It's never wise to build a campaign on claims of experience that can be so easily debunked.  

The summary headline on politics.msnbc.com for that article says it all: "As first lady, Hillary Clinton appears to have learned more through osmosis and goodwill trips than decision-making".

Tremble at the wealth of her experience.  I say tremble.

So can we hope that the next article will focus on Barack Hussein Obama's claims that his spending time as a child in Indonesia count's for foreign policy experience??  I'd like to see how playing dodgeball in a vacant lot in Maylasia compares to meeting the heads of 79 nations over 8 years.

Just an observation, if HRC took part in decision making in the Clinton WH she's the demanding, controlling, witch on heels that the right wing media have always portrayed her to be.  If she didn't then she's weak on experience and unqualified to run.

It's about time people actually look into(or try to look into) the experience she got from being First Lady(or lack of experience).  I never thought I'd say this, being a supporter of privacy, but I REALLY wonder what she has in those classified archives.

From the NY Times:

'...The Long Run
Clinton’s Résumé Factor: Those 8 Years as First Lady
By PATRICK HEALY
Published: December 26, 2007
The Long Run
The White House Years

Hillary Rodham Clinton flew to Uzbekistan in 1997 and was met by President Islam A. Karimov.

But during those two terms in the White House, Mrs. Clinton did not hold a security clearance. She did not attend National Security Council meetings. She was not given a copy of the president’s daily intelligence briefing. She did not assert herself on the crises in Somalia, Haiti and Rwanda.....'


So what knowledge did she have about foreign policy ? What input did she have on Foreign policy ?
More lies from Hillary....


'...And during one of President Bill Clinton’s major tests on terrorism, whether to bomb Afghanistan and Sudan in 1998, Mrs. Clinton was barely speaking to her husband, let alone advising him, as the Lewinsky scandal sizzled....'

Does anyone remember Hillary during the Lewinsky scandal ?
She said it was just a 'vast right wing conspiracy'
She said Bill NEVER HAD SEX with that woman !!

Not very credible...
She doesn't sound like a 'strong woman'.....
She sounds like a woman with low self-esteem.
She's afraid that no other man would want her....

'...In seeking the Democratic presidential nomination, Mrs. Clinton lays claim to two traits nearly every day: strength and experience. But as the junior senator from New York, she has few significant legislative accomplishments to her name. She has cast herself, instead, as a first lady like no other: a full partner to her husband in his administration, and, she says, all the stronger and more experienced for her “eight years with a front-row seat on history.”

Her rivals scoff at the idea that her background gives her any special qualifications for the presidency. Senator Barack Obama has especially questioned “what experiences she’s claiming” as first lady, noting that the job is not the same as being a cabinet member, much less president....'

Hillary can you go cut some ribbons.....
I'll be conferring with my intern, Monica

How can Hillary play experience, her most notables were working for a communist law firm defending the Black Panthers, writing her thesis on a Communist she idolized, trying to get a socialist health care in under Bill, trashing the whitehouse and taking the furniture.  Taking drug money from Bill s pardons and criminal money for her Senate Race.  She should be running in Russia, China, Cuba, or North Korea, she s a disguised communist, look at her Bio

35 years of experience is  a hoax. most people are not paying too much attention, save outside of the early states. bodes well for surging obama and huckabee

"Can any other Republican slingshot as well out of Iowa right now than McCain, thanks to expectations and the length of time it appears that Huckabee's been in the lead?"

Ummm... Ron Paul?  And don't underestimate the importance of weather... bad weather benefits who?

Given that the nomination process may be over in a month, and most of us will never cast a meaningful vote, it was actually an interesting campaign. A couple of months ago it seemed like the media had anointed Clinton and Giuliani. Maybe they would add Bloomberg to really make it all New York. Maybe that happens, but you could sense a month of extreme discomfort for some columnists and pundits, especially when Huckabee surged. The Wall Street Journal can always drag down anyone who rises from the bottom. That route always entails compromise. The question might be, if Huck fails, what that part of the GOP does 'next time'. Huck has proved something.

It seems the immigration issue has been 'settled'. The next prez may have to offer something Draconian. But some states, like Arizona, have already taken drastic steps.

As for foreign policy, it's interesting that Iraq is not much of an issue. It may well haunt the next president. Roger Hearing, BBC, was saying that many people in Iraq fear there will be a 'next phase' in the sectarian conflict, after the US is clearly on the way out.

It's hard to see how anyone changes the health care system. The candidates are quibbling about details. The real crunch would be as Medicare funding fails, or if global recession really hits.

It's curious to watch Ron Paul on Meet the Press. No guy has a more limited vision of America. He's basically rejecting that vast, strong, hegemonic government for something entirely different. But if Iraq were to implode, while the mortgage crisis worsened? With more severe economic hardship, and foreign policy failure, it might be a message that gets co-opted by one of the parties.

Paul seems to be the only candidate to implement an actual policy, based on the notion this is a critical time for America. The rest of the candidates say that, but it's clear they barely do more than nudge the fairly obvious potential changes out there.

Hillary Clinton met more world leaders in one year as a first lady than Edwards and Obama - combined - have met in their entire lives.  There is real experience there.

Clinton on occasion also attended cabinet meetings, and according to  Bob Woodward's book, 'The Agenda'  was involved on the formulation of economic policy early in the Clinton Presidency.  A policy that laid the foundation for the excellent economic condiditions that followed.

What is Obama's experience?  What do we really even know about the guy?  Who are his friends?  What is he hiding?

Mike - Living in a third world country unsecluded for years and visiting a third world country for brief meetings are two very different things.  If you think for a second that the latter is more relevant to understanding other cultures than the former, you are harboring the same sort of ignorance that allowed America to go into Iraq as "revenge" for 9/11. Living amongst people, seeing them as human beings, understanding their culture and their values, and subsequently determining how those countries will react to our policies is far more valuable experience to a President than a thousand goodwill missions to meet with dignitaries; someone who has only met dignitaries, after all, might think that average people in Islamic countries would respond well to a regime change and largescale military occupation, whereas someone who has lived extensively in a Muslim country amongst those average people would know right off the bat how retarded that is.  

How come there is no mention of the new poll by the American Research Group that shows Hillary leading Obama in Iowa by 15 points – 19% to 34%?  Surely this counts as news and reflects momentum for Hillary.

Guess it just doesn’t fit the MSNBC/Chris Matthews storyline/fantasy that Hillary’s campaign is imploding.  

tHE TOP THREE IN THE DEMOCRATS IS A JOKE, CLINTON THE COMMUNIST, OBAMBA THE BABY, AND EDWARDS THE MOST FAR OUT LEFT WINGER BACKED BY SEAN PENN, HARRY BELLAFONTE UGGHHHHHHHH.

S.K.M. - Like you I am a big believer in privacy.  However, when a candidate claims experience they should have to show it, not lock away all the documents but claim they back her.  If I can't prove it then I can't put it on my resume, same goes for politicians - they can't claim what they can't prove to have done.  It is about time (though kind of late in the game if you ask me) that a newspaper has finally gotten around to looking into the claims made by the junior Senator from New York.  Of course don't expect Senator Clinton to acknowledge the substance of the story, it will be yet another "vast right wing conspiracy" that is out to get her.  She will go on claiming all sorts of experience (this is called a lie to those that don't understand how these things go).  

Great article...Hillary needs to stop trying to rewrite history as a co-presidency.

Shadow, Hamden, CT...John B, Des Moines, IA...S.K.M. Mass...Sierra, SF
I am a lifelong Democrat who would-have voted for our party's canidate (no matter who it was), before I started reading your vicious, vitriolic, hate filled posts about Mrs. Clinton, and The Clinton Family. (Over the Christmas Holiday too!)
But, now I have to say that I wouldn't vote for Obama to be dog catcher of my town, if you are the kind of people he represents.
In fact, I have never done so before; but, I will vote Republican if Obama is the nominee. There are a lot of other people who feel the same way too.
Obama and you are alienating us.
This is the kind of thing Bush pulled before he was elected.
It isn't, and shouldn't be indicative of how a Democrat conducts himself.
So, there it is. You've turned a lifelong Democrat into someone who'll vote Republican if Obama gets the nomination.
You are mean spirited, pugnacious, and politically-blood-thirsty people with whom I don't want my party's ideology affiliated.
If Obama is the Democratic nominee, I will vote aginst him and I will encourage other Democrats to do the same...and you have nobody, but yourselves to thank for that.
Merry Christmas

Hillary Clinton is walking a very fine line indeed.  

She touts her experience by association with her husband.  If so, would that mean Monica Lewinsky also has experience to run this country? Would Jennifer Flowers have experience to be governor of Arkansas?

But if she really did earn hands-on experience during Bill's presidency, wouldn't the two-term limit apply to her too?

OK, it is becoming more and more obvious that all of this talk by Hillary about her vast experience gained from being First Lady is just that - talk. The NY Times points out that she had no security clearance, did not attend National Security Council meetings, and was not shown daily intelligence briefings. She did not assert herself on Somalia, Haiti, or Rwanda. Oh, and the one domestic task she WAS given sole proprietorship over - reforming health care - was a complete flop. She proved she could not bring opposing health care interests together, nor could she bring congressional Democrats and Republicans together. So, what IS this vast experience she gained from being First Lady? Methinks the empress has no clothes.

Just an observation from someone who will probably vote for Barack Obama in the MA primaries:

Hillary Clinton is an extremely intelligent, popular Senator in New York. There is no reason why she can't run on her own merits. She needn't run as an ex-first lady or wife of a former President. She's a good Senator and should win or lose on her own. I believe her husband and campaign managers are doing her a great disservice. They are not helping her, they are hurting her.

I have always liked Bill Clinton, but I believe Hillary Clinton can do this on her own. I would admire her more if she did.

Senator Clinton: You are being scrutized much more than any other candidate. Forget about your "experience" as first lady. Run on your experience as a New York Senator. You are a very popular senator there. Talk about that. If possible, rise above the Karl Rove-like campaign. It's hurting you.

I have been watching and listening to you for many years and to me, you are one remarkable woman. Now is the time to show it.

I'm glad a journalist finally had the strength to come out and expose Hillary Clinton's "experience" claims.  What a joke!

Expect Clinton to respond by saying that all evidence of her experience is well-qualified, locked up in the Clinton, but is being released as soon as possible, just AFTER she gets elected!

Im not willing to take that kind of risk.  I want to go with someone who has already proven to have GOOD JUDGMENT.  Barack Obama is my candidate.

'...“Mrs. Clinton did not hold a security clearance. She did not attend National Security Council meetings. She was not given a copy of the president’s daily intelligence briefing. She did not assert herself on the crises in Somalia, Haiti and Rwanda."...'

WHAT EXPERIENCE ?
Nice try, Hillary
But, the truth is your mortal enemy.....

Maybe you should open up those White House archives and show us what you did as First Lady
What do you have to hide, Hillary ?
15 years of dishonesty, scandals and divisiveness...

Chuck Todd - Why are you pushing John Edwards chances so much? Is it because your wife is working for John McCain, and now that you see Hillary is slipping and Obama is surging in Iowa, you and she are hoping Edwards wins in Iowa, so that the Independents in NH will go for McCain, and not Obama? You are supposed to be neutral and fair. Your bias against Obama is really showing. I'm very disappointed, as when you announced last spring that your wife worked for McCain, I thought it would be tough for you to remain unbiased and up until the last few weeks you had been. But it is so evident that you don't want Obama to win. Very unprofessional.    

Mitt Romney,

Or should I say Flip Flopper Romney!
 
Mitt Romney's  Flip Flop Record

ABORTION

From the Left:

Romney ran against Senator Edward M. Kennedy in 1994. During a debate, Romney declared: "I believe that abortion should be safe and legal in this country. I have since the time that my mom took that position when she ran in 1970 as a US Senate candidate. I believe that since Roe v. Wade has been the law for 20 years we should sustain and support it."
- Boston Globe, March 2, 2006

"I respect and will protect a woman's right to choose."
-2002 Questionnaire for the National Abortion Rights Action League (NARAL)
Boston Globe, July 3, 2005

From the Right:

"I am pro-life. I believe that abortion is the wrong choice except in cases of incest, rape, and to save the life of the mother. I wish the people of America agreed, and that the laws of our nation could reflect that view. But while the nation remains so divided over abortion, I believe that the states, through the democratic process, should determine their own abortion laws and not have them dictated by judicial mandate."
- Boston Globe, Op-Ed, July 26, 2005

More from the Right:

"Every decision I have made as Governor in a very liberal state has been on the side of favoring life." – Governor Romney

- Robert Behre, "Romney Gets S.C. Support," Charleston Post-Courier, January 30, 2007

STEM CELL RESEARCH

From the Left:

"Romney has decided to support experimentation on surplus frozen embryos from in-vitro fertilization procedures."
- National Review Online, February 11, 2005

"At a campaign appearance at Brandeis University in June 2002, Romney strongly endorsed stem cell research."
- Boston Globe, December 17, 2006  Read the article

From the Center:

"Governor Mitt Romney set off a storm of criticism yesterday after he declared in a published interview that he favored banning a specific type of stem cell research. Scientists and the leader of the state Senate accused him of trying to block a promising avenue of research, even as antiabortion groups assailed him for declaring that he did not object to stem cell research involving embryos from fertility clinics."
- Boston Globe, February 11, 2005  Read the article

From the Right:

"I studied the issue for many months, and entered into conversation with experts from across the nation who were looking for consensus solutions, like Stanford's Dr. William Hurlbut.  In the end, I became persuaded that the stem-cell debate was grounded in a false premise, and that the way through it was around it: by the use of scientific techniques that could produce the equivalent of embryonic stem cells but without cloning, creating, harming, or destroying developing human lives."
- Governor Mitt Romney, Op-Ed, "A Stem-Cell Solution," National Review Online, June 15, 2007

EMERGENCY CONTRACEPTION

From the Left:

"When he ran for governor in 2002, Romney said he supported expanding access to the emergency contraception pill, a high dose of hormones that women can take to prevent pregnancy up to five days after sex . . . On a questionnaire Planned Parenthood gave to the gubernatorial candidates in 2002, Romney answered 'yes' to the question, 'Do you support efforts to increase access to emergency contraception?' "
- Boston Globe, July 7, 2005

From the Right:

"Yesterday I vetoed a bill that the Legislature forwarded to my desk. Though described by its sponsors as a measure relating to contraception, there is more to it than that. The bill does not involve only the prevention of conception: The drug it authorizes would also terminate life after conception."
- Governor Mitt Romney, Op-Ed, "Why I Vetoed The Contraception Bill," Boston Globe, July 26, 2005  Read the article

GAY RIGHTS

From the Left:

"All citizens deserve equal rights, regardless of their sexual orientation. While he does not support gay marriage, Mitt Romney believes domestic partnership status should be recognized in a way that includes the potential for health benefits and rights of survivorship."
- Romney's 2002 campaign website

"Mitt and Kerry Wish You a Great Pride Weekend! All citizens deserve equal rights, regardless of their sexual preference"
- A flier handed out at "Gay Pride" by the Romney/Healey Campaign  See the flier here

"We have discussed a number of important issues such as the Federal Employment Non-Discrimination Act (ENDA), which I have agreed to co-sponsor, and if possible broaden to include housing and credit, and a bill to create a federal panel to find ways to reduce gay and lesbian youth suicide, which I also support. One issue I want to clarify concerns [grammar in context] President Clinton's "don't ask, don't tell, don't pursue" military policy. I believe that the Clinton compromise was a step in the right direction. I am also convinced that it is the first of a number of steps that will ultimately lead to gays and lesbians being able to serve openly and honestly in our nation's military. That goal will only be reached when preventing discrimination against gays and lesbians is a mainstream concern, which is a goal we share…"
- Governor Romney letter to Log Cabin Republicans, October 6, 1994  Read the letter here

From the Right:

Lopez: "And what about the 1994 letter to the Log Cabin Republicans where you indicated you would support the Federal Employment Non-Discrimination Act (ENDA) and seemed open to changing the "don't ask, don't tell" policy in the military? Are those your positions today?

Gov. Romney: "No. I don't see the need for new or special legislation. My experience over the past several years as governor has convinced me that ENDA would be an overly broad law that would open a litigation floodgate and unfairly penalize employers at the hands of activist judges...As for military policy and the 'don't ask, don't tell' policy, I trust the counsel of those in uniform who have set these policies over a dozen years ago. I agree with President Bush's decision to maintain this policy and I would do the same."
- Interview with National Review, December 14, 2006  Read the interview

MARRIAGE AMENDMENT

From the Left:

In 2002, before the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court declared same-sex marriage protected by the Constitution, Romney denounced as "too extreme" the effort by pro-family groups to enact a preemptive state Marriage Protection Amendment prohibiting homosexual marriage, civil unions and same-sex public employee benefits.
- Boston Phoenix, May 14-20, 2004

From the Right:

MSNBC's Joe Scarborough: "Do you support a national constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage?"

Governor Romney: "Boy, I sure do. You know, that's a topic that's really, I think, very important to the country because marriage is not just about adults. Marriage is about the development and nurturing of kids, and in my view, the development of a child is enhanced by having a mom and dad. And so, I think it's very important that we have a national standard because marriage is a status. You get married in one place and then you move to another, you're still married at least in the eyes of the community and the children and the benefits may not follow you, but ultimately we're going to have one standard of marriage in this country and that standard ought to be one man and one woman."
- MSNBC's "Morning Joe" September 17, 2007

GUN RIGHTS

From the Left:

"He [Romney] is a supporter of the federal assault weapons ban."
- Romney 2002 campaign website

More from the Left:

In his 1994 US Senate run, Romney backed two gun-control measures strongly opposed by the National Rifle Association and other gun-rights groups: the Brady Bill, which imposed a five-day waiting period on gun sales, and a ban on certain assault weapons.

"That's not going to make me the hero of the NRA," Romney told the Boston Herald in 1994.

At another campaign stop that year, he told reporters: "I don't line up with the NRA."
- Boston Globe, January 14, 2007  Read the article

From the Right:

"Americans should have the right to own and possess firearms as guaranteed under the U.S. Constitution," said Governor Romney. "I'm proud to be among the many decent, law-abiding men and women who safely use firearms."
- Governor Romney, News Release, January 12, 2007

WAITING PERIODS FOR GUNS

From the Left:

Regarding the Brady Bill which required waiting periods to buy a handgun, Romney stated, "I don't think [the waiting period] will have a massive effect on crime but I think it will have a positive effect."
- Boston Herald, August 1, 1994

From the Right:

"Romney says he still backs the ban on assault weapons, but he won't say whether he stands by the Brady Bill.  And after the gun show tour, his campaign declined to say whether he would still describe himself as a supporter of tough gun laws."
- Boston Globe, January 14, 2007  Read the article

MINIMUM WAGE INCREASE

From the Left:

"The minimum wage is important to our economy and Mitt Romney supports minimum wage increase, at least in line with inflation."
- Romney 2002 campaign website

From the Right:

Governor Mitt Romney yesterday rejected the Legislature's plan to raise the state minimum wage to $8 an hour over two years, angering Democratic lawmakers and advocates who accused him of abandoning a 2002 campaign pledge to significantly boost the pay of low-wage workers.
- Boston Globe, July 22, 2006  Read the article

EDUCATION

During his 1994 campaign for Senate he continually called for the abolishment of the Department of Education.
- Club for Growth's White Paper on Mitt Romney

Governor Romney now supports the No Child Left Behind Act.
- Club for Growth's White Paper on Mitt Romney

IMMIGRATION

From the Left:

In a November 2005 interview with the Boston Globe, Romney described immigration proposals by McCain and others as "quite different" from amnesty, because they required illegal immigrants to register with the government, work for years, pay taxes, not take public benefits, and pay a fine before applying for citizenship.

"That's very different than amnesty, where you literally say, 'OK, everybody here gets to stay,' " Romney said in the interview. "It's saying you could work your way into becoming a legal resident of the country by working here without taking benefits and then applying and then paying a fine."

Romney did not specifically endorse McCain's bill, saying he had not yet formulated a full position on immigration. But he did speak approvingly of efforts by McCain and Bush to solve the nation's immigration crisis, calling them "reasonable proposals."

Romney also said in the interview that it was not "practical or economic for the country" to deport the estimated 12 million immigrants living in the US illegally. "These people contribute in many cases to our economy and to our society," he said. "In some cases, they do not. But that's a whole group we're going to have to determine how to deal with."
- Boston Globe, March 16, 2007  Read the article

From the Right:

In his appeals to conservative voters, Romney has made the Arizona senator's work on immigration one of his favorite targets. When McCain and other senators unveiled the latest reform bill two weeks ago, Romney called it the "wrong approach" and immediately launched a television ad slamming "amnesty" for illegal immigrants.
- Boston Globe, June 1, 2007  Read the article

TAXES

From the Left:

"Governor Romney…imposed a slew of fee hikes and tax 'loophole' closures….The largest of these was $259 million worth of fee hikes in FY 2004, the bulk of which came from higher Registry of Deeds fees.  Smaller fee hikes, including higher charges for boaters and golfers, we imposed in FY 2003 and FY 2005.  Romney also sought $128 million worth of so-called tax loophole closures for FY 2004; $70 million for FY 2005; and $170 million for FY 2006, which were later reduced to $85 million due to backlash from business leaders."
- Club for Growth's White Paper on Mitt Romney

"Romney continues to oppose the flat tax with harsh language, calling the tax 'unfair.'"
- Club for Growth's White Paper on Mitt Romney

Romney didn't support President Bush's tax cuts in 2003.  That earned him praise from liberal Congressman Barney Frank (D-MA)  
- Boston Globe, April 11, 2003.

From the Right:

"I said no to a tax hike; raising taxes hurts working people and scares away jobs. I also said no to more borrowing; borrowing just shifts our problems to the backs of our kids...Instead, I went after waste, inefficiency, duplication, and patronage."
- Governor Romney, Boston Globe, October 24, 2005

NO NEW TAXES PLEDGE

From the Left:

In 2002, Romney broke with his predecessor, Jane Swift, and Republican governors before her by declining to sign a written vow not to raise taxes once in office.

- Boston Globe, January 5, 2007  Read the article

From the Right:

Almost five years after he refused to sign a "no new taxes" pledge during his campaign for governor, Mitt Romney announced yesterday that he had done just that, as his campaign for the 2008 Republican presidential nomination began in earnest.
- Boston Globe, January 5, 2007  Read the article

CAMPAIGN FINANCE LAWS

From the Left:

Governor Romney has changed his position on key campaign finance reform issues several times during public life. During his 1994 Senate campaign, he held far left positions that advocated for abolishing PACs and creating strict campaign spending limits.

- Club for Growth's White Paper on Mitt Romney

From the Right:

As he runs for President, Romney abandoned his previous stance and has come out as a harsh critic of McCain-Feingold, and those presidential candidates who support it. His transformation has even propelled him to call for the legislation's repeal.
- Club for Growth's White Paper on Mitt Romney

ON HIS FAVORITE BOOK

From the Left:

He told Fox News his favorite book is L. Ron Hubbard's "Battlefield Earth"

From the Right:

He also told Fox news his favorite book is the The Bible

Or

Who Knows:

His MySpace page said his favorite book is "Huckleberry Finn"

Read more news articles on Mitt Romney's Record
Watch a video from Mitt Romney's 1994 debate with Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-MA)

Re: Guiliani's Florida strategy:
Perhaps someone should inform Mr. Guiliani that only half of Florida's delegates will count at the Republican convention.

I think Romney and Pauls campaigns are in trouble... http://www.enewsreference.wordpress.com

If being 1st lady is a qualification to run by that logic Laura Bush should be good to go right?  

HRC has done some time in the Senate but historically the more time spent in the Senate translates to less electability.  In the Senate hard compromises are needed that over time erode a candidate's sense of who they really are.  I say the experience meme for Hillary is officially overblown and her voting record is indefensible...

I'm curious...

If Ric Flair is worth a front page post, then is Kane?

http://people.ronpaul2008.com/endorsements/2007/12/19/glenn-jacobs/

And since Flair (and your beloved Chuck Norris) has been mentioned on MSNBC between 5-8pm... then I presume you'll be announcing this endorsement as well?  I'm assuming that you didn't know of this endorsement.  But now that you do... you'll be broadcasting it far and wide, right?

My God.  I am not an American, so I dont vote.  But looking at the way the americans attact this women, she has to be really tuff to stand so much.  Mr. Obama, has no foreign policy experience at all unless we take his trip to Indonesia at 10 years old as experience.  

All the news I hear via fox, cnn, nbc, ect...thru the cabel tv in my country. Are all attacking this person, If you guys would become more inpartial in your judgments you would make the world a lot more safer.  And you would try to regain your roll as a Counrty with some values and intelligence.

I am looking forward to read Mr. Obamas, Mr. Mckains, Mr. Roomny, Mr. Huck, Mr. Edwards and all others resume.  In a more partial way.  Hope you guys really make a good choice this time, because every time you elect a bad president all the world is affected.

From CNN Raw politics for Thursday 12/20/07:


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0712/20/acd.01.html

'... want to read you something that "TIME" magazine's editor at large mentioned to "The Washington Post," Mark Halperin. He said: "She's just held to a different standard in every respect. The press rooted for Obama to go negative. When he did, he was applauded. When she does it, it's treated as this huge violation of propriety. It's not a level playing field."

JENNIFER DONAHUE, SENIOR ADVISER FOR POLITICAL
AFFAIRS, NEW HAMPSHIRE INSTITUTE OF POLITICS AT SAINT
ANSELM COLLEGE:
Well, they're doing it in an entirely
different way.

When Barack Obama went negative on Hillary Clinton, he did it after Edwards did, first of all,. He grilled it and got it ready. And then Obama flipped it, and he basically did it in a way that was policy-based, issue-based.

What Kerry did the other day and what happened last
week on the drug issue with Shaheen, and, moreover,
with Mark Penn, who then kept repeating it over and
over and over, they're playing the race card. This is
not some small thing where they're saying, like Gore
did about Bradley in 2000, he wanted to raise the
retirement age, when, in fact, he didn't.

This is the race card. They're attacking his race. And I think it's really above the pale. Voters here don't like it.

COOPER: David Gergen, do you agree with that?

GERGEN: No, I don't, I don't think they're playing the race card at all. He happens to be black. He also
happens to be a very major, dramatic candidate.

(CROSSTALK)

DONAHUE: You don't think that saying that -- that --
that selling drugs, and that, did he buy it, did he
use them, did he sell them, has anything to do with
race?

GERGEN: Wait a minute. We went through a whole
campaign back in 2000 in New Hampshire about George
Bush and drugs, and he happened to be white.

We have had various other candidates who happened to
have been white, there have been questions raised
about their drug usage. I do think, when you start
using the word cocaine, as Mark Penn did, it does
suggest it, and I think it can have some
reverberations.

But I think it is unfair to say that they're playing
the race card. I do think they have been clumsy, but I think they're -- playing the race card suggests it's racially motivated and, in effect, it's racist. I think that's unfair to them.

COOPER: John King?

DONAHUE: Well, I guess -- if I could just really
quickly...

KING: Anderson, I'm getting e-mails -- as we're having this discussion, Anderson -- as we're having this discussion, I'm getting e-mails from Democrats. One of them suggests, go to the Web site
hillaryattacksbarackobama.com. They say that is an
Obama Web site. I can't tell you if that is true or
not.

But this is the kind of thing that happens at this
point in a campaign. The Clinton campaign would also
point out, very early in the campaign, an Obama press
release said, "Hillary Clinton D-Punjab," making fun
of the money she was raising from Indian sources that
the Obama campaign was questioning. Senator Obama had
to apologize for that.

So, there's a lot of this from all camps in the
campaign, some of it authorized, some of it not, some
of it done by kids who go overboard in their first
campaign, especially their first presidential
campaign.

But does it matter in electing a president? I don't
really know. It's not much about the economy. It's not much about what you do in Iraq.

(CROSSTALK)

KING: But it does set the tone of the campaign.

COOPER: Jennifer?

DONAHUE: Anderson, can I just jump in? Because I want
to hear David's perspective.

I mean, would you also say, then, that Huckabee is not playing the religion card against Romney?

GERGEN: No, I think he is playing the religion card.

But that's -- that's said in a positive way. But I
think, when you say somebody is playing a race card,
you suggest that they have racist motives and they
have a racist quality to them.

DONAHUE: I don't -- well, I guess I don't...

GERGEN: I think that's unfair to the people involved.

DONAHUE: They're trying to -- but don't you think -- I don't mean that Hillary Clinton is trying to play a
race card, but I think that they're bringing up the
issue of fear of African-Americans in a way that is
either intentional or not, but is real....'

From CNN on Thursday night.....

If you want to believe thaty Hillary is inexperienced what does that make Obama or Edwards?   Total puppies?  

Fact is Clinton met more world leaders in one year as First Lady then Edwards and Obama have met in their lives - combined.

The fact is that Clinton has accomplished more in the Senate than either of them.

The fact is Clinton has been working in politics longer - with more results - than either of them.

If you watch the foreign policy segements of the debates, there is no question is the top candidate in the race when it comes to foreign policy and national security -- it is Hillary Clinton.

When it's all said and done, the fluff that is Barak Obama will become aparent.  He has as much chance of becoming President as Ross Perot did.

Hillary would have been better served if she stayed in the US Senate a bit longer, waited until NY Gov. Spitzer's first term was over, primary him and win because of his unpopularity, and become NY's first woman governor. Then, springboard from there to become the US's first female president.  Then, all this experience talk, first lady nonsense, and the unelectability of a US senator, would be moot.

Where is the story on the new poll out today having Hillary up by 15 in Iowa. Why is it anytime there is a poll showing Obama up, we have it up within seconds, whether it looks like an outlier or not but when it's Hillary who's up, there is no mention of it?

I refer to the POST BY Earl Biegert, Hamilton, Ohio (Sent Wednesday, December 26, 2007 10:21 AM)

Thank you Earl for saying exactly what I feel.  I would never vote for someone like Obama.
His supporters all do appear to be young and in their twenties for the most part and we all know those people are irresponsible and don't vote.

Obama won't win, but if by some fluke he did win the nomination I would be hoping for Michael Bloomberg and Chuck Hagel to form an independent ticket and I would support them.  All of the Republican candidates are badly flawed, and have some major reason I could not vote for any of them either but I too would not vote for Obama, Imagine President Hussein Obama, I cannot.
We have good Democrat candidates all but Obama, Kucinich and Gravel.  I could support any of the rest of them but my favorite is Senator Clinton.

Even if she does lose Iowa she is way ahead nationally.
I just did a straw poll on AOL this morning and she was 19 points ahead of Obama and it showed all of the states too. She was ahead in Iowa and NH in that straw poll too.
I feel confident that she will win but in the meantime we will just have to put up with these stupid bashers on this blog and Chris Matthews blasting her. He is worse than Fox news.  She's great and she was first lady of both Arkansas and America, is a lawyer and has been in the Senate now for 6 years and furthermore having Bill Clinton as her advisor is invaluable to this country.  We need the Clintons to pull this country back together again after the disasterous Bush years.

The equation is really quite simple... If you want what has always been, vote for those who always were. If you want what can be but, never was, vote that way. If you want a combination of the two, because you are as most, afraid of change, you will vote the former. Sad because (with the exception of God himself)which never changes, will surely become extinct.

Hillary Clinton met more world leaders in one year as a first lady than Edwards and Obama - combined - have met in their entire lives.  There is real experience there.

Dickie Flatts:
Can you show us one article or one piece of undenible proof that Hillary sent Bill back to the oval office while she sat down and discussed issues with these world leaders???????

“America faces a war abroad and a troubled economy at home -- critical moments that demand a President who is tested, ready to lead on Day 1 and offers real solutions to the big challenges we face. And that person is Hillary Clinton.”

Unless Hillary was the main planner in Somilia when Blackhawks were being shot out of the sky, someone really needs to explain how sitting behind her husband gives her the right to call herself "battle tested".  There is no proof she is "battle tested" and for her campaing to make assumptions like that is just laughbale.  No wonder Barrock is taking over in the race.

She touts her experience by association with her husband.  If so, would that mean Monica Lewinsky also has experience to run this country? Would Jennifer Flowers have experience to be governor of Arkansas?

According to the book on the impeachment of Bill Clinotn, Monica was in the room when Bill took a phone call from the Israeli prime minister....
That, according to the Clinton campaign, would give Monica foreign policy experience.....

Being the first lady should never have been used as Hillary's "experience." However, she is in a double bind. Without her husband and his name recognition, it's unlikely she would even be a NY senator. It's also unlikely she'd be a top presidential contender without the recognition she's earned as a former first lady. She can't discount Bill, but her "experience" with him does not qualify her for the presidency.

The other aspect that disturbs me is that people didn't vote for Hillary. They voted for her husband. The spouse of a president should NOT be setting policy or even suggesting it. There should be legislation ensuring that presidential spouses are not given access to private information. They haven't earned the right to this information any more than an average citizen, and it is just plain wrong to vote for one person and get the advice and power of his/her spouse.

Yes, Earl, that's very believable; I'm sure that my post at the top of this thread, in which I display preference for no candidate, is the reason you're not voting for Obama in the general, and that you would have voted for him otherwise.

Where is the story on the new poll out today having Hillary up by 15 in Iowa. Why is it anytime there is a poll showing Obama up, we have it up within seconds, whether it looks like an outlier or not but when it's Hillary who's up, there is no mention of it?

Ernest – good question.  I think it’s because MSNBC, led by the raving, ranting lunatic Chris Matthews (the host of Hardball) decided about 2 months ago that they wanted Obama to win.  So any good news about Hillary goes unreported while Obama’s chances are hyped – even in the face of national polls which continually show Hillary with a 20-30 point lead.

In other words, MSNBC is about as reputable lately as FOX.

Ernest: The new poll you mention is based on data from the American Research Group. Their polls are notoriously inaccurate. However, there is mention of the poll in several online news sites, so I don't think the story is being buried.

Earl Biegert, Hamilton, Ohio /

   some people don't like to hear the truth about hillary, the clinton's are arrogant, elitist, devious, self-serving trash who's sole purpose is to see that the status quo is maintained in d.c., they offer the american public nothing but more of the same, they deserve nobody's respect, you sir are surely a fool if you look at them in any other manner

Sierra, SF

Do you do ANYTHING other than "cut and paste" all freaking day long. For those of us with an IQ greater than double digits, we don't appreciate to have to scroll ad nauseum through your swill to get to the next post that isn't the nonsensical ramblings of someone seriously deranged.

I didn't realize one of the nicest things about the holidays was that you weren't posting for two whole days - whatever did you do with yourself? I hope you didn't have to go around kicking any cats or knocking over old ladies to give you some Christmas cheer!

But now the holidiays are over and you can get back to your bitter, hating ways! What a life!

HILLARY and BILLARY '08

Can't wait to see the latest from Van!!!

Response to Pat in Boston:
<<"Hillary Clinton is an extremely intelligent, popular Senator in New York.">>

Well, Senator Clinton may be FROM New York, but many of us here in Manhattan we don't actually think of her as either intelligent or popular.

Let's see former president Clinton says his wife is a world class genius. This coming from a guy who brought us the Whitewater scandal, Filegate, Travelgate,Paula Jones, Catherine Willy, Vince Foster's suspicious demise, the Lewinsky scandal, a new use for cigars and then perjured himself under oath. Not to mention his timely bombings of a Chinese embassy building (by accident), a baby formula factory in Somolia, an abandoned terrorist camp in the Middle East just when major scandals about him were to be front page news. Do we really need more of this? I hope we as a nation are smarter than that!!  

Earl Biegert wrote:
You are mean spirited, pugnacious, and politically-blood-thirsty people with whom I don't want my party's ideology affiliated.

__________

It is sad to see people let someone on a message board bully them into any opinion. Please sir, vote based on what and who you believe in, and let that vote speak for itself.

Also I would add, it is interesting that things are only considered out of hand when it is our preferred candidate on the receiving end. Otherwise, all topics are considered a part of necessary "vetting" . . . what a curious double standard.

I choose to trust the common sense of the people in Iowa!  Don't just "Take a look", but vote or Joe Biden!

Dickie Flatts, Charlotte, NC - "If you want to believe thaty Hillary is inexperienced what does that make Obama or Edwards?   Total puppies?  

Fact is Clinton met more world leaders in one year as First Lady then Edwards and Obama have met in their lives - combined.

The fact is that Clinton has accomplished more in the Senate than either of them.

The fact is Clinton has been working in politics longer - with more results - than either of them.

If you watch the foreign policy segements of the debates, there is no question is the top candidate in the race when it comes to foreign policy and national security -- it is Hillary Clinton."

Spoken like a die hard Senator Clinton fan.  By your way of thinking having tea with the wives of other nation's leaders equates into having foriegn policy experience.  I am not bashing Senator Clinton here, rather just saying that she was not in any real meaningful discussion with the leaders of all those nations while she was traveling.  I would be happy to hear what great pieces of legislation she has authored and passed while in the Senate though.  I really would.  So please let me know what all she really has accomplished.

If the GOP wants to keep the White House, the BEST thing they can do is keep Clinton and Obama in the fore-front and headlines.

[Then, all this experience talk, first lady nonsense, and the unelectability of a US senator, would be moot.
Pat Huntington NY]
--Pat, you seem to be saying some very smart things today.  The only problem is that she didn't do any of that, so it is not currently moot.  I believe that she and Bill had one goal when running for U.S. Senate (NY), and that was to eventually run for U.S. President.  I'm up in the air about their marriage, but if they had to wait another 8 years to run ...?

Barack Obama for President.

It's time for America to Rise and Shine again.

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