ABOUT FIRST READ

First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



Oh-eight (D): New electability numbers

Posted: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 9:13 AM by Mark Murray
Filed Under:

USA Today writes up the new USA Today/Gallup poll: “Clinton is backed by 45% of Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents, up 6 percentage points from a poll taken two weeks earlier that showed her standing eroding… Obama is at 27%, up 3 points, and former North Carolina senator John Edwards is third at 15%.”

VIDEO: NBC's Political Director Chuck Todd offers his first read on who the latest polls show as being most capable of winning the presidency for their political party.

“In hypothetical matchups for the general presidential election, Clinton and Obama each led Giuliani, former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee and Romney, although at times narrowly. Obama was somewhat stronger, besting Giuliani by 6 points, Huckabee by 11 and Romney by 18. Clinton had an edge of 1 point over Giuliani, 9 points over Huckabee and 6 points over Romney.

BIDEN: The Union Leader followed Biden around the state and profiled him. “Ask the average voter what he or she thinks of Biden, and you're likely to get one of two responses: ‘Who's he?’ or ‘He'd make a great secretary of state.’ The latter seems to irk Biden even more than the former. ‘I'm not going to be secretary of state. Don't say that,’ he pleaded with one voter at a recent campaign stop on the Seacoast. ‘In no administration would I accept the position of secretary of state.’”

In a phone call yesterday, NBC’s Ken Strickland notes, Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman -- and presidential candidate -- Joe Biden told Pakistan President Musharraf to "return Pakistan to the democratic path" by lifting restrictions on the press, restoring an independent judiciary, and ensuring free and fair January elections.

CLINTON: The “personal touches” were on display for Clinton in Iowa yesterday, the Des Moines Register writes. “Clinton's staff believes there's little doubt among Iowans that the New York senator has the strength to lead. But proof that the former first lady turns off a significant number of Iowans is easily found in the most recent Iowa Poll. Clinton was seen as the most "negative" and "ego-driven" of all the Democratic candidates. And 30 percent of likely Democratic caucusgoers viewed her unfavorably.”

The New York Daily News: “With her aura of inevitability shattered, and nothing to show for a spate of negative campaigning last week, Clinton’s presidential campaign is now trying to melt voters’ hearts.”

Per NBC/NJ's Athena Jones, Hillary Clinton told an audience in eastern Iowa on Monday that anyone who had been on the national scene as long as she has is bound to end up with a lot of detractors and said any Democratic nominee would have “high negatives” very quickly. She was speaking in response to a question from a man who said he knew a lot of people who for some reason didn’t like Clinton and asked how she could win over those voters.

"You know, there are people who would never vote for me. It breaks my heart, but that is true and that don’t like me, although they’ve never met me. But you know, I’ve got to tell you that if you’ve been fighting for the causes you believe in and taking on tough special interests as long as I have, you’re going to get beat up. And anybody who has done, or anybody who’s been as a Democrat on the national scene as long as I have is going to end up with a lot of people who have been convinced that there is something that shouldn’t be liked or approved… What I have found is that campaigning and talking about real issues and making your case to people actually   does change opinions.”

This isn’t the first time in recent weeks, Jones notes, that Clinton has had to tackle such a question. Clinton also talked about the some in the media having their own reasons for criticizing her. "Now there are some people who will never agree with me. They’re ideologically opposed to me; I’m far more progressive than they wish to be. They have commercial reasons. You know, we joke a lot about some of the folks, the talking heads on radio and TV, you know if the ratings dip a little bit, well, you know they’ve got a hard core that always responds to going after me, so they can make some money off of me.” (Our question, though: At what point should Clinton stop talking about why she appears to be more polarizing than her foes? Does talking about it help or remind voters of the issue?)

Interestingly, Al Sharpton had to cancel his trip South Carolina yesterday and never did meet with Bill Clinton as planned. Instead, the two talked by phone. The New York Times: "The talk followed by just days The Philadelphia Inquirer’s publishing an account of a conversation, secretly taped by the F.B.I., in which Mr. Sharpton appeared to promise a Philadelphia fund-raiser some help on a business deal in return for a five-figure contribution to the 2004 Sharpton campaign. Mr. Sharpton said in an interview Monday that there had been no quid pro quo involved, and pointed to his talk with Mr. Clinton as a sign of his innocence."

The change in strategy to focus on Clinton's softer side may seem contrived to some cynics, but the campaign is getting the press coverage it wanted. The LA Times’ headline: "Supporters describe Clinton's softer side."  Subhead: "A Web video, 'The Hillary I Know,' is part of a larger effort to lower the Democratic presidential candidate's unfavorable ratings."

The New York Daily News takes a look at the pressure Mark Penn is feeling right now, and gets Penn to say he's not worried about being tossed out in a shakeup.

Politico's Ben Smith, himself a veteran of covering the Clinton campaign team in its New York days, looks at that history and finds that Howard Wolfson has won out over Penn in this latest Clinton strategic message shift.

So was Bob Kerrey being Bob Kerrey with his compliment of Obama about his Muslim heritage or was there something more sinister behind his decision to call Obama by all three of his names? Clinton was asked about it yesterday. “In a meeting with the Quad-City Times editorial board, Clinton said Kerrey’s use of Obama’s full name was nothing more than part of a compliment. ‘I think the remarks were very positive,’ Clinton said. ‘I know Bob. He was being very complimentary of Sen. Obama. He was making a point that Sen. Obama makes himself all the time, that because of his upbringing and his heritage he is, in his view, very well suited to communicate with the rest of the world. And he has just said himself that he wants to have a particular outreach to the Islamic world. So I think Sen. Kerrey was being, you know, very generous in what he said.”

But then this? The Huffington Post: “Kerrey … said during a television appearance on Monday that her primary opponent, Sen, Barack Obama, attended a ‘secular madrassa’ as a child… ‘I've watched the blogs try to say that you can't trust [Obama] because he spent a little bit of time in a secular madrassa,’ the Nebraska Democrat said on the Situation Room with John King. ‘I feel quite opposite. I think it's a tremendous strength whether he's in the United States Senate or whether he's in the White House.’”

EDWARDS: The candidate's apparent momentum in Iowa is starting to get more notice.

The man who is the coverboy of the Washington Post style section, David Yepsen, says not to rule out a surge by either Edwards or Thompson.

The Edwards campaign today has unveiled a faux movie trailer urging Iowa Democrats to caucus for him on January 3.

OBAMA: Obama is up with a new direct mail piece in New Hampshire that goes after Clinton for attacking his health-care plan and uses clips from reporters. The piece is done in such a way as to appear he's defending himself from Clinton's attacks. Is it negative or a response?

Obama begins airing in South Carolina the “Chances I Had” TV ad he’s run in other states.

The New York Times’ David Brooks takes a look at the two Dem front-runners, and suggests that Obama would make the better president. "If Clinton were running against Obama for Senate, it would be easy to choose between them. But they are running for president, and the presidency requires a different set of qualities. Presidents are buffeted by sycophancy, criticism and betrayal. They must improvise amid a thousand fluid crises. They’re isolated and also exposed, puffed up on the outside and hollowed out within. With the presidency, character and self-knowledge matter more than even experience. There are reasons to think that, among Democrats, Obama is better prepared for this madness."

More: "What Bill Clinton said on ‘The Charlie Rose Show’ is right: picking Obama is a roll of the dice. Sometimes he seems more concerned with process than results. But for Democrats, there’s a roll of the dice either way. The presidency is a bacterium. It finds the open wounds in the people who hold it. It infects them, and the resulting scandals infect the presidency and the country. The person with the fewest wounds usually does best in the White House, and is best for the country."

One group of folks where Obama's come up short, as the AP notes, is in union support.

The unnamed Barack Obama bus tour winds its way back to Des Moines today from Sioux City, NBC/NJ’s Aswini Anburajan notes. There, Obama will hold a foreign policy forum in Des Moines before heading to New Hampshire. The campaign has visited 23 cities in 22 counties over the past six days, connecting with a few thousand voters. He ended the day with a rally in Sioux City at the Orpheum Theater, drawing a crowd of at least 800 people. 

Aside from Obama jabbing Edwards yesterday, there was little "news" to report. Obama went from one small town hall to the next meeting with crowds of around two hundred or more people in four different cities, with the same message of hope, change and caucusing for him.

RICHARDSON: Per the campaign, the New Mexico governor will use the last several days until the Iowa caucuses to make Iraq the “centerpiece” of his closing argument. Indeed, “At a campaign stop in Mount Vernon …, Richardson said ending the war is the ‘lynchpin for restoring the American dream,’” Radio Iowa reports. “Richardson criticized other candidates for starting to emphasize domestic issues and Richardson also criticized the news media for shifting focus away from the war.”

The Des Moines Register adds, “Quickly ending the Iraq war is the key to repairing political damage caused by the conflict and restoring the American Dream, the New Mexico governor told about 200 people Monday at Cornell College. ‘The day after I take the oath of office, and pledge to protect the Constitution of this country, I am going to tell our troops in Iraq: “You have served magnificently. Now you are coming home.”’”

MAIN PAGE

Email this EMAIL THIS

Comments

Hillary's experience is a track record of failures during her husband's term and refusal to admit when she's been wrong on issues like Iraq . She also repeated the same mistake with the Kyl-Lieberman amendment. We don't need another president with a track record of failure and cold pig-headed stubbornness. In the last campaign days she is now "acting" like she is a softer person.

Obama has been both successful in his legislative career -- a career longer than either Clinton or Edwards -- and able to admit and learn from those times when he's made mistakes. That's the kind of experience, honest, and judgement we need. We are where we are now not because of Bush's lack of experience - but because of his vision. We need new vision.

And if experience is your thing, Obama has that too:

- Senate Foreign relations committee

- Homeland Security committee

- Veterans affairs

- 10 years constitution law professor

- grassroots organizer

- State Senate

- US Senate
If this were an actual democracy and people got to choose, or should I say, people were allowed by the MSM to be educated equally about the candidates, Nobody could touch Kucinnich.  He's always right.  Oh sure, he's seen U.F.O.'s, but that's nothing compared to the vast mounds of Clinton dirt that could be thrown around.  

So, you know, you people can sit here and talk about these candidates as if you formed opinions based in facts and observations and that these candidates haven't been chosen for you by the very moguls that control these websites and these blogs that we write on, but who are you kidding?  Are you even kidding yourselves?  We haven't been given much of a choice in this day and age of "fair and balanced" news coverage, have we?  I just wish Fox News would pick wich GOP candidate they want to overglorify, so we knew who people like Jerry from Corpus Christi were going to pick already.
Please Iowa, make Joe Biden your first choice!!!
Amy B Portland, ME - I agree with you on Edwards and Obama. Edwards is the very man we need as President right now whereas Obama would make a very good President. I also like Biden. I cannot stand Clinton and would rather vote Bush a third term than cast a vote for her.
If we can get Dodd, richardson, and the rest of the tier2s to drop out and consolidate behind Biden, then we have a real shot.

Biden will appeal to conservatives - he's the most electable of the bunch;
November is still a long ways away. None of these candidates are addressing issues as difficult we will face in the next few years, from monetary policy to oil shortages and high eneregy prices (Hey spoiled Americans, learn to turn the lights off once in a while you pigs!) and only one candidate has addressed these issues with consistency in message and a historical vote and that's Ron Paul Stop ignoring the man and listen to his message, he's not a crackpot, our Government and the Republican Party has been idealogically kidnapped and the only way you will know more about this man and what he stands for is to check out YouTube and do a search under Ron Paul, or just Google him. He set new records this last quarter and you will wonder who he is when he starts take voter mindshare away from the flip floppers and liars that lead the polls.
If not Ron Paul then Joseph Biden. Clinton and Obama will crash and burn. Giuliani is a total flake, Romney a total liar, and Huckabee is just a war mongering panderer, then there's that Edwards dude that is bound to have a boney time-bomb in his closet, and McCain who has lost his marbles. Biden I can live with, but if we're to really make a change make it for the better and vote Ron Paul in the primaries at least to force the debate.
Democrats and America, PLEASE wake up. Be rational and objective this time. Consider the situation going on in this country and the rest of the World, from terrorism, economy and international relations (and among nations at large. We need a person to be president in this Great country U.S.A. who is ready on Day 1, who had overcome the Republican Destroyer Machine for years(and won and nothing new now that they can accuse), who has no history of DUI, use of illegal drugs, gambling, extra marital affair and (smoking, the least, this can waste time when one is working. A person who is focused to do great things in her life since she was a child and has been consistent about it. A person who has been so strong in her convictions and boldly confronts anything that is in her way,be it real or imagined(negative accusations about her).
HILLARY IS THE BEST AND GREATEST CANDIDATE FOR THE US PRESIDENCY.
VOTE FOR HILLARY FOR A REAL CHANGE IN THIS COUNTRY...
Well am I glad to see Chuck Todd is finally telling some facts instead of wallowing around with Billary.
The facts are that Sen. Obama is a winning factor over all the leading Republicans and Hillary barely is getting any victories !!!!
This comment from Biden, should really make his supporters to think twice.  I don't think any American who wants support for president, should deny serving in a lesser position if that is what would be best for the country.  I realize he's already served many years as a Senator, and that Secretary of State is a more demanding job.  But if you are running for the most demanding job because you believe you are the best on foreign policy, then to not accept the Secretary of State job when you lose (is a sore losers position).
The White House makes policy, not the SoS. Biden knows what to do - he's not going to be somebody else's foreign policy manager a la Colin Powell.  Look where it got Powell - a White House spin meister in front of the United Nations.  Shame!!!SoS - a glorified foreign policy manager for the POTUS!! Why would that fit Biden??? He's knows 10 times more about foreign policy than any of the other candidates so why would he want to "take orders' from them as their SoS?  Come on people!  Wake up and deal with reality. At this point in history, after the debacle created by Bush and Cheney, we need the absolute BEST foreign policy person in the White House - not at the State Department!  And since most folks - at least on the Democratic side - agree that Biden is that person, he needs to be the nominnee. Nuff said!
Jerry - I think it doesn't help when the media keeps hyping certain candidates and downplaying the other candidates. I'm tired of hearing about Obama vs. Hillary. Just as I'm sick of hearing about Romney vs. Huckabee vs. Guiliani. I'd like to hear all the other candidates. And, yes, from BOTH parties!  See, I'm an independent. I vote for the person, not the party. I've been reading the candidates'websites to find their stand on issues. I would like to hear more from Biden as well as Ron Paul. But there seems to be a media ban on them. So it doesn't surprise me when people don't know who Biden is. The other thing that bothers me is this issue about the candidates' religion. Are we voting for PASTOR of the United States or PRESIDENT of the United States? Whatever their religious beliefs that is between them and God. I want to select the best possible leader. One who considers ALL the citizens of the US. Anybody know of some objective websites I can read for more information on all the candidates?
Obama supporters are as naive as he is stating experience is irrelevant and that mentality is so totally irresponsible.  We have just had the most inexperienced president ever, who was even a governor, being advised on every issue and look at the total mess.  We cannot afford a 2 year senator that only has rosy speeches to offer.  Experience is vital! As far as trashing the 90's: Clinton should coin the phrase “back to the future” for her campaign as I personally am desperate for 8 years of peace and prosperity!!  Obama is not ready and I’m sure he knows it if he can get past his inflated ego.
> His last point, however, that successful
> Presidents are those with the fewest wounds,
> seems to score one for Hillary. Hill stikes
> me as the more emotionally mature and stable
> candidate.


Hillary strikes me as someone that has sustained a considerable amount of emotional abuse and one that carries a lot of baggage. Hillary shows many, many indicators that she is emotionally unstable. If things do not go according to script, she becomes unsure of herself, flustered, and then shows a lack of confidence. Hillary looks to be the most unstable of all the candidates. Everyone has emotions, but Hillary seldom shows hers, and when she does, they look contrived and scripted. You can just feel that there is a lot of anger and resentment just under the surface with her. Hillary is by far the most risky candidate of both the Democrats and the Republicans. It is really unclear how she would behave if she was ever elected to the presidency,
Vanreuter: WTF are you? WTF died and made you King of information. You are no better informed than anyone else in here, we just don't try to prove how much information we can cut and paste in a minute. All you do all day, everyday is sit in front of the computer and pretend your some kind of a professor with the market nabbed on political facts. Man get a job!
I'm curious,  do most people now believe that there are no problems that can't be solved by government intervention?  Another program, a new administrative agency, a little tax increase, what's the harm?  However, when is the last time one of these creations was deep sixed?  None come to my mind, so, where does it end folks?  The government tax rate is ever growing and spending is never reduced.  Just remember, government jobs detract from the GDP not contribute.  Time for a little self-reliance.  And, just to thwart the inevitable barbs, I'm not endorsing throwing people into the cold, or tossing disadvantaged kids under a bus.  Time for a 180 degree turn, vote Ron Paul.
Lyn, MD.
Yes, let's talk about electability.
Obama garnishes a paltry 26% among registered Democrats nationwide.
Sorry, that aint going to "butter the biscuit."Hillary rings in at close to 45%, which will surely increase when the other candidates go by the wayside.
As for throwing dirt, the only people I see doing that are Obama and his followers (like you, for instance.)
I don't want to hear about the Shaheen B.S. either. Because Hillary apologized for his comments, even though they were dead bolts accurate.
The right wing WANTS Obama to be the Democratic candidate. If you don't believe me, just listen to Rush, Hannity, and O'reilly. Hell, even Karl Rove is out there publishing talking points for Obama to use against her. Why would he do that if he didn't want Obama at the top of the ticket?
The answer is as plain as the nose your face. If you can't see it, there's somethinmg wrong with you.

HILLARY FOR PRESIDENT 2008! ***Experience Counts***

I would like to add a few points to this discussion

1. Independents always go for the fresh face until they start pay attention, then they go for the moderate. Clinton is the most moderate of the democrats. she will also pull in fiscal conservative socially liberal independents that Obama will scare off. She is the democrat of wall street.  An very important independent  demographic that actually votes, as opposed to young liberals that go for obama.

2. Think long and hard about what type of teenager does "a lot of blow but never touched smack" and the type of world he must have been living in to do that. You don't hang out in the boy scouts and do "a lot of blow" you live a dirty life. I am in no way a prude but this makes me a little scared about Obama.

3. Lastly, Obama remind me a lot of the governator, great and grandiose ideas but he hasn't come to grips with the reality of a three party system. It took Arnold two years to come to terms with that, I am not sure we have two years for Obama to figure that out.
Gayle, I think you have definitely hit upon something about how the MSM has their anointed picks.  However, I think it is due to something other than how much money the candidates have raised.  For example, look at Ron Paul.  He's raised over $18 million in the 4th quarter with $6 million coming in a single day from grass roots contributors, yet he's largely ignored.  I believe the MSM favorites is more due to the ownership of the media outlets and continuation of the neocon agenda.  Yes, I think Hillary is a part of this agenda with the political sparring with the administration simply for show.
To Kris:

I dont get why you oppose a sophisticated, albeit poll-driven candidacy. The reality is that this is modern politics and that you need that kind of campaign to beat the republicans. It is perhaps true that Hillary isn's as authentic as Obama, but as a Democrat, you must surely agree with the most of her policy proposals. Because thats what this is all about, electing a Democrat that 1.) will win the white house that 2.) will be a successfull president in terms of economic policy and 3.) Getting us out of the mess and the middle east.

I believe that Hillary will be a good president. She wil most likely cause division, but there is no proof that Obama won't cause division in what wil surely be a bitter campaign next fall. Its time to be serious about this and to start thinking soberly about the practical realities of and Obama candidacy/presidency. Obama will not walse into Washington and suddenly change everything. It will take time, hard work and specific policy proposals.

Hillary is clearly the best choice for both the nomination and the presidency.
Obama can never be president, because he's a coke snorting muslim educated in indonesian madrassas.
Hillary or John Edwards!!!  John is probably the most electable, but I don't think that matters.  The GOP have screwed up so bad the last 8 years, you could put a monkey against them in a general election and the Democrat is going to win.  Rudy WW3.  Mitt the Flip.  I mean, do we really want the next Supreme Court justice to be another conservative?  No abortion?  Continue to stop stem cell and continue to discriminate against gay people?  Start WW3 so Haloburton can make even more money?  If America votes GOP again, we are doomed!!!!!  
I was puzzled reading the "electability" numbers above, not because they show that Obama matches up better than Hillary against Republicans, but because polling data for the past year has shown Edwards to be the most electable of all.  Why, I wondered, didn't they mention this?  Turns out USA Today didn't even put Edwards in head-to-head match ups.

Okay, he's my guy, which is one reason for my anger, but beyond that, when are we going to stop letting the media choose our next president?  (What a fine job they did last time, huh?)  The MSM has worked so damn hard to portray Edwards as an also-ran but guess what?  It isn't working.  He's in a dead heat in Iowa, and his poll numbers in New Hampshire, South Carolina, and nationally are all higher than Kerry's were two weeks before the 2004 Iowa caucuses!  People DO make their choices based on the results of the first few states, and as Kerry's nomination shows, anything can happen.  Yet USA Today, in its wisdome, simply counts a candidate out.

I'm no conspiracy theorist but I'm starting to believe the MSM has tried to discount Edwards because he opposes media consolidation and will have the power, as president, to resurrect anti-Trust legislation.  (George Orwell would vote for Edwards, I'll betcha.)  Here are the REAL numbers in terms of electability:

RealClearPolitics, in an average of all polling data, shows that Edwards beats every single Republican by wider margins than either Hillary or Obama.  He and Barak do about the same against Guiliani and Thompson (both fare better than Hillary), but there's a marked difference against the rest of the field.  Edwards blows out Romney by 18 points; Obama by 11.  RCP doesn't show an Edwards-Huckabee match-up but a recent CNN poll had Edwards up by 25, a much fatter margin than other dems.  If the Repubs wise up and nominate their most electable guy, McCain, we could be in trouble.  Obama and Hillary barely squeak past him (1% and 1.7% respectively).  Remember, these are averages; the CNN poll has Hillary losing by 2, Obama tied.  That same poll showed Edwards beating McCain by 7.  (His average margin is 5 pts.)

One more bit of empirical data: In a 12-18 WaPo article asking people who they most OPPOSED as president--who they would actively work against--a full 40% chose Hillary.  Obama came in third at 11% (right behind the oh-so-lovable Rudy).  Seven percent don't like Romney, and five percent picked Huckabee ... This is one poll Edwards should be glad to lose.  He tied McCain for last place, with only 2%.

This is interesting information, and proves what I've been saying all along.
Most of Obama's support comes from independents who are trying to dictate to the Democratic Party who we should nominate.
We owe these people nothing, they are the same group who got behind Nader in 2000, and Nader or Cobb in 2004.
It's yet another reason why Obama should not be the Democratic Nominee in 2008.
We need to be nominating a Democrat who'll represent the Democratic Party's agenda and it's membership. Not someone who'll placate to independents and third party activists...who do all they can to help the G.O.P. at election time.

DEMOCRATS FOR HILLARY, 2008! ***Experience Counts***
J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY (Sent Tuesday, December 18, 2007 10:01 AM)
****************************************************

I hate to disappoint, but what you described is none other than your candidate(which I suppose is Shrillary) and her husband's strategy when he was POTUS. Remember, triangulate to the center?

Quite the contrary, we saw who the established Democrat party pushed on us last presidential election, not quite the best of the bunch(John Kerry big disappointment). Instead of saying that you as a party owe Indies nothing, how about approaching it this way, "you as a party owe the country a candidate that is worth a shit." And here we are,  
at a crossroads with two candidates of substance and integrity and one with niether. (whom is running on her husband's coattails) Most Independants and Democrats share the same goal, which is preventing the repugs from retaining the white house.
You can't be so naive as to think that anyone can win a pres race without independant support(it's called the need for cross-over appeal). Or to think that the Clintons have the dem's or the American people's best interests in mind more than OBAMA.
They say Hillary can't win because she will.  The GOP only bashes what they are afraid of.  

What is polarizing about Hillary?  Her opponents are polarizing, not her.  She and Bill are attacked by the right because they can't lose.

Because the Right Wing doesn't want Hillary, that is why I want Hillary.  They have ruined America, not Hillary.

Now I agree though about running a John Edwards.  I don't want to take any chances either.  But if we pick Hillary, she's gonna kick Huckabee/Mitt's/Rudy/McCain/Thomson/Paul's butt!!!  
elizabeth san diago, let us not forget that the Republicans want to talk about anything other than the time that they held power between 2000 and 2006.  They literally destroyed government and our future.  Not to mention our standing in the world.  
I'm definitely voting for Hillary.  I've read both her and Bill's autobiographies and have a tremendous amount of respect for both of them.  Yes, they've been through a lot in a very public way but I know I've been through so pretty rough times myself and have had to learn important lessons from my mistakes but the point is that you DO learn from them try not to make them all over again.  Hillary will be able to get things started way faster than Obama or any other candidate because, whether you like it or not, she WAS in the Whitehouse for all those years so she knows how it works.  There will be no learning curve.  Not to mention she'll have Bill there to help her through any grey areas.  This just seems like a give to me.  If Democrats want to take back the Whitehouse and try to clean up as much of the CRAP we've accumulated over the last 8 years as possible, then Hillary Clinton is our clear choice.  (I do like Obama but he's too young and he stutter's too much when he talks.  I think he probably will be President one day, and what an amazing successor to Hillary he would be after she's had 8 years to get things back on track.  Then he can take the reins....)
Van and J Merle,

Your comments on this post exemplify what's wrong with your candidate (Clinton), the Democratic and Republican parties, and this country.  We in the Democratic Party should absolutely care about who the independents support.  Not because you owe independents something, but because you need them in order to win.

Obama and Hillary have similar positions on most substantive issues, and when they differ it is Obama not Hillary who is more progressive.  So he isn't gathering independent and even Republican support because he isn't planning to fight for the Democratic values, it’s because of his rhetoric. Hillary is part of the partisan divide in this country; Obama wants to unite the country.  She's the establishment, he is for change.  Most Americans have had enough of whoever wins with a 1-2% majority, telling the other 48% to go eat crap.

As far as saying that Jerry shouldn't be posting about Dem candidates, that is ridiculous.  Even though I'm a Dem, I try to watch the Republican race as much as possible.  And when I think someone (for instance Guiliani), would be the absolute worst president, I take opportunities to try and keep the Republicans from nominating him.  I have done this in particular because I fear Clinton will be our nominee and can not win the general.  So yes, it is important for Republicans to voice their displeasure about certain Dem candidates.  Because there is a 50/50 chance they will end up being their President.

It's also important for all Dem voters to realize that a primary vote for Clinton is not only a slap in the face to the 30% of Dems who view her unfavorably, but also to the vast majority of Republicans.
As I read these postings I realize how we ended up with our current White House occupant...voters in the U.S. are incredibily ill-informed and prone to regurgitate sound bites they hear from the news...we get what we deserve, not what we need...people speak about strengths and weaknesses of candidates as if they had personal knowledge that this is the case.  I am not a supporter of any of these candidates, but I if we had any memory as a nation we would recall that the spin that the politicians and the media put on the process has no bearing on what the elected official ends up actually doing, e.g., Bush and nation-building; and also that the President doesn't work alone to set policy and cannot legislate (although in this administration they pretty much have).  Someone said something about secrecy and likeability above...hey, I will take any of this field over what we've sadly been subjected to since the last time a Clinton was in the WH.
Hillary cannot win the General Election. Period, cut and dry.
America will NOT elect a woman or a black man.
JW, Phoenix, AZ (Sent Tuesday, December 18, 2007 12:17 PM)
--Yet luckily, the majority of this country won't vote like you think.  Most might actually see either as a positive.


The unnamed Barack Obama bus tour ...Still better than the 'No Surrender Express'.  Do they all need names?


So, now Obama is doing better in head-to-head general match-ups?  These things sure can vary, I hope nobody puts stock in them.
We won't be fooled again......will we?

Elizabeth Sullivan, San Diego, CA (Sent Tuesday, December 18, 2007 12:35 PM)
--------------------------------------------------
What is with this we shit?  I was never fooled.  You do not fool me either.  Politicians are a sham, there is no there, there. Reality is we do not get what we PAY FOR.  We get what is shoved down our throats, day after day after day. Garbage in, garbage out, the media is paid for and owned by corporate America.  There is no wining, the deck is always stacked.
Stephen:

I'm not sure that I would characterize it as a "dirty life" but using a lot of cocaine is not something that anyone I went to high school with did.  I am not even sure what smack is myself.  I simply can't relate to shrugging off the use of serious narcotics at any age.  

Those are, of course, my values, and I don't expect anyone else to look at the situation the exact way that I do.  We are all individuals and we all carry our own experiences and belief systems into our politics.  There are probably a lot of people out there who will not look favorably upon someone who used cocaine, regardless of when he used it.  That's not a smear, that's not an insult - that's just a fact.  

Similarly, there are a lot of people who do not look favorably upon Hillary because she has stayed married to a man who cheated on her in the most public, humiliating way possible.  There are also a lot of people who won't vote for Edwards because he made his money as a trial lawyer.  

We don't live in a world of "should be"...we live in a world of what is.  Maybe we should be able to dismiss some of these things, but often we can't.  That's the reality, and the candidates (and voters) need to make sure that we don't lose sight of the reality while fixating on the idealism.  
How does Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton equate to any form of "change."

The argument that "I am the change candidate because I hgave 16 years of experience within the system" is just laughable.  Edwards was right when he said that replacing corporate republicans with corporate democrats is no change at all.
I love Joe Biden also.  He has a complete ease and sense of himself.  He is funny, speaks beautifully, and comes off more like "Every Man", even though he is a very experienced and smart U.S. Senator.  I am of the opinion that if he were higher in the polls, he could pull this off.  I would support and work for him gladly if he makes it.
FYI-I don't really think Biden would be a good choice for Secretary of State, only that I think him saying he wouldn't serve in that position detracts from my oppinion of him.  I think he is where he belongs, in the Senate.  A lot of of Biden supporters are always asking why he's not more in the race.  It is true that the Media is partly to blame.  The fact is that if not for Clinton, Biden would be more seriously covered.  She is the establishment candidate in this race, which doesn't leave much room for him.

As for why he doesn't have my support.  He is an establishment candidate.  I want meaningful change, not just from the Bush years (but also the Clinton years).  I really do not find long serving Senators to be attractive presidential candidates.  One is their demeanor, this is certainly true for Biden who sometimes come off as an angry lecturer in the debates.  Another problem, is that they have a long history of bad votes to overcome.  I also just don't consider all those years as a legislator to be that valuable.  They are legislators not leaders.  Their life experience is not well-rounded.  To be honest, Richardson probably has the best experience background to President.  But I don't think he's got the right personal characteristics.  

I think because so many of the Dem candidates are senators this year, and mostly because Clinton has been running on her false "experience" claim, people are maybe giving a little too much weight to this attribute.  Character, stance on issues, and Likeability/persuasiveness are also very important.  So many people are saying that Bush failures were due to his inexperience.  This is not the case.  He is stupid, with corrupt friends.  He's actually been one of the most successful presidents in pushing his agenda forward and getting experienced senators to cave to his every demand.
Jerry my boy; Is the fact that we are in for a long duration in the Middle East where we are not wanted only the US dollar is the only concern.  

As a Independant, there is not one canidate that will state that he or she will stop this bloody mess that greed got us into and vacate the "WAR ZONE" in the Middle East. I wish everyone had the guts to march in the streets protesting this un-American aggresson by this administration.

Quit the lying and cheatin and give this country back to the Middle Class that built it for future generations.    

Think, our Statue of Liberty, she hold in her right hand with right arm extended a beacon of hope and freedom, welcoming all who would assimilate to join our country. Live free or die.  Stop living in "FEAR".

Do you know what is in her left hand?
Answer is below.

American are great and should not be living in "FEAR" that has been instilled on the weak.  "The Real American" are over there building a Nation that doesn't want us. USA is a stop gap defending Isreal. The Middle East are against "CAPITALISM."  

Our troops have did their mission and it is time to bring them back to a near as possible normal life.  They did what was asked of them, many did not know that this administration was building a Nation on the backs of 3,891 dead US military. A large price to pay for a LIE.

Do you know what is in her left hand by her side?
ANS: It is the TABLET 23' 7" tall by 13'7" wide of our laws drawn up in 1756. Come here to be a  legal imigrant and assimilate with this country and those who break our laws are to be turned away.
Hillary will come thru just fine. Just watch
I think that Obama doing cocaine, pot and alcohol is a very big deal and i am ashamed that the candidates are scared of offending Barracks image. He did drugs admitteded it and it was not only pot he did cocaine!
That makes him unqualified in my view, an ex drug addict for president Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
I think that it is a very big deal that Obama has done cocaine. Barack is an ex drug attict self admitted on tv. It is wrong for Clinton to fire one of her employees that mentioned his drug use, it is a very big deal about Obamas drug use. What if the stresses of presidency become too much for him and he turns to drugs again?
This country needs leadership with proven character; the creativity to think outside the box; the ability to work with others; vision; courage.  These qualities will supercede today's issues and provide the backbone to unite us and tackle the future together.

Now then - Does anyone anywhere even nominally match up? How sad that all we can hope for is the lesser of all evils to lead the United States of America.

Carrie, parhaps Hillary stayed with Bill our of her own political ambitions?
Obama is the most electable thats a given, he is the one canidate that can get the most independents, and even some republicains to change there votes. And none of that will show up on these polls.
As for all these negative statements, it's just the other canidates or there supporters being scared because Obama is going to win. I could give you the details on each little statement but most already know the truth. If you want the info read his book or go to his web site http://www.barackobama.com or better yet do both.
I don't want to say anything negative, but Clinton and her supporters are seeing they can't win on her alone so they have to try and bring Obama down. Obama supporters please stick with facts, we will win this on Positives not negatives. If you feel Obama is being attacked put out the truth, but stay positive.
Good luck to all of you whoever your voting for.
HP Boston -

Why are you yelling?

How can anyone believe in a system that gave us Bush TWICE!! I often have more thoughts that Satan himself elected himself and all his hot helpers!  Makes that much sense!  (+ +)
              ^  
Look everybody, if anybody thinks that we are going to have an absolute transparent and honest candidate....ever, then you are all really fooled.  All candidates have to do and say what they think will help them win.  The bottom line here is that you have to look at the party's history of their votes and for whom they really help; sort of like a credit history.  As long as the Republicans don't win again, it doesn't really matter who wins, so long as it's a Democrat!!  Hillary needs to say and do what it takes to not let the Republicans take over, again...for all the non-wealthy's sake!!  At least Democrats try to help all sides, even the rich.  Republicans only cater to the rich and are wiping out the middle class and widening the lower class.  They have already sold us out!
Barack Obama for President of the United States of America.

Say no to nepotism.
Say no to triangulated Iraq vote disasters.
Say no to mud-sling machine politics.

It's time for America to Rise and Shine again.
Barack Obama for President of the United States of America.

Say no to nepotism.
Say no to triangulated Iraq vote disasters.
Say no to mud-sling machine politics.

It's time for America to Rise and Shine again.
Repulicans started their hate Hillary compaign when Bill took office. Why ? because she wanted to give American's a health care system that works for all Americans. Let's scare all those dumb working class people and call it socialize medicine. So they successfully derailed positive changes in healthcare. They don't like her because she is smarter then them and our congressmen hate smart women. I don't really care who wins between Obama and Hillary, as long we do not elect another idiot Republican who wants to scare you about Mexicans, Iran, woman's rights, and religion. Americans better start caring about their retirement, mortgages, children's education and healthcare. The report is in "no child left behind" is a total disaster. They were promoted without an education. So much for our idiot president with millions losing their homes, and he only wants to save a handfull. Give me a break stop worrying about the cleaning lady and gardener from Mexico they are not trying to screw you like the Republicans.
Thank you Joyce!  Seems like half of America votes like the Third World voters do, they look at charm, loud hoop la, and selfish incentives for their votes.  Wake up, America is being sold under our eyes!  This isn't American Idol.  Vote for their minds, experience, and voting history and don't make this a personality contest...this isn't high school!!


SEND A COMMENT

PLEASE READ: All comments must be approved before appearing in the thread; time and space constraints prevent all comments from appearing. We will only approve comments that are directly related to the blog, use appropriate language and are not attacking the comments of others.

Message (please, no HTML tags. Web addresses will be hyperlinked):

TRACKBACKS

Trackbacks are links to weblogs that reference this post. Like comments, trackbacks do not appear until approved by us. The trackback URL for this post is: http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/trackback.aspx?PostID=523098

First Read e-mail alerts


Sign up for First Read alerts
The first place for key political news and analysis

Syndicate This Site

Add First Read to your news reader:
live.com xml
myyahoo msn
bloglines newsgator
google