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First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC Political Researcher



Ron Paul on Meet the Press

Posted: Sunday, December 23, 2007 2:54 PM by Mark Murray
Filed Under: ,

From NBC's Lauren Appelbaum
On Meet the Press this morning, Paul called the American Civil War a mistake, criticized Ronald Reagan as a "failure," and refused to rule out a third party run.
 
Paul repeated his claim that Abraham Lincoln should not have started the Civil War to get rid of slavery. "Six-hundred-thousand Americans died in the senseless Civil War," he said. "No, he should not have gone to war. He did this just to enhance and get rid of the original tenet of the Republic," he told NBC's Tim Russert.
 
"Slavery was phased out in every other country in the world," Paul continued, responding to the question if America would still have slavery had there not been the Civil War. "The way I'm proposing that it should have been done is do it like the British Empire did -- you buy the slaves and release them. How much would that cost compared to killing 600,000 Americans?... I mean, that doesn't sound too radical to me. That sounds like a pretty reasonable approach."

Paul also criticized Reagan for not reducing the government to a "constitutional size." But Paul also is using Reagan's picture in his brochure. "He ran on a good program," Paul explained. "His idea was limited government ... and a strong national defense."
 
In 1987, Paul resigned from the Republican party. Now he's running as a Republican. "I represent what Republicanism used to be. I represent the group that wanted to get rid of the Department of Education, the part of the Republican Party that used to be non-interventionist overseas. That was the tradition, the Robert Taft wing of the party. There was a time when Republicans defended individual liberty and the constitution and decreased spending."
 
While Paul never voted for a bill with earmarks, he has included earmarks for his district in bills. "I put them in because I represent people who are asking for some of their money back," he explained. "But it doesn't cut any spending to vote against an earmark. And the Congress has the responsibility to spend the money. Why leave the money in the Executive Branch and let them spend the money?"
 
"It's like taking a tax credit," he continued, on why he doesn't refuse the money. "I'm against the tax system, but I take all my tax credits. I want to get their money back for the people."
 
Russert also asked Paul to explain his positions on abolishing agencies such as the FBI, CIA, and IRS. After listening to Paul list the reasons for abolishing the IRS, Russert asked the Republican presidential hopeful how much money would be lost without the IRS.
 
Paul replied that it would be "a lot" of lost revenue. Russert told him it would be "over a trillion dollars." Paul did not seem phased and said "the goal is to cut the spending."
 
"If you brought our troops home, you save hundreds of billions of dollars," Paul said, explaining how he would make up the lost revenue. "You can start saving immediately by changing the foreign policy and not be the policeman of the world."

Finally, Paul refused to rule out a third party run, saying he has "no intention of doing that." He previously ran for president in 1988 as the Libertarian Party's candidate, but is now running for the Republican nomination. "I can be pretty darn sure that I have no intention, no plans in doing that. And that's about 99.9% of a chance," he said. "I don't like people who are such absolutists -- 'I will not ever do this' or 'I will win' or 'I'm going to come in first.' I don't like those absolutists terms in politics."

Click here to go to the 'Meet the Press' Web site to watch video of Paul's appearance or to read the transcript.

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Comments

During the interview, Ron Paul quoted Randolph Bourne's astute "War is the Health of the State". Unfortunately, the MSNBC transcript misquoted him and replaced "Health" with "helpless".
Honestly, this appearance sold Paul to me.

I was really, really, really unsure and I know that most of what he says requires you to know his reasoning, but it was a Paul vs. Romney thing for me and Romney just comes off as too dirty.

Paul is definitely, DEFINITELY, a satisfying candidate. It's about time we had someone honest in office. :)
C'est Magnifique...
I thought Russert was dismissive and refused to followup with any reasonable questions. I thought Dr. Paul was good as usual.
I think Russert was tough, but fair.  I think the good doctor came across just fine and gave as good as he got.  I don't know how they'll try to spin this but I think Paul came out on top like he always does.
I just got done watching the program.  It's funny how my view of the show is so much different that that of this article's author.  Mark Murray should go back and watch the show again.  Funny.  
Ron Paul received contributions from over 100,000 different people this quarter. He received $18,000,000 from those 100,000 people. His support is wide and deep. Look around your town and notice you see RP signs everywhere. Grab a cup of coffee and go to http://freeme.tv
I don't know why Russert seemed so blown away with the stuff that Paul was saying.  Everything is so common sense if we just look at the situations logically.  But, like most media, Russert tried to make broad assumptions from quotes and turn non-issues with Paul into issues.  Paul seems like one of the only politicians in the world who hasn't gone completely mad.
Russert did the best he could to drag out the worst of Paul, but he failed. Too bad he didn't get to talk about the War, Deficit spending, Trade Defecits, monetizing debt, loss of civil liberties, destroyed CIA tapes, NIE reports on Iran, the collapsing dollar, and every other issue that stealthily affects the average American. Instead, Russert gave me quotes from Dondero. Weak. Pointless. Typical.
Ron Paul is the man of the people. He speaks to the working class! Look at the love for him outside your studio after your broadcast tried to smear him!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6913334790994689408&q=Ron+Paul&total=21959&start=0&num=10&so=1&type=search&plindex=5
Spot on Ron.  The more I hear him, the more I like him.  A very intelligent human being.
Ron Paul is the man of the people. You at the controlled media won't post this. It shows the love!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6913334790994689408&q=Ron+Paul&total=21959&start=0&num=10&so=1&type=search&plindex=5
If you did any research, the emancipation of slavery occurred during the Civil War, not before it.  The civil war was based on the South doing free trade with other countries because the north was using tariffs to destroy the southern economy.  As for Ron Paul's assessment, I agree, we should have purchased them and freed them and subsequently banned slavery from ever occurring again.  This is what every single other nation did and if we had done it that way, we wouldn't have the prejudice we have even today.  It certainly would have cost less than the war, which was the deadliest in our entire history, losing nearly a million men alone.  

As for the Ronald Reagan failure, he was simply quoting Ronald Reagan himself in the failure of Lebanon and that Reagan was supposed to reduce government, but eventually conceded to slowing its growth instead.

As for the earmarks assessment, I don’t understand what Mr. Russert was referring to.  If you take money away from people due to a corrupt system, it is logical to try and give as much of it back, especially if it would otherwise be diverted to not only other programs not represented by Ron Paul’s Constituents, but programs that are inept in their understanding of the US Constitution.

Please look at the sponsors today of Meet The Press.
half were for military defense companies, the rest comprised entirely of pharmaceutical and banking companies.  Just shows where the interests of Meet the Press is.

Overall this article on MTP has been more fair than most articles that I read on Mainstream Media, but you really have to stop asking the 3rd party question, I don't even have the energy to explain it anymore, as it has been asked on every network countless times and Ron Paul provides the same dignified answer.  This is an obvious ploy that the special interests use through their control of media outlets such as yourself that will FAIL.

Makes sense. He has the best ideas I have seen yet, I will probably vote for Paul.
Thank you for the fair commentary, Mark. I think Dr. Paul did well in holding his own against Tim Russert. I particularly enjoyed the part when he asked Russert why he didn't ask any other candidates if they were going to run as a third party, considering that Ron Paul has outraised all other Republican candidates this quarter.
Pretty good overview, pretty fair overview - thanks!

People might read the first lines and say, "WHAT?!" But he gives reasonable explanations on all of them. Pretty decent performance, no harm really, but nothing too great.

He did get about 300 new donors this morning alone, no doubt because of the appearance. It'll be interesting to see how he does as the weeks pass by.
Ron Paul was reelected to Congress six times as a Republican after 1988, by increasingly large margins, once with no opposition at all.  He IS a Republican -- it's not like he suddenly decided to join the party to run for President.
Amazing interview; Tim is a sharp questioner and pins down his guests with news research. Ron did a great job explaining his positions and challenged some of Tim's data. Ron's message rips through status quo thinking and expands the view of history and contemporary thought. Much of it is just common sense. Ron’s entire message follows the Constitution - which is the law of the land.
A true American hero
I watched the interview.. there some points you missed on here..

He clearly said that he does not want to abolish the CIA & FBI, he wants to end buercracy and consolidate.. Remeber the Iraq intelligence reports?

His plan actually makes intelligence more effective.

As for the comments about the civil war, he said it was faught for political reasons rather then abolishing slavery. He stated that he was disgusted that the US would even condone such a thing as slavery for that period of time.. esp because Americans are supposed to be sticking up for equality

Abolishing the IRS? not quite.. he will only repeal the income tax which is used to pay interest to the FED.. he's not eliminating said taxes

Paul wants to end Federal government interference in public education, NOT public education.. The states have departments of education,. If there was no fed government interference, then state departments would have more flexibility/funds to address the problems of their state in specific areas.

Has anyone evaluated his reasoning for taking this position?

"If the steady decline of America's education system over the past thirty years has shown us anything, it is that centralizing control leads to a declining education system. In fact, according to a recent Manhattan Institute study of the effects of state policies promoting parental control over education, a minimal increase in parental control boosts students' average SAT verbal score by 21 points and students' SAT math score by 22 points! The Manhattan Institute study also found that increasing parental control of education is the best way to improve student performance on the National Assessment of Education Progress (NAEP) tests. Clearly, the drafters of the Constitution knew what they were doing when they forbade the Federal Government from meddling in education."

-source Ron Paul library

So what is the best solution for our failing public education system? Leaving it to Washington bureaucrats or teachers, parents, state/local governments?


And looks like Paul has a solution to funding as well.. this way every family will be able to get their children educated in a system that actually works.

"In order to put education resources back into the hands of the American people I have introduced the Family Education Freedom Act (H.R. 935). This act provides a $3,000 per child tax credit for parents to help cover K-12 education expenses. I have also introduced the Education Improvement Tax Cut Act (H.R. 936), which provides a $3,000 tax deduction for contributions to K-12 education scholarships as well as for cash or in-kind donations to private or public schools. HRs 935 and 936 move control of education resources back into the hands of the American people and help ensure parents can provide their children an excellent education. In fact, since the tax credits contained in H.R. 935 and H.R. 936 may be used to help finance the purchase of items necessary for a science education, such as labs equipment and computers, these bills will particularly benefit those citizens who wish to improve science education. I therefore urge my colleagues to reject the failed, unconstitutional command-and-control approach of H.R. 4271 and instead embrace my legislation to return control of education resources to the American people."

-source Ron Paul library





He seems to be the only candidate serious about ending the war and restraining fed government spending.. I'm a democrat but I really like him.. I may vote for him in the primaries
I was shocked when I first heard Ron Paul's position that the American Civil War should not have been fought.  After listening to it, he's right.  The US could have bought and freed all the slaves for a lot less cost.  That Lincoln was the greatest violator of the Constitution, ever.  And that the public school system responsible for my "education" failed far short in helping my development as a free-thinker with respect to history and politics and social studies and government.

Tim Russert did his job.  Dr. Paul answers questions rather than repeats slogans. Flowery, polished answers are not what the American public wants. He is not a slick politician.  His record speak volumes.  
This was a very thin hit piece that should be accepted as just that.  Ron Paul represents a real change in politics that threatens a lot of special interests.  I encourage all readers to research the facts themselves and not depend on this kind of bias to make their informed decisions.  

"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."  - George Orwell
Obviously slanted title, but not too bad, for a change.  At least you included Dr. Paul's explanations in some detail.  Of course, the necessary "3rd party" question for the leading Republican fundraiser, the leading Republican winner of straw polls, the leading grassroots republican, and soon to be top 3 finisher in real events.  Why isnt' the divisive Giulian who the Christians will never vote for asked this?  Why is Giulian asked anything at all because that reprobate globalist tool has no business being in the Republican party and no candidate with no support in Iowa or New Hampshire could even hope to mount a campaign unless preordained that he be feted by the media.  Absurd.
Tim Russert was anything but fair, and took every oportunity (even diggin up the one person who had somthing negative to say) to make Dr. Paul look bad, but "hats off" to Dr. Paul, he stood tall and told the truth.
I won't be watching "Meet the Press" anymore, I like UNbiased news soarces.
Russert did everything he could to take down Paul and it backfired on him. The people will only like Paul more as they see that his positions are all about freedom and peace. Russert exposed himself as a tool of the establishment. Great job Ron.
I really like this guy! he's a straight shooter...
"Paul called the American Civil War a mistake"

Correction... Paul called the American Civil War a mistake -as a means to free the slaves-. If you study history, you know that the Civil War was not fought to abolish slavery. Lincoln made it about slavery after the war had already been going on for nearly two years.
MSNBC - You have shown the world how deep you are in bed with the military industrial complex. When i saw Meet the Press with Hillary it was with all smiles, when i saw with Guiliani it was all laughs and games - this was digging deep, trying to twist words, smearing a man who runs on the most honest platform. I have no respect for you.
Russert did all that he could to take down Ron Paul and it backfired on him. These kind of attack interviews only make people like Ron Paul even more. His answers are logical and honest. He is about freedom and peace. Russert exposed himself as a tool of the establishment. Great job Ron.
Old Timmy sounds like he's stuck in 1988,just like all of the dying Old Media........

Ron Paul is the Truth!!!!!!
Nice Hit piece Murry
 
Murry says Ron Paul “refused to rule out a third party run”
Paul says “I have no intention, no plans in doing that. And that's about 99.9% of a chance”  
Murry did not ask what if a gun was put to your families head, would you run then?  That might be the .1%.  Ron Paul is a family man.

Murry says Ron Paul “American Civil War a mistake”
Paul says “The way I'm proposing that it should have been done is do it like the British Empire did -- you buy the slaves and release them. How much would that cost compared to killing 600,000 Americans?”
Again, Pauls statement is that we could have freed slaves without American deaths.  And the problem with that is what?

Murry says Ron Paul “criticized Ronald Reagan as a "failure"
Paul says “His idea was limited government ... and a strong national defense."
Paul points out that Ronald Reagan tried to limit government and failed.  Not a broad sweeping remark towards the life of Ronal Reagan being a failure.

Murry put down the axe and deal with real issues already instead of twisting the truth.  I am embarrassed for you.
Dr. Paul was grilled on opinions he had over 20 YEARS ago and asked why these opinions changed. Well, the WORLD has changed, the COUNTRY has changed and what happened over the past 2 decades calls for opinions to change with the times. Questions about the civil war were ludicrious, and why ask a candidate who has raised over $10 MILLION in two days, with thousands of supporters, who has been a Republican elected Congressman if he'd consider running as a THIRD party candidate is saying that the Repulican party wouldn't know a successful candidacy if he bit them. 99.9% chance he will NOT do this does NOT mean there is a 1% chance he will, unless you're making snowballs in a very HOT place!

Those who support Dr. Paul know this, those that don't will nit-pick at anything to discredit him, but they will not succeed.
While Ronald Reagan was a great President, bringing attention to the ideas of individual liberty and small Government, he did fail in his original quest to stop the growth of the federal government, abolish the Department of Education, and cut Federal spending.

I don't blame Ron Paul one bit  for becoming disenchanted on these failures and embittered against the GOP. He is not alone, many conservatives have quietly left the GOP until it has become a mere skeleton membership of its former self. Ron Paul's Presidential bid is sure to have increased GOP membership at an astounding rate and brought back to the GOP disenfranchised conservatives and liberty minded voters. They are now invigorated by Ron Paul's message to save their country from the power hungry Neocons that hijacked their party and their country.  
Ron Paul was a breath of fresh air, honest, sincere, with well thought out answers to some tough questions.  As he said, when the govt. "declares" a war what it really means is they are taking more power and we loose more freedom.  Bring the troops home, close foriegn bases, stop foriegn aid and end the war on drugs.  
Too bad I missed this interview. From everything I read here Ron Paul seems someone I would vote for. Thank you for putting Ron Paul on Meet the Press. I think I found someone to vote for....Ron Paul
Nice Hit piece Appelbaum
 
Appelbaum says Ron Paul “refused to rule out a third party run”
Paul says “I have no intention, no plans in doing that. And that's about 99.9% of a chance”  
Murry did not ask what if a gun was put to your families head, would you run then?  That might be the .1%.  Ron Paul is a family man.

Appelbaum says Ron Paul believes the “American Civil War a mistake”
Paul says “The way I'm proposing that it should have been done is do it like the British Empire did -- you buy the slaves and release them. How much would that cost compared to killing 600,000 Americans?”
Again, Pauls statement is that we could have freed slaves without American deaths.  And the problem with that is what?

Appelbaum says Ron Paul “criticized Ronald Reagan as a "failure"
Paul says “His idea was limited government ... and a strong national defense."
Paul points out that Ronald Reagan tried to limit government and failed.  Not a broad sweeping remark towards the life of Ronal Reagan being a failure.

Appelbaum put down the axe and deal with real issues already instead of twisting the truth.  I am embarrassed for you.
Ridiculous, slanted, biased, childish interpretation of this interview.  You pulled out everything you could possibly frame as negative and distorted it.  You really ought to be ashamed.  

I don't know if I'll vote for Ron Paul, but I'm donating to his campaign today purely because this type of journalism disgusts me and people should be called on it.  
What a pathetic review.

Russert asked Paul why he thought the Civil War was a mistake and he explained. He was dead on right, too. Even bringing this up was a waste of time.

Paul explained to Russert that he wanted to get rid of the BAD things the CIA and FBI do, not their intelligence gathering capibilty.

"Lost revenue" from eliminating the IRS of one trillion dollars. Hmmm let's see, so that is ONE TRILLION DOLLARS the federal government is stealing from the American economy each and every year. Putting ONE TRILLION DOLLARS back into the economy every year is a bad thing how?!
Great interview. Tim Russert hit Ron Paul with his best shots, just like he does with all his quests, and Ron Paul hit them all out of the park.
Americans have now heard the message of freedom and combine that with the fact that most Americans know just how corrupt the existing system is and you have a revolution in the making.
The next revolution will be held at the ballot box.
www.ronpaul2008.com
I'm not sure you actually watched the same show I did.

The writer of this article is either a corporate wage slave doing his masters bidding or democrat who plans on voting for someone else.

The old MSM continues to show why it is irrelevant.
I'm afraid Ron Paul came off as the very average guy that he really is - mixed metaphors and all.  A man who has been around Texas republican politics for umpteen years (libertarian candidate for president in 1988) and now miraculously emerges as the answer to all of America's problems??  Nah!  I don't think so.  He may throw out a feasible idea here and there, but he's not the go-to guy (or gal) that we need now.  

Predicting democratic performance as POTUS is like predicting the weather - can't be done due to chaos, complexity, the butterfly effect, et al.

On the other hand, predicting republican performance is more like predicting whether you'll get wet standing in the rain.  With these tricksters there is no room for doubt, if you get my point.

Forget 3rd party protest votes as a total waste of time - vote democratic and vote often!!  
America needs to go back to what made her great in the first place. We need to concentrate on domestic issues.
I wonder if it was refreshing for Mr. Russert to actually have a candidate who honestly answered the question without doublespeak.

This will be the first time I vote in primaries (I have voted in the actual presidential elections).  This is the first time I donated money.  This is the first time in a long time there has been a statesman of integrity who truly will work for the people.

Even tho I have some policy disagreements, I have no qualms with supporting him.  An honest man in checks and balances can do a lot to shift the direction our government/country is heading without massive upheaval.

His support is growing exponentially and will continue to do so. Go Ron Paul!  We are working for you because you are working for us!
This was a smear and anyone with an open mind could see it. Russert had his marching orders and did his duty to discredit the only true patriot in the race. The last thing Russert said to Dr. Paul was, "be careful." I believe that was a threat from the his bosses, not kind concern from a US citizen.
Tim Russet REALLY had to struggle to find some quasi-dirt to confront Dr. Paul with. I mean, 20-year-old quotes from a disgruntled campaign worker used to assert his positions? I thought the Dr. Paul handled the attempted Mudslinging with aplomb and character, as when he was refuting the ridiculous points that Mr. Russert attempted to make, Tim would quickly try to move on to the next bucket of mud.

One real cheap shot was the attempt to use misquotes, out-of-context quotes and lblatant lies to disassociate Ron Paul from Ronald Reagan. This was a blatant attempt to hurt the Dr.'s image, as he is probably the CLOSEST of all the Republican candidates to Reagan's philosophies andpositions. But by trying to make it look like Dr. paul was disingenuous of his support of Ronald Reagan was a stretch and I'm sure strained even a casual viewer's credulity with the line of questioning.

One of the best lines Dr. Paul got off was when he was asked (for the 1001st time) about a 'third party run'. YOu could audibly hear Dr. Paul sigh, then answer the question at least three times! He then asked Tim if he has asked that of ANY other candidate he has interviewed! Tim lamely muttered something like 'I'll ask it on next week's show' or something to that effect.

Overall, I think Dr. Paul handled the "gotcha' format of the show quite well. He was able to make his points after steering away from the obvious and ridiculous boxes that Mr. Russert was trying to back him into. One notable omission from the show- there was NO question or even mention of Monetary Policy, except for a mention by Dr. Paul of the deliberately weakened dollar, when Mr. Russert cut him off and hurriedly went on to talk about another topic.

THe question about 'Calling Mike Huckabee a fascist' was WAY out of bounds and misleading, but I thought Dr. Paul handled it expertly, He turned it around into a discussion of the definition of fascism, and how corporate or, as the Dr. put it 'Soft' fascism has taken over this country. I'm sure the folks at GE (who sponsor the show and OWN the network) were none too pleased at this subject being broached on NATIONAL TELEVISION! Ironically, the advertisement for Boeing that followed the interview segment took on (at least for me) an almost Leni Riefenstahl quality, as it softly pushed the Military-Industrialist Corproate Fascist line as creepily 'warm and fuzzy' and 'good for America'. Goebbels-esque, if you ask me!

Overall, good exposure for Dr. Paul. He stayed forcefully on message about ending the war, shrinking government, abolishing the income tax and the IRS and going back to what REAL Republicans believe in. This should go a long way to giving him credibility with the millions of disaffected Republicans who weren't sure or hadn't heard much about Dr. Paul.

The last impression I was left with was how openly HOSTILE Tim Russert seemed to be with Dr. Paul. I've seen interviews for years by Mr. Russert, and he is a tough interviewer. But in other interviews with candidates, I have NEVER seen him to be so totally hell-bent on finding something, ANYTHING to trip up a Presidential Candidate he was interviewing. It seemed that he was almost resentful that he was FORCED to do this interview by public demand for it, and at least the APPEARANCE of fairness in interviewing all the candidates.

Another tough win for Dr. No, with many Americans for the first time being exposed to the man without the filter of the punditocracy between them and the man's own words.

xtrabiggg
++++++++++++++++++
He's got the most guts I have ever seen in a candidate.  He is willing to speak the truth, even when it is not pallatable.  He is so right when he says that we could have avoided the Civil War by purchasing all slaves in the U.S.  We would have been much better and we would have saved 600,000 souls and brought freedom and justice to souls who were forced into slavery.
He's got the most guts I have ever seen in a candidate.  He is willing to speak the truth, even when it is not pallatable.  He is so right when he says that we could have avoided the Civil War by purchasing all slaves in the U.S.  We would have been much better and we would have saved 600,000 souls and brought freedom and justice to souls who were forced into slavery.
Ron Paul...he maybe right on many things or he might be wrong but he tells it straight. When Paul speaks it is with a conviction so pure it simply baffles the "new punditry" cold!

Here at First Read they attempt to present a case for Paul's "kookiness" while the McLaughlin group names him Person of the Year for defending the Constitution.

Great interview on Paul's part.  Tim was just looking to smear Paul.  He misquoted him, used statements from 20 years ago, didn't even know about amending the US Constitution, and lastly, didn't even really ask any reasonable questions Hack job if you ask me!  However, Ron shut Tim down!


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