ABOUT FIRST READ

First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



First thoughts: Caucus Day

Posted: Thursday, January 03, 2008 9:24 AM by Mark Murray
Filed Under:

From Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, and Domenico Montanaro
DES MOINES, IA -- This long journey actually began in earnest two days after the 2006 midterm elections, when Tom Vilsack jumped into the presidential race (though he later dropped out in February). It continued to Clinton’s January declaration, “I’m in, and I’m in it to win”; to Springfield, IL, where Obama made his announcement; to Dearborn, MI, where Romney made his; and even to this September, when Thompson officially got into the GOP race. (By the way, it is true that Rudy never actually announced.) It took us to more debates than we can remember (the Fight in Philly, the YouTubes, the widely panned Des Moines Register ones, where even Alan Keyes showed up). We witnessed discussions and disputes over serious issues (Iraq, Pakistan, health care, immigration) and not so serious ones (Rudy’s support for the Red Sox, kindergarten ambitions, teenage cocaine use, cleavage, UFO sightings). And we can’t forget Bill Clinton back on the campaign trail, the return of Elizabeth Edwards’ cancer, the $400 haircut, Norman Hsu and Tony Rezko, Oprah and Chuck Norris, the Ron Paul Revolution, Mitt’s speech on faith, Angry Edwards vs. Nice Edwards, Rudy’s rise and fall (?), McCain’s fall and rise (?), and Huckaboom to Huckabust (?).

VIDEO: NBC Politics Director Chuck Todd offers his first read on undecided Iowa voters and last minute efforts by candidates to get voters to the caucuses.

*** A guide to the post-caucus spin: That’s the prologue to the first presidential contest, which -- finally -- begins tonight in Iowa. And no matter the results, (win, lose, or tie), the post-caucuses spin will be overwhelming. But here is a quick guide beforehand: No one HAS to win more than Edwards. A victory over two celebrity candidates will be a significant feat, but a loss (or even a tie) will be hard to overcome. If Clinton wins, strike the inevitability pose; a tie, and she lives for another day (although her campaign will have to defend having 60%-plus voting against her); a second-place loss is recoverable, and third place would be a near disaster, especially if Obama comes in first. Speaking of, we can’t imagine a scenario in which Obama wins the Democratic nomination but loses Iowa. Movements need victories, and no one may be better equipped to feed off a victory than Obama. “We do have to do well in Iowa,” he admitted on TODAY. But movement candidacies have to have victories; they die quick deaths if they lose. Just ask Howard Dean.

*** The GOP side: Spending as little as he has, a Huckabee win will be seen as a tremendous upset. But for Iowa to catapult him into New Hampshire and beyond, the win needs to be big. A loss and Huckabee is like George Mason in the NCAA tournament a few years back -- a great story until they lose, and once they do, everyone forgets about them. For Romney, Huckabee actually gave him a gift: He made Iowa relevant again on the GOP side. A Romney win will mean something. But he can’t afford to go 0-2 in the first two contests. The campaign swears they can still win in Michigan if they lose the first two. But that seems like a stretch -- right now. In the race for third, McCain (or even a surprise Giuliani) finishing in that place would probably resonate the loudest. But woe unto any GOP front-runner finishing behind Paul. For more on the likely post-caucus spin, click here.

*** A caucus primer: The caucuses will be called to order at 7:30 pm ET (6:30 pm local time) on the Democratic side, and they begin at 8:00 pm ET (7:00 pm local time) on the GOP side. Democratic candidates have to hit a 15% threshold of support in each precinct caucus to win delegate equivalents, and supporters of candidates who don’t attain viability can realign with other candidates. By comparison, there is not a second-choice aspect on the GOP side; the Republican results are simply a “straw vote” of everyone who attends. Anyone can caucus in either party: A participant simply has to prove residency and register to vote in that party that night. So independents can caucus on either side, and Republicans can re-register as Democrats that night and caucus, and vice versa. The turnout on the Dem side could be anywhere from 125,000 (what it was in 2004) to 150,000-160,000 (and perhaps even higher). Since two of the major GOP candidates -- Giuliani and McCain -- aren’t spending a ton of resources in the state, Republican turnout is likely to be lower than the Democrats; figures being tossed around are 60,000 to 80,000.

*** Some final caucus thoughts: Support spread out is never as powerful as it is clustered. One campaign manager told First Read to look for Biden to beat Richardson on delegates, even though Richardson will probably have more supporters statewide. And this is something that could occur in general: It's possible, in a very close caucus vote, for a candidate to win without having the most supporters statewide. Also, if a slew of independents do participate in the Democratic caucuses tonight, it will be a continuation in the trend of indie voters leaning to the Democrats. Will Democrats end up with a 2-1-turnout advantage over the GOP tonight? Could it be more? 3-1? This is one of the more important stories that won't get as much attention tonight. And finally, not to sound too cynical, but when the average voter who is tuning in for the first time tonight -- and they see Giuliani doing his post-caucus TV interviews from Miami -- will they realize he's there for the Jan. 29 primary or will they think he's still vacationing?

*** Weather update: As of this writing, it is 9 degrees in the Des Moines area, but the day is supposed to be partly sunny, with a high of 28 degrees. Per NBC affiliate WHO-TV, the temperature at 7:00 pm ET (right before Caucus Time) will be 24 degrees, a bit warmer than it has been the past few days. The weather is expected to be similar across the state.

*** Caucus party locations: All are in the Des Moines area… Biden has his at the Science Center; Clinton’s is at the Hotel Fort Des Moines; Dodd, the Temple for Performing Arts; Edwards, the Savery Renaissance; Huckabee, the Embassy Suites Downtown; Obama, Hyvee Hall; Richardson, the Quality Inn; Romney, the Sheraton West Des Moines; and Thompson, the Marriott Downtown.

*** On the trail: Elsewhere in Iowa, Biden stops in Waterloo, Dubuque, and Davenport; Dodd is in Iowa City, Cedar Rapids, and Des Moines; Edwards visits volunteers in Des Moines, Cedar Rapids, and Davenport; Huckabee stops in Burlington and Grinnell; McCain stops by four Iowa cities/towns before traveling to New Hampshire, where he holds a media avail; Romney hits Des Moines and West Des Moines; and Thompson visits West Des Moines and Council Bluffs. Also, Giuliani campaigns in New Hampshire.

Countdown to New Hampshire: 5 days
Countdown to Michigan: 12 days
Countdown to Nevada and SC GOP primary: 16 days
Countdown to SC Dem primary: 23 days
Countdown to Florida: 26 days
Countdown to Tsunami Tuesday: 33 days
Countdown to Election Day 2008: 306 days
Countdown to Inauguration Day 2009: 383 days

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Comments

Well said, Lee
I find the idea that if the candidate one supports is not viable, that candidate then tells his supporters who their second choice should be.  Isn't that a bit presumptious of a candidate to do that?  My vote is just that, MY VOTE.  I don't think I want anyone, even a candidate that I have supported, telling me how to exercise that right. I don't get the reasoning behind that.
Dean, Waterbury, CT - Dude, chill. She hasn't lost yet. And honestly, if you abandon the party if she does lose, that's just self-destructive. (Did you see the latest Guiliani ad???)

I support Obama, but if HRC takes it, I'll happily support and volunteer for her in the general.
WHY isn't MSNBC showing this morning's latest Zogby Tracking Poll which shows Hillary fading?

OBAMA  31%

EDWARDS  27%

HILLARY  24%

Show us this poll, MSNBC!!!
jef:

I'm so tired of rehashing the exact same talk with the "health plan" debate. Making me buy something, and then telling me that you have provided me with something other than a bill is RIDICULOUS. The word "universal health care" should not be used for ANY of the plans that the leading Democratic candidates are presenting.

Senator Obama provides universal access - and considering the shady way in which the health insurance industry is currently run, that is as close as we need to get under the current system.

Mandating that I buy subpar insurance is not providing healthcare, it is providing political cover, and no amount of estimates, "expert analysis", or double talk is going to change the fact that forcing us to buy into the current system is not a solution, it is a joke.(And a windfall for insurance companies who still get to "decide" what they want to cover.)
Its nice to see the Zogby poll indicating overnight gains by Obama, but I still say no one knows what will happen tonight.

On the Republican side, sure, tracking polls are sort of believable at this point. On the Democratic side with the precinct-by-precinct 15 percent qualifier round, who knows? Looking at the numbers they're polling, seems pretty obvious even the front three won't make 15 percent in some precincts.

On another note, I read where candidates are making more gaffes as fatigue sets in. After tonight, there's another hectic 96 hours before New Hampshire. I doubt the survivors will get much sleep, so we ought to see more of that.

John Alexander,Edinboro,PA says " Remember, Bill didn't win Iowa or New Hampshire."

But Bill was not running as the incumbent. Hillary has run her campaign like she was the incumbent and the primaries were just a foregone conclusion for her. Incumbents though don't lose, and by all indications, lose badly. Hillary's inevitablily is now gone. People now will start to look for another candiate.
Notice how Biden pointed out the ignorant comments about Pakistan made by Hillary ?
Does she REALLY know anything about foreign policy ?
Is she just reading notes ?
Sierra,SF (Sent Thursday, January 03, 2008 9:53 AM)

If you actually knew anything about Biden, you would realize that a LOT of his message is centered on the fact that change takes more than words - it takes action.  As he said last night, he thinks that someday in the not too distant future Obama will be a great choice for president - like in 8 years.

Don't count Biden out.  

And P.S.  Supporters are free to switch to whomever they want, regardless of what the various campaigns have requested.  
WE WILL FLUSH YOU LEE AND SO CAL, AND BY THE WAY FINISH SCHOOL AND LEARN TO SPELL AND QUIT TRADING FOOD STAMPS FOR BOOZE.  MAYBE HUCKABEE WILL PRAY FOR YOU AND SAVE YOU IF YOU WANT TO COMMIT TO A HIGER BEING, LOL ME.
Wow, First Read, your Anti-Obama bias is showing bigtime!

Why haven't you posted the latest ZOGBY TRACKING POLL from IOWA which came out TODAY that shows HILLARY IN THIRD PLACE and OBAMA IN FIRST PLACE???

RESULTS:

OBAMA has 31%

EDWARDS has 27%

CLINTON has 24%

Isn't this worthy of publishing here First Read?? Haven't heard MSNBC mention it either. WHAT GIVES???
Hello Everyone....

And a Happy Iowa Caucus Day to all of you....

What has struck me the last month is the Obama Surge and if he can hold this lead, wins tonight, and goes on to move HRC over in N.H.....Dare I say it??? He might just go all the way.  A month ago, I had a deep conversation with my sister and she asked me what I am looking for...I answered; "I am looking for the candidate who can unite the country again."  I want the next President to have a mandate.  With the FL Primaries on the 29th of this month, I am now cast into the UNDECIDED BLOCK of voters in my state.  I am waiting to see what happens tonight and next TUE in N.H.

Jef, the Newsweek article featuring factcheck.org is just stating exactly what Hillary and Edwards have been trying to imply.

What people don't realize, however, is that "guaranteeing" health insurance is not the same as "mandating" health insurance, although Hillary and Edwards would like you to believe so.

Obama's plan guarantees that health insurance will be available for everybody.  If you can't afford it, assistance will be provided.  It doesn't mandate health insurance, however, which would make not having insurance a crime.  The last thing we need to do to solve our health care costs is make criminals out of people who weren't criminals before.  Hillary and Edwards think differently, however.  

I like Edwards, but this is one issue I disagree with him on.

Obama '08
Come on Edwards! Americans need you!

Edwards/Obama 08'
David Anders Pharr ,Tx.-Board up the windows, load up the assualt rifles and break out the Confederate flag. There will be a Democrat in the White House in January '09. You could probably start early and load your fellow Klan's men in the back of a pick up and head to new Hampshire now and start taking out all the democratic voters so the country isn't ruined.
Remember, Bill didn't win Iowa or New Hampshire.
John Alexander,Edinboro,PA (Sent Thursday, January 03, 2008 10:27 AM)

If you are referring to 1992, Bill didn't campaign in Iowa, as he conceded victory to our Senator Harkin, who was also running that year.  

It is a sad day, A Failed Washington self serving Paper Hanger is just that.

We know from past""Promises are pure crap"".

So, what is left to vote for?

This is your Vote to stop these self serving paper hanger!!!!

Don't vote """Promise"""
It is a sad day, A Failed Washington self serving Paper Hanger is just that.

We know from past""Promises are pure crap"".

So, what is left to vote for?

This is your Vote to stop these self serving paper hanger!!!!

Don't vote """Promise"""
It is a sad day, A Failed Washington self serving Paper Hanger is just that.

We know from past""Promises are pure crap"".

So, what is left to vote for?

This is your Vote to stop these self serving paper hanger!!!!

Don't vote """Promise"""
The race has to be down the wire. With polls all over the place and every candidate in good position, this will be a long night...

http://www.political-buzz.com/
"Please vote for Mitt Romney. He is the only one who has the power, intelligence, and management ability to take Christmas back from the Secularists."  I don't know what they're doing in NH, Elmer, but somehow this Christian was able to celebrate Christmas without fear of incarceration.  I am, however, afraid of Mitt.  He's on record as stating that the President has the inherent ability to lock up anyone he wants and to move money around the budget to fund his priorities and deny programs he does not favor.  In fact he seems to believe the President has virtually the powers of a dictator. http://www.boston.com/news/politics/2008/specials/CandidateQA/RomneyQA/
Kind of reminds me of that movie "The Dirty Dozen"

With all the parties you can attend tonight and all the free food and drinks and god knows what else, you can carry a pocket full of badges for whatever candidate and go from party to party and just eat and drink until you barf.
New research shows, it's "Hillary" hillaryclinton.com
Lee in Ca: David in Texus - I will fight to the death for your right to spew stupidity and hate - you have my word.


Lee. You have every right to behave like a moron. Don't let anyone tell you different.
Where are the latest Reuters/Zogby Tracking poll results?? It is all over the internet, and on other networks, but I haven't seen it anywhere here on First Read, or on MSNBC.

It shows Obama with 31%, Edwards with 27%, and Hillary dropping to 24%!! This is big news!! Why aren't you and MSNBC mentioning it??
A new ARG poll has a big Clinton lead, but it also projects 83% of registered Democrats among caucus-gers, a highly improbable number at this point. Link to poll: http://www.campaigndiaries.com/2008/01/few-more-tea-leaves-watch-proportion-of.html
Before going to vote for the future nominee, please munch on this food for thought with regards to Huckabee.  One thing that nobody is really talking about is Huckabee's idea of a national sales tax.  Reportedly, he wants to remove the IRS and put in a national sales tax.  Has anybody really considered this?  Iowans, have your thought about this?  That means everybody poor or rich gets taxed the same generally.  How does he propose that this is adjusted for larger families with dependents or for poorer families?  One would eventually have to claim income and family status with some agency...right?  So lets call this agency by a different name and not the IRS.  That will make it better.  Whow, isn't Huckabee brilliant...NOT.  What an idiot!  Consider adding $24 to every $100 you spend at the grocery store on top of the state sales tax.  If your like me with a large family, your grocery bill will climb approximately $5,000 for a year.  You can forget about Christmas!  Oh wait, just as long as we get a good Christmas message from a baptist minister by television with a floating cross, everything will be alright.  Think about buying your next car or clothes for your children. Can anyone sense how mediocre and how stupid Huckabee is?  I just hope the people of Iowa think critically about nominating him.  Nominate anyone, but Huckabee!!!!  
I'll ask once again: what exactly does Obama mean when he spouts "hope" and "change"? He HAS NO PLAN people, he might as well be running for class president! Just because he can imitate the sound of Martin Luther King's voice and tell you HIMSELF that he's the next JFK does NOT make it true!!! He is spouting empty, flowery prose that means nothing, with no plan to back it up, and I can't believe so many people are blindly following along! By the way, Hillary does not NEED Iowa like Obama does...she will remain strong long after today and she WILL be our next president!!!
you know what is truly unbelievable here??? Look how much time and money these politicians are wasting to become the president. they talk about healthcare and making sure everyone has it. how many people do you suppose this money they are spending could provide healthcare for? It's not the person running for president, it is all the big companies who give money to the one candidate that will help their company, corporation or cause the most. we need to get back to having our country, our people and our freedom the most important thing on our presidents mind. then we can sort out as a country what is most important. Not as a senate or congress, who we all know have agendas. How about these people in the senate and congress go without health insurance, you know they could afford tok pay for it out of their own pocket. before you go to caucus, before you go to vote for any one person, make sure you do your freedom fair and know who and what you are actually voting for. 4 years can be a long time.
Biden will make the surprise tonight. When many caucaus goers see him in the second round, they will jump to his ship.
Fear and Loathing or Bravery and Hope.
The choice is clear.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22476967/

NBC keeps forgetting about Ron Paul - the soon to be third place winner in Iowa. The link above leaves him out of the expectations game for some reason despite a 3 way tie for 3rd in the Iowa polls leading up to the caucus. The polls are wrong because Ron Paul supporters are more likely to turn out to vote/caucus than the other candidates AND they are less likely to be polled because most are new primary and caucus voters and many new to the Republican party. Ron will finish a strong 3rd with 5 points between him and Giuliani, McCain, and Thompson. This will be a huge win for Paul. Soon we will hear that Dr Paul raised more money than any of the "first tier" candidates Republican or Democrat in Q4. There are fairly regular donar to voter ratios which clearly show Ron will be at least 3rd in Iowa. Outside the MSM echo chamber, take a look at http://www.intrade.com where Ron Paul is third when real money is on the line. (See Winner of 2008 Republican Iowa Caucus under "field") As of 11am caucus day, it's  1) Huckabee 61%, 2) Romney 36%, 3) Field (i.e. Paul) 2.2%, 4) McCain 0.9% 5) Thompson 0.3%. Intrade will beat the pundits again. You'll see.
Chuck Todd - Have you guys not seen the latest tracking poll for Iowa put out by Zogby this morning? It shows a solid Obama lead and movement away from Clinton. Wish you would post it here.

In case you haven't seen it it says -

Obama leads with 31%, followed by Edwards with 27%, and Clinton trailing with 24%. Looks more in line with the Des Moines Register Poll which showed Obama with a solid lead - but shows Hillary fading, falling behind Edwards.
So far, campaigns relying on getting young people to step away from the computer and actually get off their butts and do something, like caucusing or voting, haven't fared nearly as well as the polls predict.  Ditto African American candidates in general, who tend to poll better than they do  when people actually vote.  But never say never.  if Obama wins because his young supporters actually decide to engage in the real world then there is hope for a shift in young voter turn-out in 2008.  Young voters really are more likely to vote for a candidate who isn't a white male than older voters.  If it's the same old story with young voters not making the effort, the polls on Obama are going to look pretty lame.  Fine with me.  Better chance for Edwards.
How do the candidates plan to help the middle class WHEN THEY HAVEN'T HELPED THE LOWER CLASS.  COLA raises were puny.  Have any of these candidates been in a grocery store lately?  Paid for gas? Change the limits on food stamps for people on social security
and social security disability.  The limits NEED to be raised. Stop keeping these people in a class where they need to so much money for groceries that they can't afford other necessities. HELP THE LOWER CLASS FIRST !!!  REVAMP THESE SYSTEMS!!!  
Sierra & Denise,
You folks can chant and cheer all you want, but the bottom line and true fact of the matter - Obama will never win in the south.  You know it and so do I (having lived here my entire life).  Unless you want another 4 years of repugnant control you need to ask those Biden, Dodd, Richardson, & Kunich folks to vote for Edwards.
I want to congratulate the nasty Obama supporters who have managed to bamboozle the main stream media into believing that this 2 bit Charley Nobody with a resume as thin as Ally McBeal is presidential timber. I will be voting for any Repub in the fall.  The Obama-loving media (with MSNBC right up there in first place) has done it again.  Good job Matthews, Schuster, Scarborough, Carlson--you brought down this "haughty woman" and put her in her place.  You have also deprieved this country of a potential great president.  And you've turned me (after 37 years voting Democrat) into a Republican.
Dean, Waterbury, CT (Sent Thursday, January 03, 2008 9:55 AM)
----------------------------------------------------
Don't blame Obama for your change of heart.  Spoken like a typical Clintonista:  Blame others for one's own shortcomings.
".....I want to congratulate the nasty Obama supporters who have managed to bamboozle the main stream media into believing that this 2 bit Charley Nobody with a resume as thin as Ally McBeal is presidential timber. I will be voting for any Repub in the fall.  The Obama-loving media (with MSNBC right up there in first place) has done it again.  Good job Matthews, Schuster, Scarborough, Carlson--you brought down this "haughty woman" and put her in her place.  You have also deprived this country of a potential great president.  And you've turned me (after 37 years voting Democrat) into a Republican......"
Dean, Waterbury, CT (Sent Thursday, January 03, 2008 9:55 AM)

See, I told you so, and there are many. many others too.
It's Hillary or Bust as far as I'm concerned. Obama gets the nomination and I vote for ANY Republican that runs against him.
...and I do mean ANY Republican that runs against him.
By the way.....Zogby had Kerry winning the election in 2004.
Better be careful before you hang your hat on that poll.
Please, let's keep the discussion civil.  All we're doing is deciding which of the Democrats will be the next President.  The GOP side is only to determine who their candidate is, and whether they get 36% or 40% of the vote in the national election depends on who runs for the D's.
anythiing less than a 7 point win is a loss for barack.
Union Baby - You folks can chant and cheer all you want, but the bottom line and true fact of the matter - Obama will never win in the south.


Of course, no Democrat, let alone Obama, has done well in the south in the last 40 years for the general election.
If Obama does not win by at least 5-6 points as predicted in the polls, it does not look good.

Obama HAS to win and win big for it to be a win.

Expectations are high that he will crush his opponents by 5-6 points.  He better or it looks bad!
The neo-conned owned media is potraying obama as the good guy for the democratic nominee so he can make hillay and edwards look bad the real the only defeat for the republicans remember the us is not ready for a black president who is inexpeireiced  neverless to say american is not ready for a woman president we need an expericened white man for the sake of the us
Jees, Elmer.  That is frightening.  Where's your christian love and compassion.  If your biggest concerns are imprisoning more innocent people and wrestling the "Happy Holiday" season from people who don't want to shove their religious views down your throat, then you need to grow up.  Which is suprising, wiith a name like Elmer, I would figure you to be quite old indeed.  Learn to share our country, our flag and our party with other people.  take care nutcase.
David Anders from Pharr, TX re: Huckabee on Leno
"HE GOT STANDING OVATION FROM EVERY ONE, AND THIS IS LIBERAL CALIFORNIA---WATCH OUT HERE COMES ANOTHER REGAN STORY"  
I'd like to make three points concerning your post, David:  1. It's Reagan, not Regan. I hated the guy but at least I can spell his name.  2. Californians don't get into the "free" studio audiences at nationally televised TV shows, those are pretty much all tourists from flyover states like yours, David, so their reaction to Huckabee is no indication of Huckabee doing well out here, trust me. C. QUIT YELLING AT US! LEARN TO SPELL, AND LEARN TO PUNCTUATE. DID YOU EVEN FINISH ELEMENTARY SCHOOL, YOU NEANDERTHAL?
Why is it that we can always tell when a religious bigot is writing comments?  My Catholic roots have had it up to here!  You "EVANGELICALS" have plenty of nerve thinking YOU are God's chosen people - Your arrogance is making the rest of the nation SICK.  Try using your OWN brain instead of your pastors to decide a candidate - or this will be the last time your state has the lead on caucuses.
The only big news that will come out of Iowa tonight is that several of the lower end candidates will end their campaigns.  The winners tonight will be anyone who polls first and second, because this year is very different from years past, when we have the big virtual national primary day in February. Also, the Iowa Caucus method is so draconian, its not fair.
MEMO TO BARACK OBAMA: What the media creates, it can also destroy. The media will push you off your pedestal as surely as it placed you there to begin with.
I find the idea that if the candidate one supports is not viable, that candidate then tells his supporters who their second choice should be.  Isn't that a bit presumptious of a candidate to do that?  My vote is just that, MY VOTE.  I don't think I want anyone, even a candidate that I have supported, telling me how to exercise that right. I don't get the reasoning behind that.
Dot, Illinois (Sent Thursday, January 03, 2008 11:12 AM)

It's a recommendation, usually one that benefits the candidate you are supporting.  It's not binding, however, and people are free to switch to whichever candidate they choose.  
Keep in mind that David Anders Pharr, TX said in a  post yesterday that he is from ARKANSAS, he's not a Texan.  Enough said!


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