ABOUT FIRST READ

First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



Edwards camp on the AFSCME flier

Posted: Thursday, December 20, 2007 11:11 AM by Mark Murray

From NBC's Mark Murray and Chuck Todd

As mentioned last night and earlier today, NBC/NJ's Carrie Dann reported on a flier by the pro-Clinton labor union AFSCME that hits Obama on his health-care plan. The catch, however, is that the flier appears disguised as an Edwards attack -- since he is the only candidate mentioned in it criticizing Obama.

Now the Edwards campaign weighs in on the flier. Jennifer O'Malley Dillon, the Edwards campaign's Iowa state director, says in a statement: “There have been a lot of misleading tactics and tricks in the last few weeks, but we've just never seen anything like this before. Either they are trying to trick people, or they've realized that on health care, John Edwards is the candidate who speaks honestly about what it really costs and what will be required to have truly universal coverage. He has led the debate on health care with the strongest, boldest plan that covers everyone and is paid for by repealing the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy."

She continues, "It's fine to have an honest debate about policy, but Iowans deserve better than planted questions and campaign fliers designed to fool them.”

Meanwhile, the Obama campaign sent First Read past congressional testimony from AFSCME head Gerry McEntee criticizing Massachusetts' health-care plan, which -- drum roll, please -- mandates health insurance.

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gorge is stupid
I wanted to add that I agree wholeheartedly with George's comment about MSNBC and their hatred toward Senator Clinton.  If you can stomach Hardball, it's interesting to watch Matthews' lead-ins and the way he ALWAYS has on people who suck up to him and follow his "Obama is the future" garbage. Mr. Todd (not Sweeney) is along the same lines--ya got it!
obama and first read.. his own private soviet TASS newsagency.
no need for the truth, just play it for obama.
Obama's healthcare plan is not at all weak.  He has a solid plan and knows how he's going to pay for it. From repealing the Bush tax cuts, improving cost-efficiency in the industry, and demanding concessions from the insurance industry that is ripping off Americans for profit.  Hillary says she will mandate insurance, but will never deal harshly enough with the insurance lobby to get significant cost reductions.  So American tax payer will be footing the bill.  Edwards goes too far (just as Hillary did the first time around).  His plan of leaving the insurance industry out completely will sink any chance of it happening.  Besides, I don't think the majority of Americans agree with having a healthcare mandate, just affordable access.  Obama is right on this issue.
Folks,

The verdict is out on Hillary Clinton’s campaign and AFSCME; the two organizations are phony. Both Hillary Clinton and AFSCME cannot be trusted when it comes to what is best for America.

Obama just made both Hillary Clinton and AFSCME look stupid. What say you Madame Hillary Clinton? Obama's opposition research is impeccable. I bet Clinton didn't see this one coming.
All of the comments above don't say anything about the flier being put out to smear one candidates campaign by another and blame it on the other candidate.   This is where the converstion should be.   Everyone should be outraged at the tactics.   If this is underhanded garbage coming from the Clinton Campaign, I can only hope the voters of Iowa see through it.

If in fact Edwards campaign did not put it out there they need to come forth with a strong statement denouncing it.   Obama's campaign should merely point out that they have turned from intelligent discourse to outright slander and rise above it.

Intelligent voters will see through it.  This is where the press comes in to sort through the mess instead of trying to call the election for the voters before the first ballot is casted.
Never seen this many CLINTON INTERNET THUGS on the web. These online thugs are on every major political website out there, its scary.
Never seen this many CLINTON INTERNET THUGS on the web. These online thugs are on every major political website out there, its scary.
Can you believe the Clintons, getting Bob Kerry to spread rumors,they are worse than Putin and the KGT, its been a known fact that Hillary destroyed any woman Bill slept with and had spies constantly, these are Sickos that know they can tell a democrat black is white and they will believe it.  And pray tell me what they have done for any black, except use them, then treat them like obama.
The idiot union guys dont even know Hillary's campaign manager was a former union buster and they rubber stamp her.  Can anyone in the democrat party read?
The CBS poll for SC

Obama leads among women !!
Is this the 'Oprah effect' ?

Poll: Huckabee Up in SC, Democrats Tied
Wednesday December 19, 2007 11:46 PM
By The Associated Press

THE RACE: The presidential race for Republicans, Democrats in South Carolina.
^---
THE NUMBERS - DEMOCRATS

Barack Obama, 35 percent
Hillary Rodham Clinton, 34 percent
John Edwards, 13 percent

^---
THE NUMBERS - REPUBLICANS

Mike Huckabee, 28 percent
Mitt Romney, 20 percent
Rudy Giuliani, 12 percent
John McCain, 11 percent
Fred Thompson, 10 percent
^---

OF INTEREST:

In a reversal of many national and state polls, Obama leads Clinton among South Carolina Democratic women who are likely to vote, while Clinton leads among men. Obama has a comfortable lead with blacks, including black women, while Clinton is well ahead among whites of both genders. Bill Clinton has a stronger impact for his wife than Oprah Winfrey does for Obama, for whom she has campaigned in the state. Among likely GOP voters, seven in 10 say they may still change their minds, including most Huckabee and Romney supporters. Huckabee's backers say they like his honesty and religious beliefs, while Romney's cite his stance on issues, honesty and experience. Giuliani and Romney are considered most electable, with only one in five naming Huckabee.

^---
The CBS News poll involved telephone interviews with 447 likely Republican primary voters and 599 likely Democratic primary voters, including an oversampling of black voters. It was conducted from Dec. 13-17. The margin of sampling error was plus or minus 5 percentage points for Republicans and plus or minus 4 points for Democrats.

^---
George - have you lost your sense? All the campaigns send their stuff to all the media outlets. That's how they get, you know, media. Clinton has certainly sent at least as much material to FR as Obama or Edwards.
###BREAKING NEWS##...NEW CNN POLL HILLARY CLINTON NOW LEADING IN IOWA. *** COME SEE WHY hillaryclinton.com
"Obama's health care plan is bad"

Rather than simply making a conclusion why don't you explain why it is "bad"?  Another question for the pro-Senator Clinton crowd --- do you defend the AFSCME flier and it wrongly suggesting to the reader that it came from the Edwards camp?  If you do, please explain why.  If you do not, then please say so, before you go on to start putting out her campaign's standard boilerplate propaganda.
I could just picture bin laden, and those who still want to terrorise Americans, getting a "kick" out of hearing about this presidential race.....Well another thing you can thank the muslim faith for, now some people will use what those particular muslims, did to after 9/11, as an excuse to invade our privacy more.Now don't get me wrong I'm not concerned about Arabic people, I'm concerned about the muslim faith.I'm a protestant Christian.I don't consider the Lord Jesus just a nifty guy.I wonder what Obama's beliefs really are. I don't care if the guy sits in a protestant church or not.WHAT DOES HE BELIEVE? That must have been one heck of a marriage behind closed doors at times. Seesh!!I do believe people can get killed over such a union, if she didn't turn from being an "infadel", that must have been very interesting "union" Obama's parents had at times(hmm muslims don't usually care for Christian's either in the middle east countries). I haven't seen anything but open hatred or demeaning attitudes from muslims in their "homeland" concerning Americans and Christians.Now I am not talking about Arabic people, I expressing concern about the muslim faith that has been proven in these modern times.Some Americans spit on the blood of 9/11 victims with their politically incorrect unconcern and insensitivity.Some are shameless as they pat themselves on the back bragging about their desire for peace.Peace in a fallen world requires protection and defense....not live and let live your way into being suckered.
HILLARY ROCKS ! ROCK ON HILLARY ! hillaryclinton.com
I suppose politics has always been like this, and the people were either too naive or less well informed to
realize what was going on, but the way this campaign is going, I am beginning to wonder if we will come out of this caucus/primary season with ANYBODY I will like well enough to vote for. We have been fed this steady diet of relatively unimportant stories about campaign "tricks" criticisms and rebuttals, and meaningless polls for so many weeks now, are we ever going to get back to hearing about the issues?  

Senator Clinton makes statements about how her election will bring down oil prices?  How? To my knowledge, she gave no specifics. Senator Obama claims that he will change our country's foreign policy. How? To my knowledge his remarks dealt with what he hadn't done (support the war, etc.) but didn't give specifics on what changes he would make. Various candidates cite specific dates by which they will have troops out of Iraq.  How?  An immediate pull out and let the chips fall where they may, or what?

Am I the only one tired of reading hateful insulting comments about the candidates, both professionally and personally, tired of reading posters argue facts that can't be changed with people whose minds won't be changed?  Is our support of our candidates so weak that we have to respond and challenge every peceived criticism of him or her?  Are we ever going to have meaningful discussions about issue related topics--and if we argue can we at least argue about a candidate's position on an issue rather than the trash that seems to dominate our discussions lately?
George: '..."Obama campaign sent First Read pat congressional testimony..."    and then the ...drum roll please...
"gotcha....'

UH....
George, did you notice that AFSCME was trying to deliver a 'hit piece' on Obama by disguising it as an Edward's mailer ?
You're complaining because they got caught ?
Should we PRETEND it was a 'hit piece' by the Edwards camapign ?

Hillary got caught practicing 'dirty tricks' and you're complaining ?
Because it was discovered ?

AFSCME got caught complaining about something they preciously supported
And you're complaining ?

Why doesn't Crooked Hillary just practice honest politics ?
Would that kill her ?

the 'muslim' emails
the  fund raising scandals
Norman Hsu
Peter Paul
HillRaisers
drugs
roll the dice
inexperience

Should the media look the other way ?
Nice try

Hillary Clinton, cold, calculating, dishonest, unethical, divisive

We always suspected you and First Read were in cahoots...that Axelrod and Co were partners in your reporting.


Now there is proof.


Disgusting. Since you at MSNBC are Obama supporters why not be HONEST for once and just come out and say we are endorsing Barack Hussien Obama for president rather than pussy footing around attacking other candidates.

We'd have much more respect for you.  NOw we have NONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just more desperate tactics from the desperate candidate. Hillary will be DONE before 2/5. She says she can afford to come in 3rd in Iowa. Can she afford it in ew Hampshire, South Carolina, Nevada, and I think there's one or two other contests before Super Tuesday? Every one of those early contests she loses, some of the luster she has in the big Super Tuesday states disappears. It gets harder to keep supporters opening their checkbooks. It gets harder to keep campaign staff happy and hard working. It gets harder to stay on message.

We're working our way to an Obama/Edwards or Edwards/Obama ticket on the Democratic side. Either ticket will crush whoever the Republicans sacrif---er, choose on their side.
George...I think you're a little (no, a lot) paranoid dilusional.  Just because Obama's team sent a release, which is an excellent defense for him by the way, to MSNBC, that means their in cahoots?  Huh?

I have no respect for YOU!
people are missing the point. the intent of this is to show the dirty tactics the clinton campaign is willing to use. the clinton campaign has also registered to domain sites that have the sole purpose to discredit obama. they are even using the language cowardly. the article can be read at yahoo. her intentions is to run a dirty smear campaign that is typical of politics as usaual while trying to pretend to be a positive candidate.

this is a subtle attempt to smear edwards and obama at the same time.

i put no stock in the abc/wallstreet poll. wallstreet had a representative on t.v. last week stating they would rather have hillary to deal with than anyone else running. the clinton's have a history with coporate america and lobbyists that reaches back beyond bill's presidency, but became heavily inclusive in the clinton political theology once they became insider washington operatives.

they are going to run a dirty campaign. go to yahoo and check it out. people have no idea what they are asking for if the clinton's return to the white house. they are going to be sold out to big business.
since when did delineating polkicy differences become personal attacks?  it's politics people...deal with it.  
This reflects the same kind of political cowardice that Hillary Clinton has demonstrated for years. Its sad that AFSCME bought into the Karl Rove cheap tricks to attack Obama. If there argument against Obama's plan is accurate, why do they need to invoke another candidate to make a point that they believe is true? Its because they represent the weakest form of hack politicians.
Shillary will come out in the media saying she does not condone such practices. However,it already out in the MSM. Her willing accomplice
The government does a poor job of mandating auto insurance, how do you suppose we mandate health insurance?? Also, what if you don't get health insurance, what's your punishment? Jail? lashings??
ABC, Drudgereport,: Hillary Clinton launches 2 new ATTACK OBAMA websites, when will MSNBC stop remaining silent. Hillarys brother, DEADBEAT DAD owes 10s of thousands of dollars. Hillary looks the other way. Is this the candidate, that women want supporting them?
Frank Furter independent@large (Sent Thursday, December 20, 2007 12:09 PM)

---------------

Keep in mind that this is the same woman who stood stoic by her husband's side after he was caught getting blown by a mistress in the Oval Office. She looked the other way then, why should it be any different now as long as she gets what she feels she is entitled to?
It's amazing how posts here ignore the main item being reported. Which is - Clinton is attacking Obama and doing that disguised as Edwards.  

This tells a lot about character no matter the spin on it.
The fact is John Edwards was a trial lawyer most of his life and a US Senator for 6 years.  Now, I believe Edwards’s heart is in what he says and he truly believes it , but when you compare it to what Obama’s life has been about it seems to be no contest.

Obama:

Community Organizer on the streets of Chicago

Civil Rights Attorney

Constitutional Law Professor

State Senator

US Senator

That seems like much more a record of working “for the people” to me.  
I find it comical that so many supporters of Senator Clinton have resorted to referring to supporters of Sentor Obama as "ding dongs" and "maniacs"! lol

Interestingly, not ONE person has refuted the SUBSTANCE of the information presented, which is that the head of the AFSCME union in directly contradicting HIMSELF in attempt to confuse voters about Senator Obama's healthcare plan. Can anybody logically refute that? I didn't think so.

*The key phrase that stood out for me was "the Massachusetts reform model attempts to achieve near-universal coverage " . . . "near-universal coverage"?
As in everyone not covered even though the Clinton campaign swore up and down that their plan would cover everybody - or else?

For all the fear mongering, name calling, and smear tactics, at the end of the day, the simple fact is, without Bill Clinton's record as President, Senator Clinton doesn't have a leg to stand on. She hasn't presented one original idea in this entire campaign.  
they aren't supposed to coordinate, but do you actually believe they don't? think about it. it doesn't make sense for someone to invest that kind of money on behalf of someone with out a common theme strategy.

it also is a familiar pattern of what has been done by the clinton campaign the last 3 weeks.

it's politics. some play dirtier, some play rougher and some will try to find a way around any law they can. those who usually find away to get around the law with advertisement and campaign finance law usually win. the clinton's have always been and are still experts at this.

edwards and obama will have to hope that america wants a different type of political landscape or they are going to have to get dirty to. the clinton's have enough dirt to expose if they want to go that route. i mean recent.

you can't run politics of hope if you do what the clinton's are doing. that strategy would be hypocritical and directly against change and new direction. they just need to home that all of america isn't so enamored with the clinton's that they turn away from the truth.

if edwards wins iowa it would be fantastic.
anyone that keeps saying that mandated health insurance is the only way it will cover everyone should look at the history of mandated health insurance and the hardships it has created for those who can't afford it in mitt romney's old state. also look at who it actually benefited.

please take a serious look. be careful of what you wish. you may get what your asking for.
Do you Clinton supporters, who are screaming about how Obama needs to stop whining, even read the blog? Its Edwards' response.
Dickie Flatts, Charlotte, NC/van: '...Correct me if I am wrong.  The Union CAN'T coordinate with Clinton's campaign.  That would be illegial.....'

You're wrong, Dickie/van
The union IS COORDINATING with the Clinton campaign
It's another 'dirty trick' by the Clinton campaign

'...The Union can freely - as in is ALLOWED -  to tout an issue and take on any candidate in a negative or positive way re: that issue....'

Sure, but they're trying to make it look like it's the Edwards campaign doing the mailer....
ergo: more Dirty trick from the Clinton campaign

The union is criticizing Obama for OPPOSING mandates when they OPPOSED mandates in Congressional testimony

A bit crooked, but typical of Hillary


'...So what we have here is another  - for the 10,ooo time - is Barry Obama and campaign crying and whining about something that is perfectly in bounds and that they just happen not to like....'

Actually, the Edwards campaign is complaining about Hillary's dirty tricks, too

Why involve Edwards in Clinton's smear tactics ?


Feel free to ask me ANY Questions you like, Dickie/van
I'm always glad to help the clueless

PS: Dickie/van,
Your girl got nailed for a 'dirty trick' out of the Republican playbook
If she opposes Obama's policies, why doesn't SHE criticize them ?
Why hide behind AFSCME ?
Trying to look 'warm' and 'human' ?

Hillary Clinton, cold, calculating, dishonest, unethical, divisive


I think Bush is hoping Hillary will get the nomination!
But he is scared of Edwards!
No wonder people don't trust the political media. You guys write about this without discussing whether the piece's statements on health care plans are right or wrong, but instead engage in speculative conjecture about whether it was meant to look like it came from Edwards, and tying it to the Clinton campaign.

Maybe you suspect voters are not literate enough to read the "Paid for by the American Federation of State , County, and Municipal Employees and not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee." So not only does it say it's not from Edwards, Clinton's campaign wasn't responsible for it in the first place.
Everyone should read Jonathan Alter's piece in Newsweek to get a clear idea about Obama's plan.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/80882
clinton campaign launches two websites solely for the purpose of smearing barack obama using words such as cowardly. article at yahoo.com

dirty politics-dirty politicians
clinton campaign launches two websites solely for the purpose of smearing barack obama using words such as cowardly. article at yahoo.com

dirty politics-dirty politicians
hey kids, it's not a smear to use someone's statements in an ad .. edwards knows obama's plan sucks, and he said so.

there wouldbe news if the union made up what edwards says, but it did not.


it's simply first read whining for obama.
This AFSCME family is supporting John Edwards, and I have a message for Gerry McEntee, you've been a big disappointment to the rank and file for too long, and are disconnected from our wider realities.

Perhaps McEntee has sold out to the corporate interests that have been pushing privatization, or doesn't care how outsourcing has been gutting our communities.. I don't know, but he certainly has been all talk, with very little action or substance. His giving an endorsement to a neo-con like Hillary Clinton proves to me for once and for all that he's sold out and doesn't deserve our support.
We have so many Clinton's thug on the website because they are ready to hijack our democracy. If i were democrats i'd rather be concern about Bill Clinton's sexual addiction. Source indicates that Bill Clinton have been to so many sex club in the last 8 years.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/12/20/clinton-insiders-fear-sec_n_77637.html
See why we suck so bad - - -  HillarySuck.com
Girlfriday,

Wis your fav flavor of victimization kool-aide?  The Barry Obama flavor?
NSMSNBC

Just some thoughts off the top of my head.I agree with much of what you said with respect to health care plans.  I get confused about what we are trying to do--do we we want to provide better health care or do we want to provide health insurance coverage for all Americans.  For me, those are two very different things. I don't think mandating insurance coverage is a workable solution for a number of reasons.  Frankly, I'm come to the point where I question if involving the insurance companies is a good idea, period. Seems like a lovely situation for them doesn't it--require everyone to buy their product?  I have heard so many horror stories of how insurance companies have refused to pay for claims that I can't see the justification for simply buying insurance just to meet a mandate.  If a plan does not cover most claims, what have we gained?  If certain treatments aren't covered, the patient who can't afford them does without, so how does that improve his health care?  

But then I look at the fraud and corruption that is pervasive in Medicare and I begin to wonder if the government could do a better job than insurance companies, or would we just be creating another bureaucratic nightmare.

I do believe that state government could do more with respect to funding for preventive care for children through the school systems.

Difficult issue this--
Nashville_fan (Sent Thursday, December 20, 2007 3:11 PM)

Would you like a list of things I have been called because I defend Hillary?  Stupid is not even the worst.  I have had my education, my integrity and my character questioned on more than one occasion.  I have been called stupid, short-sighted, uninformed, racist...the list goes on and on.  

Not, incidentally, by those who support Hillary.  Nope, it is the Obama cult that spews that particular venom, because they can't stand anyone who doesn't share their view that Obama is a god.  He sees everything, he knows everything and he will fix everything.  I wouldn't be surprised if they thought he can turn wine into water.  
I am disgusted by people who continue to pass judgment on Hillary for how she handled the Monica situation.  Until each and every one of you is ready to let the rest of the world dictate what you do in your marriage, you should all shut the hell up.  
[Are we ever going to have meaningful discussions about issue related topics ...?
Dot, Illinois]

Dot, I agree with you, and that is my one reservation with FirstRead.  The subheading says: The first place for key news and analysis.  However, they focus so much on the Presidential candidates and their campaigns, whereas there is so much interesting going on in.  I say cover some of the major legislations going on in Congress and elsewhere, that would lead to some wonderful policy discussion and education.  Cover what people do.  You do have to, however, give credit to people for staying on topic to argue about the candidates, since that is what most of the topics are.
Wow!  Who's hiring bloggers to turn a comment thread on an article about Edwards into HillBama standoff?

The fix is in, folks.  Your only options are Obama (no UHC) and Hillary (dumbed-down Edwards UHC).  Shut up and like it because it's the only way Republicans stand a chance in '08.

i sure hope that for once Dems wise up for the sake of our country and the world.  Edwards offers the only realistic yet sufficiently drastic approach given our dire situation.

Hopefully Dems can overcome their anti-white misandry once they enter the caucus/voting booth!
president bush said in his speech this morning that he is feeling pretty good about the GOP keeping a republican in the white house. if you remember he also so said just a month ago, that he thought hillary clinton would be the nominee.

bush knows that if hillary wins the democratic nomination, the gop, neo-con, conservative, republican, libertarian and christian right base will rise up like a tidal wave to defeat hillary clinton.

he also knows that so many democrats will not go to vote if hillary wins(low voter turn out). the independents will either stay home or vote republican. especially if it is mccain.

just because karl rove isn't in the white house don't be foolish enough to think he isn't going to show them how to get back to the white house. he was the mastermind of the democratic defeat the last time and he will be behind the scenes as the mastermind again.

some of us remember bill and hillary and their white house. it wasn't pretty at all. were hillary's campaign is making up stuff on edwards and obama, the republicans will be firing the truth and it will bring her down hard. they already have issues that are leading to possible inquiry and they haven't gotten the nomination as of yet.

after the news about the two websites today and this flier that was really dirty i have decided that hillary will be absolutely bad for this country. hillary has no respect anyone. she will assasinate with lies, deceptions and breaking the law. they did it before. they are going to do it again.

as an independent i will vote for biden, edwards, obama or richardson. if hillary wins i am not going to vote, unless it is mccain, then i will vote against hillary.

i know some of you love hillary with blind eyes. i don't and won't be fooled. i will absolutely not ignore her sleazy, dirty campaign tricks she has decided to resort to.

independents have their own forums and correspondence. yes, some may vote for hillary, but the majority will not. they will either not vote or move to the republicans.

you will lose if you nominate hillary. you can't win without the independent vote and the majority of the independent vote is not going to turn out for hillary.  
Carrie --> Would you like a list of things I have been called because I defend Hillary?


No. Please. No one cares. Just go away.


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