I love when Mark Penn has to eat his words.

The American people need to realize that a candidate will lead the country in the same way that they run a campaign.  Let's take a look at who is running a negative, divisive, secretive campaign and decide if that is what we want in the White House.

Like i have said in the past, pay attention to the early states poll numbers. The new gallop poll pretty much sum up how ineffective Clinton’s negative attack on Obama has been.

If Obama can do well in IA and NH, the Clinton’s campaign should just forget about South Carolina and Nevada.

It makes me so happy when I see Clinton falling and Obama rising.  It means America has hope again, hope to be a better nation, and hope for REAL CHANGE in one year...  If Clinton is elected, on January 21, 2009, the world will look and feel pretty much the same.  Another Clinton in office, another day like any other.  If Obama is elected, the world will look and feel like a whole new place with an America that can -lead-.  We must send a message of REAL CHANGE to the world.  We won't settle for war-hawk diplomacy and typical replays of our current foreign affairs.  We -desperately need change- and Obama can make it happen.

Oh the AGONY!
I can't vote for Hillary.She is just not Just towards the poor.The system is still too gross.Full of underhanded duplicities and exasperations.Yeah, people make their choices...right.

I can't vote for obama. I'm a real christian.That's almost sacreligious for me. But I'm sure there are muslims who would admit they are not at all exactly unlike me....They just wouldn't encourage or condone voting for a christian....well if they are actually that peaceful about it.

And DANG IT!I thought Edwards was darn nice looking.I know...some vote for obama because they think he is cute,but I have to differ.

Now I'm left with the GOP
Lets see..
A morman... for CRYING OUT LOUD!
For the record...MORMANS ARE NOT CHRISTIANS!!

OK...then theres a new yorker.You know he's about the bling bling. But does he share? I'm a christian.If you don't like to share the bling bling.NO!

McCain...I still don't get what happened.Now if its about that pesky oil issue in Iraq.I have no problem rescuing us both.Just give the stuff to me and I'll cash in! The church needs their cut to help people in Gods will and I despise a mundane lifestyle.I feel No guilt!:))))

If Obama is the Dem nominee, then expect another republican administration.  Vote Hillary!

And yesterday's CNN/Wash Post poll had Hillary with a double digit lead over Obama in NH.

Just goes to show you can pick and choose whatever poll makes you feel better.  No one's going to know for sure until Jan 3.

HILLARY '08

Latest NH polls show that Hillary is resurgent;

ARG 12/16-19 Clinton-38 Obama-24

USA 12/10-19 Clinton-32 Obama-32

RAS 12/18    Clinton-31 Obama-28

CNN 12/13-17 Clinton-38 Obama-26

RCP average Clinton-34.0 Obama-27.8 Clinton by 6.2

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/nh/new_hampshire_democratic_primary-194.html#polls


Van

For accuracy sake, it was the CNN/WMUR poll that has Hillary up by 12 points in NH, NOT CNN/Wash Post.

My bad.

In all other polls she has a commanding lead over Obama in NH - this is the FIRST and ONLY poll to show a dead heat. Just goes to show these polls are as volatile as some of the moods on this board.

We'll just have to wait and see....

Jennifer Hunt- I'm not sure whether you are uninformed or being sarcastic here but here is the facts about Obama.  He is a member of the United Church of Christ.  

He is not nor has ever been a Muslim.  His father is a muslim, but he has had very little contact with him.  He spent four of his childhood years in Indonesia where he attended a secular public school (not a Madrassa).

Please do not spread false rumors about Obama's faith.  I am a christian as well, and if you are "real christian" you wouldn't be so judgemental of people who are different than you.  That is not what Jesus Christ taught his disciples.  Think about it.

Another biased report... Why don't you mention the other polls: Opinion Dynamics, ARG, Suffolk which have Hillary up substantially in New Hampshire? You got it!

Just go to the Realclearpolitics website and they can help you out.  God, the bias never ends.

How about a mention or two of the Survey Usa polls which show Clinton in a much stronger overall general election fight with the Republican potential nominees than Saint Barack. Nary a word about it.

You got it!!

VOTE HILLARY,,,,SHE IS WHAT WE NEED.

Frankly I am done with the current President, I am done with the President before him and I am done with the current presidents Daddy. I Don't even want to deal with the current Presidents predecessors Wife taking over for the current president whose brother couldn't run for the job as planned due to the amazing failure of his brother the current President as compared to their fathers performance as President before he lost to the current Democratic front runners husband.
When you've lost your way, at some point you have nothing to lose in choosing another direction.
These people have had their chance for the past 20 years. They do not need 8 more.
We can do better.
Change NOW!
Change for the sake of Change!

Jennifer, nobody gives a damn if you're a Christian.  Jesus wasn't in politics and Christianity shouldn't be either!

Someone could tell you that they're going to take all of your rights away and you would still vote for them if they banged the bible enough.  Moron

jennifer, obama is not a muslim. he has been a christian for at least 20 years. you have a need to believe he is a muslim. the time he has been a christian is a proven fact. you can check on this, but have a need not to.

if you really wanted to know the truth about obama's religous belief you would check in to it. for some reason you need to find a reason to disguise your real reason for not voting for him.

it is o.k. not to support obama. my first choice is biden and still wish he could break through, but msm isn't going to allow that.

i have viewed so many of your post. you have a need to believe this viscious lie about this man. i just wonder what your real reason for dislike of him is because it isn't that he is a muslim. he surely is not that.

why don't you reveal your actual reason for not liking obama and stop saying it is because he is a muslim. because that is far from the truth.

How a candidate runs their campaign tells you a lot about how they will run the country.  We've seen how Clinton has run her campaign - negative and dirty.

How does Obama run his?

"Obama runs tight campaign ship"

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1207/7508.html

Jennifer,

Enuff already! Obama is a Christian and a Member
of the United Church of Christ. The same church
in Chicago where my wife was baptised and my
kids attended Sunday School. Even Fox News disputes
the contention that he is not Christian.

Jennifer,

Enuff already! Obama is a Christian and a Member
of the United Church of Christ. The same church
in Chicago where my wife was baptised and my
kids attended Sunday School. Even Fox News disputes
the contention that he is not Christian.

This is the transcript from last night's Anderson Cooper's Raw Politics
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0712/20/acd.01.html


In it the Clinton camp was accused of using the 'race card'

From CNN Raw politics for 12/20/07:

'... want to read you something that "TIME" magazine's
editor at large mentioned to "The Washington Post,"
Mark Halperin. He said: "She's just held to a
different standard in every respect. The press rooted
for Obama to go negative. When he did, he was
applauded. When she does it, it's treated as this huge
violation of propriety. It's not a level playing
field."

JENNIFER DONAHUE, SENIOR ADVISER FOR POLITICAL
AFFAIRS, NEW HAMPSHIRE INSTITUTE OF POLITICS AT SAINT
ANSELM COLLEGE: Well, they're doing it in an entirely
different way.

When Barack Obama went negative on Hillary Clinton, he
did it after Edwards did, first of all,. He grilled it
and got it ready. And then Obama flipped it, and he
basically did it in a way that was policy-based,
issue-based.

What Kerry did the other day and what happened last
week on the drug issue with Shaheen, and, moreover,
with Mark Penn, who then kept repeating it over and
over and over, they're playing the race card. This is
not some small thing where they're saying, like Gore
did about Bradley in 2000, he wanted to raise the
retirement age, when, in fact, he didn't.

This is the race card. They're attacking his race. And
I think it's really above the pale. Voters here don't
like it.

COOPER: David Gergen, do you agree with that?

GERGEN: No, I don't, I don't think they're playing the
race card at all. He happens to be black. He also
happens to be a very major, dramatic candidate.

(CROSSTALK)

DONAHUE: You don't think that saying that -- that --
that selling drugs, and that, did he buy it, did he
use them, did he sell them, has anything to do with
race?

GERGEN: Wait a minute. We went through a whole
campaign back in 2000 in New Hampshire about George
Bush and drugs, and he happened to be white.

We have had various other candidates who happened to
have been white, there have been questions raised
about their drug usage. I do think, when you start
using the word cocaine, as Mark Penn did, it does
suggest it, and I think it can have some
reverberations.

But I think it is unfair to say that they're playing
the race card. I do think they have been clumsy, but I
think they're -- playing the race card suggests it's
racially motivated and, in effect, it's racist. I
think that's unfair to them.

COOPER: John King?

DONAHUE: Well, I guess -- if I could just really
quickly...

KING: Anderson, I'm getting e-mails -- as we're having
this discussion, Anderson -- as we're having this
discussion, I'm getting e-mails from Democrats. One of
them suggests, go to the Web site
hillaryattacksbarackobama.com. They say that is an
Obama Web site. I can't tell you if that is true or
not.

But this is the kind of thing that happens at this
point in a campaign. The Clinton campaign would also
point out, very early in the campaign, an Obama press
release said, "Hillary Clinton D-Punjab," making fun
of the money she was raising from Indian sources that
the Obama campaign was questioning. Senator Obama had
to apologize for that.

So, there's a lot of this from all camps in the
campaign, some of it authorized, some of it not, some
of it done by kids who go overboard in their first
campaign, especially their first presidential
campaign.

But does it matter in electing a president? I don't
really know. It's not much about the economy. It's not
much about what you do in Iraq.

(CROSSTALK)

KING: But it does set the tone of the campaign.

COOPER: Jennifer?

DONAHUE: Anderson, can I just jump in? Because I want
to hear David's perspective.

I mean, would you also say, then, that Huckabee is not
playing the religion card against Romney?

GERGEN: No, I think he is playing the religion card.

But that's -- that's said in a positive way. But I
think, when you say somebody is playing a race card,
you suggest that they have racist motives and they
have a racist quality to them.

DONAHUE: I don't -- well, I guess I don't...

GERGEN: I think that's unfair to the people involved.

DONAHUE: They're trying to -- but don't you think -- I
don't mean that Hillary Clinton is trying to play a
race card, but I think that they're bringing up the
issue of fear of African-Americans in a way that is
either intentional or not, but is real....;

Is this Clinton campaign using the 'race card' ?
Is the Clinton campaign 'too ethical' to do so ?

Does anyone remember the 'Hope Fund' dust up ?
Remember all the one line posts with Clinton 'talking points' ?
Compare those posts to the posts we're getting now about 'cocaine' and 'Obama is a muslim'

Any similarities ?
Are they produced by the Clinton campaign in both instances ?

J'accuse !!

Yes, now weeks after the coverage of a McCain comeback began (actually, those stories began sporadically popping up in SEPTEMBER), the public has decided to give him a second look, now finally resulting in a poll number increase.

Only problem is, pundits are supposed to report the news, not influence it.

This is one independent voter who sees the Republican establishment behind the scenes jumping back to McCain from Giuliani, resulting from the scare of potentially seeing Huckabee win the nomination; there is nothing remotely grassroots about a storyline forced through the national press, so I ask the punditry to stop insulting our intelligence and drops the false pretense.

Polls are nothing more than horserace story editors' fluff pieces. Remember, Kerry was pretty much owning Bush in all the debates, polls, and exit polls and ended up losing.

As far as all this silliness in regards to another Clinton in office another day as planned - there's been one Clinton in office.

There's been at least 2 senators named Dodd, both ran for President, there's been 2 presidents in the Bush family... well 3 if you consider Nathaniel Pierce, direct descendant of Daddy Bush, and I can bet you all tons of money that when the Republicans lose this election Jeb will be their nominee within the next few cycles.

Only problem, Pierce was hated by his party and didn't even win re-election for his own party.

Daddy Bush ruined the economy and entered into 2 needless wars.

W... this biggest disaster in American politics since, well Nathaniel Pierce, 3 needless wars, ruined economy, and oh look... now even Republicans are saying he's full of the same S#$&% he's been spewing from the beginning.

How are those CIA tapes coming along Cheney and Bush? Oh, wait, Gonzalez is getting strapped with most of the blame, because he's you know... disgraced and everything.

Then we have the Kennedys

I agree with Paul, these polls are all over the map. They do not poll people with cell phone and the polls are done with DEMS only, how about the INDEPENDENTS.
Jan 3 will be the judgement day for each candidate,

paul, you are wrong. most recent polls are showing them in a statistical tie. cnn network/ted turner is pro hillary. abc/wallstreet is pro hillary. anything owned by rupert murdoch or the hearst's is going to be pro hillary.

msnbc's chris matthews is not capable of unbias when it comes to the clinton's. he has a personal hate for them. his ranting on morning joe was evidence of that.

what i am saying is this. you can see chris matthews agenda. he is overt with it, but most of media tries to be less obvious with their agenda.

we can't trust polling. hillary and obama are in a dead heat tie in n.h.  in iowa i think that there is a three way tie. i think john edwards is a lot stronger than polls indicate and is the inevitable second place finisher. the question is who is going to be first or third? hillary or obama?

if edwards or biden had more private campaign funds we could have had a 5 way tie, possibly.  

no one can choose polls as evidence of what is going to actually happen. msnbc is pro obama. all the media has an agenda for who they would like elected that will best represent their interest.

it is actually unfortunate that someone like dodd (filibustered congress over fisa) a true leader with experience, biden a foreign policy expert(look at his  record. no one can touch it), or richardson who was energy secretary, , diplomatic emissary for the u.s., state gonernor and more aren't even given the time of day by the media.

polls mean nothing. research is of value, always. truth is of value, always, transparency is of values, always. ethics and morals are of value, always.

i agree with the post that as a candidate runs their campaign is very much indicative of the type of white house they will have.

that is what american presidential political history has shown time and again. so the question is what are we seeing from the candidates? what type of character or lack of character are the candidates revealing to us? on both sides.

Jennifer, Obama is a Christian.

Strategic Vision republican pollsters (Previous poll in parens)with increase/decrease from previous poll.

Obama-30(33)-3 Clinton-27(25)+2Edwards-27(24)+3

Obama down three, Clinton up 2 and Edwards up 3

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/ia/iowa_democratic_caucus-208.html#polls


Van

Van: I call that polling variability; Hillary is hardly resurgent.  The Iowa victory for Obama will give him a ten point boost and will concommitantly eat at Hillary's support.  Their own internals are undoubtedly not good and are the source for all the surrogate nastiness that Team Hillary is unleashing.  After wins in Iowa and NH, SC will fall for Obama as well.  My crystal ball doesn't go beyond those three states but I don't think that these victories will necessarily sew up the nomination for Obama.  In fact, I suspect that there will be a battle royale for the Super Tuesday states.  You're a smart guy Van, despite your pro-Hillary stance, I know that I'm not telling you anything that you don't know.
Obama '08

mark penn and the corrupt clinton machine are the only reason the polls show hillary in contention, what are you bogus poll regurgitators going to do after the vote shows the polls were meaningless and a complete farce? nobody but the beltway 'good ol boy' eletist's and a few deranged feminazi's want hillary, you know who you are, most voters want change and to get away from politics as usual in d.c., and that my friends disqualifies the mrs. (bush lite) clinton, sorry

What is becoming clear is how biased nbc,msnbc is against the Clintons. Obama can not and should not win and as much as the media tries it make it happen it will not...How is this for change Present..Obama is no different from any other politican...change to what..at least the Clintons have proved that they can get the job done and that is why Hillary will get my vote.

:))))))))) :))))))))) :))))))))))) :)))))))))) :))))))))

Hey, I'm not the one that did what obama and their crew did.Their bad.I'm just surfing off the results!Their BAD NOT mine.As a real christian I can and should make corrections.Knowledge is power.Power to the people!Understanding correctly after that mess is a good thing.Don't HATE!Just don't hate!

Funny how Bee was slamming the USA Today poll the other day (when Hillary was ahead), but doesn't knock this one.

Agree with you "Obama Hater" well don't hate him, but do agree if he is nominee, Republicans will win the administration.

all you cats whimpering about how the media is biased against clinton one day, obama the next, if you look back over the coarse of this election cycle the press have been consistently pro clinton and pro obama because they both play the game, edwards is the only dem candidate that the media despises, he doesn’t command the tabloidish  qualities required to keep the media entertained, and doesn’t bow down to the powers that be, and quite frankly scares hell out of  the corporate interests that own the media and the government, good enough reason to vote for him I would say

Oh Wow.  Jennifer, I know you are being sarcatic.  In your post you put every funky thing people have been saying about the contenders.  Maybe if the rest of the posters tuned in to news about all the candidates they would see the joke.

Anyways, you forgot Guiliani, and since you are a Christian you can not possibly endorse a cross-dressing adulterer either.

Besides that, what I find funny is that everyone is posting about MSNBC being against the Clintons.  Just a few months ago I was upset because I thought Chris Matthews for sure was way too much Hillary Clinton, and I thought oh, great....here we go again....just like he was with Bush.  But, it is not MSNBC's fault with the way she is behaving, and her behavior is creating news and they are reporting it.  I personally love it- GO OBAMA!

Oh, and Jennifer, what does being a Christian tell you about Huckabee?  I know he is a good pastor and everything, but what about the rapist/murderer he let walk while he ignored the pleas of his victims?  What do you think of his parenting skills (his son and a friend found a stray dog and hung and mutilated it)?

I will say this, Mormons can be Christians if they want to be.  If Christians are willing to believe that a virgin got knocked up and gave birth to the Son of God who was able to come back from the dead and directly ascend into heaven (don't forget the magic he was able to perform), then why shouldn't the garden of Eden be in the American midwest, and why is it so improbable to believe that Jesus could have came to America- he healed the terminally ill for God's sake!  My problem with Mormonism is that it is a rascist faith, with an anti-African-American past and that they believe Native Americans killed Jesus.  Wouldn't Jesus have killed off the Native Americans with his western infectious diseases before they had the chance to do something like that?

ace p washington, dc

Excellent post. The point I was trying to make was how crazy all of the polls are right now - every day it's a different poll - it's all in who's doing the polling and how and what type of questions they ask.

While I guess we could use them as some type of barometer, but I'm just getting to the point of dismissing them all and waiting for the results on January 3rd like everyone else.

Happy Holidays!

Actually, an ARG poll yesterday has McCain and Romney completely tied completely: http://www.campaigndiaries.com/2007/12/mccain-on-fire-arg-comes-out-with.html

And in TRULY shocking Senate news, Sununu is leading Shaheen in a Senate poll: http://www.campaigndiaries.com/2007/12/morning-polls-has-sununu-made-comeback.html

Hardball's Matthews almost had a heart attack going after Hillary last night, the spittle was rolling down his chin. Ugly, very ugly.
Matthew's has high praise when Obama or Edwards attacks Clinton. However, when she counter punches it's a different story.
It's a Tale of Two Standards on Hardball. I want hard line conservatives out of the White House.
HR Clinton is a proven winner.

Jennifer Hunt - you say "Don't HATE", but looking through all the other posts you have you do nothing but spread hate.  Yet in your mind you are the true Christian and everyone isn't.  Didn't Christ teach something about hypocrisy?

Frankly I am done with the current President, I am done with the President before him and I am done with the current presidents Daddy. I Don't even want to deal with the current Presidents predecessors Wife taking over for the current president whose brother couldn't run for the job as planned due to the amazing failure of his brother the current President as compared to their fathers performance as President before he lost to the current Democratic front runners husband.
When you've lost your way, at some point you have nothing to lose in choosing another direction.
These people have had their chance for the past 20 years. They do not need 8 more.
We can do better.
Change NOW!
Change for the sake of Change!
Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana (Sent Friday, December 21, 2007 10:23 AM)

Mr.Schear, Thank You for this post. They are my sentiments exactly.This 2 family Dictatorship has to END!!

What are you talking about?I don't hate people.I hate certain teachings that are false.Don't hate!
Some of you are big meanies:))e and you know it.You just don't want to be told the diffrence because you only like to hear about religion if it serves your self centered agenda not the truth itself.The truth shall set us free...

I like Hillary just fine, but if she's elected, it will mean up TWENTY-FOUR straight years of presidents named Bush or Clinton.  

Enough of the royal families!  Let's show the world that we are NOT a stagnating, has-been superpower.  

Obama is the man. Our only hope in this period of despair.........................................
I'm sure a lot of American's like me are tired of the same old Clinton politics that will bring us to deadlocked congress and several investigations allegations of corrupt practices etc. It's time for unity, not division. Another Clinton Presidency will divide us further, we need a unifier. Common sense politics of working together towards a common goal. We cannot afford distractions from either party complainining about conspiracy about the other party.
Some of our founders had no experience, but they're intelligent and love this country dearly. That is what we need. A president that genuinely love America and all Americans and desire to bring realistic change to our society.
Hillary is not a uniter and so many republican will refuse to work with her. It will not be different from the Bush Presidency and lack of cooperation from Democrats.  Vote Obama, stand for change and let's revive America's glory.
Obama represents common American and that's what we need right now, not a President that will be controlled by Corporate America.

Nobody has experience being an American president, they all learn on the job. Unless a President that had a 2nd term. President George Bush is supposed to have experience in his 2nd term but she how he messed up things more. Huge deficit, Iraq problems, messed up economy to mention a few.
Obama is smart and real....... He represents the emergency of Future America, full of hope and Glory.

Why is it on Hardball that when Clinton responds to Obama attacks she is "destroying" the candidate?
Obama has no experience unless you factor in voting "present" in the Illinois state senate on over 100 occasions.
Is this leadership, voting "present"?

Jennifer Hunt, I am having a hard time understanding you.  Hope windy city girl is right and this is sarcasim.  But if not-what bad thing did Obama do?

As far as the bias arguement.  I too used to complain and think that Chris Matthews was pro-Hillary.  Now I see it is not bias just coverage.  Someone made an excellent distinction the other day.  Hillary is giving the media things that are generating negative coverage.  I wouldn't say Chris is pro-Obama.  The past to nights he sat down in cozy settings and threw soft ball questions to Edwards and McCain.  These are the 2 candidates who can keep Obama from being able overtake Hillary.  As much as it worries me, I can recognize that every candidate deserves a chance to make their case.

I don't want Obama in the White House voting "Present" and too lame to vote a "Yea or Nay!!!!!!! He has NO experience dealing with the tough issues facing this country. Like it or not, Hillary Clinton is NOT responsible for her husband's failures!!!! This country has been hardened by George Bush's harsh, sarcastic and negative rhetoric for so long, we've forgotten how to forgive others and move on! george Bush has lied more than once to all America and we've allowed him to remain President!!! Hillary Clinton is strong, courageous and dedicated to what is best for this country...all the whining in the world won't change the fact that she was hit FIRST with neative remarks and now that she has spoken out and moved forward, people are whining. That Obama had to invoke celebrity fame to make his case is pretty immature and a commentary on his own insecurity. Obama will not survive and be elected. The American people aren't going to vote for someone who amy have charisma over Hillary who is tried and true, intelligent, deidcated and able to think on her own feet and stand toe-to-toe with the leaders of other countries and re-cultivate our respect in this world. And the Republicans...what a joke!

Dear Friends:
God Bless you all but we must know satire is not an afront or hate crime on faith.  You may not believe that is the nature of God knowing.  In the Bible he speaks of the athiest.  One who may have heard but does not see.   Your rights are protected in the USA and the world you are an A.   Our rights needed to be protected as Christians, Jewish, Arabs and all faiths.
Peace on Earth Good will toward men.  Do you hear what I hear.  A sun the light,  the Lord the light, God almighty night and day. The Creation.  The Messiah.  I believe.

Dear Friends:
God Bless you all but we must know satire is not an afront or hate crime on faith.  You may not believe that is the nature of God knowing.  In the Bible he speaks of the athiest.  One who may have heard but does not see.   Your rights are protected in the USA and the world you are an A.   Our rights needed to be protected as Christians, Jewish, Arabs and all faiths.
Peace on Earth Good will toward men.  Do you hear what I hear.  A sun the light,  the Lord the light, God almighty night and day. The Creation.  The Messiah.  I believe.

I don't want Obama in the White House voting "Present" and too lame to vote a "Yea or Nay!!!!!!!

Carol Neese, Columbia SC (Sent Friday, December 21, 2007 1:04 PM)

Uh, presidents don't vote. Nor do they write legislation because the Constitution prohibits it. So unless the Supreme Court overrules the line-item veto case, then fear not. There will be no legislation coming from the White House.

"Like it or not, Hillary Clinton is NOT responsible for her husband's failures!!!!"

Carol Neese, Columbia SC (Sent Friday, December 21, 2007 1:04 PM)

If she's not responsible for the failures, then Bill needs to stop telling us she is responsible for the successes.

"That Obama had to invoke celebrity fame to make his case is pretty immature and a commentary on his own insecurity."

Carol Neese, Columbia SC (Sent Friday, December 21, 2007 1:04 PM)

You mean celebrity fame like Bill Clinton's? So, are you saying that endorsements are signs of a candidates' insecurities and "immaturity"?

paul, i agree with you whole-heartedly. we can't trust any of the media to give us the straight facts. not t.v., radio, newspapers or magazines.

i will say as an independent, a good majority of us talk, correspond and are really analytical of the race on both sides. i know some folks are poll driven, but if they really want a possibility, here's one.

there will be a few independents that will support hillary because they want hillary to win as a woman. there is nohing with a woman or person of color winning the presidency. that isn't an issue with most independents.

most independents aren't going to support hillary. i am not saying that to be nasty. it is just a truth.

independents have the luxury of not being badgered by not having an established party affiliation. we get to look, listen, watch patterns and can be pretty much objective about what we see. we kind of think of ourselves as a party of sorts that has a big screen with a birds eye view.

we difinitely are the ones who will decide who will win the general election. i know hillary supporters will take this wrongly, but she is seen as very divisive figure amongst most independents.

we see her as a driving force towards partisanship in washington. if the gop base is willing to spend everything they have just to go after her, we think it would be even uglier in washington.

despite what a lot of good people would like to believe, she hasn't worked successfully with a lot of republicans(just a few) and some will not work with her at all. again, i am not saying it as a slam. it is the truth.

if dem's want to find out the truth about bipartisan cooperation with hillary then they need to check out the republican consensus towards her. they loathe hillary and bill.

some dem's want her in to fight with the gop. to indy's that just brings us back to more of the same. haven't we suffered from the dem's and repub's tryig to get one up on the other enough? people seem to act like we are playing a football game.

her dirty and below the belt campaign tactics don't settle well at all with us. we hear her supporters reiterate her speak points about they did it first. that isn't really true either.

she started with the naive and no experience theme.(example-obama said he would talk to iran directly without preconditions. she jumped on that to say he was naive). obama was getting crticism because he wouldn't fire back. he was considered to soft.

when he began to fire back(in october), it was said he was going negative. as hillary began to slip she made a statement,"he started it first," then put her corporate media attack dogs on it.

the truth is john edwards was the first to go on attack, but he never got personal, he never lied, he never put out misinformation on hillary. john stayed to the diferences in ideas, on issues and what he felt needed to be done. pointing out these things aren't negative to us. lies, misinformation and slander are negative to indy's.

obama didn't come at hillary until the debate in which she slipped a little. even then he was not that assertive. he didn't take the gloves off totally. pointing out differences in ideas, issues, policies or how you would try to implement them isn't wrong. those actions are apart of the campaign process.

hillary went negative. she started with misinformation. hillary called obama as naive. that is a direct reference to a person's character.
i know that hillary supporters say obama said she was old. that is not what he said. obama said, "we don't want to return the the politics of the 90's. the media added in the age issue. that is important to note because people get caught up in spin and become apart of the ugliness we see here and all over. people should search for the truth as much as possible.

she keeps moving to points of acceptability to the publics ears.

because it takes independents so long as a rule to make up their minds, we have the chance to watch the campaign process unfold.

we see who is constantly shifting or playing dirty politics. because we haven't decided to support immediately we don't get caught up in the emotional side of not losing to someone else's candidate.

hillary has really damaged herself amongst the independent's the last few weeks with the type of dirty, below the belt and slanderous campaign she has been running. that just reminds us of bush's gop the last race. we don't like that kind of politics at all.

we participate in blog's like this and get accused of all kinds of things because it may be some candidates we won't support or we point out what we see or feel we know.

at the end of each day we are running a tally. i would venture to say that after the iowa caucus the majority of independents will align with a certain candidate with a plan b if their candidate doesn't win.

that plan b will probaly be stay home or vote republican depending on who is the democratic nominee. i will say that the democrats have a few people that we feel make fine candidates, but the wrong choice as nominee will cause the democratic party the majority of the independent vote.

something that will be sorely needed if the dem's are to win the general election. just like dem's and repub's gravitate towards each other so do indy's. we just don't get that much attention. not even on c-span (smile).

we are important. any dem that thinks that there candidate has the independent vote sewn up because a poll may suggest it is fooling themself.

there is one candidate in your party that the majority of indy's will walk away from to the gop or a small percentage will stay at home and the rest would go to the gop.

you dem's need to really consider that.

i expect to get some hateful post's for saying this but it is true. the dem's need us to win the general eection. it would be a shame to force most us to side with the gop. that isn't our first choice.

don't be emotional about this post. it is a fact. some will the majority won't. think about it if you really want the white house, please.  


it would be great to see the first woman president as a part of history. a lot of independent women don't think hillary is the right woman.  

i was a bill clinton supporter. i voted for him when i was younger. i watched him take the integrity of the white house to a very low level. i watched him sell his soul to corporate america. it was hurtful as a democrat to see. it is well documented. i remember his campaign. the same one he is saying experience count. then he was saying the same thing obama is saying. bill has flip-flopped over the years. he twists the truth. i don't like that. during those years i was willing to over look all of his dire and voted for him a second time. his second term was the end of supporting him for me.  

Remember, Obama got the endorsement of the very influential Boston Globe. I'm not sure when this latest NH poll was conducted, but that endorsement could have played a role in him drawing even with Clinton. His support has been growing steadily in both Iowa and NH, while Clinton's has been dropping. This is great news for the Obama campaign. Clinton's nastiness with the Billy Shaheen story last week probably also had something to do with her declining poll numbers. People want fair play - and that was so below the belt that many voters here in NH were disgusted. Obama is on his way up, and Clinton is on her way down. 2008 is looking good, Obama fans!!

wow - shocker!  the NBC family of news networks and websites over-reports the pro-Obama poll.  Nevermind the other polls this week that show Clinton with a substantial national lead, a significant lead in NH and even a slight lead in IA.

I tried to post something about an hour ago which has not appeared, so I'll try again!

Wanted to point out that this latest NH poll showing Obama tied with Hillary is in sync with what has been happening the last seven weeks. Ever since Hillary's stumble at the Oct. 30th debate, her campaign has been spiraling downward. Mark Penn & Co. have been in something of a panic mode. Kindergarten-gate, the use of surrogates like Shaheen and Kerrey to do her dirty work, Bill's wild claims, Hillary's nervous cackle, AFSME's misleading fliers, etc. etc. are all overt examples of a campaign coming unglued. Their desperation is showing. And the people in Iowa and NH can see it. That is why her numbers are dropping, and Obama's are rising. Obama is going to win both Iowa and NH - and the nomination!

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