ABOUT FIRST READ

First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



Oh-eight (R): Is Huck the target?

Posted: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 9:08 AM by Domenico Montanaro
Filed Under:

The Des Moines Register previews today’s debate and writes that the final debates before the Iowa caucus could have a “seismic impact.”

The Boston Globe profiles the Des Moines Register editor moderating the Iowa debates in the next two days. “David Yepsen, the Register's veteran political columnist, said yesterday that the candidates should expect a grilling by Washburn. ‘She asks tough questions and pointed questions,’ Yepsen said. ‘She doesn't mess around. She's really being diligent about this.’”
 
The New York Daily News writes, “What's that on Mike Huckabee's back? Looks like a political bull's-eye. The former Arkansas governor, riding a double-digit lead in Iowa polls and gaining nationally, likely will be the prime target when Republican presidential candidates meet near Des Moines this afternoon in their final debate before the first-in-the-nation caucuses Jan. 3.”

More on the debate: The format may be restrictive as the organizers are promising equal time to the point potentially cutting off candidates earlier than others in order to save time. Also, the organizers got very strict on who could participate in the Dem debate but somehow decided to let everyone in on the GOP side. How are Tancredo and Hunter any more viable than Kucinich?

A new Washington Post/ABC poll shows that Huckabee is now in a statistical tie in the national primary with Giuliani. It does beg the question: Why has every top GOP candidate, except Mitt Romney, seen a rise in the national polls during his early state boomlet?

Meanwhile, the Los Angeles Times does the all-the-candidates-have-moved-right-on-immigration story. Looks like Tancredo's succeeded.

HUCKABEE: Last night on Nightly News, NBC's Lisa Myers looked into Huckabee's ethics record, especially when it came to taking gifts. "There's an old saying that it's better to give than to receive," Myers said. "But as governor of Arkansas, Mike Huckabee seemed to like receiving -- a lot." More Myers: “All the gifts were legal. But over the years, the state ethics commission admonished Huckabee five times for failing to report gifts and for failing to report thousands he paid himself and his family from campaign funds." Watch it here.

The Los Angeles Times follows up on the report from earlier this week about how home-schoolers are rallying behind Huckabee. "Huckabee's campaign won't talk much about the home-schooling contingent, which is largely made up of conservative Christians. The staff is weary -- and wary -- of stories that make it seem as though their candidate, an ordained Southern Baptist preacher, relies exclusively on votes and volunteers from the religious right. ‘All I've heard the last week is pastors, pastors, pastors, evangelicals, evangelicals, evangelicals,’ said Eric Woolson, who runs the Iowa campaign.

"’But the buzz in political circles is that a quarter of Huckabee's Iowa volunteers are home-schoolers. ‘It might even be higher than that,’ said Danny Carroll, a campaign co-chairman for the state."

Did you realize that Huckabee's daughter is the campaign's field director? She actually has the resume to do it.

And Hall-of-famer Bob Feller, an Iowa native, endorsed Huckabee.

ROMNEY: The candidate appeared on TODAY this morning, and avoided criticizing Huckabee directly on whether he thought Huckabee was doing wink-and-a-nod criticism of Romney's religion. On the immigration TV spot against Huckabee, Romney replied, "It's not negative, it's accurate… Actually, if you agree with mike Huckabee's position, it's a positive ad for him… It's a contrast ad, not negative."
 
On why his numbers have fallen: "We've seen a lot of surges this campaign." Romney went on to tick off the things about Huckabee's record that he believes deserves scrutiny, including taxes, pardons, and immigration. And on Morning Joe, Romney was asked whether he thought Huckabee was using his Mormon faith against him: "I certainly hope that's not the case."

The AP gets a response from the Mormon church about Huckabee's quote in the upcoming New York Times magazine asking whether Mormons believed Jesus and Satan were brothers. "A spokeswoman for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints said Huckabee's question is usually raised by those who wish to smear the Mormon faith rather than clarify doctrine. ‘We believe, as other Christians believe and as Paul wrote, that God is the father of all,’ said the spokeswoman, Kim Farah. ‘That means that all beings were created by God and are his spirit children. Christ, on the other hand, was the only begotten in the flesh and we worship him as the son of God and the savior of mankind. Satan is the exact opposite of who Christ is and what he stands for.’”

“Call it Jane Swift's revenge. The former acting governor of Massachusetts, who was rather unceremoniously elbowed aside by Mitt Romney, a fellow Republican, in the 2002 governor's race, twists the knife in an opinion piece yesterday.”

Romney received the National Review’s nod yesterday. "Romney is an intelligent, articulate, and accomplished former businessman and governor. At a time when voters yearn for competence and have soured on Washington because too often the Bush administration has not demonstrated it, Romney offers proven executive skill... He still has some convincing to do with other conservatives. Romney has been plagued by the sense that his is a passionless, paint-by-the-numbers conservatism. If he is to win the nomination, he will have to show more of the kind of emotion and resolve he demonstrated in his College Station ‘Faith in America’ speech."

Some who are disappointed they didn't get the NR endorsement are reminding us of some of the personal contributions Romney made to groups affiliated with the conservative magazine. 

THOMPSON: Today's Washington Post focuses its presidential profile series on Thompson and the intro on the hard copy of the front page is just brutal. Here are the teasers:
 -- "He assumed it would be a walk-on part, but when he saw the script, he was reading for "Fred Thompson." "The smallest decision can lead to doors opening in your life that you never could image," he says."
-- "How he's running: Movies sometimes flop, and so, too, presidential campaigns. In Thompson's case, he let the magic moment pass."
-- "How he looks: The only message that comes through in his attires is that it is wholly perfunctory. He wears cloths so as not to be naked."
-- "How he talks: His 87-year-old mother's advice persuaded him to reject the new intelligence report that Iran has suspended its nuclear program. 'Remember whatcha mama told ya,' he says. 'If somethin' appears to be too good to be true, it probably is.' Is it possible to be too folksy? Thompson seems determined to find out."

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Comments

Scripture says  JOHN 3:13 - for God So loved the world that He sent His ONLY Begotten Son (not His first born, not His other son, His ONLY begotten.)
And political people all skeletons, they all have strange bed-fellows...if you think your candiate has no "SLEEZY" background, then you're not very up-to-date on the political process.  It's all about "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours". Not saying it's good - but it's sadly the way it is. So, if you as a voter think you want to point fingers at another candidate, you're crazy if you think the candidate of your choice is without fault/blame/questionable decisions/etc.  We can all find a questionable story to pull out about one of the candidates.  You're completely in the dark if you think your candidate is fault-free and has no questionable issues/decisions "in their closet".  
Steve in Boise

"Heck any mormon child can tell you this. I know because I was raised mormon, 4 years of seminary, 2 year mission, married in their temple, and finally discovered the truth and left."

Please enlighten us. Apparently you discovered that you weren't a morman and that you discovered the truth. What, exactly, is the truth so we can all stop searching and beating each other up?
Amen Kathryn!
Every time I mention the forefathers' relgion a Christian nutbag will pull John Adams out of their you know what. LOOK IT UP, THE GOD THAT JOHN ADAMS TALKS ABOUT IS VERY DIFFERENT THAN THE GOD YOU BELIEVE IN.

I WORK SO I DON'T HAVE ALL DAY TO SPEND EXPLAINING HOW TRULY IGNORANT YOU ARE.

AGAIN JUST LOOK IT UP.

As for the beliefs of the forefathers they were deists who did not believe in a God who exists beyond the creation of the universe. After creation they believe that God no longer mettles in the affairs of others like you crazy evangelical religious zealots do.

As for deism in our country and the fact that you and your religion are so ridiculously not involved with American values, try looking at Mount Rushmore. You'll find that three of the four men on it are deists: Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, and Abraham Lincoln. (I'm not sure about Roosevelt)

So I've got Jefferson, Washington, and Lincoln and you have the guy who has a big signature.

As for your menial explanations about the war, all I have to say is turn off Fox News. Your justifications and rationalizations for a war waged on false premises and further waged atrociously are no longer considered valid opinions to anyone who is not addicted to either right wing talk radio or Fox News.

The majority of the country is against this war, and was misled into it by GW and Dick (the intelligence fixers). We were told WMD, mushroom cloud, they're going to attack. You know what the international war laws consider an act of agression against a country based on no existing threat to the agressor, a war crime.

Again Look it up. Look it up, I don't have all day, and you cannot be this ignorant. You need to join the rest of Americans who are ready to return to our country's true liberal values put forth by the forefathers.

Whatever, if you educate yourself, no big deal. We are no longer whipped up into a patriotic frenzy. There are enough sane Americans to vote out the Republican ill which plagues this country.
If any of you had the good sense to investigate Huckabee's record for yourselves, you would find he has a lot to offer, and in fact, is a candidate with very balanced and mainstream views, and a record to prove it.  He has nothing to apologize to your peanut galley commentators about.  Romney is a huge phony with sanctuary cities all over Massachusetts that he did nothing about, and with a religion that is a cult that he tries to defend as mainstream, and with the flippest of the flopper position on abortion and other issues that make him simply an opportunist par excellence, devoid of any convictions at all.  Give me Governor Mike Huckabee any time!  And as for the Democrats, the three of them qualify as a bunch of left wing clowns who have so far fooled a lot of people, but I expect that won't last too much longer when people really sober up and figure out what they are actually proposing on a whole range of issues too numerous to elaborate here.  But summarized, they are serving up European socialism on a silver matter, that has long since been recognized by the voters over there as a failed platform that has taken them on a roller coaster ride to disaster.  I lived in France over a period of 15 years and experienced it firsthand.  I would be surprised if intelligent American voters (the large majority) are naive enough to buy their simplistic and costly solutions to complex problems.

JOHN C. LAWRENCE
P.S. I live in the heartland of America, and we don't subscribe to your confederate nonsense. Don't throw the midwest in with the uneducated insanity that is the South.

Oh and before you say that I'm being rude or mean. Again just look it up. Look up how the South has the worst educational scores in the country.

It's not mean if I'm just stating the facts. The truth hurts.
Increasingly, Mike Huckabee is what Leadership looks like ( http://snipr.com/leaderlook ). He's very smart in choosing his battles, carefully. Rudy poses no threat to him in Iowa.

Make no mistake, Huckabee and Giuliani are miles apart in many areas. But Huck's FairTax ( http://snipr.com/fthuckabeeonirs ) is perhaps the pivotal issue. Fact is, Mr. Huckabee has shown himself to be astute as to the ramifications of what FairTax means, not only to middle America, but to the United States' trade and manufacturing position, globally ( http://snipr.com/tradeinequity ).

Further, because the income tax system affords politicians political cover to hide taxes in prices - by increasing costs to business, passed through to consumers, taxpayers will never be aware of the actual tax load they're carrying. This, Laurence Kotlikoff contends ( http://snipr.com/meltdowninprogress ), does not support adequate taxpayer pressure on congressional spending, but rather distracts taxpayers against each other (poor against rich), and individual against corporation.

John Jay, the First Justice of United States Supreme Court said, "Americans should select and prefer Christians as their rulers."  He wrote that not long after the Constitution was written and approved, and apparently saw no conflict with it in his point of view.  Governor Mike Huckabee would make a fine presidential nominee according to any historical standard, certainly from the point of view of the Founding Fathers, most of whom were quite committed Christians.  It's only recently that history has been revised and distorted to make such a point of view so shocking to modern voters.  Thanks to a perverted, left wing media operation!

John Lawrence
John Jay, the First Justice of United States Supreme Court said, "Americans should select and prefer Christians as their rulers."  He wrote that not long after the Constitution was written and approved, and apparently saw no conflict with it in his point of view.  Governor Mike Huckabee would make a fine presidential nominee according to any historical standard, certainly from the point of view of the Founding Fathers, most of whom were quite committed Christians.  It's only recently that history has been revised and distorted to make such a point of view so shocking to modern voters.  Thanks to a perverted, left wing media operation!

John Lawrence
Mitt Romney is THE ONE because of all the candidates on both sides he is the smartest and most learned among them.  He alone is the most capable of leading this nation back to sanity and solvency. He has proved his capacities over and over. Duh!
Desperate -
I, too, am working for a living. 8-5 as a writer...
And I am not addicted to Fox News, although I am glad there is SOMEBODY who will stand up against the liberal media! Obviously, as this thread is on MSN, I like to take a good look at a variety of media sources to draw my conclusions. As a member of the media, and a well-educated one at that, I know that everyone has their own perspective - whether a story has been 'spun' or not - and it is vital to know the facts as seen from all sides of the arena.
Uh.... Thomas Jefferson, George Washing and Abraham Lincoln were deeply rooted in the Christian faith.  I dont know where you are getting these view but I can say with certanity that they are based on historical records, what they said, and their writings.  Also I dont know if you have been to DC or not but there are verses, God, and Christian symbols all over the monuments.  Get your facts straight....I can give sources if you want but I hope that maybe you will look it up yourself and see the truth.
To John Lawrence
KEEP LIVING YOUR SHELTERED EXISTENCE.
Though you may want to believe this:
"certainly from the point of view of the Founding Fathers, most of whom were quite committed Christians"

There is no evidence for this:
"certainly from the point of view of the Founding Fathers, most of whom were quite committed Christians"

Let me help you out. When an animal evolves and gains the ability to reason, in order to use that reason they have to interpret and analyze evidence found in reality.
Though you may be a loon and Rush Limbaugh may tell you that it's all going to okay and everything is truly as it seems to be in your head, the rest of us discuss FACTS or things that happened in HISTORY.

These concepts may seem odd to you. Yes, they may seem very, very odd and strange to you because they don't conform to how you wished the world would be, but actually display how the world was and is. But alas, I am sorry, if you cannot read well enough to understand that the founding fathers were deists, then I am sorry. I will send you a Christmas tiding in the way of hooked on phonics for children.

Best of luck to you, and may I suggest reading.

Doing so will help you from buying into right wing conspiracies about the evil left wing media. Boogy, boogidy, boo. Grow up, the left wing media is not underneath your bed. It's not the medias fault that reality has a left wing bias because most left wing ideas are based in science.

Have a nice day, and again I've got 3 out of 4 on Mount Rushmore and you've got zero evidence to refute that. Good job, you should be proud of your argument.
Huck's the target if he's hunting with Dick Cheney!
I'm with Travis - vote blue.
Romney is being backed by the bank crowd. Rudy has too many skeletons and Huck is a disaster waiting to happen. Romney has all of the qualifications so what's the problem? Seriously? He is the only candidate that I would be proud to show off to the world. If romney does not win, I am voting for the democrats. He is the only candidate I trust. An important bank CEO in Hawaii met him and said he is an amazing guy. He is extremely intelligent with great morals and is not corrupted by what he has attained in life. His so called flip flops are actually him being able to see other people's opinions, especially when the majority wants it. That is called democracy. If the majority want something, he will follow the voice of the people. That is a good thing. It means he can be trusted. Huck is a joke and only uneducated zealots would vote for him to their own peril. Only Romney could win against a democrat!!!
I have a hard time understanding how anyone can support a candidate that believes the Holocaust did not exist.  All you Ron Paul supporters should be ashamed of yourselves.  His message on taxes and minimal government intervention may resonate with many of us but only a misguided individual can actually beleive there was no Holocaust.  
I think just as God would be too smart to run for politics, religious leaders should be smarter and learn to butt out of politics.  It has done nothing to increase followers across this nation.  If anything, it has turned more people against organized religion.
Kathryn in Bham.
Hmm...was that an apology? Do you realize you've been outwitted? Fine then, I accept.

But I will end with this,
You certainly don't appear to be as educated as you claim to be. I hope that this education you speak of is not from a school of journalism, for if it is I would go to them and demand my money back.

Any school of journalism would tell you that there are no sides in objective facts as you maintain. Unless you attended the school of fox news opinion journalism, which would have you believe that everything is debateable. Well some things aren't. Any school will tell you that there are some things particularly concerning history and reality that we can say are objective facts.

I think that you ARE addicted to fox news. Denial is the first step though, you can get through it. The line that you give about your opinion that they balance out the new media is taken directly from Fox. You are a robot. You say only the things that Fox tells you to say and best of all you are brainwashed so you don't even recognize it when you are doing it.

We don't need the different sides to the news. As I mentioned previously there are not different sides to observable facts, different sides represent people's opinions about the news. And as a writer (maybe you aren't a journalist so you wouldn't know) you should know that opinion has no place in the news, outside of the editorial section.

Lastly, Fox has made infotainment common, but it is not reality. It does not balance anything. It injects radical conservative opinion about reality because reality tends to tilt to the left since it is based in science. Thusly, Fox was created to take out the liberal bias, but the liberal bias you speak of is not some crazy conspiracy orchestrated by Ted Turner. The liberal bias is a misnomer for the fact that reality tends to be more left leaning because the left tends to base it's claims more off of reality(science) and less off of the machinations found in one's head such as religious beliefs.

I hope I was able to educate you. Please change for the better and stop being a blight on your community, your country, and this message board.

Have a nice day.
Kathryn in Bham.......just because you did it doesn't mean it's NOT SLEEZY!  If you are republican it's kind of hypocritical to have your "hand out" expecting other people to complete your castle!!!  
Matt Tyler
My facts are straight. Open a history book genius.
And enough with the Fox news line, "just look around Washington."
Grow up, just look around Washington is not an argument. Please learn to read, then pick up a history book, and understand that our founding fathers were deists, which (and I'll help your analysis out here) has zero to do with the Christian faith. They didn't believe Christ was God. Go sit on that.
Desperate -
If you do not believe in Christ why would you send out a Christmas greeting?
Kathryn,

Just for the record.  MOST (that means the majority,not the people you talk to) were against going into war without are allies.  Do you remember the rallies and protests?  I do!  My husband will be deployed to Iraq in 3 months.  Leaving a 3 year old and a 7 month old.  He is willing to make this sacrifice for OUR COUNTRY.  Not for the whims and ideologies of any President......be it greed or religion that drive him.  We need to worry about the betterment of OUR COUNTRY and OUR PEOPLE before we try to convert the world to our way of thinking.  
Vladimir??...Oh, Vladimir!!??  If you are now out of a job in Moscova, there is an opening here on this side of the pond where you perversions, psychoses, and criminality would be just the distillation essence of all the clowns in both our major political parties.  Oh, ras-Putin, you stinkin' little narrow-eyed creep, where are you when you are really needed?
To Kathryn in Bahm

Care to discuss the facts, Kathryn? Have I at least taught you the difference between fact and opinion now?

By the way, atheists celebrate the winter holiday as well. And I think Jesus was one of the greatest philosophers ever, or at least his borrowed buddhist teachings have been inspirational in my life. I see little reason to deify him, because I have grown old enough to no longer believe in the gumdrop lane and candycane gates of heaven.

This is a much larger can of worms, but just because I feel like rearranging your head, two questions:

1. Would you be a Chrisitian if you'd grown up in a non-Christian culture?
2. Would you believe in any religion if they did not lie to you by promising you an everlasting life where you can see your friends and family?

Religions in this way make sense, in that, they aleviate the weak minded's fear of death, by promising them something that doesn't exist.

Lastly, if there is no heaven, if this is the only chance we have (which it is and you realize that deep down), wouldn't you feel more propelled to right the wrongs in the world and make this planet the world that it should be. Hint: Religion is your enslavement, other than it you're probably a really nice person.
First to Desperate-
No, that was not an apology. And yes, the objective in journalism is to be just that - objective, reporting only the facts. However, have you ever read an "objective" report from different sources. Often there are small discrepencies, whether from misguided information, incomplete information, or otherwise different interpretations. What I call "pink" my daughter calls "hot pink"... which are quite different. Doesn't mean anyone brought their opinion into the matter, it just means the objective facts were reported differently.

And to A-
Both your husband and yourself are my heroes first and foremost. I thank you both, and your family, for the sacrifices you make to ensure my freedom and those of my children. And yes, I do remember protests etc... But if you will remember, based on polling and politics, the President made the decisions he did with a high degree of backing from both the general public and his fellow politicians. I am not saying his decisions have been correct. I am saying that we were attacked and as a nation recognized the need to take action. That has left us with a series of further decisions, many of which have guided our country into a place we do not want to be. That means we now must find a way to move forward, not backtracking, to overcome the divisions between us and our enemies, and the divisions within our own country.
Mitt Romney himself said in the last debate that he was not perfect. Why are we still discussing religion here? When are we going to talk about the important issues? Romney has my vote! Go Mitt!                                                                                                  
I do not understand how it has come to the point that we are debating religious doctrine in presidential debates. Does it really matter what religion you believe in or if you belive in one at all. What matters is your values and actions. If people need religion to help guide them fine and if others do not that is fine too. Enough with this religious debate of "my religion is the right one!" It goes against the main doctrines of relgion: tolerance and compassionate all-inclusiveness. Really, the audacity of people judging others in the name of their religion is unconscionable. Let's hope that people look at the issues and character of candidates in this election.
A, sounds cynical. I'm sorry.

Nope. You don't know me at all. Not sour. But that is the perception we have. That is how we are portrayed. Actually, we are some of the most optimistic people around. We believe in the greatness of the individual American to succeed. We seek to remove those barriers keeping people down. Umm, our mantra is "Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach him to fish and he eats for a lifetime". That sums up one of our core conservative principles.

"I'm glad I'm a Republican".

Our supposed "sourness" no doubt comes from knowing the deepth and breadth of the battle we face.

I guess wbhen you are hunched down in the fox hole surrounded by enemy, you will be dour; yet also have an intestinal fortitde to see the battle through to the end and get your men out.
Steve from Idaho -

Your info about spirits being born white or black based on who followed Jesus and who didn't is totally false and wrong. Mormons don't believe that. Mormons also don't believe that God had any physical relationship with Mary. The church has never said anything about that - what a lie!

Anyone who wants to know what Mormons believe can find out from the church's official website:

www.lds.org

All their beliefs are stated there. If you wanted to find out what the Catholics believe, you wouldn't ask a Methodist - you'd ask a Catholic!

Get your info from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (the Mormon church) itself rather than from people who don't know, don't understand or don't respect their beliefs.
Yes Desperate, I am a Christian and would be no matter where I grew up. FYI - I was raised in Atlanta where I was friends with people from many diverse cultural and political backgrounds. I am a Christian not because I have a weakness that needs to be filled, but because I am strong, I am fulfilled and blessed. When I wake up every morning and see the faces of the three most precious gifts I have ever received, I know that it is not by my strength, wisdom, courage or power that I have been blessed, but by that of my God. Thank you for the question, Desperate, as you have afforded me the opportunity to share my joy with you. I do not say any of this self righteously, but knowing that I am no different than anyone else, except that I choose to be covered by His grace and to live out of that abundance!
...That my friend, doesn't enslave me, but rather sets me free!



It blows me away that so many ofthe people on this blog seem to be saying that Huckabee has went after Mitt and his Mormon faith. The only time he speaks of Mormonism and Romney are when he is asked point blank questions which require answers. I have read this interview which is in question, and it was taken out of context. So far, Huckabee has been the most consistent candidate who has not flip-flopped on the issues that are most important to Republicans. And why would anyone assume that the Left media is aiding Huckabee along? Huckabee has desperately struggled to get any airtime on the web, tv, newspaper, etc., because for the longest time people have not considered him a contender. At least not until recently.
Curious in Texas,

The truth is that its all a sham. Every single organized religion is a sad joke fostered onto humanity. I think Jesus would be very sad to see christianity of today. He taught love, he taught humility, he taught compassion. I see very little of those things coming from any religion, but especially any religion of the book.
Kathryn you must be kidding yourself, you write...

"Often there are small discrepencies, whether from misguided information, incomplete information, or otherwise different interpretations. What I call "pink" my daughter calls "hot pink"... which are quite different. Doesn't mean anyone brought their opinion into the matter, it just means the objective facts were reported differently.'

You think the difference between fact and Fox News is the difference between pink and hot pink. YOU NEED TO WAKE UP. please.
If you don't realize that Fox traffics in opinion and Fox news then there is no helping you, and I am really shocked because you said that you were a writer (and also not addicted to fox news) so I figured your journalistic integrity would at least hold you to reason concerning some of the most fundamental and base concepts in journalism.

You must write fiction or childrens books, right? Have you really no idea of basic journalistic concepts as a writer? Or do you write for fox news?
M, I most certainly was taught that growing up, if you search through your Sunday School manuals you will see its still taught (since 1978 they downplay the black angle). The mormon church is a racist organization because they have racism built into their scriptures (POGP).
SATAN is not Lucifer! Satan never was an angel.
"Lucifer" described in the bible was a King of Babylon.
SATAN: Gen 3:1,Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made....WOW God made Satan (serpent) ,5th day most like all the other land beast.
I'm Just reading the bible and not taking anything out of context.
BTW a novel called Dante's inferno (1300's) first claimed the babylonian king "Lucifer" was Satan a Fallen Angel.
Sorry Christians that is the fact, I think Jesus claims he is the bright and morning star not Satan.
www.lds.org and www.Mormon.org are both official websites of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons). They can set you straight on any questions you have about Mormon doctrine so that we can get back to POLITICAL issues!!!
Mike, would you go to scientology's website to get the "truth" about scientology? Why would you expect the LDS website to be truthful about all things Mormon, especially since they have a history of "lying for the lord". Or as one of your GAs says, "somethings truthful aren't useful" (paraphrased from Boyd K. Packer) or your profit (misspelling on purpose) that "I don't know we have have taught that" when talking about your plan of salvation (as god once was, we are now, as god is now, we may become) or him stating that polygamy was never doctrine (all lies).
Desperate-
I was never making an argument for or against Fox News...yes I tune in, but no, I am not a fanatic. I merely said that I get a well-rounded view of the facts regarding the political race by tuning in to a variety of different media sources. The initial question was in regards to the lack of education you profess to find in those of us who have a more conservative view, which in turn you brought in those of us who have a christian view. That has nothing to do with Fox News, which you brought up, my friend.

Back to politics...We are all searching for someone to bring about a positive political change. We are searching for someone who has a vision for the future without being caught up in the blame game for the past. We are all wanting to bring home our troops safely (again, thank you A), we all want to see our country a safer place to raise our families and we all want to keep America a place where people and ideals are free to intermingle. I think we all want a country where we can all be covered by exceptional medical care, regardless of our social dilema, but where we are not all forced to have a 'one size fits all' coverage. We all want to see our economy pull out of the real estate crumble without causing more damage. We all want to rely less on foreign oil and want to encourage the well-being of Earth and her inhabitants. That is what makes this country great. Lets strive for this together and realize that we need to back the candidate who can make this happen. I truly believe Huckabee is just that. I think he realizes where we are and where we want to go and knows that you cannot move forward without respecting where we are and where we have been and the people who will take us there.
Here is some documentation for those mormons claiming that their church doesn't teach the Jesus and Satan are brothers.

"How can Jesus and Lucifer be spirit brothers when their characters and purposes are so utterly opposed?

Jess L. Christensen, “I Have a Question,” Ensign, June 1986, 25–26

Jess L. Christensen, Institute of Religion director at Utah State University, Logan, Utah. On first hearing, the doctrine that Lucifer and our Lord, Jesus Christ, are brothers may seem surprising to some—especially to those unacquainted with latter-day revelations. But both the scriptures and the prophets affirm that Jesus Christ and Lucifer are indeed offspring of our Heavenly Father and, therefore, spirit brothers. Jesus Christ was with the Father from the beginning. Lucifer, too, was an angel “who was in authority in the presence of God,” a “son of the morning.” (See Isa. 14:12; D&C 76:25–27.) Both Jesus and Lucifer were strong leaders with great knowledge and influence. But as the Firstborn of the Father, Jesus was Lucifer’s older brother. (See Col. 1:15; D&C 93:21.)

How could two such great spirits become so totally opposite? The answer lies in the principle of agency, which has existed from all eternity. (See D&C 93:30–31.) Of Lucifer, the scripture says that because of rebellion “he became Satan, yea, even the devil, the father of all lies.” (Moses 4:4.) Note that he was not created evil, but became Satan by his own choice.

When our Father in Heaven presented his plan of salvation, Jesus sustained the plan and his part in it, giving the glory to God, to whom it properly belonged. Lucifer, on the other hand, sought power, honor, and glory only for himself. (See Isa. 14:13–14; Moses 4:1–2.) When his modification of the Father’s plan was rejected, he rebelled against God and was subsequently cast out of heaven with those who had sided with him. (See Rev. 12:7–9; D&C 29:36–37.)

That brothers would make dramatically different choices is not unusual. It has happened time and again, as the scriptures attest: Cain chose to serve Satan; Abel chose to serve God. (See Moses 5:16–18.) Esau “despised his birthright”; Jacob wanted to honor it. (Gen. 25:29–34.) Joseph’s brothers sought to kill him; he sought to preserve them. (Gen. 37:12–24; Gen. 45:3–11.)

It is ironic that the agency with which Lucifer rebelled is the very gift he tried to take from man. His proposal was that all be forced back into God’s presence. (See Moses 4:1, 3.) But the principle of agency is fundamental to the existence and progression of intelligent beings: as we make wise choices, we grow in light and truth. On the other hand, wrong choices—such as the one Satan made—stop progress and can even deny us blessings that we already have. (See D&C 93:30–36.)

In order for us to progress, therefore, we must have the opportunity to choose good or evil. Interestingly, Satan and his angels—those who opposed agency—have become that opposition. As the prophet Lehi taught, “Men are free according to the flesh; and all things are given them which are expedient unto man. And they are free to choose liberty and eternal life, through the great Mediator of all men, or to choose captivity and death, according to the captivity and power of the devil; for he seeketh that all men might be miserable like unto himself.” (2 Ne. 2:27.)

Although the Father has allowed Satan and his angels to tempt mankind, he has given each of us the ability to rise above temptation. (See 1 Cor. 10:13.) He has also given us the great gift of the Atonement.

When the Lord placed enmity between Eve’s children and the devil, Satan was told that he would bruise the heel of Eve’s seed, but her seed would bruise his head. (See Moses 4:21.) President Joseph Fielding Smith explained that “the ‘God of peace,’ who according to the scriptures is to bruise Satan, is Jesus Christ.” (Answers to Gospel Questions, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1957, 1:3.) Satan would bruise the Savior’s heel by leading men to crucify Him. But through his death and resurrection, Christ overcame death for all of us; and through his atonement, he offers each of us a way to escape the eternal ramifications of sin. Thus, Satan’s machinations have been frustrated and eventually he will be judged, bound, and cast into hell forever. (See Rev. 20:1–10; D&C 29:26–29.)

In Hebrew, the word bruise means “to crush or grind.” Therefore, the very heel that was bruised will crush Satan and will help us overcome the world and return to our Father. As we use our agency to choose good over evil, the atonement of Christ prepares the way for us to return to our Father in Heaven.

We can only imagine the sorrow of our Heavenly Father as he watched a loved son incite and lead a rebellion and lose his opportunity for exaltation. But we can also imagine the Father’s love and rejoicing as he welcomed back the beloved son who had valiantly and perfectly fought the battles of life and brought about the great Atonement through his suffering and death."
I agree in a hand up and not a hand out.  I was an apathetic independent post college professional when  GW Bush was elected and not long after made me ask "what the hell is this supposed compassionate conservative doing to our contry".  He has divided the country into rich and poor, red and blue, christian and sinners, patriotic or un-American and for him or against him.  I agree with the limited government principal that the republicans stand for at face value but when my dad was injured to the point where he could no longer work after 30 years I was happy we had the safety net of social security, when my mother in-law had breast cancer last year I was happy we have FMLA so that she would take time off of work without losing her job to get Kemo and radiation treatments (which puts their retirement at risk because of the extreme cost of healthcare in this country).  When I had my two daughters I was also very grateful that I was able to use FMLA to spend a few months with them without fear of losing my job.  In a capitalist world, where the rich have many home field advantages I still think that ANY AMERICAN can do anything if they set their mind to it and can have their own American Dream, whatever that dream may be.  My husband and I both come from poor to middle class families, paid for our own college educations through loans and the military and are living the American Dream.  With the current administration I don't see that American Dream being as available for my children because American Companies in their persuit for another penny to shareholders will sell out the best jobs in this country.  But you are right that anyone not on the Republican side has been pretty depressed (and the republicans have been optimistic) the last 7 years because WE SEE AND UNDERSTAND FULLY what is happenign to our freedoms and future in this great country but for the first time in that many years I'm finally optomistic (and so are most democrats) that a change in leadership will occur and better things are ahead for myself and my children.  You say that your party is the one that says "give a man a fish" but all I've seen of your party is "if you PAY A RICH MAN to buy a Humvee (after Bush preached about Americans being addicted to oil)we'll be dependent upon foreign oil forever and the rich oil tycoons get richer".  Its hypocracy and talking from boths sides of the mouth and I'm SICK AND TIRED OF IT!!! Republicans have stood for three things in my opinion the last seven  years:  Ideology, Greed and Lies
A-
Whatever your opinion is about the current administration, I do not see how your blame on the Republican party is acurate or productive. First of all, glad for you that you could take the FMLA and put it to use. I, however, have three children who have been in full time daycare from the time they were six weeks old because I had no choice but to go back to work in order to keep my job (and food in their mouths). I do not blame GWB or any political party for that. It is as it is. Unfair mind you, but rather than being angry at "someone", I am looking to the future and am optimistic that change can and will occur.
To your point on the divisiveness of GW Bush... I would say that for the past 8 years the Democratic party has made it their mission to divide the country and make sure that everyone is of the opinion that it is the Republicans who have 'ruined' our country so that they will be in full power for the upcoming
term(s). I think that it is that determination and drive for power from those who did not have it that has divided this nation. That is why I do not think that Hillary Clinton is a good choice for our country for the next 8 years. She will definately be a dividing power.
Right on A.
Your comments are inspiring. Your story is inspiring. Republicans are ruining our country and we need to convert the Kathryns of the world so they are no longer Bush apologists.
For the record I think that limited govt is not as important as government that is monitored for waste. Nobody likes pork, but everyone likes police departments and fire departments (socialist programs). We don't need socialism, but the founder of capitalism and our forefathers noted that capitalism would not provide for certain services. Thusly, the public sector is responsible in those instances where private interests are either incapable or uninterested. Sadly, the private sector and HMOs have run health care into the ground and ruined the opportunity that Americans gave them.

Have no fear, we'll boot those liars out. But we need to bring the rest of America (Kathryn) along for the ride. However, arguing against the wall of faith is sometimes an argument not worth having. If the Kathryns of America cannot see how awful the leaders that they elected have performend then they need to be marginalized through ridicule or at least that's what Thomas Jefferson suggests.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.-Jefferson

Some people are way off key in this forum.

My first vote would be for me but sense i'm not running then it would have to be Romney, Obama, hopefully no Clinton.
You know, it is alot easier to figure out who not to vote for then to vote for.
By the way, some people are loose cannons. Use facts but for no other purpose then to confuse the listener. If you want facts go to the source and forget all the hearsay.
Chow
Kathryn,

It's PRODUCTIVE in that I'm trying to make sure that people aren't decieved by the same party who have preached the same message over the last 7 years but whose ACTIONS have repeatedly been different than what they preach.  You can't PREACH family values and then try to do away with or decrease FMLA (which is what Bush and the republicans are trying to do at the behest of business owners before they leave office)without being a hypocrit.  If I'm to believe than any replublican running for office would do things differently then President Bush, then where were they before they ran for president?  I didn't hear any of them saying............hey that's not right or I disagree except for McCain and for him it was a single issue disagreement about torture because it personally affected him.  I can BLAME republicans for shamefully preaching family values and following blindly behind Bush.  I think anyone who believe in family values would support PAID time off for families to spend time with a new infant.  Our children are the future of this country.  Anyone who believes in family values would be for healthcare for all children.  Is it a childs fault he or she gets sick and their parents can't afford health insurance?  I feel for you that you were not able to take more time with your children at infancy as I know that I'm very fortunate and blessed and wouldn't trade those moments for ANYTHING in the world.  It is what it is, but it doesn't HAVE to be that way.  It is true that Hillary is someone whom the republicans HATE (which just doesn't seem Christian AT ALL) and because of that she is divisive.  As unfortunate as that is I do want to see what a female president can do for this country.  I think she will focus on health, education, the middle class and bringing up the standard of living for the working poor (I remember living on mac and cheese from aldis while working a full time job to pay rent and college loans........and it wasn't fun) security WITHIN our countries borders instead of OUTSIDE this countries borders and things that matter TO ME.  Anyone who disagrees with me is FREE TO DO SO, THANK GOD AND BLESS OUR SOLDIERS!!!  
Hi ,I am watching the debate and am amazed that on education nobody had metioned the 50% divorce rate and that maybe judges are to quick to award custody to one parent over another and that that there may be some of the problem?


Hi ,I am watching the debate and am amazed that on trade issue nobody had metioned the buying public decsions on USA made or Imports  maybe People  are to quick to buy imports  over Usa Made  and that that there may be some of the problem "BUY MADE IN THE USA"

Hi ,I am watching the debate and am amazed that no one has called for an end to government perks?
On health care ,One said that government was spose to be made up of "people for the people" my question is why have they gave them selves free health care? they have raised them selves higher than the people they serve in many other ways ,in pay? ,in retirement? , In healthcare cost's? ,In working hours? I think its time for them to all be reduced to the peoples level they are to represent?
Tom -
I think what you are describing is a disgrace and is done by MANY Americans across this country... both republicans and democrats... I don't think anyone should have an appointed right to freedoms and priviledge that is not attainable by all. However, I also disagree with government mandates that create a totally even playing field. That is very close to socialism, don't you think?

To both you and A-
I think we should all have the same opportunities to achieve the same goals as all other Americans, which is what capitalism is about. Unfortunately, there are downsides to everything, but the great thing about our country is that we all have the right and responsibility to hold each other accountable and to be involved in every aspect of our governing, on both the local and national levels. Which is to say Go Huckabee - you have the right and responsibility to proclaim your views/moral stances and ambitions for our country as we all do. Go Hillary, Barack, Mitt, and everyone else. The real responsibility lies with us, the citizens, who MUST responsibly learn to live together, keep each other accountable and realize our role in this government 'by the people, for the people'. And thank God for those who fight for our right to do so.
Why is it that when Ron Paul says he will abolish the IRS he is called crazy, but when Mike Huckabee says he too would abolish the IRS its a non-issue?
A, It's sad you feel that way. Yes, I agree that FMLA has helped many Americans. Being a conservative I can't come down on that for the sake of sounding uncompassionate. Same for Social Security. But I would argue that we can do better than Social Security. Imagine if you dad had invested his Social Security income, for the sake of argument say $5000 a year, into a seperate account which could accrue at 8% vs. the SS 2%. But that is to be debated at another time.

Let me just state that George W. Bush is giving many conservatives running for office much to run against. Sure we are running against the Democrats, but we can also gain political traction distancing ourselves from "Bushie". I am hearing firey speeches from local conservative candidates running for Federal offices. And the tone of the speeches are that we need to return to our core fiscal beliefs.

I am one conservative who is very dissatisfied with 'W'. Sure I like much of what he did, but we could have gotten much more accomplished. After the Transportation Bill last year I called my local representatives and left messages voicing my displeasure. I told Andrew Card when he was here in 2004, that Bush needed to veto some spending bills.

Many Democrats claim their victory in 2006 was a "mandate" for them. They can mis-read it if they want, to their own peril. But the 2006 vote was a revolt from conservatives who were displeased with Bush and the Republican Congress who abandoned our core fiscal principles.

Right now the likely Democratic nominee is going to be Hillary, and I can already see her gameplan to connect our nominee and Bush at the hip. But heck, she sounds allot like Bush also.
Kathryn in Bham,

If you replaced Huckabee's name with Romney's you would have it just about right.

"What is so threatening about Huckabee's .
beliefs/convictions and moral foundation? I don't see him trying to push anything on anyone... the only people trying to push their views/opinions are those who oppose his. I think he is a strong candidate based on much more than his character, which holds fast despite the constant criticism. I am for a candidate who wants to initiate change and direct this country in a positive direction. I am for a candidate who we can trust to take over in a difficult time, be open to progression in foreign and domestic affairs, help us recognize as a country what we can do to move forward and who is not afraid to speak out and take action. We need someone who is not making decisions based on "so and so did this wrong and it's time I right it"... like the democrats are doing. We all know that we are not in a place we want to be right now, a place created by many factors, and we need CHANGE and accountability to turn things around. HUCKABEE IS THE CANDIDATE WHO CAN AND WILL DO THAT!"
  Huckabee's record shows that he struggles with ethics issues. His record shows that he has a "pardon" addiction. He has risen in the polls to quickly for me to take him seriously.  It feels like he is hypnotizing the evangelical crowd with his charisma.  He is a talented story teller.  He feels like a door to door saleman to me.


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