First thoughts: All tied up

Posted: Monday, December 10, 2007 9:24 AM by Mark Murray
Filed Under: First Thoughts

From Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, and Domenico Montanaro
*** All tied up: With just slightly more than three weeks until the first nominating contest, three new MSNBC/McClatchy/Mason-Dixon polls show that the Democratic contest isn’t just a dead heat in Iowa -- it’s also tied in New Hampshire and South Carolina. In Iowa, Clinton has the lead over Obama, 27%-25% (although that’s within the poll’s 5% margin of error), while Edwards comes in third at 21%. In New Hampshire, it’s Clinton 30%, Obama 27%, and Edwards 10%. And in South Carolina, it’s Clinton 28%, Obama 25%, and Edwards 18%. To borrow a sports analogy, the impressive underdog (Obama) has tied it up in the fourth quarter after trailing the once-seemingly invincible favorite (Clinton) for most of the contest. It’s now anybody’s game. But the polls also remind us not to discount Edwards in Iowa, where only Bill Clinton (72%) has higher favorable numbers than the former North Carolina senator (69%). In addition, the polls show Clinton and Edwards sharing similar supporters in New Hampshire. Is the same thing happening in Iowa? Chatter with smart analysts tells us yes. The old conventional wisdom: Edwards hurts Obama. The new CW: the longer Edwards is in, it helps Obama? (Here is the full data for the Democrats: Iowa Dem, NH Dem, SC Dem.)

*** Huck’s surge: Turning to the GOP race, the MSNBC/McClatchy polls are the latest evidence of Huckabee’s surge in Iowa, where he leads Romney, 32%-20% -- with Thompson in third at 11%, McCain in fourth at 7%, and the national front-runner Giuliani fifth at 5%. The survey also shows why Huckabee is ahead in the Hawkeye State: He’s the overwhelming choice among those who identify themselves as born-again Christians and weekly churchgoers. In New Hampshire, it’s Romney 25%, Giuliani 17%, McCain 16%, and Huckabee 11%, and in South Carolina it’s a statistical dead heat: Huckabee 20%, Giuliani 17%, Romney 15%, Thompson 14%, and McCain 10%. (Three months ago, would anyone have believed that Thompson would be in fourth place in South Carolina?) A final observation from the poll: There might be a Ron Paul revolution -- blimp and all -- but it isn’t among Republican voters. In all three states, Paul has a net negative fav/unfav rating among GOP voters. Finally, check out Bush's unpopularity in New Hampshire. Phew. Looks like GOP troubles in the Northeast are serious. (Here is the full data for the Republicans: Iowa Rep, NH Rep, SC Rep.)

*** O & O: Those polls were released as Day Two of Oprah-palooza concluded in South Carolina and New Hampshire. Oprah stumping for Obama over the weekend continues to dominate today’s political news. It was an impressive showing, with the Obama campaign -- and, perhaps more accurately Oprah -- attracting audiences that you’d normally see the final week before a general election. But as we noted on Friday, we’ll find out in 24 days if Oprah was the high-water mark for the Obama campaign or the beginning of something larger.

*** On the hot seat: The Sunday shows -- especially Giuliani on Meet the Press and Huckabee on Fox News Sunday -- were all about weighing the GOP baggage. The best could you say about Rudy’s Meet appearance was that he held his own against a barrage of questions. But it also raised a host of questions: How long can he keep up this idea that he won't release the details of everything? How much will the RNC campaign against Hillary be undermined if Giuliani is the nominee? Can they hit her on releasing library records if Giuliani won't release his client list? And can they hit her on being honest and trustworthy if he's changing his story on when (or if) Judith got police protection? Huckabee was also defensive over his past (Dumond, AIDS). Toss in Romney and his flip-flops, and the past has become a major story in the GOP race. Whose baggage is heaviest? Who can best explain his past Who can best explain his past in an authentic and trustworthy fashion? By the way, it looks like someone found more Huckabee quotes from his past and the Drudge Report is dutifully linking to a 9-year-old article this morning. (Hmmm, which GOP campaign is close to Drudge?)

*** Closing time: Clinton's up with a new TV ad in Iowa and New Hampshire, which sure sounds to us like a closing ad of sorts. “It is time for America to set and reach big goals again,” she says in it. “To restore our standing in the world. To rebuild the middle class dream and to reclaim the future for our children. We need a new beginning on health care… We need a new beginning on education… We need a new beginning in our foreign policy.” She concludes, “It takes strength and experience to bring about change.” Meanwhile, Edwards is embarking on an eight-day bus tour through Iowa (later including actors Kevin Bacon and Tim Robbins), which his campaign is billing as his closing argument where he'll debut a new stump speech -- transforming "Two Americas" to an optimistic sounding "America Rising." As we have written before, while Iowa is 24 days away, there might be only 10-11 days left when voters are actually paying attention, due to the upcoming Christmas holiday. If you're going to make your closing argument, all three leading Dems believe now is the time to do it...

*** Also… : Don't miss Al Hunt’s column about the tension between Bill and Hillaryland, and also about the Clinton camp's frustration with the press... Winning campaigns don't have problems like these, do they? And speaking of don’t misses: This week plays host to the final pre-Iowa debates. Last night's Univision debate was not the place to go negative. But the Wednesday and Thursday Des Moines Register debates -- if the format allows -- might be.

*** On the trail: Elsewhere today, Biden campaigns in Iowa; Clinton is in Los Angeles, but has no public events; Dodd has his meeting at Google HQ in Mountain View, CA; Giuliani stumps in San Francisco; Huckabee holds a press avail in Dallas, TX before hitting two fundraisers there; McCain stumps in South Carolina; Obama holds a roundtable discussion on retirement security in Las Vegas before hitting a star-studded event in Los Angeles; Richardson also is in LA; Romney raises money in New York City and Baltimore. Also, Bill Clinton campaigns in Iowa, while Jeri Thompson is in South Carolina.

Countdown to Iowa: 24 days
Countdown to New Hampshire: 29 days
Countdown to Michigan: 36 days
Countdown to Nevada and SC GOP primary: 40 days
Countdown to SC Dem primary: 47 days
Countdown to Florida: 50 days
Countdown to Tsunami Tuesday: 57 days
Countdown to Election Day 2008: 330 days
Countdown to Inauguration Day 2009: 407 days

Click here to sign up for First Read emails.

EMAIL THIS

Comments

I cant wait to vote for Obama now that Oprah has said I should .Her name is known for honesty except for the time she had us fall for the guy who lied in his book and called it the truth It can happen to the best of us,and oh yea the school that was abusing childern she opened Im sure it was just the people she picked that were the problem.So why listen to her at all except she has made alot of money off women and now she won't support one for president,makes you go hmmmmmm

kenn (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 11:17 AM)

It is a sad thing to me that this speech cannot be delivered by every child attending our schools, why?? because it mentions the word that is being taken away from us. I want for my next president to stand up for America's values that was given to me when I was a child. I could freely put my hand over my heart and say the pledge, I could pray in school, I could say Merry Christmas to any one. I don't shout my faith neither do I whisper it, it is just there in my heart. I don't care what church you go to, what color you are or what language you speak, just don't demean my faith, my color or my speech. I am an American and I will defend your rights to the last, but you must defend mine also. The words of this speech could be easily altered to fit us today, please read them and feel the same surge of power I feel every time I hear it: Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.
Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation, so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate—we can not consecrate—we can not hallow—this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us — that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion — that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain — that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom — and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

Marty CR Iowa (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 11:20 AM)

nsmsnbc:

Another difference - older people participate, younger people don't. Obviously no one knows for sure what the turnout for younger voters will be at the caucus here or in other states - they could make a huge difference. Or they could do what they usually do and not show up.

I have expressed my concern before that Obama is banking on an unreliable group of people coming through for him. Maybe it will pay off and maybe it won't, but it is a somewhat risky strategy.

Carrie, Eastern Iowa (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 11:21 AM)

Ok..time out, to check it out once an for all. Just take a quick looksie. hillaryclinton.com

Bill C. (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 11:21 AM)

First, I watched Oprah's speech before Obama took the stage the other day and was impressed with her. She spoke with passion and conviction. She definitately believes in this guy and for that, she should be commended that she's taking a role in this election.

Second, Obama has more experience than Hillary in elected position. He was a state senator for a number of years before becoming a US Senator. Hillary had zero elected experience before she was elected to the US Senate.

Third, I was, at one point, a strident Hillary supporter. I am now undecided between her and Barak. I am leaning a bit his way. This is because I am getting answers from Barak that Hillary refused address.

Fourth, Huckabee is the last thing this country needs...another bible beater who denies evolution. What a laughing stock in the world we'ld be if we had a president that thinks the world and the universe is only about 6000 years old, and we all came from Adam and Eve, who only had two sons.

pat huntington ny (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 11:22 AM)

Winning campaigns dont have these problems .ASK RUDY OR MITT one has so much corruption and the other belives in a fairytail religion hows that for winning.Or how about 400 dollar haircuts is that a sign of a winner how about not talking about your past record laced with shady deals in chicago obama is that how you win LAST WORD cant wait till hill wins and you eat those words while trying to gain access to an interveiw why would she waste her breath on you.

kenn (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 11:22 AM)

why hillary won't let us verify her experience in the white house? the good and the bad? i want to see it.

ace p washington, d.c. (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 11:22 AM)

As Senator Obama moves up to share(for all intents and purposes) front runner status, I sincerely hope that the criticisms and attacks that will inevitably go along with that leading position will be tempered by fairness and civility. From some of the posts on this site, I can see that there are some unhealthy, and frankly, bigotted, semtiments about his campaign out there; I would hate to see his candidacy evolved into a another divisive issue for our voters. Hopefully, everyone can keep their emotions in check.

Dot, Illinois (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 10:09 AM)

Considering the lack of civility that has been demonstrated regarding Hillary, I wouldn't bet on it. It was fair to critique every minute detail of Hillary, from the way she laughed to her clothes to (on this blog at least) speculation about her sexual performance. I doubt there will be less of a microscope on Obama.

Carrie, Eastern Iowa (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 11:27 AM)

To Jean Moeller, Mesa, Arizona: Africa is a continent, not a country!!! Wow and your comments were very ignorant as well.

Erika Ruud Twin Valley MN (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 11:29 AM)

Ummm, was this another poll where Ron Paul wasn't even given as an option? because I know he has been polling higher than 5% in IA and higher than 7% in NH. Idiots!

Liz C, Dover, NH (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 11:30 AM)

Sheila said:

"I want smart, articulate, knowledgeable in both foreign and domestic issues, a plan to get out of Iraq ASAP and wants dialogue instead of war with Iran. I want a delegate who is polished, has the ability to "cross the aisle" and make me proud when he is visiting other countries while gaining the respect of those foreign nations. I want a candidate who has a plan for medical care for everyone, for the poor perhaps on a pay scale or something along those lines. "

I agree. Who is in first place right now, who has more skeletons in their closets, who called who what ugly names, and who believes in what version of god are all attempts to sidetrack us each from doing the work it requires to decide on the best candidate. For too long, the presidential campaign has been akin to a high school popularity contest. "The people," en masse, are led by the media, the polls, the surface sound bites. Each one of us has the responsibility to do some research on each candidate's position, and choose the one that best fits our own ideals.

Personal responsibility is a hard thing to teach present-day America. But it is the only way we are going to restore our country to the noble democracy it can be. Stabbing each other's opinions of various candidates does nothing but slow us down.

Erica, Las Vegas, NV (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 11:31 AM)

I hear the teacher from Peanuts cartoons everytime I read this crap. Please, for the love of all things holy and right, Van, stop vomiting all voer First Read. We know. We know. There shall be no ther candidate before us but Clinton. Spare us.
Mike K, Denver (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 11:02 AM)

Instead of whining about it all the time, scroll past it. It is pretty simple to do. It would have taken less time to scroll past it and read another comment than it took you to write your post.

You have no greater right to post on First Read than anyone else does. You are no better than anyone else is. I think those are two things you have forgotten.

Carrie, Eastern Iowa (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 11:33 AM)

"Why do people actually vote on who they want as president by their race or their gender? It's funny because you all are the people that are running america into the ground, you are probably the same people who voted for Kennedy because he was atractive, and you should be ashamed to even vote at all. If you vote the vote on the issues and not just because you like someone's appearance more than someone else.
Mark, Atlanta Georgia (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 10:40 AM)"

You're absolutely correct. Analysts believed that GW Bush won in spite of his platform being at odds with large numbers of people who voted for him because he was considered "more likeable", "a regular guy", "someone you'd like to sit down and have a beer with". Look how that turned out.

John B, Des Moines, IA (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 11:33 AM)

I tried to post this earlier, so if it a duplicate, I apologize. Senator Edwards has not been very critical of Senator Obama---do you think he would run as VP if Senator Obama gets the nod?

Dot, Illinois (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 11:36 AM)

Carrie

I tend to agree with you--but that bothers me. I would just hate to see this election "polarize" our voters along ethnic lines. If that happens, our country suffers.

Dot, Illinois (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 11:41 AM)

Exactly Carrie.
Obama supporters lie about Hillary continuously, on this board and in other forums.
That brand of filthy, slash and attack politics is fine with them when THEY are directing it towards her.
But, don't you DARE hit them back with the truth about 'Lil Barracky!
Can we PLEASE get an answer from Obama as to WHY he's involved in a land deal with indicted political racketeer Antoin Rezko?

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 11:44 AM)

Mariann Pepitone. Chicago, IL

You ought to post something with substance. Everything that you posted passes as just hyperbole. As far as Oprah stumping foer him, that is what campaigns do, campaigns get people with big names/big draws to draw crowds so they can hear the candidate speak. You probably wouldn't be so venomous if she were stumping for your candidate. As far as the drinking/drugging, at least he didn't lie about his experiences or try to spin out of them.(I didn't inhale)
"I can just imagine both of them in the white house, Oprah doing the talking and Obama doing the drinking."-Are you kidding? What do you imagine if Bill and Hill are in the white house? You sound just as vitriolic as your candidate. post something with substance that you can back up.

PS If you don't live in the city of Chicago, but in the outlying suburbs, don't say you live in Chicago, you are from the suburbs!

Jimmy CHICAGO IL (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 11:44 AM)

From the Bloomberg article cited:

These are DEMOCRATS !!

'...The concerns about Clinton, 60, a New York senator, are that she is devious, calculating and, fairly or not, a divisive figure in American politics.

Those are a lot tougher to overcome.

It was revealing, too, when Hart pushed them to envision these senators as leaders of the country or, as he put it, their ``boss.'' Obama, they say, would be inspirational, motivating, charismatic and compassionate. After praising Clinton's experience and intelligence, they say she would be demanding, difficult, maybe even a little scary....'

These are DEMOCRATS, ready to support the nominee

'...devious, calculating and, fairly or not, a divisive figure in American politics....'

They go that right..
I wonder what independents think ?
They might not support a devious, calculating politician....
Why would independents support a 'devisive fighre in American politics' ?

Time to turn the page
Let's look for new leadership
Let's look for change and reform
Let's support honesty and integrity
It's important !!

Sierra, SF (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 11:44 AM)

*** He needs Oprah to speak for him because he lacks the ability and training to know how to make speeches. ***

That's an amazingly stupid comment, considering that he rose to national prominence on the basis of his speech at the Democratic Convention in 2004.

*** I can just imagine both of them in the white house, Oprah doing the talking and Obama doing the drinking. ***

Yep, what we're witnessing here is the death rattle of the Clinton campaign, and this is the quality of the commentary from them.

Mark C, Asheville NC (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 11:45 AM)

Imagine someone so dense that they confuse links to unbiased information as sites promoting one candidate over the other. Now imagine that they are so dense that they broadcast this ignorance to everyone here. Finally, imagine the arrogance of ignorance it takes to call this information, "vomit".

"And you ride yourselves over the fields
and you make all your animal deals
and your wise men don't know how it feels
to be thick as a brick."*
From Ian Andersen, to Meth-lab Mike.

Van
(From, "Thick as a Brick" by Jethro Tull

vanreuter, NY NY (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 11:47 AM)

Mike K -> maybe someone in one of those states can clear this up for me: Why are you all still drinking from the Hillary kool-aid that she's the most "experienced" democrat in the field? <-

Maybe I can clear this up for you. She has experience because Bill has told us so. Thats it, nothing more. It's more of a perception thing then a reality thing.

But, now things are changing. People are paying a little more attention to what the Clinton's are babbling, and then truth is coming out. And we all know that the truth and the Clintons don't mix well together.

John Morris, Cape Town NC (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 11:52 AM)

J Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY

"Don't you dare hit them back with the truth about Little Baracky."
--------------------------------------------------
If that was in refercence to my earlier post, I have consistently commented on the lack of civility in many of the comments about Senator Clinton too. Frankly, I think all the insults about any of the candidates, the name calling, and down right hate filled blah, blah, blah, are childish rantings.

Dot, Illinois (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 11:57 AM)

If it is experience you want, then look up to the "older voter" we have been there, done that. We have been running this country for years, for bad and for good. If it is change you want then, vote in the kids. But don't expect too much to get done till they grow older. I will vote for experience every time over youth, I know where I want my country to go and it can only get there with a dedicated American for all the people. John McCain.

Marty CR Iowa (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 12:01 PM)

The problem for Hillary isn't that straight male voters are uncomfortable with a woman as President; it's that they're uncomfortable with the idea of Bill Clinton as First Lady. The sad truth is, most straight men (and conservative women) cannot yet accept the idea of a man fulfilling the role normally held by a woman. Because in our society, it is acceptable for a woman to fulfill roles held by men; for a woman to be more masculine. But America has a real prejudice toward men fulfilling roles performed by men.

What happens in the general election when the media do stories on the future First Lady? We may have Mrs. Romney or Mrs. McCain or Mrs. Guiliani... with Bill Clinton. Are they going to ask Bill for *his* chocolate chip cookie recipes? Then there is the issue of visiting dignitaries and political figures from other nations coming to the White House--and being told they'll be leaving their wives for tea with Bill Clinton.

This is an issue Margaret Thatcher never had to contend with: her husband fulfilling a role defined solely by British society's prejudices about what it is to be a man. I think voters can accept a woman for President, but they are not yet ready to see a man fulfill the duties and responsibilities of First Lady. Is it fair? No. But I think it is reality.

JZW, Los Angeles, CA (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 12:03 PM)

Also looking at the poll results, I notice that a big difference between Obama and Hillary supporters are their age. The under 50 crowd is mostly Obama while the over-50 crowd is mostly Hillary. I'd love to see these numbers broken down even further so that we can see how each candidate fares among the college crowd, the working crowd, those over retirement age, etc.

It appears to me that Obama's "message of hope and change" scares the crap out of old people. They like the status quo. They believe that changing the way government runs or a shift in the beliefs of government will cause them some great harm. I believe it is the opposite. The current way government runs will cause Social Security to go bankrupt before those +50 folks have even one toe in the ground. Change is hope that this and other programs meant for the benefit of everyone are maintained, if not improved drastically.

Clinton has given no reason TO change or FOR change. She hasn't given any details of how she'd do things differently than we've had for the last 8 years. If even the over 50 crowd is convinced that Dubya is the worst President this country's had, why would they continue to support a person that has given absolutely no indication that she will make the necessary changes so that we do move on to a different, better course in our nation's history?

Mike K, Denver (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 12:05 PM)

I called Thompson's bluff over three months ago. Who thought 3 months ago that Thompson would be in fourth place in South Carolina? Anyone with half a political brain. The only ones who believed Thompson's hype was cable news...

Kelly, Washington, DC (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 12:07 PM)

This Independent is still hoping that Biden can make a strong showing in the early states. He is the only candidate of either party that seems to have the entire package of knowledge, trustworthyness and ability to relate to the people. I could live with Obama, Guiliani or Edwards, but I could not in good conscience vote for any other candidate of either party.

Ron Jeffers, Arizona (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 12:11 PM)

Kenn - visit www.realclearpolitics.com

There are at lest 5 Iowa polls released over the last 2 weeks showing Obama ahead of or tied with Hillary. Until recently, he was consistently 2nd, and in the spring he was back in 3rd in Iowa.

Ava (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 12:16 PM)

Has Oprah ever been in a Civil-Rights march. I have not seen her helping the black politicians over the years, but suddenly she has become one who wants to tell Afro-americans who to vote for. Stick to what you do best "Talk show hosting" or else your career
may take a hit.

Jeff, Boston (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 12:16 PM)

it amazes me at the number of racists remarks that are made here. it amazes me at the number of anti-female remarks that have been posted. how can one be serious voter and claim they are truly american and are for the best interest of our great country when they have hate of race and hate of gender in their thought process? more importantly how can a person hold such ugly and vile poison within them and claim to be american?
---------------------

Excuse me? I am neither a racist nor anti-woman. I am a Barack Obama supporter. I do not hate Hillary because she lacks a penis, either. I dislike Hillary because she comes off as a smary, good-for-nothing, Republican-lite in her speeches and policies. She has consistently taken the low road in debates, her ads, and her other appearances when speaking about her opponents, but heaven forbid any of them say one word against her because, according to her campaign, that would be gender bashing and is highly frowned upon. If she were truly strong enough to be President of the United States, she would take any and all shots that come at her instead of hiding behind her gender as she did following the debate in Philadelphia and has consistently done since. Her "kitchen" comments are arrogant at best, gender-bashing in their own right, at their worst. I would line up in a heartbeat to vote a woman into the job, but it has to be the RIGHT woman. Hillary just isn't her.

Mike K, Denver (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 12:17 PM)

Obama is God.

'W (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 12:18 PM)

Lmao Chuck Todd, Rudy is not going to say anything, he took a page from your annoited one Hillary who will not release a document, note, or sentence until the election is over, The DNC and the Rnc will have a feild day with both candidates. Just as a special counsel will have afield day on the Democrats knowing about all the torture goin on and saying DUH i din't know that. The WashingtonToast is spilling the beans on Nancy Pelosi and Harman being briefed and Namcy even asking if the torture was "hard enough". Still haven seen on the MSNBC web site, that NBC has caved in because of massive viewer displeasure and threats of a boycott for not showing Christmas messages of Thank You to our troops. The Blame America, Anti Miltary NBC and Moveon.org was put in its place again LOL
truth n media (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 10:43 AM)

---------------------

Someone want to translate this? My moron to English translator is on the fritz this morning.

Mike K, Denver (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 12:18 PM)

Marty CR Iowa (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 12:01 PM) As another poster previously posted:

There have been 8 previous presidents in their 40's when they took office, and 4 of them were younger than Senator Obama will be.

Ulysses Grant - 46
Franklin Pierce - 47
James Polk - 46
James Garfield - 49
Grover Cleveland - 47
Theodore Roosevelt - 42
John F. Kennedy - 43
William Jefferson Clinton - 46

Dante (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 12:19 PM)

Her it comes again, hillaryclinton.com ,please come join the conversation

Chelse C. (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 12:22 PM)

Are you aware that your article refers to BILL Clinton as the candidate, not Hillary?

M. Houck, Houston, TX (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 12:22 PM)

Cheers to "ace p washington, d.c." for above comments on civility of discussion. Certain bloggers from Texas and New York keep posting the same old comments. All right, we got it! You hate Hilary! So what? Shouldn't the comments be related to the topic of the article, "ALL TIED UP"? The framers of the constitution protected the right to free speech but there was nothing they could do about overbloated nincompoops. Oh well. Next!
That said, how great is it that this is a three-person race? I do hope it stays that way until February. Iowa is really not a bellweather state and neither is New Hampshire... Interesting that Clinton is still leading, though, even within the margin of error after weeks of attacks and the O-fest... Amazing that Edwards is still on the radar screen...

T. X. Peccini, registered expat voter in Nicosia, Cyprus (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 12:23 PM)

Dennis Kucinich is electable. He is what America wants and needs right now! Even if (ESPECIALLY if) he hasn't received as many large campaign contributions from corporations as "the frontrunners" (who only became frontrunners because the media portrays them that way).

Annette, Portland, Oregon (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 11:05 AM)

Maybe on mars he is electable, but here he is just another left wing nutjob with a hot wife.....

jerry/corpus christi texas (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 12:25 PM)

Hillarys' ad wasn't copied from Obama because Obama doesn't have the intelligence to know how to place an ad. I have seen some of his ads and they are a JOKE!!
And to go on record he is a joke. He needs Oprah to speak for him because he lacks the ability and training to know how to make speeches. That's what drinking and drugging can do for you. Make your brain waves shot. Besides that, America is not ready for him and may never be no matter how many times he campaigns again and Oprah keeps campaigning for him. Does she want to be the VP. Of course she does. I can just imagine both of them in the white house, Oprah doing the talking and Obama doing the drinking.

Mariann Pepitone. Chicago, IL (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 10:52 AM)

--------------------

Have you read one of his speeches or attended one? His words and his presence on stage are simply amazing. He commands the stage better than any of his opponents. He doesn't need Oprah, but if she's willing tohelp someone she truly believes in, and can use her star power to help him, so much the better. I think you hate hearing him speak because you can't understand him. He speaks in words to hard for you to understand. Either that or you're one of the few that still think Hillary will manage to change anything other than the furniture in the White House.

Mike K, Denver (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 12:27 PM)

Carrie--You are true about who historically and will likely vote (older folks). I will disagree that Obama is not seeking the elderly vote. I'm bracketing, because I'm not sure of the accuracy of my statment. [Hillary's support used to be strongly with women, now they are more even. Hillary/Barack were about even with the black vote, but it is now trending towards Obama.] I think we will yet see a similar trend among the elderly population. We'll see what happens.

Maybe H.R. Clinton's elderly support can be attributed to the fact that she is now an old person--she just turned 60! No, there are a bunch of things, to name a few. Older people seem, to me, to respond stronger to fear mongering (not that I think Hillary is doing that), but she is lumped with Republicans who do, and she does try to portray herself more hawkishly. Ummm, I seriously doubt older folks are as interested in the change message as younger folks, and probably favor the experience line. Also, it could be generational. Older/younger attitudes about race are much, much different, but older women and men might favor the prospect of a woman as something they've been waiting for. Like my grandma who flat-out stated that Germans arethe superior race, even though her husband fought a war to prove that wrong. And I was shocked, but skipping the AARP forum/debate seems to have labeled Obama in a bad light with many seniors.

Dot--I doubt that Edwards would run for a VP nod. He's done that before, but much more, I wouldn't think the Democrats would run him for VP again if he and Kerry were unsuccessful the first time. He claims it's more that he disagrees with Clinton on the issues. I could be wrong.

Mark and People--What's wrong with using race, gender, other personal qualities/factors when deciding whom one wishes to support for President? Ideally, people would live in a vacuum and only consider the 'proper' factors, but realistically, it's going to happen. What's wrong with women saying, hey, it took you smucks 150 years to give us the right to vote and 100 years more to allow us a candidate from our background? What's wrong with blacks saying, look at all the trials we've gone through in American history, I'm going to support the candidate that represents the obsticals we have overcome and are yet overcoming! Those who say it shouldn't be a factor (me included) need to understand that it is important and it is meaningful. And I think people do take the issues into account along with the subjective.

Voting for religion is kind of a different matter. Many people 'get their' values from religion (which I say is wrong), so it is probably an issue in the sense that people can understand where a candidate 'gets his or her' values from and relate and agree.

Why did F-R not report that Gore accepted the nobel peace prize today--that seems right up their alley. Who might he endorse and when? Right before the election might offer a much needed media boost for whichever candidate. How about Kennedy/Kerry, with the closeness of the race, might they wait until after Iowa but before NH? Especially, if one or both support(s) Hillary, could that help her firewall in NH? I guess, I'm unsure of their sway in NH, part of the NE family.

On a final note, what the heck is kool-aid, though I doubt it's clever? I get nicknaming Bush, scrub, ho-ho also clever, hardly. I get that it means BS, but the term kool-aid is seemingly out of nowhere to me. Anybody?

--NSMSNBC (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 12:29 PM)

It appears to me that Obama's "message of hope and change" scares the crap out of old people.
Mike K, Denver (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 12:05 PM)

Or, perhaps, maybe the older voter just doesn't believe Obama? Maybe they see things differently than Obama does?

Maybe it's not that they are scared - maybe, just maybe, after decades of voting in presidential elections, they actually know what they want and it is NOT Obama.

Did you ever consider that before making assumptions?

Carrie, Eastern Iowa (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 12:29 PM)

Thank-you Marty CR Iowa, for reminding me what it's really all about!

dedicated to liberty, MO (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 12:29 PM)

All this hype about Hillery and Obama for Iowa voters, I have the feeling that Edwards will come out on top in the long run here. Not that I think he is presidental material, but I know how Iowa thinks. They believe in honesty and experience, and that says it all.

Marty CR Iowa (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 12:32 PM)

Obama is the AntiChrist.

Scared of Obama (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 12:33 PM)

Mike, exactly where in the debates did Hillary take the low road when speaking about her opponents?

Carrie, Eastern Iowa (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 12:33 PM)

RE: Presidents and their ages

Looking at the list, I feel it prudent to point out that when many of those men were president, the life expectancy was probably 20-30 years younger than it is now.

Carrie, Eastern Iowa (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 12:37 PM)

In Al Hunt's column he says that no one, in the last 30 years, has lost both Iowa and New Hampshire and gone on to win the nomination. Why, then, does Guiliani think he can stay viable with a loss in these two early contests?

Tim F., Palm Springs, CA (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 12:38 PM)

Mike, exactly where in the debates did Hillary take the low road when speaking about her opponents?

Carrie, Eastern Iowa

Carrie,

When did her opponents take the low road in the debates. And if you didn't hear the NPR debate read the transcript.

Joan , South Bend, IN (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 12:40 PM)

What amazes me with all the negativity about Hillary is where you picked up your information. The polls according to Chuck Todd states people believe she is less honest and less trustworthy. That begs the question who is promoting this, why are they and what do they have to gain? When members of congress, both Republicans and Democrats alike, who work with her are asked can they rely on her, they say yes and she is one of the hardest workers the Senate has. If people were true to themselves, they would be questioning their own motives. Everyone complains about the candidates when really they should be looking at the person they see in the mirror. The media and candidates will give you what you are seeking. When you want to smear and degrade Hillary for wanting compromise and working across the isle, then what you really want is not a leader to move us together in solving our country's problems, but a one dimensional individual who is narrow minded in his or her views. We have had enough of that my way or the highway mentality with Bush. Electing a president is not entertainment, it takes a serious, well informed voter to elect the most qualified, experienced and mature individual. For those of you who are against Hillary because she is a woman and feel threatened because she might empower women in your own lives, take a step back and look at your own mothers, sisters and grandmothers and ask yourselves what contributions did they make in your lives. Perhaps then you might not be so freightened of her Presidency. Ask Hillary's daughter, mother, co-workers and people who know her if she is honest and trustworthy, not an opinion of the media or opposition party. Do your homework!

Paula, Post Falls, Id. (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 12:42 PM)

Senator John Edwards has a strong message for the future of our country, wheather you are a democrat or an independent voter.

This "yellow dog democrat" is going to support the democratic candidate that wins the nomination.

Moderate republicans would be wise not to waste their votes on the republican nominee.

Your party is over thanks to the last eight miserable years of George Bush and company.

It will take democratic leadership to restore America as a moral leader in the world community.

It just a matter of time.

Elton Smith, San Antonio, Texas (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 12:45 PM)

How do I loath the American political process? Let me count the ways.

I hate the American political process for the massive media hype over frontrunners in early primary states even though cumulatively South Carolina, Iowa, Nevada and New Hampshire have but 3.65 percent of the US population. Get thee a life political reporters for I give not a crap about these political want-to-be's who are but encouraged and enabled by assignment of such importance by the town crier (who often seconds as the village idiot).

I hate the American political process for the ability of candidates to front others as themself to gain favor. Oprah? Heavens, she is an astute business woman but she bows too often to a cause without checking facts or using any sense whatsoever? Can you say "A Million Little Pieces"? or abuse in her own (vanity driven)school? I had but little respect for Senator Obama before this as he hasn't experience, a real strategy for changing the country, or (indeed) a clue (I think most surely he is the Democratic equal to King Bush II - another admitted slacker and substance abuser - now I have ZERO respect for him). I believe that once the media face and power of Ms. Winfrey blows away he will be not but another of her mistakes.

I hate the American political process for allowing someone like Mr. Huckabee to gain any credence whatsover. Yet I loath the American people even more for this. Truth, fact, and science have no meaning for Mr. Huckabee for he has The Book. He truly believes that he is devinely anointed. He would be an ideal candidate for the Taliban, and could perhaps be elected in Iran. What are his supporters thinking? Wait, they don't have to think for they have faith. I ask of them but one favor - please continue your support for him as this will most surely give ANY Democratic nominee a landslide victory. Burn witches, burn!

I hate the American political process for the lack of will the candidates show to do the right thing. Eliminate lobbying, special interest and business contributions to politicians, and pork barrel spending and then perhaps we can elect a candidate of, by, and for the People.

I hate the American political process for the slavish devotion to propaganda - based on fact or not. Give us universal health care, give us a simple tax system, give us simple basic and universally equal access to government. Obviously universal health care can't work since we are the only developed country in the world who has it not (and there are few medical advances elsewhere). Obviously it is more important to suck up to corporations and the greedy and to employ lawyers and accountants than to make taxation so simple that every person and business could understand and administer their own payment, and obviously it is important to promote a system where people decide not to participate because they feel they can not make a difference. Woe to snakes of every kind who do little but demonize others.

The dumbing down of America is real. The hopelessness and laziness of the people are shown in many ways but most obviously in our trust in faith over science and true human compassion. I hate the American political process for beating down the ability of any candidate to challenge this. We are stuck with what we have until we decide to think about each other as much as we think about sports stars, media princesses, or an imagined divine being. Help us all help us all. Learn to love, learn to think, learn to be kind - and elect people who have that same devotion, to each other and not to any label, philosophy, or religion.

I hate the American political process as it makes ME want to give up hope - for the fools are in charge.

Real E. Disgusted, Issaquah, WA (Sent Monday, December 10, 2007 12:50 PM)

<< Previous

Next >>

SEND A COMMENT

PLEASE READ: All comments must be approved before appearing in the thread; time and space constraints prevent all comments from appearing. We will only approve comments that are directly related to the blog, use appropriate language and are not attacking the comments of others.

Message (please, no HTML tags. Web addresses will be hyperlinked):

Your name, city and state (John Doe, Seattle, Wash.):

Your e-mail address (jdoe@msnbc.com):

Your website (it's okay if you don't have one):

Remember me? (We'll keep it private) Remember me?

TRACKBACKS

Trackbacks are links to weblogs that reference this post. Like comments, trackbacks do not appear until approved by us. The trackback URL for this post is: http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/trackback.aspx?PostID=507731