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First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



Did meeting lead to Shaheen ouster?

Posted: Thursday, December 13, 2007 5:32 PM by Mark Murray

From NBC/NJ's Aswini Anburajan
JOHNSTON, IA -- In the spin room after today's debate, Obama adviser David Axelrod said that Obama had told Clinton today that "leadership came from the top" in regards to negative attacks and campaigning.

Axelrod said that the two senators spoke for about 10 minutes today, during which Clinton apologized for the comments made by her New Hampshire co-chair Billy Shaheen, who told the Washington Post that Obama's past cocaine use would make him vulnerable to GOP attacks. "Senator Obama expressed to Senator Clinton it's important for campaigns to send a signal from the top as to what type of campaign they want to run. If you send a signal that negative campaigning is the fun part of campaigns and treat it as a sport, then you are sending a signal down the line that it's all okay. They have to decide if they want to send a different signal and certainly by asking Mr. Shaheen to leave that would be a different signal," Axelrod said.

Axelrod went on to say that leadership in campaigns "flowed from the top down," and Clinton's previous comments that the "fun starts" when candidates begin to attack each other set a tone that allowing negative attacks were okay.

The announcement of Shaheen's resignation came just fifteen to twenty minutes after Axelrod's comments in the spin room. The Obama campaign has benefited from Shaheen's comments in more ways than one -- by 1) showing the Clinton campaign as anxious to tear down their opponents and 2) as a money making tool among their own supporters. David Plouffe, Obama's campaign manager, sent out an email requesting supporters to donate to demonstrate their disapproval at Shaheen.

Shaheen's comments on Obama's past cocaine use, however, also gave reporters an opening to question Obama's campaign about the extent of his past drug use and how they would respond to Republican attacks on the issue. Regarding Obama's past drug use, Axelrod told reporters today that he only used drugs up until age 20, and that Obama had not sold or shared drugs with friends.

He went on to add that the campaign would effectively respond to Republican attacks by being upfront about Obama's past. "Honesty is how you respond to the attacks. He's been very straight forward about this. This isn't some expose of some vault somewhere. This is something he wrote about in a book 12 years ago."

*** UPDATE *** "It is clear that the politics of false attacks and innuendo are being rejected by the voters from New Hampshire and around the country.
Barack Obama is focusing his campaign on the positive change he is going to bring to America as President," said Obama spokesman Bill Burton.

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Pretty bad news for Democrats: Mike Moore will not be running for Senate in Mississippi, pretty much dashing Democratic hopes of getting the seat: http://www.campaigndiaries.com/2007/12/yet-another-recruitment-failure-for.html
I don't think the voters are fooled, they know very well Clinton style politcs of personal attacks...I'm sorry, but it is textbook politics at its best... http://www.enewsreference.wordpress.com
Ok, the minutes of fame in the spotlight is over. The gender card is now history! But the starlet is like a bad movie.

The Clinton shack just got hit by another wrecking ball! Who is the candidate? The spin master got his head chopped off! Are the facts just speeches written by those who are better qualified?

Clinton has failed the dress rehearsal. Seeing the debates are for the voter to see the candidate up close. Clinton forgot her lines, Changes the script to suit her hidden agenda's. Policy changes like one changes their underware. One is seeing the Clinton camp is supported by criminals, staff spinners no better than a failed fifth grader. The common person now understands Clinton resides only on conjecture. Clinton has a public agenda and a hidden agenda. Like the Bushes comleted their quest to destroy Iraq! The Clinton era destroyed a large part of national infrastructure, military unity, labor, industrial. Yet they were not without help from a failed congress.

So you have a very complicated decison, Vote for a failed professional liar, continued conjecture, more invention to take the remaining dollar in your wallet or four more years of living their dreams, Not Yours!

Think about it  - Hillary just fired her campaign manager in a state she has to win if she does not win Iowa !! If she loses NH .....what happens to SC ??

She is not in trouble ....yeah right !!

The "Queen of Mean" has out smarted herself once more !!

By attacking Obama in such petty ways, she has hurt herself in the general election (if nominated) as well !! All the Republicans need to do is sit back and use the "Obama high road strategy" with her and just challenge her "experience" and harp on "the records"......THE REPUBLICANS WILL HAVE 2008 MADE IN THE SHADE !!  

She is more "unelectable" than Obama !!  

Wake up Democrats !!

Gooooo Barrack !!  
This story is SO over.  With Senator Clinton's apology and the resignation of her campaign co-chair who made the comments, there is nothing left to the story.  It is time to start talking about issues that are important to the American people.
The FUN began just after the Philly Pile On by Edwards and Obama. They were the first to go negative and anything from the Clinton campaign will be like child's play compared to the republican dirty tricks crowd. When Karl Rove starts giving Barak advice on how to beat Hillary it means he thinks Barak will be easier to beat.  Look at the successful attack on Harold Ford in 06. The republicans have already conceded the black vote in the south to the democrats. What they fear is the high number of republican women who will vote for Hillary because she is a woman.  
I thought his own stupidity lead to his ouster...the fact of the matter is Afro-Americans make of 50% of Primary voters in Southern state...this could've sent a bad message... http://www.enewsreference.wordpress.com
This is politics guys.  Nothing is below the belt anymore.  I'm not say it should be that way just that's the way it is and it's not an unfair question. Personally I think if the youth of today and tomorrow were told by a president who at least knew a little of what drugs were like then maybe they'd listen when somebody told them to just stay away from them rather than having someone like Nancy Reagan saying just say no.  I'm dissapointed that even Bill Clinton wouldn't cop to getting high.  But then again most people will do or say anything to get elected to public office which brings us back to the true nature of politics. It's not about telling the truth, it's about getting elected because they all see it as the end justifies the means.  

Where I come from saying you did drugs til you were twenty and you never shared them with your friends doesn't make you honest it makes you an asshole because you didn't share your drugs with your friends...Nobody does coke by themselves until they've graduated to the junkie level.  That's a statement every bit as unbelievable as "I didn't inhale."  Don't be fooled....He just another politician.  He's as calculated and coniving as all the rest.  Nice guys don't get elected president of anything except president of the audio visual club in high school.

ps....the word is "moot"
Hillary is NOT the "Queen of Mean."

She is Lady McBill.  As in the quote regarding Monica's dress, "Out.  Out.  Damn spot."

I am going to try to never again vote for an alcoholic.  I know this sounds discriminatory, but just because George and Dick (or Bill and Ted or possibly John) claim they have stopped drinking, doesn't mean they have they same Lack of Judgement or tendency to Deny The Truth that they had when they WERE drinking.  (Am I the only one who see't the pattern?)  And I will NOT vote for an Enabler like Hillary whose main motive in life is accumulating power by riding on her husband's coat tails regardless of who he is sleeping with.

What is scary, dear fools (and I voted for Clinton and the current Bush) is that my comments are not opinion but statements of fact.

We have been suckered.  (Insert PT Barnum quote here.)


Hillary is NOT the "Queen of Mean."

She is Lady McBill.  As in the quote regarding Monica's dress, "Out.  Out.  Damn spot."

I am going to try to never again vote for an alcoholic.  I know this sounds discriminatory, but just because George and Dick (or Bill and Ted or possibly John) claim they have stopped drinking, doesn't mean they have they same Lack of Judgment or tendency to Deny The Truth that they had when they WERE drinking.  (Am I the only one who sees the pattern?)  And I will NOT vote for an Enabler like Hillary whose main motive in life is accumulating power by riding on her husband's coat tails regardless of who he is sleeping with.

What is scary, dear fools (and I voted for Clinton and the current Bush) is that my comments are not opinion but statements of fact.

We have been suckered.  (Insert PT Barnum quote here.)
I used to think that I'd vote for Obama if Hillary didn't get the nomination, but after this "leadership comes from the top Hillary" - I think I'll pass. He sounds like an emotional mushy sad sack.
I like Obama more and more every day.  He's real.  He's smart and honest.
Obama is an angel compared to Hillary and all the immoral things she has done.  She has been the darling of the media.  But, just wait until she has to go up against the Republician nomine, it will hit the fan and she will not have a chance.  Biden is the best person for the Democrats.

Peoples attention spans may be short, but, impressions last.  America is getting the impression that Hillary is MEAN.
A few weeks back, Barack was attacking Hilary as "lacking in truthfulness" - which really meant he's calling her a liar. Now that he's in good shape in some polls in Iowa, he's lecturing Hilary about "sending a signal from the top" about negative campaigning and about recent commments regarding his past drug use.

Barack calls Hilary a liar... a Clinton campaign official comments about Barack's past drug use as a liability... Barack cries foul... Something's not right here.
I'm not sure the Clinton/Obama spats help either candidate, no matter what the issue or source. Of the top three, only Edwards has remained largely above the fray. Often loosing an election (which Edwards did as the 2004 VP candidate), teaches you something about winning. All this back biting and finger pointing among campaign staff achieves nothing.

Edwards was my initial preference for the 2008 Democratic presidential nomination. For a time after announcing Elizabeth's cancer, he was distracted and off message. I began to question whether Edwards was the right choice. However, he has regained his confidence, is fully back on message, and seems the adult among the three.

I hope Iowans give him one final look. If they do, the pundits may be in for a surprize come January 3.
I like Obama more and more every day.  He's real.  He's smart and honest.
You democrats are falling for it again.  You will snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.  Liberals like obama with liberal records do not do well in national elections.  You better think twice, folks.  Drug use is of no consequence, but liberal records are.  And if you think there is no underlying reason for the media's lovefest with Obama.. think again. The media is corporate controlled, and corporations favor republicans. There is a reason Fox, MSNBC, and all the other talking head stations are piling it on Clinton.   The republicans know Obama's record would be easier to beat that Clinton, Biden's or even Richardson's.  If the dems choose a liberal, they will be making a HUGE mistake. IMHO
I think it truly funny that people are accusing Edwards of "Making Money off from Class Action lawsuits Against Big Corporations"  How can they be so naive??  Did the corporations in question Not Break The Law??  Were they not found guilty in a court of law?? If so then it is the Corporation's own fault for doing whatever it was that was illegal that got them  sued in the first place, so Mr. John Edwards is and has been a fighter against corporate criminal wrongdoing for a long time, to accuse him of making his money doing the right thing is LUDICROUS.  I feel that these right wingers that think it is so wrong to punish corporations for actual crimes against people are in fact the problem: Corporations have to be responsible for their actions and protecting them against lawsuits when they are clearly breaking the law is just the same as aiding and abetting a bank robber.  So why are so many Republicans protecting a criminal class of corporate CEO's??  Because some of their buddies ARE those CEO's and are holding fat positions open Just For Them when they retire from 'politics' and go into the 'Private Sector'.  That is sure what it looks like from here on the street!!

So I laugh every time I see someone point out the fact that Edwards made money from class action suits against big corporations:  GOOD FOR HIM!!!
one thing i am trying to grasp. so many of you have the need to hate obama. some of you hate edwards. some of you hate hillary.

in past elections and administrations you have had candidates that have used drugs and alcohol at an age older than obama's(high school). clinton and bush. why is this issue of drugs in high school such a focul point for some you. is it emotional dislike and hate?

edwards was invested in a hedge fund. this is true. is there something wrong with growing your investment? edwards gave that investment up when the media tried to portray it as more than it was. i wouldn't have given up the investment at all. it was his money not public money. to me it is the same as you buying bonds, cd's or maintaining a portfolio.

some people here make up stuff. it is ugly and untrue. some of you seem to enjoy keeping lies, rumors and slander flowing. i listen to some points that are made and they are the weakest, some absolutely trivial points to make.

to try and grow a high school indiscretion into a major character issue is slimy and shows a lack of concern for the actual issues.

obama, edwards, hillary nor anyone else deserves the poison that is being posted here. if it is true that is one thing. some of you are just hating because it isn't your candidate. i guess going negative is fun for some of you.
All I would like to know is what happened in all those missing years of Obama's life.  Why doesn't he write a pamplet stating that in year ???? age 5 - I was ... age 6 . . .  where did I go to school in these diffrent foreign counjtries?  So many questions, for someone who was unknown to the public (except Illinois) before 2008.
saying a candidate is not answering questions or being straight forward is not negative. that is a truth. if any candidate avoids a question or run around it they should be called on it. so claiming that obama or edwards were the first to go negative is wrong.

going negative is slandering a person. lieing on them in a way that could be personally damaging. attacking someones family. reaching back in childhood to convert adolescent misjudgement into charachter assaults. that is negative campaigning.

if we are going to hit these candidates when they screw up let's at least keep it truthful and defined to what is actually happening.
bottom line here folks, Barak is untested...that's the real point...all he has had to face on the national level is Alan Keyes...gimme a break...if the Obama campaign is this thin skinned what im the world are they going to do when the full barrage of the Republican machine comes at him...a one term senator who has never battled the Republicans on the national scene...the stakes are very high in this election for the Democrats...we cannot take the chance with another person going into the Presidency with on the job training...Obama has a great future ahead, in fact, I think he may be best suited for the Supreme Court, he would be amazing...but let's get real...it is not his time just yet...he needs more experience on the national level...that is the simple truth
the assumption that republican women are going to vote for hillary because she is a woman is so way out of touch with the conservative base. the republican women hate hillary. this is a well known and proven fact. evry poll barring none shows that hillary is so strongly disliked in the conservative arena that she would be like adding fuel to a small fire if she won the nomination for the dem's.

as to karl rove. he is probaly one of the smartest and keen minds in republican and conservative politics. he would love nothing more than to avert attention away from hillary to seem as if he is supporting obama(or helping) so that dem's will look at obama unfavorably. polls show and comments made by republicans and the conservative base may possibly be drawn away from the repub base(in small numbers) if obama wins the nomination. Independents would definitely give him a substantial backing.

hillary would bring out conservatives and the gop base unlike anything we have seen. her nomination would undo all the work pres. bush has done to put the pres. election in dem's hand with his unconstitutinal administration.

the gop would have a big problem beating edwards or obama because there is no dirt to cling to. as far as being tough enough or experienced enough i would say to the naysayers that any candidate that can beat the clinton political machine can beat the gop. no doubt.  
he wasn't 20. he was in high school. facts getting twisted in order to make your case.
I'm somewhat relieved that Hillary is showing her true colors as a monster with no agenda except discrediting her competition.  And if I hear "The American People know where I stand" substituted for an actual statement of WHERE SHE STANDS one more time I'm going to scream.
it amazes me that obama has made his point on issue after issue and some of you are so busy hating him for a reason that you can truthfully say why to yourself that you can't hear him. he is the only one to put a health plan forward that can be given public scrutiny. hillary has said i am going to mandate and convene a comittee to come up with a bipartisan solution(saying nothing). oh yeah, finally said in iowa debate will agressively pursue affordability(stolen from obama). edwards has just said he would mandate healthcare.

i can see where each candidate has avoided an issue. my question is if you are hating someone you don't know simply because they are in opposition to who you presently support how can you hear enough of what is being said to make an intelligent decision?
Ace, perhaps you should check and see how many republican women voted in two different elections for Hillary in New York before you make such statements...in fact, don't be surprised to start seeing signs "Republicans for Clinton"  they were there for Bill, and they will be back for Hill...
he didn't say untruthful. he said disingenuous. has a total different meaning. this word isn't calling a person a liar. look it up.

mushy- a true inability to recognize leadership that would bring a country together. bush has been fighting a making the hole deeper for years. not mushy but masterful judgement and leadership. i think other candidates would have approached it the same.

if you want someone to go to washington looking for a fight then you may as well give bush a third term because nothing is going to change.

be strong when you need, fight win you must, but negotiate and lead first.
I still don't get it.  Why is Shaheen's comment sleaze?  Obama admits to a group of high school students that he did drugs.  Shaheen basically says the Republicans are going to have a field day with this if Obama's the democratic nominee.  (Romney in fact has already made issue of Obama's past drug use.)  How is this any different than all the dems saying Hillary is divisive and the Republicans are going to be rabid dogs if she gets the nomination?

Obama is exploiting this issue.  He's now asking people to contribute to his campaign to show Hillary that negative campaiging doesn't work.  This is absurd.  The voters are being played for fools.  I'm not a Hillary supporter. I just think it's ridiculous that all these Obama supporters are claiming foul when for the last 6 months their whole mantra has been -- don't vote for Hillary, the Republicans will have a field day with her.  What a bunch of hypocrites.
Ace:

Let's look up disingenuous in the thesaurus, shall we?

Main Entry:   disingenuous
Part of Speech:   adjective
Definition:   insincere
Synonyms:   artful, cunning, deceitful, designing, dishonest, duplicitous, false, feigned, foxy, guileful, indirect, insidious, left-handed, oblique, shifty*, sly, tricky, two-faced*, uncandid, underhanded, unfair, unfrank, wily


No, he didn't say the word liar or the word untruthful.  But it's as clear as day that is what the word disingenuous stands for.  Deceitful?  Dishonest?  Duplicituous?  

Now, how exactly does that have a totally different meaning from "untruthful"?
raf, you have just hit the nail on the head...for months Obama and Edwards have been calling Hillary a liar and as you say stating that she is devisive and cannot be elected, they have had the MSM, especially MSNBC and FOX repeating those lines for them over and over, all the republicans have taken shots at her...and they try to 'castrate' her by saying that if she attacks back or stands up for herself it backfires or doesn't look good...the anti-Hillary crowd wants it both ways...you have Joe Trippi quoted as saying, "they are going to kick her ---!" and everyone attacking her and she's supposed to just stand there...sorry, she's a 21st century woman and she is going to stand up for herself and fight back...I find it very ironic that the only people using the 'gender card' are the men

and you are correct, for someone so offended, Barak didn't waste any time finding a way to capitalize on the issue
Obama couldn't be so offended if he plans to call on Sen. Clinton for help once in office, or was that also a lie?

Edwards does best versus all Republicants in head-to-head polls. I thought winning was the objective . . .
I fail to understand the lovefest between Obama and the media. I wish the media asks tough question from all the candidates not just from Hillary.

If Obama smoked cocaine, there is nothing  wrong in  discussing that. Admitting in a book written many years ago does not justify the wrongdoing. There are millions of college age kids who do not smoke cocaine, but those who do smoke must realize that there are consequences and not rewards. Just like being a C student is not something to brag about Mr. Bush, but smoking dope? come ooon! When Bill Clinton said he did not inhale, the media after 15 years untill this day has not stopped ridiculing that. But heaven's forbid, if someone talks about cocaine user Obama. I think media and particularly the debate moderators have totally failed to do their job.

Whether Obama was a muslim or not, that should not matter. After all the newly elected governor of Luisiana, Bobby Jindal converted from Hinduism to Chritianity and he openly admitted it. Once again such issues should be openely discussed without prejudice.

We must understand that all the canidates are politicians too. None of them is holier than thou, not Obama, not McCain, not even Biden for whom I have great admiration. Obama was lucky enough to find Edwards to do most of his dirty work. Yet if we recall it was Obama and Edwards and not Hillary who ran the negative campaign until Vegas debate. In fact they don't seem to miss an opportunity even today, but if someone from Hillary's campaign said something negative, the entire media goes after them. Some fairness! Alas, there are no more debates.

I truly do not want the media to choose the presidents for us. They have done enough harm by helping us choose Bush twice. Look what it did to our nation. Media business is a multitude of big corporations and they are driven to make money like any other corporation and therefore RATING is important to them. I hope I have not offended too many folks.
Shotti





I fail to understand the lovefest between Obama and the media. I wish the media asks tough question from all the candidates not just from Hillary.

If Obama smoked cocaine, there is nothing  wrong in  discussing that. Admitting in a book written many years ago does not justify the wrongdoing. There are millions of college age kids who do not smoke cocaine, but those who do smoke must realize that there are consequences and not rewards. Just like being a C student is not something to brag about Mr. Bush, but smoking dope? come ooon! When Bill Clinton said he did not inhale, the media after 15 years untill this day has not stopped ridiculing that. But heaven's forbid, if someone talks about cocaine user Obama. I think media and particularly the debate moderators have totally failed to do their job.

Whether Obama was a muslim or not, that should not matter. After all the newly elected governor of Luisiana, Bobby Jindal converted from Hinduism to Chritianity and he openly admitted it. Once again such issues should be openely discussed without prejudice.

We must understand that all the canidates are politicians too. None of them is holier than thou, not Obama, not McCain, not even Biden for whom I have great admiration. Obama was lucky enough to find Edwards to do most of his dirty work. Yet if we recall it was Obama and Edwards and not Hillary who ran the negative campaign until Vegas debate. In fact they don't seem to miss an opportunity even today, but if someone from Hillary's campaign said something negative, the entire media goes after them. Some fairness! Alas, there are no more debates.

I truly do not want the media to choose the presidents for us. They have done enough harm by helping us choose Bush twice. Look what it did to our nation. Media business is a multitude of big corporations and they are driven to make money like any other corporation and therefore RATING is important to them. I hope I have not offended too many folks.
Shotti





I fail to understand the lovefest between Obama and the media. I wish the media asks tough question from all the candidates not just from Hillary.

If Obama smoked cocaine, there is nothing  wrong in  discussing that. Admitting in a book written many years ago does not justify the wrongdoing. There are millions of college age kids who do not smoke cocaine, but those who do smoke must realize that there are consequences and not rewards. Just like being a C student is not something to brag about Mr. Bush, but smoking dope? come ooon! MR. OBAMA IS BEING REWRDED FOR SMOKING COCAINE. When Bill Clinton said he did not inhale, the media after 15 years untill this day has not stopped ridiculing him. But heaven's forbid, if someone talks about cocaine user Obama. I think media and particularly the debate moderators have totally failed to do their job.

Whether Obama was a muslim or not, that should not matter. After all the newly elected governor of Luisiana, Bobby Jindal converted from Hinduism to Chritianity and he openly admitted it. Once again such issues should be openely discussed without prejudice.

We must understand that all the canidates are politicians too. None of them is holier than thou, not Obama, not McCain, not even Biden for whom I have great admiration. Obama was lucky enough to find Edwards to do most of his dirty work. Yet if we recall it was Obama and Edwards and not Hillary who ran the negative campaign until Vegas debate. In fact they don't seem to miss an opportunity even today, but if someone from Hillary's campaign said something negative, the entire media goes after them. Some fairness! Alas, there are no more debates.

I truly do not want the media to choose the presidents for us. They have done enough harm by helping us choose Bush twice. Look what it did to our nation. Media business is a multitude of big corporations and they are driven to make money like any other corporation and therefore RATING is important to them. I am still very confident Hillary will win the nomination.
Shotti





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Gary-I agree with your first point. I love how Obama bashes the Clinton years - yet uses so many of his advisors.

Your second point, however, I would disagree with. I am always amazed how they put together these head to heads prior to the nomininatio - they aren't terribly accurate.
I am amazed by the amount of people who act so shocked with mudslinging in a campaign....and act that it is new. It isn't going to change.

"Hoping" for it to be differently is a crock.
I have worked in many campaigns for over 20 years, I assure you that Billy Shaheen's comments were no accident. He was a sacrificial lamb in Hillary's Machiavellian campaign. How much do you want to bet he gets a cushy job in her administration?

Don't ever forget how Hillay Clinton went on 60 minutes and sat there while her husband called Gennifer Flower's claims "false," knowing darn well that wasn't true as we all came to discover years later when he admitted the affair in a deposition. Bill and Hillary Clinton are liars. I am a Democrat but I have had quite enough of the Clintons and I would prefer they just fade away into the sunset. They are single handedly responsible for Al Gore having such a difficult campaign in 2000, resulting in 8 years of George W. Bush. Are we going to allow them to destroy our party again?
I am amazed by the amount of people who act so shocked with mudslinging in a campaign....and act that it is new. It isn't going to change.

-- Sean

--------

The most shocked is Hillary. She thought she was being coronated. Turns out she's in a dog-fight.
Ace, perhaps you should check and see how many republican women voted in two different elections for Hillary in New York before you make such statements...in fact, don't be surprised to start seeing signs "Republicans for Clinton"  they were there for Bill, and they will be back for Hill...

S (Sent Friday, December 14, 2007 10:59 AM)


S, An N.Y. republican is totally different from a republican from the south or Iowa.


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