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First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



Clinton talks about Bhutto

Posted: Thursday, December 27, 2007 4:00 PM by Mark Murray

From NBC’s Andy Merten
At her second campaign stop of the day, Clinton gave a more personal account of her relationship with the late Benazir Bhutto, which dates back to her years as First Lady.

“I met her young children, her husband, her mother -- a lot of her family members,” she said while campaigning in Denison, IA this afternoon. “We stayed in touch throughout the years, met on several occasions, always talked about her commitment to bringing democracy back to Pakistan, and we talked about our children.”

Maintaining a somber tone throughout her opening remarks, the presidential hopeful continued: “This is a terrible loss -- certainly on a personal level -- for those of us who knew her, who were impressed by her commitment, her dedication, her willingness to pick up the mantle of her father, who was also assassinated. It’s a terrible, terrible, tragedy, but it’s also a tremendous loss for the people of Pakistan.”

Although her remarks this afternoon sounded more like a eulogy of the former prime minister, Clinton this morning also warned of the geopolitical implications of her assassination.  “The world once again is reminded of the dangers facing those who pursue democracy and free elections in Pakistan and elsewhere -- in areas that are rife with conflict and violence and extremism,” she said at her first stop in Lawton. And at both stops, Clinton pledged to assist the future democratization of Pakistan, both from Capitol Hill and perhaps the Oval Office.

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Just wondering how the Obama fans on this board will take this statement and say something negative about Hillary.  

Waiting...
We could have aided democracy in Pakistan by getting it right the first time, and going to war THERE and in Afghanistan instead of in Iraq.  But instead, Hillary Clinton and others were 'tricked' by Republicans into voting for the "Authorization of the Use of Military Force against Iraq" 2002 legislation.  She claims she thought she was voting for "diplomacy"... I guess she didn't read the legislation's name...

http://thepage.time.com/axelrod-on-bhutto-assassination/

Barack got Iraq right.  
"I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a US occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of al-Qaeda.

I am not opposed to all wars. I’m opposed to dumb wars."- Obama, October, 2002

And once again, Barack got it right the first time.
"Remarks of Senator Obama: The War We Need to Win" - August 1, 2007
http://www.barackobama.com/2007/08/01/remarks_of_senator_obama_the_w_1.php
This tragic event was destined to happen. US did not finish the job with Talibans in Afghanistan. Rather the job was outsourced to Musharraf by paying him billions in aid and hoping he will do the job for us and we will provide his undemocratic government legitimacy. Msuharraf himself was attacked a few times in failed assassination attempts. Few weeks ago, 190 people were killed in the 1st failed assassination attempt of Benazir Bhutto. So let's face it, the situation is volatile in Pakistan. Musharraf or Benazir or anyone else can die anytime. Now would Mrs Clinton and others who did not finish the job in Afghanistan and diverted the resource and the efforst to an ill reasoned war in Iraq leaving time and opportunity for Al Qaeda to regorup and do disaster like today's happen.

Couple of months ago, when Senator Obama talked about sending couple of more brigades in Afghan-Pakistan border, stated he would strike inside Pakistan if there is actional intelligence on high value terrorist target and Musharraf won't act, and make aid to pakistan conditional for Musharraf doing more against terrorism, Clinton attacked Obama saying he was naive. Today's event once again validate  that Obama has been ahead of Clinton is judgment. Clintons are yesterdays news. We need new leadership and we need Senator Obama in 2008.
Obama insists his looking at pictures of Bhutto is the same experience as knowing her for 16 years.

He's naive..... and Lying
Lets see the Hillay haters come and said stupid things!
Lets see the Hillay haters come and said stupid things!
Here comes the Fear card from Hillary Clinton. Have we Not had enough of that fear playing crap from our Politicians, AMERICA?
With the current crisis in Pakistan, I've got to imagine foreign policy is going right back to the forefront of the '08 campaign, and this can only help Hillary in Iowa next week. I would also argue Mike Huckabee might be facing his biggest obstacle yet in the notion of him having no foreign policy experience, and that Romney may just pull this thing off after all. Or, maybe McCain pulls off a monster of an upset!
Pakistan is also a country that, as a harbor for both Islamic extremism and nuclear arms knowhow, today more than ever poses one of the most dangerous threats to America and the West. Washington's strategy for stabilizing Pakistan had depended in great part on Bhutto, the exiled former prime minister whose pleas for democracy were once ignored by the Bush administration, but who in recent months was seen as a key to legitimizing the presidency of autocrat Pervez Musharraf by forming a political coalition with him. Bhutto was considering the idea, but she had grown increasingly leery of Musharraf, accusing him in recent weeks of failing to stop the spread of Islamic militancy. Now all those hopes, light and mind are gone.
Pakistan has moved 20 years behind.
Barack Obama has consistently attacked democrats such as Hillary Clinton and John Edwards using Rovian tactics. Barack Obama should immediately apologize for these remarks.

It is also time for the mainstream media to do its job and vet Obama. His inept comments on Pakistan in the past should not be discussed in light of this situation. As Joe Biden notes, this shows that we need grownups to do the job as President.
I am an Obama supporter and I think these personal remarks by Hillary were very appropriate. They relate to Hillary's time as First Lady and her personal feelings about her friendship with Mrs. Bhutto. Where I think the Clinton campaign crosses the line in this tragedy is sending out surrogates like Evan Bayh to say that this somehow shows Mrs. Clinton has special foreign policy expertise. The New York Times wrote in great detail yesterday that Hillary was not involved in day-to-day foreign policy issues or decisions. Of course as First Lady Hillary met various world leaders. So did Nancy Reagan and Laura Bush, and every other First Lady. But that is not experience that qualifies one for being president.
Bhutto agreeing on Obama's Pakistan stance:

Bhutto's reaction to Obama's Pakistan policy: "But the issue that I would like to stress is that Barack Obama also said, if Pakistan won't act. And that's the critical issue, that the government has to act. And the government has to act to protect Pakistan's own serenity and integrity, its own respect, and to understand that if it creates a vacuum, then others aren't going to just twiddle their thumbs while militants freely move across the border." -- Benazir Bhutto, August, 2007 ....
Hilary Clinton on the assignation of Benazir Bhutto: “I came to know Mrs. Bhutto over many years, during her tenures as Prime Minister and during her years in exile.”

Hey Hilary, how come this statement differs with your autobiography Living History which indicates otherwise? Just exactly how many meetings and when were they?

Hilary is attempting to gain political points by stating she had many ties to a great person who was just recently assonated. Not only is the principal of gaining political points at this time considered low-brow & crass but the ties were not ever there; another fabrication. That’s why I don’t let her just say anything; I insist on honor and truth, of which Hilary has neither.
I'm not an Obama fan but here's my take on how they would come out negatively on this statement:

Hillary met a lot of Benazir's family members - further proof that she spends too much time in Washington cozying up to lobbyists... ooops a former leader of an Islamic country.

Obama was right, we should bomb Pakistan back to the Stone Age. Forget he said that, Obama has another plan to change the world. He'll meet with the Taliban in some cold, dark cave in the Afghan-Pakistan border. They'll have a change of heart, make peace with America and promote democracy after Obama's speech.



Todd & Co., How come you decide not to post my comments over and over. I have posted 3 times today and not once it was posted. Is it a law in this country already that no one can write anything anywhere that does not agree with Clintons? Or you guys are in self confinement?

This tragic event was destined to happen. US did not finish the job with Talibans in Afghanistan. Rather the job was outsourced to Musharraf by paying him billions in aid and hoping he will do the job for us and we will provide his undemocratic government legitimacy. Msuharraf himself was attacked a few times in failed assassination attempts. Few weeks ago, 190 people were killed in the 1st failed assassination attempt of Benazir Bhutto. So let's face it, the situation is volatile in Pakistan. Musharraf or Benazir or anyone else can die anytime. Now would Mrs Clinton and others who did not finish the job in Afghanistan and diverted the resource and the efforst to an ill reasoned war in Iraq leaving time and opportunity for Al Qaeda to regorup and do disaster like today's happen.

Couple of months ago, when Senator Obama talked about sending couple of more brigades in Afghan-Pakistan border, stated he would strike inside Pakistan if there is actional intelligence on high value terrorist target and Musharraf won't act, and make aid to pakistan conditional for Musharraf doing more against terrorism, Clinton attacked Obama saying he was naive. Today's event once again validate  that Obama has been ahead of Clinton is judgment. Clintons are yesterdays news. We need new leadership and we need Senator Obama in 2008.
Way to go Hill! You are a true leader and statesman (stateswoman that is!)Your compassion and leadership is exactly what we need right now.

Democrats wake up and realize that the media is deciding who should be your president (or at least the nominee). The media has all but circled their wagons around Obama for reasons that I cannot understand. He is a very junior U.S. senator who doesn't have much of a record. By all accounts, he is neither a bad person nor even a bad choice, but when examined he does not seem to warrant the hoopla and press protection that he is afforded. I am only left to speculate that there is a fair amount of misogyny among the press (see Chris Matthews, Tim Russert, tucker, etc.)and that the first black president is somehow more palatable to them than the first woman. Also, does the press actually treat Obama different than the other because he is black? Are they afraid that if they are critical of him at all that they will be accused of racism or "high tech lynching"? The answer is yes.
Uh, hello Ron -
I would say that Hillary was voting with the same intelligence that the president and 'republicans' relied on, meaning that given what they knew and the circumstances, they all felt it was the right thing to do - as did a majority of this country. Of course, no matter what you do there are consequences and hindsight is 20/20. You can always wonder what would have happened and what other factors would have come into play had we taken a different approach. This is real life. You can't do instant replay! Things are constantly changing - we live in a very dynamic time. It is foolish to lump together anyone who thought that going into Iraq was necessary, for you are talking about a bipartisan majority of the country!
I am in a large, and still growing, group of Democrats who will do anything and everything to undermine her hopes and dreams of EVER living in the White House again.Mike ( Denver) & it grows by the seconds.It's about time people got off there lazy butt's & stood up to the Establishment.There is an Overwhelming Majority who will make sure Hillary is Not POTUS.Inhale that, BILL!!!!
Rick,ky, Hey dude you are nothing more than a misogynist. So you hate women and you won't vote for one. Bid deal. There are people who won't vote for Obama because he is black. Get a life.

Uh, hello Ron -
I would say that Hillary was voting with the same intelligence that the president and 'republicans' relied on, meaning that given what they knew and the circumstances, they all felt it was the right thing to do - as did a majority of this country. Of course, no matter what you do there are consequences and hindsight is 20/20. You can always wonder what would have happened and what other factors would have come into play had we taken a different approach. This is real life. You can't do instant replay! Things are constantly changing - we live in a very dynamic time. It is foolish to lump together anyone who thought that going into Iraq was necessary, for you are talking about a bipartisan majority of the country!
Kathryn in Bham (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 5:34 PM)


Normally, I would agree with you, but Barack Obama's FORESIGHT is 20/20.
Everyone needs to remember what Barack Obama said in a speech in October of *2002*:
"I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a US occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of al-Qaeda.

I am not opposed to all wars. I’m opposed to dumb wars."

This IS real life.  With REAL consequences.  You make the WRONG choice and people die, money is lost, and the country loses power.  We can't afford someone with lackluster follow-the-pack judgment.  We need someone who can see through political rubbish and make the CORRECT decision.
Well said Ron -
I would agree with your statement totally. We do need someone who will think critically and we do need someone who can not just talk about, but implement, a change in the right direction! I think we need someone who realizes a need to finish our work in Iraq and redirect as quickly as possible (as opposed to immediately).

So much has been said today, but very little from Huckabee (who I have been a great fan of from the start). I know that no one is reporting his take on things as he doesn't have the background to give his stance weight, however, I am interested to know what direction he thinks this takes us and how he thinks he would handle it. And to all those who feel he is not intelligent enough to take this on - first of all we are all human, who IS ready for the job from the get go and secondly, I do know he is very well educated, as I study under one of his college professors and friends who happens to be one of the most respectable and intelligent men I know.
Wonder where that leaves his thoughts...Obviously as we discover more details everyone's thoughts will evolve. Just wondered what his take is right now.
Thanks to the war in Iraq THAT HILLARY VOTED FOR, we have more extremists going between Afghanistan and Pakistan b/c we neglected the war in Afghanistan!

Hillary chose to criticize Obama for these statements back in August.  Funny how again, he was right and she was wrong:

"As President, I would make the hundreds of millions of dollars in U.S. military aid to Pakistan conditional, and I would make our conditions clear: Pakistan must make substantial progress in closing down the training camps, evicting foreign fighters, and preventing the Taliban from using Pakistan as a staging area for attacks in Afghanistan.

I understand that President Musharraf has his own challenges. But let me make this clear. There are terrorists holed up in those mountains who murdered 3,000 Americans. They are plotting to strike again. It was a terrible mistake to fail to act when we had a chance to take out an al Qaeda leadership meeting in 2005. If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will.

And Pakistan needs more than F-16s to combat extremism. As the Pakistani government increases investment in secular education to counter radical madrasas, my Administration will increase America's commitment. We must help Pakistan invest in the provinces along the Afghan border, so that the extremists' program of hate is met with one of hope. And we must not turn a blind eye to elections that are neither free nor fair -- our goal is not simply an ally in Pakistan, it is a democratic ally."
America is truly sad if they're going to allow the death of BHUTTO  to enhance HRC's resume.  Talk about timing! Allow these people to mourne. Wow, they, Clinton staffers, will reach at anything for their gain---and Americans are just that gullible.
Roll barack roll. When the ocean fills the sky we will still be sailing with you. When darkness falls and fear mongers want to scare us, we will not be afraid because you are our leader. When Hillary and cohorts want to drive us insane, we will retain our sanity because you filled our ears with and hearts with solace, and more importantly you are a leader with a foresight
You dems are fighting each other for nothing, you dont have a candidate,and your stupid congress now will put your tax refunds 2 months behind, so what are you going to do ?  Get a job. Most of you dont work enough you get the welfare refund with all your illegimate children.  Hillary is a joke that was married to a pervert that had a 8 year coke habit in arkansas when governor and she didnt care, long as she had her girlfriends, so we dont want them dealing with our national security.  they need to live in a communist country because thats her interest since college.
Its seem like everyone Hillary comes into contact with Dies
I am an Obama supporter and I think Hillary's comments about Bhutto's assassination are just fine  I do however take issue with her surrogates and the media using this to push her to the forefront.  She is not all that experienced on foreign policy and has made many poor decisions that she needs to take responsibility for.

Clinton supporters keep claiming that the media is all for Obama.  But they do criticize him when it suits them.  Lately they have been picking on Hillary more, but that's because she has opened the door for it.  The thing about the media, is they are biased to whatever makes a better story.  
This is for people who dont know Pakistan and say "And once again, Barack got it right the first time".

If you think terrorists assasinated Bhutto, you know nothing about Pakistan. Pakistan is made up of different factions and each group hate each other to the extent of killing each other. All we have done so far is give them arms and channelize them against Russia (via Afghanistan/Taliban  - yes we helped in creation of Taliban by giving them arms) and India (via Islamo Facists in Kashmir) to an extent. There are Pathans, there are Mohajirs, there Baluchistan Warwazis or whatever they are called. They all were propped up by us to control USSR and India during cold war.

As the cold war died, we left them to be on their own mostly. Now the arms started getting into the control of some select few factions and they started their infighting.

So to say that we shouldn't have left Pakistan is wrong. We had left it long back and Pakistanis hate Americans because of that. If we had pursued attacks in Pakistan, then Pakistanis would have used the same nuclear weapons which we helped them build.

It's a chaos out there and to blame it on one Iraq vote shows the dumbness and lack knowledge of Pakistan from an average American.
** Arshad, Newburgh, NY  "Couple of months ago, when Senator Obama talked about sending couple of more brigades in Afghan-Pakistan border, stated he would strike inside Pakistan if there is actional intelligence on high value terrorist target and Musharraf won't act"

Lets get this straight, we send US troops into Pakistan to attack Al Qaeda, and maybe in the way, kill Pakistani citizens.  Violate Pakistani sovereignty, embarrass Musharaf, further destabilize his government, and perhaps plunge the country into a civil war?  This has happened before in Pakistan,, that is how Zulfikal Bhutto, Banazir's father, came to power!!!  And all this brilliance in a nuclear armed country, with a large share of Islamic extremist looking for an opening.  If Iraq has been a debacle, just get ready for Obama's Pakistan.  That will be a ducey!!  By the way, I spent 15 years in Pakistan and India, working for the state department, I sort of know a little bit about the area.  Too bad Barack does not know Jack!!
ROB IN PHOENIX-------your are right on----
>> Lets see the Hillay haters come and said stupid things! <<

Nope. Just have Hillay (who ever that is) lovers saiding stupid things!
Hillary was meeting world leaders when Obamba
was still smoking weed!

Barrack is a hack.
Did you hear his "Attempt"
at a response to Wolf Blitzer?
Shameful! He can't even address when
a member of his own staff put's his foot in
his mouth.

She is SOOOO much more qualified to be president
than Obama.

Hillary proves the old saying that the best man for the job is a WOMAN!
Hey Rob, Phoenix - this "misogynist" female agrees with Rick,ky - anyone but that lying Hillary.   The dems are fools if they pick another loser this time around.  The only one with any hope of getting a real majority in the general election is Obama.  My whole former Republican leaning family supports him.  But we will all make sure to turn out to vote against Hillary if she makes it to the general elections. And you can be sure that there are plenty of people like us out there who feel just as warm and fuzzy about Ms. Hill.  Anyone but Hillary '08.
Clinton like Bhutto is both very much admired and very much despised. It just depends in which fence you are. But at least, both women have the strength and qualities to defy contradictions and pursue life-changing visions; not to mention that both women walk the talk. Other presidential candidates hope and dope. Others tear and wear.
ROB NOW I KNOW WHY YOU LIKE THE COMMIE THIEF, YOU USE THE WORD DUDE, MAYBE SHE WILL MARRY YOU DUDE LMAO
To Ron, TX - America does not live by Iraq issue alone. One judgment on one issue does not guarantee good judgments on a gamut of complex issues. Iraq is not even a simple right or wrong judgment. The American people thought it was right then. It seems wrong now but it does not mean Obama is right. The current sentiment is just rendering him right.
Ron how sickeningly good that we finally have found a common ground: the knowledge that Obama is going to be a disaster for this country. Where we're not agreed, he'd still be a disaster who is ten times more intelligent, well-spoken, and ten times a better leader than Bush. Where I really love our differences, however, is that I will be gloating here pretty soon all the time about Hillary's campaign.
Hillary Rodham is an opportunist.  Arkansans loved Bill Clinton even with his shortcomings... Huckabee is my choice for president because of his high moral standards and honesty, however McCain has the knowledge and experience that no one can match.
You people are unbelievable! What is going to happen when and if Obama wins(though unlikely) and he is in office.  Will he not also have a senate and a congress to deal with? No president can do much without a vote. It takes votes for things to happen and it is never easy. The republicans will always undermine him and vise versa.  Look what the republicans do to Clinton. This will never end! Wake up america.
carole hale you make good sense cause you re a delight  I LOVE HUCK  I HAVENT BEEN TO CHURCH IN YEARS BUT JUST HEARING HIM ON TV HAS RENEWED MY FAITH
Bhutto’s father was hung, not assassinated. Also, Benazir Bhutto had 3 children not 2.  Bhutto was party "Chairman for LIFE" - how DEMOCRATIC is THAT? And last but not least don't forget that, under Bhutto, Pakistan became one of only three governments in the world to recognize the Taliban as the legitimate rulers of Afghanistan. She only turned against them when she was removed from power. Is Hillary aware of any of these FACTS?


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