ABOUT FIRST READ

First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



Oh-eight (D): A 'world-class genius'

Posted: Friday, December 21, 2007 9:12 AM by Domenico Montanaro
Filed Under:

A national FOX News/Opinion Dynamics poll shows Clinton with solid a 49%-20% lead over Obama.

CLINTON: The candidate lobbed this her rivals’ way. Clinton “said choosing a candidate simply because they are more likable - a thinly veiled reference to Obama and Edwards - would repeat the 2000 mistake of electing George W. Bush, a then-Texas governor with a regular guy reputation and little foreign policy chops.”

NBC/NJ's Mike Memoli was with Bill Clinton last night in New Hampshire, where Clinton -- again -- tried to beat back this notion that Obama's run in '08 is similar to Bill's in '92. “There’s a slight oversimplification there,” Clinton said. “I also gave you a real plan for what I would do. And when I came here I was 46, but I was the most senior governor in America, I had worked hard on the very economic issues that I said I would work on as president for years and years and years.”

And, Clinton said, he thought he won then in part because people thought he “was more tuned in” to the day’s challenges. “There’s no question that Hillary is not out of touch,” he continued. “She has spent a lifetime making these changes.”

In the end, Clinton said his wife is “always making something good happen.” “She’s got the right vision, big plans, and a proven ability to change life for the better,” he said. “So experience and change are only opposed in values if you’re so experienced you don’t have any energy left and you can’t cut it, or if your experience is in fighting change. But if you know how to do things and you’ve proven over a lifetime that you can make change in other people’s lives, I think that’s a pretty strong recommendation. “

Bill also said “his wife is a ‘world-class genius’ when it comes to improving the lives of others.

Meanwhile, the Los Angeles Times' Z. Barabak delves into the Bill question.  He gets one Bill/Hill friend to say on the record that Bill's gone too far in attacking Obama. Reed Hundt, who went to law school with both Clintons, is supporting Obama. Hundt was appointed to the FCC in Bill's first term. “‘President Clinton is going way too far -- too far into the politics of personal attack, which he knows is bad for the country,’ Hundt said. ‘It's not right for a former president to get out there and be demeaning any of our candidates.”

“‘Calling Barack Obama “a symbol” is not acceptable discourse,’ Hundt went on, referring to Clinton's comments in a recent interview with PBS' Charlie Rose. ‘Likening him to a TV commentator is an insult.’”

Playing the victim card? Bill Clinton in his conversation with the Concord Monitor editorial board: “‘If people think she's a little too edgy, I'd ask them to just remember what she's been through in the last 15 years,’ Bill Clinton said. ‘Many people would have been broken by what they did to her. Everything that Kenneth Starr and that crowd charged her with, every single thing has proved to be baseless.’”

By the way, is Clinton the only campaign that's gotten its congressional surrogates to attack a fellow colleague? That's what happened yesterday on a conference call as three Clinton House supporters hit Obama over the "present" vote deal.

Nothing like Tony Rodham in the news... shockingly for something negative. The New York Post reports he may be a deadbeat dad, owing more than  $150K in child support.

EDWARDS: There was a long, awkward pause in the Woodbury County Courthouse in Iowa last night when an African-American man in the audience stood up and said he had something to say, NBC/NJ’s Tricia Miller reports. “My statement is that I've watched John Edwards for a long time, and I've come to some conclusions. And the best conclusion I can come to is that John Edwards loves white people,” he said, and eyed the almost entirely white crowd sternly. At the front of the room Edwards stood firm but had to be worried. “You hear that? John Edwards loves white Americans. Any black Americans here?” he asked, and the young staffer running the mic through the audience reluctantly raised his hand.

“John Edwards loves you too,” the man said. Relieved, the audience began to clap and Edwards laughed uproariously. The man continued: “Native Americans, John Edwards loves you. I want to make absolutely sure Asian-Americans know that John Edwards -- that John Edwards -- loves you.”

Declaring John Edwards’ love for several more people groups, the man finally handed the mic back The audience gave him a standing ovation, and Edwards, beaming his famous megawatt smile, quipped, “I’m John Edwards, and I approve that message.”

OBAMA: “Obama, touting his message to change Washington, told a round-table of [New Hampshire] independent voters he would not let his administration's aides lobby him once they leave, would make government transparent and cut out lobbyists' influence.”

On TODAY this morning, NBC’s David Gregory asked Obama several tough questions. About concerns over his lack of experience, the candidate replied that what voters see in his entire career “is someone who can bring people together.” On what he has done in the Senate, Obama cited his work to rein in lobbyists and special interests. And on his “present” votes while in the Illinois legislature, Obama said it’s now the “silly season” in the campaign, and that he has led on important issues like Iraq.

Here's a little nugget NBC/NJ's Erin McPike noted while following Obama around in New Hampshire last night. Obama: "I talk to Al Gore about every three weeks." Obama made this claim in a remark to the global warming Santa activists. Still, very interesting that they talk every three weeks or so... Wonder how often Gore and Clinton talk?

RICHARDSON: The New York Times profiles Richardson, focusing on his years as a negotiator.

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Comments

Seriously guys, at this point why even show general election poll numbers, it just doesn't matter at this point. These are the types of polls numbers that got Hilary and her campaign in this mess in the first place. She's fighting for her life and her campaign knows it.
Bill became President because of Ross Perot.  Hillary wants us to believe she's qualified to be President, because she was willing to put up with Bill's philandering hoping someday it would allow her to have a shot at running for president. Wow.....there's leadership.  
I doubt very much if "genius" was his first choice of a noun after the adjective "world class".
There are so many more men and women who would be qualified to run for president and be terrific leaders in that position.  As long as the Carville/Clinton and Rove/Bush type of political crap is able to win elections, we will not have good people running or winning this office.  
Not sure the comment about Tony Rodham is relevant to the discussion, or the campaign.

President Clinton's comment about all Senator Clinton has been through "everything that Ken Starr and that crowd charged her with" sounds self serving.  I would think his conduct while in office might have been tough on her too.

I am confused by Senator Obama's answer to the question about his "present" votes in the Illinois Senate. He said "its now the silly season in the campaign and that he has lead on important issues Like Iraq.  Iraq?  While in the Illinos Senate?  So he must have been going back to the previous questions which leaves the question on "present" votes unanswered.  While not an important issue in itself, a definitve answer would put that question to rest.
'FOX News/Opinion Dynamics poll'

 it has long been known the repubs want to face hillary in the general election, because they know she can't win, so what would one expect a fox poll to show
If HRC is a "world-class genius" the world is in a heap of hot doodoo.
Some good reporting on all fronts.
Also worth checking out: Jonathan Alter's piece in Newsweek on Obama's healthcare plan.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/80882
What a joke cigar Bill is, does he believe people have forgot his pardons of hunddreds of terrosists, drug dealers, and criminals, above objections of law enforcement.  Tons of money from these pardons went to his library, and Hillary's senate run.All i see and im from Arkansas is a pervert that shamed the office beyond repair. Him lying for Hillary who worked for communist law firms defending the Black Panthers, and writing her thesis on a well know communist who was her politicl idol.  SHE NEEDS TO BE RUNNING IN RUSSIA, OR CHINA.  WAKE UP PEOPLE.
What a joke cigar Bill is, does he believe people have forgot his pardons of hunddreds of terrosists, drug dealers, and criminals, above objections of law enforcement.  Tons of money from these pardons went to his library, and Hillary's senate run.All i see and im from Arkansas is a pervert that shamed the office beyond repair. Him lying for Hillary who worked for communist law firms defending the Black Panthers, and writing her thesis on a well know communist who was her politicl idol.  SHE NEEDS TO BE RUNNING IN RUSSIA, OR CHINA.  WAKE UP PEOPLE.
I cannot believe that Hillary is trying to compare Barack's foreign policy judgment to Bush's, when SHE voted to authorize his war. Everybody go read Barack Obama's Oct. 26, 2002 speech against the war and tell me that his judgment wasn't spot on, even back then
Bill also said “his wife is a ‘world-class genius’ when it comes to improving the lives of others.

Sure put some money in Paula Jone's bank account...
That was pure genius....

Yes Bill, we all know what YOU have put your wife through the last 15 years.....and continue to do so today!  We all know why she still puts up with your little side show events....It's all about the name.


Nothing like Tony Rodham in the news... shockingly for something negative. The New York Post reports he may be a deadbeat dad, owing more than  $150K in child support.

I gather we will not be hearing any ideas of Hillary and what she would do with deadbeat dads after today.


Here's a little nugget NBC/NJ's Erin McPike noted while following Obama around in New Hampshire last night. Obama: "I talk to Al Gore about every three weeks." Obama made this claim in a remark to the global warming Santa activists. Still, very interesting that they talk every three weeks or so... Wonder how often Gore and Clinton talk?

Maybe as much as Bill and Monica?......
As much as Paula and Bill?.....

Bad enough Al Gore had the brass one's to show up in Oslo to pick up an award that had nothing to do with peace....Does he really want to have a chat with Bill?

Reed Hundt, who went to law school with both Clintons, is supporting Obama.

Even Bill's friends are stepping back and thinking about the 90's......guess they figure they have had enough of the Clinton's as well....


Declaring John Edwards’ love for several more people groups, the man finally handed the mic back The audience gave him a standing ovation, and Edwards, beaming his famous megawatt smile, quipped, “I’m John Edwards, and I approve that message.”

LOL, talk about a campaign video moment.....






Is Hillary just trying to lose?  Is she sick of this whole thing?  Why on EARTH would she keep bringing up Iraq?

Everyone needs to remember what Barack Obama said in a speech in October of *2002*:
"I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a US occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of al-Qaeda.

I am not opposed to all wars. I’m opposed to dumb wars."

Would you rather have someone who gets misled by Republicans, or someone who got it ONE HUNDRED PERCENT correct?  When did George Bush ever give a speech similar to the paragraph quoted above?  When did HILLARY ever say ANYTHING close to that?  NEVER.


The "EXPERIENCE" to vote for the Iraq War, and then vote for the Kyl-Lieberman Iran bill that ties troop levels in Iraq to Iran...  or the JUDGMENT to make the RIGHT CALL the FIRST TIME?

I think I'll go with judgment.
Hillary is indeed a genius...straight A Yale Law School student.  She's smart, and knows how to lead us back on the right track.

First Readers - don't believe a single thing Jerry posts.  His comments are suspect, and all made up lies, because he can't cite to his sources, and if he does, it's probably made up.  Also he's so obsessed with the Clintons, he can't help himself. He even plays with Clinton dolls
Hillary Clinton comparison of Barack Obama to George Bush reminds me of LBJ poking fun of John F Kennedy experience.

FYI: Hillary Clinton doesn't have any credibility to compare Barack Obama to George Bush because Hillary follows Bush to the war while Obama didn't.

Another day another Hillary Clinton story..lol...
There goes that Bill telling so many lies at once no one bothers to check.
Juxtapose this with Wile E. Coyote, "super genius"
Present!
JERRY  WHAT FRIENDS DOES BILL HAVE? THATS WHY HIS  OFFICE IS IN HARLEM, THE CRACKHEADS DONT CARE. AS ONE OF HIS BLACK CRONIES SAID, BILL HAS HAD MORE BLACK WOMEN THAN MAGIC JOHNSON AND MARTIN LUTHER KING.  iM ORGINALLY FROM ARKANSAS AND I VOTED FOR HIM ONCE, TILL I FOUND OUT WHAT A SLEAZE HE WAS.  WHAT A COUNTRY WE LIVE IN, WE GET RID OF A PERVERT, AND ALL THE PERVERT WORSHIPPERS WANT HIS WIFE IN THE WHITEHOUSE, WHO SHE ALSO WORSHIPS.
Jerry,

Some of your comments are just too hillarious...
Now the groups that don't support him are all, "HUGE UNREGULATED special interests", INCLUDING, apparently  the unions he lobbied unsuccessfully for that same nod.
Do you think Barack would be singing the same sad song, if HE had the support that Clinton and Edwards have, and that he too sought from these groups? What do they call it when you have one standard for yourself and a different one for everyone else again? The best part is that he's using it to squeeze more money out of his supporters. It will probably work too...


Van
vanreuter, NY NY (Sent Thursday, December 20, 2007 5:53 PM)



Van, this a comment you added to a post about the mailer Barack's campaign had sent out to donor's. Even tho he did'nt have the support of the AFSCME in Iowa, he was pointing out in the mailer how much groups had spent so far on the campaign's of other's. I'd like to ask you, if this info is true, then what possesed you to call this man a Hypocrit for it. So i don't havta post the line later, here it is."What do they call it when you have one standard for yourself and a different one for everyone else again?I had to read this a couple times to make sure you had actually called this man a Hypocrit for telling the Truth.

This is typical pattern for Hillary supporter's who see her campaign Freefalling & unable to stop.Hillary's campaign surragtes have called him a Muslin, drug dealer, & who knows what else has been said in private. Inquiring minds want to know to know Van.


BTW, Carrie from Iowa, i seen your post also Wishing everyone   would just shut the hell up. Well carrie, we also wish you would just shut the hell up, also.

" DELUSIONAL THINKING BY COMMON SENSE AMERICAN'S IS OVER.
"I doubt very much if "genius" was his first choice of a noun after the adjective "world class"."

Do you guys ever wonder what the popularity of the Clintons would be if we knew what 's really on their mind?

I am sick of hearing about present votes. The information on why he voted that way is available to anyone who looks for it, but in a nutshell he was lodging a protest against legislation by voting present. In the case of the abortion vote, the abortion-rights group ASKED HIM to vote that way, when he wanted to vote no. Obama has also voted present to protest unconstitutional bills as well as bills that simply demand action from local government without providing funding.

In other words, he had damn good reason to vote present every time he did, and he only did it a few hundred times out of thousands of votes.

Hillary supporters give way too much credit to everything she says, without trying to find out if it's true or not. What IS true is that Obama predicted exactly what would happen in Iraq back in October of 02, while Hillary voted for it like a coward.
I find it interesting that two weeks ago the comments were lit up with people explaining to us that Senator Obama's time in the Illinois State Senate was irrelevant and should not be counted as experience for the Presidency.

Now those same people would have us believe that the 3% of the time that he voted "present" represents the scandal of the century and should disqualify him from the Presidency. Whatever the issue, and whatever the reason for voting "present", to say that these votes represent a lack of "courage" is laughable.

No one who DARES challenge Senator Clinton's RIGHT to be President can afford to be short on courage, because you will surely need it to survive the onslaught of lies and innuendo from her "supporters".

It seems to me that it is Senator Clinton who is lacking the courage to be herself and say what she really thinks and let the chips fall where they may. That would make her alot more likeable than endorsements from her mom.

Merry Christmas everyone and may god bless us all.
Politics can wait till next year, for now, hug your children, kiss your parents and thank them for all they have done for you, enjoy your time with friends, count your blessings and take a reality check, in the end we are still the greatest country and will continue to be so, no matter who wins the White House, democracy shines and we are the product of that light. See you next year.
World class genius?  "Clever" is more accurate.
As as stated before:
Bill Clinton’s performance on the Charlie Rose Show on Friday night showed a defensive, angry, and off message former president trying desperately to sell his wife’s faltering candidacy. Throughout the interview, Clinton repeatedly tried to disparage Obama’s experience, and, in the process, distorted some important aspects of American presidential history (including his own) while conveniently forgetting about others.
First, he brazenly claimed that he hadn’t run for president in 1988 because "in my bones I did not feel I was ready" to be president. Noting that "I had several governors urging me to run," the former president tried to leave the impression that it was his wisdom in recognizing his own inexperience that led him to take himself out of the race. While this version of history may be convenient for the husband of a candidate falling behind Barack Obama in the early primaries, it is simply not true. It’s another Clinton rewrite on history.
Those who were there when Governor Clinton suddenly decided not to run in 1988 will clearly recall that it was solely because of the serious threat of his extra-marital affairs seeing the light of day. It had nothing to do with experience.
He had seen what happened to Gary Hart and knew that he could not risk the same outing. After running a strong but losing race against Walter Mondale in 1984, Hart was heavily favored for the 1988 nomination until he dared reporters to follow him after they raised questions about extra-marital affairs. They took him up on his offer and ran right into his tryst with Donna Rice. The resulting publicity knocked Hart out of the presidential running. This was not the time for Bill Clinton to venture into a presidential race with the formidable baggage he was carrying.
To make Bill Clinton understand this, his former chief of staff Betsey Wright sat down with him and made him list the names of all of the women with whom he had been involved. Through this exercise, she forced him to confront the political peril they posed. Sobered, Clinton decided not to run.
The former president's memory of history was equally faulty when he rhetorically questioned whether America had ever elected a president as inexperienced as Obama. The answer is: yes, we have -- and they turned out to be the two greatest presidents of the 20th Century. Woodrow Wilson was first elected to public office in 1908 when he was chosen to be governor of New Jersey. Four years later, he was in the White House. Franklin Delano Roosevelt was first elected governor of New York State in 1928 and became president four years later.
If Obama, elected to the U.S. Senate in 2004, becomes president in 2008, he will have exactly duplicated the experience in statewide elected office of Wilson and FDR. Wilson's previous experience as president of Princeton and FDR's as a one term State Senator and defeated VP candidate, presumably are not far from Obama's six year tenure in the Illinois State Senate as far as experience goes.
But it was not his failure to recall history accurately that led his apparently panicked aides -- as reported on air by Rose -- to push for an end to the embarrassing interview. It was that Bill had taken off the gloves by implying that electing Obama was risk for the American people. And he appeared to agree when Rose characterized the former president's views as suggesting that electing Obama would be "a roll of the dice."
When Hillary or Bill attack Obama, they only antagonize voters. Particularly at risk are the black voters who make up the bulk of the Democratic electorate in South Carolina and who will heavily influence the Florida primary vote as well. Reeling from a week of ill considered personal attacks on Obama, the Clinton campaign sought to recover its footing only to stumble badly once again when an out-of-control spouse, who happens to have been president, put them back in the doghouse with Democratic voters.
Sometimes even a loyal husband does more harm than good – ESPECIALLY WHEN HE`S TRANSPARENTLY AVOIDING THE TRUTH.

If this is what will be in the white house
we will all suffer. The clintons can`t remember a damn thing that shaped our history, not to mention the things that they have done in the past and they/he calls this "GENIUS", I think NOT.

END 15 YEARS OF DARKNESS AND CORRUPTION
NO MORE BUSHS/CLINTONS................
NO MORE REPUBLICANS/CLINTONS..........

Best Ticket: OBAMA/EDWARDS '08

WHAT WE NEED IS CHANGE, AND OBAMA IS THE MAN TO DO IT!! HE HAS STOOD BEHIND ALL THAT HE HAS STATED, HE DOES NOT FLIP FLOP JUST TO GET THE SIDES OF THE AUDIENCE.
Barack demonstrates his intelligence and judgment by stating the obvious.
The fact Hillary has absolutely nothing to show in terms of accomplishments, both in the senate and outside of her husbands political career.

She has no ground to stand on.


OBAMA 08'
Best Ticket: OBAMA/EDWARDS '08
Here's a link to an article on 'the Bill factor' in Hillary's campaign.  The guy has become a megalomaniac.  And to think, I voted for him twice!
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/12/how_do_you_solve_a_problem_lik.html

People, for better and for worse, the Clinton years are over.  We have no need to return back to their histrionics, their manipulations their
us-against-them mentality that consumed their administration and prevented it from accomplishing what it otherwise had the potential to accomplish.  

It doesn't take any great intelligence to see how the Clintonistas are sniping aggressively at Obama because his onslaught is not only surprising to them, but seriously threatening.  Instead of countering his positions by delineating differences in policies, the Clintons are resorting to the old Republican techniques of character assassination.  As Ed Schultz said last night (while debating Hillary surrogate Mark Green on Chris Matthews, last night), and I paraphrase, 'the way the campaign is run, is an indication of how the administration will govern.'
Obama '08
BTW FR staff, Happy Holidays and thanks for providing this very excellent venue for us to express our political feelings.  It gives my wife some peace of mind.
Ron, TX, after reading lots of comment's on here, I havta say, your post  somewhere concerning Hillary being ready on day 1 is already a failure is very accurate. With Bush 1 & 2 laying that idea to rest very quickly, it shot down any chance of her argument being ready to lead on day 1.


' DELUSIONAL THINKING BY COMMON SENSE AMERICAN'S IS OVER"
Dot- about the "present votes"  Obama registered 130 out of 4000 votes as present.  He did so for a variety of reasons such as Democratic party endorsed tactic, pro-life endorsed tactic, or he objected to the laws constitutionality.  The Republicans were in control of the Illinois Senate at the time, and so the Democrats didn't have much control over what went into bills.  Sometimes bills contain a bunch of unrelated things in them.  Most of the bill may be something good that has overall support, but the bill might also contain something that is vehemently objected to by a candidate.  A Hypothetical example - the republicans could put forward a bill that abolished taxes on corporations, but that also contained funding for Children's health insurance.  Dems who were outnumbered knew the vote was going to pass.  I they vote against it, then in the next election there will be an attack add running that said the candidate voted against funding the children's health insurance.

This was/is a regularly used tool in the Illinois legislature, which is why Obama said it was silly for it to now be brought up as a to try and sully his record.  He mentions Iraq to make this point, that was the most important vote since forever and all of his oppenents got it wrong.  Which one of these voting records should the media be discussing?

It does matter, it should matter.  Do you want someone who says she can lead from day one (no proof to back that up), or someone with a history of getting it right the first time?
I just find it so funny how the trifecta of Scroll all managed to quote the exact disgusting Republican rhetoric. Hillary Clinton can't win? Who, pray tell, could possibly beat her out in a general election? You say Hillary is polarizing, the current President isn't even approved by one in 4 people being polled. He was "elected" twice... which really was once, but I think we all know a Gore presidency is pretty much pre-eminent.

Yeah, Fox says Hillary is winning, because she would lose. You really underestimate the number of yellow dog democrats out there that would give up limbs off their body to get Hillary into office.

There's just an equal amount that would do anything to get anyone but a Republican into office, not to mention that over 60% of all nationwide registered independants plan on picking a Democrat this year.

Kerry won, if you discount the cheating in Ohio, and he won only collecting something like 53% of the Independants.

So to the legions of scroll, Bee, Jerry, Sierra, Dave... hate her all you want, she's winning and I will be crowing, as always how stupid you all are, for one, and that my girl Hillary won, secondly.
I think geniuses usually pass their bar exams the first time around.  Nice try.  
Jerry,

Some of your comments are just too hillarious...

Bee, NH (Sent Friday, December 21, 2007 10:08 AM)


That's why Obama calls this the "silly season"
On this morning's "Morning Joe," Obama explained that he voted "present" 108 times out of 4000 votes, and that these "present" votes had to do with bills that he thought were written in such a way as to not stand up to judicial scrutiny, or just plain badly written. He didn't want to vote against the idea of the bill, just the way the bill was written.
hillary was a bad girl this year and won't be getting any presents
A Bill Clinton-related post:  God, I hope Hillary gets elected.  Our comedians are going to need the material.  The Clintons in a way, would help boost jobs.


"And, Clinton said, he thought he won then in part because people thought he “was more tuned in” to the day’s challenges. “There’s no question that Hillary is not out of touch,”"
***High praise from the candidate's husband.  After touting his personable personality, he very strongly endorsed his wife saying she's not completely out of touch with the average American citizen.  Is she tuned in?  Well, I won't go that far, but she doesn't fail either, and that has to count for something.


Hundt said. ‘It's not right for a former president to get out there and be demeaning any of our candidates.”
--He's also a spouse, Elizabeth Edwards is also strong-willed.  So as a spouse it's okay, but as a President its not?  I guess it is my belief that a Fmr. Pres. can support his wife; although, he should not claim objectivity as Bill does.  It is also pretty classless for a Fmr. Pres. to attack candidates running for President within his or her party, which Bill also does.  All I know is that roughly 50% of Democrats support Hillary out of loyalty for Mr. Clinton, who is at this moment showing poor leadership.  The Democratic party fails and needs new leadership.  Who does/did Hundt support, was/is it the Clintons or another candidate?


"Playing the victim card? Bill Clinton in his conversation with the Concord Monitor editorial board: “‘If people think she's a little too edgy, I'd ask them to just remember what she's been through in the last 15 years.’"
--Does the Clinton campaign ever stop to think that if she's 'gone through hell' for the past 15 years, some of it might be their fault.  Say, a failing of tactics and bipartisanship?



By the way, is Clinton the only campaign that's gotten its congressional surrogates to attack a fellow colleague?
--Here is why.  Murder by suicide.  It is an admittance that they cannot stop Barack Obama.  Their very public strategy was to maintain inevitability and keep the charismatic Obama in the gates.  Recently they failed on both accounts.  By attacking B.H. Obama in such a way, they have halted him at the expense of themselves.  I'm not going to say it's wrong, it's politics, but don't pretend that isn't what's happening.  They say it has not connection to the campaign and everybody gets fired or resigns afterwards.  Such wonderful soldiers.  I'll let it go once, maybe twice, heck even a third time, but it's just becoming ridiculous or as B.H. Obama would say, "Silly Season."
I'd rather have a cup of coffee with crazy Jerry than with the delusional "Hillary Lover".

She's a genius at getting herself ahead.  That's it.

Tell me one thing she believes in, I ask folks her supporters-- and they always list every issue under the sun.  Those are not beliefs, they are lines to win an election.  It's all about the Clintons.  

No more Clintons.  Edwards and Obama all-the-way.
not that my opinion matters. i am an independent that really likes biden. the msm is basically shutting him, dodd, richardson and kucinich out.

msm and it's corporate establisment agenda have a vested interested in seeing the clinton's win. they are going to pour in everything they have using what ever vehicles msm has at their disposal to get hillary in. the clinton's ties to corporate america has been deep since bill was governor. it has gotten deeper and more vast since bill's presidency and beyond.

corporate america can't afford to let a biden, dodd, richardson, edwards or obama candidate win. they are going to have to share and compromise.

do anyone here actually believe that the clinton's are going to actually look out for the average americans interest beyond their own money making machine.

let's look at their corporate and foreign financial favor indebtedness.

not only have they received recent contributions from the saudi's, dubai, and other middle east countries. they also have in the past recieved large financial contributions from china. they have ties to south korea, thailand and india for financial gifts.

they are already looking at possible inquiries about contributions from the ceo of the radcliffe foundation. he lied about a 30 million dollar contribution to the clinton foundation.

they haven't even gotten to the white house and patterns of the past are already developing.

a wallstreet representative has said that they would feel better about working with hillary than any other candidate. the writing is on the wall.

the lieng on the other candidates. smearing others reputations with lies and inuendos. spinning words to say that what they originally said wasn't what the stood for. placing ad's that try to blame another candidate for something that they or a representative of theirs ahs done. continual misinformation about other candidates. refusing to let her documented experienced involvement at the white house be seen(national archives has come out and said that the clinton's are holding up the release of the verifying papers  
Oscar-- I hate Hillary, but you've obviously never taken a bar exam. It has nothing to do with genius.
Ron, TX, after reading lots of comment's on here, I havta say, your post  somewhere concerning Hillary being ready on day 1 is already a failure is very accurate. With Bush 1 & 2 laying that idea to rest very quickly, it shot down any chance of her argument being ready to lead on day 1.
Rick,ky (Sent Friday, December 21, 2007 10:48 AM)


I think you are right.  On face value, it's not entirely obvious how meaningful and telling this recent Clinton failure actually is, but in all reality, it highlights a very real and serious issue- Will Hillary -actually- be able to bring parties together?  It seems the answer is no.
------

"Well, the first thing she intends to do, because you can do this without passing a bill, the first thing she intends to do is to send me and former President Bush and a number of other people around the world to tell them that America is open for business and cooperation again," Clinton said in response to a question from a supporter about what his wife's "number one priority" would be as president.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/18/bill-clinton-george-hw-bush-will-help-president-hillary/
Former President George H.W. Bush has shot down his successor Bill Clinton’s idea of a diplomatic mission under a Hillary Clinton presidency that would send him and other notables abroad to assure other nations that “America is open for business and cooperation again.”
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/18/elder-bush-nixes-clinton-trip-idea/

So basically, Hillary isn't even in the White House yet, and she ALREADY FAILED to accomplish not only the -first thing- she plans to do, but also her number one priority...
VAN, WHY DID YOU CALL BARACK A HYPOCRIT?
David Anders wrote: "JERRY  WHAT FRIENDS DOES BILL HAVE? THATS WHY HIS  OFFICE IS IN HARLEM, THE CRACKHEADS DONT CARE. AS ONE OF HIS BLACK CRONIES "


Hey, anyone ever wonder why reps. have a reputation for being racist?
I am confused by Senator Obama's answer to the question about his "present" votes in the Illinois Senate. He said "its now the silly season in the campaign and that he has lead on important issues Like Iraq.  Iraq?  While in the Illinos Senate?  So he must have been going back to the previous questions which leaves the question on "present" votes unanswered.  While not an important issue in itself, a definitve answer would put that question to rest.

Dot, Illinois (Sent Friday, December 21, 2007 9:35 AM)

Dot:

I listened to Obama on Morning Joe today, and his first response to the question on present votes was exactly the same as it was on Today - that it was silly and that these were "not serious" questions.

With all due respect to the Senator, I think I will decide for myself what is serious.  

Dot, if you are interested in reading a more concentrated debate regarding these votes, please visit Civil Discourse:  http://www.civildiscourse.com/index.php?s=23327bfd74a8aae3896af3d44be294c3&showtopic=1066
Actually, Obama said that his strategy when a bill was poorly written was to vote present.  He also acknowledged that many of the present votes were done in compliance with party strategies, including strategies implemented by pro-choice groups.

His entire campaign is predicated on him not playing politics, but standing up for what he knows is right and what he believes in.  Yet in the IL Senate, he played politics along with everyone else.  Whether there wasa good reason for it, to me, is irrelevant.  He is selling a message of change, and yet he contributed to the problem himself by choosing politically strategic votes rather than voting the way he believed.  
The electability issue...is important.  But there seems to be no agreement on it.  I think conventional wisdom indicates that Hillary is at a disadvantage due to her unfavorability numbers.  But the Clinton campaign continues to assert they are the most electable despite the fact that almost 50% of the country say they don't like her at all.  Why do Hilllary's supporters want to try and jam Hillary down the rest of the countries throat?  Why do they continue to unquestionably believe everything she says?  She is not the most electable, not the most experienced, not for change, and not a "world class genius."  Another example of the Clinton's over stating their case.

I hate to bring this up (because it's a dark time in the history of the presidency), but why does any believe a thing this guy says.  Remember when he looked us in the eye and said, "I did not have sexual relations with this woman."  He is a proven liar. I don't really care about him having an affair (that's between him and Hillary).  But I do care that he disgraced the oval office and I do care that he is a proven liar.  How many other times has he lied to the American people?  Why should we listen let alone believe a thing he says.  He is a world class liar.  Hillary is guilty by association, but I believe it goes a lot deeper than that.

Vote for honesty, vote for change!  I wish the American people could get a more serious look at all the candidates that are worthy, but Clinton is preventing that.
This means nothing -- you can't possibly take any numbers posted by a FOX News poll seriously.  They're an entertainment channel, not a news source.   C'mon people, be real.  
When you hold yourself to a different standard than you do others. it's called a DOUBLE-STANDARD! Thanks for playing.

As to taking umbrage and letting fly with the invective, because you felt that I was IMPLYING that senator Obama was being hypocritical, because you would NEVER imply anything negative about senator Clinton;

"Carrie from Iowa, You should just shut the Hell up. She stood beside him & defended his lie to the WORLD. Don't give me that poor poor Hillary crap. This country is ABSOLUTELY SICK & TIRED OF THEIR KINDA POLITICS.Thinking voter's are fool's & can't think for themselves or remember the past.You have gall to tell other's to shut the Hell up, considering you explain yourself to be for Biden, when you do nothing but slam Barack & Sing ' HAIL TO THE QUEEN ", nonstop, 24-7 on here.Maybe you are so insecure that you need someone to tell you How, What, When, Where, Newsflash, 44% of the country Despises Hillary, put an Independent into the mix & it's another asswhooping for us Democrat's. So my word's to you are" SHUT THE HELL UP , CARRIE FROM IOWA"

" DELUSIONAL THINKING BY COMMON SENSE AMERICAN'S IS OVER"


Maybe you just enjoy be Lied to carrie from Iowa.
Rick,ky (Sent Thursday, December 20, 2007 7:53 PM)



What was your point again? Something about a double-standard?


Van
(Hoisted on your own petard)

vanreuter, NY NY (Sent Friday, December 21, 2007 11:32 AM)
Rick,ky-

It's HYPOCRITE.
If you're going to whine about something you believe I implied, it would serve you case to take the trouble to spell the word correctly.

"Psychology of hypocrisy

In psychology, hypocritical behavior is closely related to the fundamental attribution error: individuals are more likely to explain their own actions by their environment, yet they attribute the actions of others to 'innate characteristics', thus leading towards judging others while justifying ones' own actions. [7]

Also, some people genuinely fail to recognize that they have character faults which they condemn in others. This is called Psychological projection. This is Self-deception rather than deliberate deception of other people. In other words, "Psychological hypocrisy" is usually interpreted by psychological theorists to be an unconscious defense mechanism rather than a conscious act of deception, as in the more classic connotation of hypocrisy. People understand vices which they are struggling to overcome or have overcome in the past. Efforts to get other people to overcome such vices may be sincere. There may be an element of hypocrisy as well if the actors do not readily admit to themselves how far they are or have been subject to these vices."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy


"A double standard, according to the World Book Dictionary, is a standard applied more leniently to one group than to another. For example, a belief that it is permissible for teenage boys, but not teenage girls, to engage in premarital sex is a double standard.

When judicial processes are applied more strictly to some people more than others, such double standards are seen as unjust because they violate a basic maxim of modern legal jurisprudence, that all parties should stand equal before the law. Double standards also violate the principle of justice known as impartiality, which is based on the assumption that the same standards should be applied to all people, without regard to subjective bias or favoritism based on social class, rank, ethnicity, gender or other distinction. A double standard violates this principle by holding different people accountable according to different standards.

There is a distinction to be made between double standards and hypocrisy, which implies the stated or presumed acceptance of a single standard a person claims to hold himself or herself accountable to, but which in practice may be disregarded. If a man believes it is his right to have extra-marital affairs, but that his wife does not have such a right, he holds a double standard. A man who pretends to condemn extramarital affairs while maintaining his mistress is a hypocrite."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_standard

Van
Actually, Obama said that his strategy when a bill was poorly written was to vote present.  He also acknowledged that many of the present votes were done in compliance with party strategies, including strategies implemented by pro-choice groups.

His entire campaign is predicated on him not playing politics, but standing up for what he knows is right and what he believes in.  Yet in the IL Senate, he played politics along with everyone else.  Whether there wasa good reason for it, to me, is irrelevant.  He is selling a message of change, and yet he contributed to the problem himself by choosing politically strategic votes rather than voting the way he believed.

Carrie, Eastern Iowa (Sent Friday, December 21, 2007 12:11 PM)

Carrie,

Being in the minority, his options were pretty limited. If the Republicans were writing legislation that looked good on the surface, but included other tidbits that might actually have hurt the cause(s) that Obama believes in, it is most expedient to vote "present".

And his campaign is not against politics, it's against the type of politics we have now, which is basically do whatever you can to get elected and do whatever you can to help the party. Rather, his campaign believes it is time to do what is best for the country before the party. Of course you have to play the political game to be able to do that, but there is a difference between the game that has been played in Washington for far too long (benefitting the few at the expense of the many) and the game that might actually help put us back on the path that brings the country together.

Unfortunately, both are games. But there is no other way around it. I am supporting Obama because I trust that he genuinely believes he can do it, and that he is best equipped to do it. As good of a person (I assume) and politician as Hillary Clinton is, I just do not trust that she is as genuine as Obama.

And let's face it: neither Clinton nor Obama have EXECUTIVE experience. There is no job or office you can hold that will prepare you to be the President. State Senator, U.S. Senator - doesn't matter. That's why there is a Cabinet and advisors. Judgement is key, and I believe Obama's is better than Clinton's.
Dont u guys see what bill is doing . why would he say she is a geinus the qualify it with helping other people . Too highlite that she was not smart enough to pass the bar test. Think about it , he has been saying stupid things all campian . Really , after being pres. for two terms ,who wants to be know as first (female dog) in the white house. its ethier that or he is coming down with alltimeerzs.


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