).  It is unfortunate that conservatives don't trust him more, because they do trust him to run the war and protect the nation--of which he is way better qualified and more wise than Giuliani.  He has a more conservative record than the two frontrunners and probably even Huckabee.  To bad the Conservative Wing of the GOP is all-too eager to hate the environment and to punish any movement at reconciling immigration.

Sadly, the only way for McCain to win is for Obama to fall.  On the other hand, a rising McCain might help a struggling Hillary.  What a pickle!

Wow, a candidate who actually encourages discussion, shocking!

McCain is awesome, it's too bad he doesn't get more coverage in the press. I'm still giving him strong consideration in the primaries though.

Add this article to the media sucking up to John McCain watcg.

A complete list of things caused by global warming

Agricultural land increase, Africa devastated, African aid threatened, Africa hit hardest, air pressure changes, Alaska reshaped, allergies increase, Alps melting, Amazon a desert, American dream end,  amphibians breeding earlier (or not),  ancient forests dramatically changed, animals head for the hills, Antarctic grass flourishes, anxiety,  algal blooms, archaeological sites threatened, Arctic bogs melt, Arctic in bloom, Arctic lakes disappear, asthma, Atlantic less salty, Atlantic more salty, atmospheric defiance,  atmospheric circulation modified, attack of the killer jellyfish, avalanches reduced, avalanches increased,  bananas destroyed, bananas grow, beetle infestation, bet for $10,000,  better beer, big melt faster, billion dollar research projects, billions of deaths, bird distributions change, bird visitors drop, birds return early, blackbirds stop singing, blizzards, blue mussels return, bluetongue, boredom, bridge collapse (Minneapolis), Britain Siberian, British gardens change, brothels struggle, bubonic plague, budget increases, Buddhist temple threatened,  building collapse, building season extension, bushfires, business opportunities, business risks,  butterflies move north,  cancer deaths in England, cardiac arrest,  caterpillar biomass shift, challenges and opportunities, childhood insomnia, Cholera, circumcision in decline, cirrus disappearance, civil unrest, cloud increase, cloud stripping,   cockroach migration, cod go south, cold climate creatures survive, cold spells (Australia), computer models, conferences, coral bleaching, coral reefs dying, coral reefs grow, coral reefs shrink ,  cold spells, cost of trillions, cougar attacks, cremation to end, crime increase, crocodile sex, crumbling roads, buildings and sewage systems, cyclones (Australia), damages equivalent to $200 billion,  Darfur, Dartford Warbler plague,  death rate increase (US), Dengue hemorrhagic fever, dermatitis, desert advance, desert life threatened, desert retreat,  destruction of the environment, diarrhoea, disappearance of coastal cities,  diseases move north, Dolomites collapse, drought, drowning people,  ducks and geese decline, dust bowl in the corn belt, early marriages, early spring, earlier pollen season,  Earth biodiversity crisis, Earth dying, Earth even hotter, Earth light dimming, Earth lopsided, Earth melting, Earth morbid fever, Earth on fast track, Earth past point of no return, Earth slowing down, Earth spinning out of control, Earth spins faster, Earth to explode, earth upside down,  Earth wobbling, earthquakes, El Niño intensification, erosion, emerging infections, encephalitis, equality threatened, Europe simultaneously baking and freezing,   evolution accelerating, expansion of university climate groups, extinctions (human, civilisation,  logic, Inuit, smallest butterfly, cod, ladybirds, bats, pandas, pikas, polar bears, pigmy possums, gorillas, koalas,  walrus, whales, frogs, toads, turtles, orang-utan,  elephants, tigers, plants, salmon, trout,  wild flowers, woodlice, penguins, a million species, half of all animal and plant species,  not polar bears, barrier reef, leaches), experts muzzled, extreme changes to California, fading fall foliage, famine, farmers go under, fashion disaster, fever,figurehead sacked, fir cone bonanza, fish catches drop,  fish catches rise, fish stocks at risk, fish stocks decline, five million illnesses, flesh eating disease, flood patterns change, floods,  floods of beaches and cities, Florida economic decline, food poisoning, food prices rise, food security threat (SA),  footpath erosion, forest decline, forest expansion, frostbite, frosts, fungi fruitful, fungi invasion, games change, Garden of Eden wilts, genetic diversity decline, gene pools slashed, gingerbread houses collapse, glacial earthquakes, glacial retreat,  glacial growth, glacier wrapped, global cooling, global dimming, glowing clouds, god melts, golf Masters wrecked, Gore omnipresence, grandstanding, grasslands wetter, Great Barrier Reef 95% dead, Great Lakes drop,  greening of the North,  Grey whales lose weight, Gulf Stream failure, habitat loss, Hantavirus pulmonary syndrome,   harvest increase, harvest shrinkage, hay fever epidemic, hazardous waste sites breached, health of children harmed, heart disease, heart attacks and strokes (Australia), heat waves,  hibernation ends too soon, hibernation ends too late, homeless 50 million, hornets, high court debates, human development faces unprecedented reversal, human fertility reduced, human health improvement, human health risk, hurricanes, hurricane reduction, hydropower problems, hyperthermia deaths, ice sheet growth, ice sheet shrinkage, illness and death, inclement weather, infrastructure failure (Canada), Inuit displacement, Inuit poisoned, Inuit suing, industry threatened, infectious diseases,  inflation in China, insurance premium rises, invasion of cats,  invasion of herons, invasion of midges,  island disappears, islands sinking, itchier poison ivy, jellyfish explosion, Kew Gardens taxed, kitten boom, krill decline, lake and stream productivity decline, lake shrinking and growing, landslides, landslides of ice at 140 mph, lawsuits increase, lawsuit successful,  lawyers' income increased (surprise surprise!), lightning related insurance claims, little response in the atmosphere, lush growth in rain forests, Lyme disease,  Malaria, malnutrition,  mammoth dung melt, Maple syrup shortage, marine diseases, marine food chain decimated, marine dead zone, Meaching (end of the world), megacryometeors, Melanoma, methane emissions from plants, methane burps, melting permafrost, Middle Kingdom convulses, migration, migration difficult (birds), microbes to decompose soil carbon more rapidly, monkeys on the move, Mont Blanc grows, monuments imperiled, more bad air days,   more research needed, mountain (Everest) shrinking,  mountains break up, mountains taller, mortality lower, mudslides,  National security implications, new islands, next ice age, Nile delta damaged, no effect in India, Northwest Passage opened, nuclear plants bloom,  oaks move north, ocean acidification, ocean waves speed up, opera house to be destroyed, outdoor hockey threatened,  oyster diseases, ozone loss, ozone repair slowed, ozone rise, Pacific dead zone, personal carbon rationing, pest outbreaks, pests increase, phenology shifts,  plankton blooms, plankton destabilised, plankton loss, plant viruses, plants march north,  polar bears aggressive, polar bears cannibalistic,  polar bears drowning, polar bears starve,  polar tours scrapped, porpoise astray, profits collapse, psychosocial disturbances, puffin decline,  railroad tracks deformed, rainfall increase, rainfall reduction, rape wave, refugees, reindeer larger, release of ancient frozen viruses, resorts disappear, rice threatened, rice yields crash,  riches, rift on Capitol Hill, rioting and nuclear war,  rivers dry up, river flow impacted, rivers raised, roads wear out, rockfalls, rocky peaks crack apart, roof of the world a desert, Ross river disease,  ruins ruined, salinity reduction, salinity increase,  Salmonella, salmon stronger, satellites accelerate, school closures, sea level rise, sea level rise faster, seals mating more, sewer bills rise, sex change, sharks booming, sharks moving north, sheep shrink, shop closures, shrinking ponds, shrinking shrine, ski resorts threatened, slow death, smaller brains, smog, snowfall increase, snowfall heavy, snowfall reduction,  societal collapse, songbirds change eating habits, sour grapes, space problem, spiders invade Scotland, squid population explosion, squirrels reproduce earlier, spectacular orchids, stormwater drains stressed, street crime to increase,  suicide, taxes, tectonic plate movement, teenage drinking, terrorism, threat to peace, ticks move northward (Sweden), tides rise, tourism increase, trade barriers, trade winds weakened, tree beetle attacks, tree foliage increase (UK), tree growth slowed, trees could return to Antarctic, trees in trouble, trees less colourful,  trees more colourful, trees lush, tropics expansion, tropopause raised, tsunamis, turtles crash, turtles lay earlier, UK Katrina, Vampire moths, Venice flooded, volcanic eruptions, walrus displaced, walrus pups orphaned, war, wars over water, wars threaten billions, water bills double, water supply unreliability, water scarcity (20% of increase), water stress, weather out of its mind, weather patterns awry, weeds, Western aid cancelled out,  West Nile fever, whales move north, wheat yields crushed in Australia, white Christmas dream ends, wildfires, wind shift, wind reduced,  wine - harm to Australian industry, wine industry damage (California),  wine industry disaster (US),  wine - more English, wine -German boon, wine - no more French ,  winters in Britain colder, wolves eat more moose, wolves eat less, workers laid off, World bankruptcy, World in crisis, World in flames, Yellow fever.

and all on 0.006 deg C per year!

http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/warmlist.htm

Nice passive jab at Clinton. What this article says is that McCain doesn't have plant questions that he goes to in the audience.

Nice passive jab at Clinton. What this article says is that McCain doesn't have plant questions that he goes to in the audience.

Dave, Tn (Sent Friday, December 07, 2007 12:28 PM)

I think you left one off the list:

Republicans scrambling to spin scientific facts.

CitizenJ (Sent Friday, December 07, 2007 12:49 PM)


you just called them "scientific facts" AND yet criticized republicans of spin.  All in the same sentence.  That's so precious.  Bliss is a wonderful way of life.  You must be very happy.

Dave, thanks for the list. I hope you copy/pasted that. Otherwise you have WAY too much time on your hands.

It's all just a conspiracy, Dave. Don't fret yer purdy lil' head none.


Poor John McCain - Brave, honest, like previous poster said, thinks Mexicans are people, someone who actually knows what torture is, a war hero - he has no place in the republican party.

you just called them "scientific facts" AND yet criticized republicans of spin.  All in the same sentence.  That's so precious.  Bliss is a wonderful way of life.  You must be very happy.

sick of "washington" (Sent Friday, December 07, 2007 12:58 PM)

How is calling them what they are spinning? You see, scientists do these things called "studies" and "experiments". Their results, if they are able to be replicated reliably, are accepted as scientific fact until proven otherwise.

Oh, and yes, I am pretty happy. Thanks for noticing.

Mc Cain lost when he put his arm around Bush.  Of course he is allowing questions.  What does he have left?  Anyway he is to old to run for President.  He made a good maveric Senator, but he can't even be that now that he sold out to the Bushies and Evangelicals.  

"if they are able to be replicated reliably"
CitizenJ (Sent Friday, December 07, 2007 1:06 PM)


how exactly do they replicate global warming reliably?

If only the American people could look past the Glitz and money offered, John McCain will LISTEN  to us, he is an honest, intelligent man with years of experience, he is not trying to BUY the Oval office, he wants it because he KNOWS  he is the best offered to us for these times. Take time to listen to him, compare his down to earth solutions to the other want to bees. I have a point system I use in studying people and he rated higher than any of the rest. Maturity, Integrity, Honesty, Intelligence,  Foresight,  Reputation,  Loyality,  Duty,  Honor and Courage. All the money in the world cannot buy one of these attributes. They have to be earned.

If I had only one choice and it was a repub it would be McCain, he is the only honest candidate on that side, too bad the powers behind the party will not support him!
Dave,Tn, you get the prize for the longest post with the least amount of information, Congrats.

CitizenJ:

So far the scientific results, specifically projections and predictions of what they believe will happen, haven't been replicated reliably.  Absent that, none of the conclusions can be accepted as scientific fact. The most I'll settle for is that it's a scientific "best guess".

At this point there are facts that can be fixed to the policy, but I don't think this issue has truly passed beyond the theory state.  Models are models and we have yet to see if their results can be replicated reliably.

Thermometers are generally reliable and their results can be replicated reliably.  Beyond that there are only correlations, interpretations and predictions of which some, none or all will be realized.

Global warming is undeniable because the thermometers say so.  Beyond that nothing has really occurred to prove that the effects of global warming will play out as we have been told.  

The question of what role human activities actually play, or will play, is far from being scientifically proven and the term "fact" doesn't apply.

Studies and experiments are part of the process and can either prove or disprove the theory.  We certainly haven't had enough of those to determine if any of the predictions will come true.  I

In the mid-seventies, science was inclined to believe that an ice age was pending.  Weather events that are currently being linked to global warming largely have precedents in our history and geologic history shows dramatic climate change in the complete absence of 19th and 20th century human activity.

Skepticism is part of science as well.  The list Dave, TN supplied references subjects of articles that have appeared, all of which contain some reference to phenomena being caused by or linked to global warming in some way.  They aren't facts, but how "facts" have been used to come up with innumerable conclusions, many of which are in direct opposition to another.

I'll concede that temperatures are increasing because thermometers say so.  Beyond that, healthy skepticism is is not spin.  

Dave's post was getting at contraditions within global warming/climate change.  ONE example, if it rains hard its attributed to global warming or if it is super dry its also attributed to global warming.  Is what Dave doesn't understand and doesn't wish to understand is the global warming makes it so the atmosphere can hold more moisture, so when it rains, it's going to rain harder and that also explains the dryness.  There is a lot of good science out there pointing to global warming, and I really hope people don't believe the political BS that is thrown about.  Let the scientists deal with the science.  It's peer-reviewed for a reason.  Consequently, conservatives and global warming enthusiasts alike incorrectly point to daily cold and warm temperatures to show a point.


sick of "washington" also shows that he or she knows nothing about science.  I'm not going to teach them, because they won't listen anyway.  I just hope reasonable people do.

I see this as McCain understanding that there are things that need to change.  Even if you deny the possiblity that the Earth is warming, if you don't see the oppertunity to make money via businesses cleaning up things, then you fail to see a future.  

I believe that there should be something done.  With the higher rates of CO2 and methane (among others), our weather will be come warmer longer and become less predictable.  When things like the weather change drasticly, businesses have to make expensive changes costing them profits.  This goes beyond the fact that the business (I don't want to do it) oriented administration thinks that there is nothing wrong and calls all legitimate science that you would see in places like Scientific American "junk science" because there is some level of uncertainty.  

So does this mean global warming is the next fear mongering tactic? "We have to stop global warming at the north pole or it will follow us home!!"

If the Arctic ice cap melts, and the Gulf stream gets disrupted, models show England could turn sub Arctic.  When the temperature goes below freezing in England 200 nights a year, Dave will be screaming that it's proof there's no such thing as global warming. "Faith-based science." Just another benefit of letting evangelicals pick our presidents and letting people with NO scientific training shout down Ph.D.s.

Let's see - I can believe the earth is 6,000 years old, I can believe that God gave some plowboy a golden book which then disappeared, I can believe I can be a rat bastard my entire life and go to heaven just because I asked Jesus into my heart (and forgot all about it), but this global warming stuff - next you'll tell me the earth is round.

Say it with me: "Jesus horses."

Here's a news flash! He isn't listening, he is pandering and changing the subject. The only other things he talks about are the miserable war in Iraq-which the majority of people in the country oppose. Imigration-which the majority of the people in the country dissagree with him on. Wasteful gov. spending-but never seems to address the issue of billions of tax payer dollars being wasted or simply vanishing in Iraq(I guess that's OK!) And now there is the pesky NIE report, which simply does not agree with his war mongering retoric. The global warming tactic is just a distraction, which if elected he would do nothing about.

Still waiting, Geebus:

The key to your post is the first word.  "If".  

I can believe Brother Al's Travelling Salvation Show or I can believe the Brit that demonstrated "An Inconvenient Truth" was wrong on six or seven major points/assertions.

Whatever.  In the meantime, I won't claim to have all the answers if you won't.

Be encouraged, however.  I have no doubt medical science could help you with the burr you have up your butt about religious faith.  

Huh, didn't know that. McCain is campaigning on environmental issues.

Don't think it will work. McCain is boxed in on all sides. What keeps these guys in the race? Is it ego, or just a willingness to let things play out to see if something wild can happen? Well, probably too harsh. Even the lowest of the second tier candidates has a lot of volunteers who have given themselves to the campaign. Not letting them down has to be a big emotional pull keeping some in the race.

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