I'm still waiting (and I know I'm not alone) for an answer of where this group as well as Clinton get their 15,000,000 figure from.

Till then, they can all talk and yell till they're blue in the face, but I (and a lot of others) won't believe it.

Let's elect a grown-up.

BIDEN '08

I have read many posts today that Senator Clinton's poll numbers are going up in Iowa. Perhaps I am naive.

Maybe Bill Clinton and her campaign know what they're doing afterall.  

Sounds like a nice ad.  Bet he wishes he had a union pulling for him.

"negative mail campaign that slams Obama's "Band-Aid solution" and gripes that "15 million Americans can't afford to wait for Obama's actions to catch up to his promises.""
--First, I reject the Band-Aid argument.  Even if his healthcare plan is a quote 'Band-Aid' solution, his plan is apparently 95% similar to hers and Edwards' as I understand it, so what is in that 5% that makes her plan a sure fix?

--Second, people are disparaged by the healthcare in this country and want change.  I'm not going to make any assumptions as to what that change should be, but if we decide to change in the direction of Hillary, Edwards, Obama, then it is important to think about how.  Something dubbed as a 'Band-Aid' (which as a product has done wonders for the medical field), might help us ease into such a 'solution'.  Here is an analogy of what I mean.  If one throws a frog into a pot of hot water, it will jump out; yet, if one throws a frog into a pot filled with room temperature and heats it up to boiling, then the frog will boil to death.  Here is my point--if a 'President' mandates health insurance, the American people will jump.  If you ease the American people into a program, then it might work better.  So you tell me, who is offering the quote 'Band-Aid' or glitzy solution, and who is offering something more practical?

--Third, if "15 milltion American's can't afford to wait for Obama's" healthcare plan, how many of those unfortunate will be able to afford Hillary's or John's Mandated, Forced Premiums at all?

I hope people in Iowa are able to visualize what a HRC presidency would look like; Negative, and divisive all the way.

Fired Up and ready for Change!
Obama 08

Does anybody find it absolutely rediculous that Hillary needs to use her surrogates to attack the other candidates?

Her actions toward the end of this campaign remind me of GW Bush using his surrogates to out Valerie Plame.

People, this is the type of administration she will run.  If mistakes are made, it will always be "it wasn't my fault."  I've had enough of this BS with Bush.

Obama/Edwards '08

And these corrupt unions want people to take them seriously? Little wonder so many people detest unions.

The membership is ok but they manage to have corrupt leaders who do not even have the integrity to hold on the principles (opposition to health care mandates) they have publicly advocated for (at concressional hearings).

Obama, the insurance companies dream canidate

How in the world can there be 15 million reasons that Obama's health care is not up to the job. This must come from the Clinton's that have been lying for years and getting away with it. I cannot believe that AFSCME would even consider backing someone as crocked ans the Clinton's. Slick Willie has gotton away with everything from his dealings and women in Arkansas that carried to the tax payers house, the WHITE HOUSE. I am very disappointed in AFSCME in supporting a women like this who also part of her husbands dealings.

Would those be the same 15,000,000 that Hillary puts in jail for not purchasing her mandated health insurance? The same 15,000,000 who don't purchase mandated auto insurance coverage?  The same 15,000,000 who need something more than a political slogan?

This is the number that Ubama people have accepted as a fact and they say the reason is that we don't
force people to have insurance. so I don't know what
is all the fuss about???

Ron Paul.  Did you hear him on Glenn Beck?  The rest of these con artists, both GOP and Democratic are all scamming us.  The Income Tax is unconstitutional.  Do you get that?  They spend, tax and borrow too much money.  Ron Paul seems to be the only one being honest about that.  Other politicians have tried to address this in the past and they were run out of politics.  He has such a following, they can't run him out.  Get behind Ron Paul.  If not, expect the status quo in 2009 and beyond.  

If not, any Democrat is better than all the other Republicans.  The Democrats aren't as bad, but they are bad.  

McEntee, the AFSCME's head leader, said to Congress on 4/25/2007:
"However, we are concerned with the direction reform efforts have taken in some states.

For example, the Massachusetts reform model attempts to achieve near-universal coverage through the use of individual mandates that require those without access to coverage through their jobs to buy coverage in the individual market.  Although there are subsidies to help low-income families, many working families will be forced to pay much higher prices for coverage.  The most recent estimates for coverage under this initiative for a family with an income of $50,000 would include a $7,000 premium and a $2,000 deductible.  Health care costs that approach 20 percent of total family income are unaffordable and unacceptable to working families and they will ultimately doom this plan to failure.""

And now, all of a sudden when Clinton gets their support, AFSCME is in the business of flip-flopping.  Why is it that everything Clinton gets tied to, becomes a corrupt lie?

I have read many posts today that Senator Clinton's poll numbers are going up in Iowa. Perhaps I am naive.

Maybe Bill Clinton and her campaign know what they're doing afterall.
 
Pat, Boston, MA (Sent Wednesday, December 26, 2007 3:48 PM)

I won't go so far as to say you are naive because I don't know you. You do, however, seem a bit misinformed. The poll numbers that show her going "up" are from American Research Group, which produces rather unreliable results on a regular basis.

I'm still waiting (and I know I'm not alone) for an answer of where this group as well as Clinton get their 15,000,000 figure from.

Till then, they can all talk and yell till they're blue in the face, but I (and a lot of others) won't believe it.

Mike K, Denver (Sent Wednesday, December 26, 2007 3:39 PM)

Not only that, but I'm willing to venture a guess to say that those 15 million who "can't afford to wait for Obama's actions to catch up to his promises" also can't afford the mandated health insurance that Clinton and Edwards are pushing. More than knowing where they get the number 15 million, I would like to know how they plan on making people buy something they can't afford.

I have read many posts today that Senator Clinton's poll numbers are going up in Iowa. Perhaps I am naive.

Maybe Bill Clinton and her campaign know what they're doing afterall.  
Pat, Boston, MA (Sent Wednesday, December 26, 2007 3:48 PM)

She is slowly moving up as people solidify their choice.  I think it comes down to chosing to make a statement -Obama, or wanting to win the Whitehouse - Clinton.  I think when it comes to crunch time, they want to win.  C

The truth is that AFSCME's own governing body disavows any mandates to health care coverage.  

What nonsense!  There's a reason that the labor movement isn't working so well... They spend all their money on garbage like this.


A better graphic that AFSCME should show would be the millions of people getting fined or carried off to jail by the federal government for not signing up for Hillary's coverage.  

what's negative about pointing out that barak's plan leaves 15 mil uncovered? It's a fact.... oh, I see, numerical facts are negatives for obama

What Clinton and Edwards don't say is that their plans will also leave millions without coverage.  

If you pay for coverage now I am willing to wager that your cost will go up. Wake-up nothing is free. It is really scary to see all the voters with their hands out!!! What happened to personal responsibility? If you have a disability then you should be aided. This entitlement crap is getting out of hand, the more the government gives you the more they demand. You think Bush has enfringed on your rights, just wait, with this type of legislation the govt will be in your kitchen. Please think about what you are asking for!!

Senator Clinton has been proven to be a though candidate with not just EXPERIENCE, but also with conviction,intelligence, deep moral values, deep care about children and middle income families, What else is needed.

At a time where our country is walking thru a deep THRUST CRISIS not just politically, but also economic and lack of moral values never seen in the White House, we must elect a REAL president who will deliver these remedies so desperately needed.

Eventhough, I am officially a registered democratic voter, I consider myself an independent voter, I have voted for some republican officials at the local elections before, but this time like never before, I have DONE MY HOMEWORK studying the candidates and I am convinced that Senator Hillary Clinton makes the best candidate to be elected as President.

I am not going to deny that Mr. Obama has also attracted me somewhat, but he hasn't quite convinced me of his skills and his ability to command our country during these though times. His message of change is being said & repeated in all political campaigns over & over by all candidates EVEN the REPUBLICANS, There is nothing new there just political talk.  The argument that we need to move away from the Clinton's & Bush's times is so incorrect, I would give anything to change these current political times in America for the prosperity & stability times of the Clinton's era.  What was wrong with those years I ask?

As Mr Obama has said it himself the majority of his campaign personnel were ex-Bill Clinton's political advisers. So what NEW ideas and suggestions to distance ourselves from the Clinton's years  is that. I don't know, but it all sounds false promises to me.

I hope not to offend anybody with my comments, This is how I feel and I hope somebody who cares takes the time to read them & elect the right person for president

I just don't understand why you people support me for President. I have no experience, my only qualification is sleeping in whitehouse next to bill, when he was'nt out sleeping around. Please people wake up!

video response by Barack Obama:
click--
http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid353515028/bctid1353531388

Union members in Illinois and Iowa are denouncing their national leaders as hypocrites for sending out a deceptive campaign mailer aimed this week at Barack Obama. They are livid that the political arm of their 1.4 million member American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees (AFSCME) financed a mailer to Iowa voters slamming Obama for opposing individual health care mandates - the same sort of mandates long opposed by the union.

"This is definitely hypocritical, absolutely," said Carter Woodruff, an activist with Iowa AFSCME and a former official of the union state council. "It's a desperate attempt to attack [Obama] for unfounded reasons. It's a shame they stooped so low."
--
The dissident union members, indeed, pointed out that AFSCME's national health care resolution passed earlier this year declared that individual mandates are "incompatible" with the principles and interests of the union membership.

And in congressional testimony last April, AFSCME President Gerald McEntee also denounced individual mandates as they would force families to "pay much higher prices" for health care policies.

But AFSCME President McEntee is a long-time loyal supporter of the Clintons and though his union went through an extended process of internal consultation before acting it was a foregone conclusion that it would eventually put its heft into Hillary Clinton's corner. He was an early supporter of President Bill Clinton's candidacy and emerged as the most important pro-Clinton labor leader during the 1990's.
------
Testimony of Gerald W. McEntee for the Hearing on Living without Health Insurance
http://www.afscme.org/legislation-politics/14062.cfm

The reason that pollsters typically avoid polling around the holidays is the assumption that a big chunk of the population is away from home and unavailable for survey calls. As with any sort of "non-response" problem, we risk getting skewed or biased results if the missing respondents are both numerous and different in terms of their political views from those at home when we call.


What kinds of voters might be missing right now? Three years ago, in a survey concluded a full week before the holidays (12/15-17/2004), the Gallup Organization asked a national sample of 1,002 adults whether they planned "to travel more than fifty miles from home this holiday season." Twenty-eight percent (28%) said "yes." More important, as the table below indicates (based on data drawn from the Roper Archives), those planning holiday travel had a very distinctive demographic profile. Holiday travelers were much more likely to be younger and better educated. Notice also that holiday travelers were not just college students. Adults between the ages of 30 and 44 are twice as likely to travel for the holidays than those over 65. (Also, while I do not show it here, the pattern in these results by age, education and income was nearly identical for Democratic and Republican identifiers).


http://www.pollster.com/blogs/polling_on_the_dark_side_of_th.php

Victor, NJ
As Mr Obama has said it himself the majority of his campaign personnel were ex-Bill Clinton's political advisers. So what NEW ideas and suggestions to distance ourselves from the Clinton's years  is that
--------------------------------------------

You ask a very good question--If his advisors are old hands at politics, how can we be sure that Senator Obams's proposals will really result in "change."  Also, I have sometimes wondered if many of Senator Obama's advisors are the same people with whom Senator Clinton claims to have worked when her husband was President, just how much difference is their between their (Obama-Clinton) proposals?

Mike OH, Mike, Clinton does not = White House. Clinton will lose a Number of Democrats, attract no Republicams or Independents. If she wins and runs against Huckabee, Ill be voting republican for the first time. I've heard and read a number of Democrats say the same thing. She is too devisive and Unelectable!

NO EDWARD PLS -NO MUSLIM OBAM PLS- YOUNG AND NO EPXRIENCE- PERIOD- DONT MAKE MISTAKE OK?ALL AMERICNA PEOPLE; THINK TWICE- NO TO THE TOW BOYS OBAMA AND EDWARDS.

I don't know the details of Hillary's healthcare proposal, but since it copies Edwards' plan I assume it won't "put people in jail" for not having coverage.  Edwards' plan is non-punitive; it simply enrolls anyone who doesn't already have insurance (as discovered during driver's license renewals, ER visits, etc.) and uses a sliding scale based on income.  Cost-cutting measures kick in before the mandate, meaning that insurance will become more affordable before people have to purchase it, and subsidies will cover up to 100% of the premiums for those at the low end of the income scale.

I'm not a Hillary supporter, but I think we should be fair about all the candidates' policy proposals.  Here's what FactCheck.org said about Obama's plan:

"... Obama's statement that his proposal provides 'universal' health care is also suspect. Clinton based her claim on a column by The New Republic's Jonathan Cohn, who loosely estimated Obama's plan would leave 15 million uninsured. Cohn offered an estimate based on the best information available, not a hard and fast calculation. The best available information says that Obama's plan would leave between 8.5 million uninsured, up to 18 million people uninsured if Obama has no individual mandates."  

The media is misrepresenting this as a 'Clinton mailer' an not telling listeners / readers that it would be illegial for the  AFSCME to coordinate this with the Clinton campaign in anyway.  The AFSCME can do as it pleases.  Obama's health care plan does suck and Edwards has made that point.

Edwards Campaign May Have Expected Union Group Plan

By DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK
Published: December 27, 2007

John Edwards’s campaign may have known about some of the plans of a labor group that is blanketing Iowa with commercials supporting his candidacy.
An Oct. 8 e-mail has founds its way to the New York Times that should force Edwards to answer some questions tomorrow:

"...the Edwards campaign may have expected the advertisements from the organization, Alliance for a New America, set up by a local of the Service Employees International Union. An Oct. 8 e-mail message circulated among the union leaders who created the group suggests that they were talking with Edwards campaign officials about “what specific kinds of support they would like to see from us” just as they were planning to create an outside group to advertise in early primary states with “a serious 527 legal structure.”

The message, sent by the president of one of the locals involved, was obtained by a rival campaign. "

http://www.nytimes.com/glogin?URI=http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/27/us/politics/27donate.html&OQ=_rQ3D2Q26adxnnlQ3D1Q26orefQ3DsloginQ26adxnnlxQ3D1198731660-CBQ516iBkuYUk9squQ2BQ2FrQ2B52g&OP=34e43f5fQ2FQ23n1(Q23GQ22HyeQ22Q22Q5EFQ23FQ3EQ3EQ27Q23!FQ23FQ27Q23VyQ23XQ22Q3ASQ5ESHyQ23FQ27GQ22Q7EsQ5E1JtQ5EgQ3A

Clinton gets the "15 million uninsured" from predicting that 15 million young healthy adults will not buy health insurance unless there is a mandate. A mandate will force everyone to buy whether they want to or not and pay a penalty if they dont or have their wages garnished.

Obama's plan has a mandate only for young children and allows the same young healthy adults Clinton alleges wont buy insurance up to age 25 be covered under thier parents insurance.  His aim is to focus on making health insurance affordable for everyone without mandates for adults.

Obama says both plans are 96% similar with the goal of universal health care.

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