ABOUT FIRST READ

First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



First thoughts: Debate double-header

Posted: Saturday, January 05, 2008 10:48 AM by Domenico Montanaro
Filed Under:

From Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, and Domenico Montanaro
MANCHESTER, NH -- Just when you thought there wouldn't be more debates this cycle, ABC/WMUR/Facebook host back-to-back Republican and Democratic ones here tonight. The GOP debate (featuring Giuliani, Huckabee, McCain, Romney, and Thompson) begins at 7:00 pm ET and ends at 8:30 pm ET, and it's followed immediately by the Dem one (Clinton, Edwards, Obama, and Richardson) that goes until 10:15 pm ET. They’re both moderated by ABC’s Charlie Gibson, with additional questions coming from WMUR’s Scott Spradling. The last time the Democrats and Republicans debated was more than three weeks ago, when they took part in those Des Moines Register snooze-fests. Because the DMR moderator didn't bother asking questions on matters in which the candidates actually disagreed, tonight's debate provides the opportunity to cover nearly two months worth of issues.

*** What to watch for: On the Democratic side, where does Hillary go after Obama? (On health care? The netroots' charge that he sometimes uses GOP talking points? Rezko?) Or does Edwards -- like he did in Philly -- actually do the dirty work on the front-runner? (On past lobbyist money? Trade?) On the GOP side, just how heated will McCain vs. Romney be? These guys don't like each other. Neither do Romney and Huck. And where are't thou, Rudy? Can he break through after being outside the story for the past month? Given the worries the Clinton folks apparently have with how voters may respond to negativity, we're guessing the Dem side could be tamer than the GOP debate where -- in the words of Huckabee's campaign chair Ed Rollins -- "nobody likes Romney." Forget Clinton, there's no candidate with more on the line today than Romney. He hasn't had a great debate performance yet, and he's never needed one more than now.

*** Where have all the negative ads gone? By the way, we didn't see one negative ad this morning on the local news. Not one from an outside group, nothing... In fact, Romney -- who had no problem with running contrast ads heading into the caucuses -- is now up with a new TV ad that emphasizes strength, growth, and prosperity. Are campaigns petrified to go negative with such a short time between now and Tuesday?



*** Did you know that Wyoming was awarding delegates today? It should be a big day for Romney because he will be the first candidate on either side to win actual convention delegates. The Wyoming GOP is holding its "conventions" (we assume they are like caucuses), which will award delegates today; Only Romney's spent real money here and the state has a 14% Mormon population so he had the advantage going in.

*** Dodd's farewell: Also today, Dodd -- who dropped out of the Dem race on Thursday night -- holds a press conference at noon in Connecticut to thank his family, friends, and supporters. We weren't able to write much yesterday about Dodd's and Biden's departures (mainly because there was too much else going on), but it's important to say this about both men: Their campaigns did nothing to blemish the respect and stature they hold. And that's something that can't always be said of presidential candidates. One other thing: If Obama goes on to win the Democratic nomination, he can in part thank Dodd. Without him jumping into the discussion on driver's licenses for illegal immigrants, the Philly debate would not have turned into the story it eventually became.

*** Just askin's: After the Des Moines Register invited him to its debate, did a single soul see Alan Keyes in Iowa last week? We sure didn't.... Also, where is Duncan Hunter? Is he still an official candidate? Now that he's not getting debate invites, does that end his bid? A Hunter spokesman emails First Read that Hunter has been campaigning non-stop in New Hampshire since December 28, and that he was in Wyoming earlier; his wife has been there since January 1.

*** On the trail: Elsewhere today, Clinton has already campaigned in Penacook and then heads to Durham; Edwards was in Portsmouth and goes to Concord and Lebanon; Giuliani hits a house party in Litchfield; Huckabee holds a “Huck & Chuck” rally in Londonderry with Chuck Norris; McCain attends a town hall in Peterborough; Obama, as of this writing, is having a rally in Nashua; Richardson was in in Hooksett and Concord; and Romney has already been to Derry and later visits Hampstead and Bedford.

Countdown to New Hampshire: 3 days
Countdown to Michigan: 10 days
Countdown to Nevada and SC GOP primary: 14 days
Countdown to SC Dem primary: 21 days
Countdown to Florida: 24 days
Countdown to Tsunami Tuesday: 31 days
Countdown to Election Day 2008: 304 days
Countdown to Inauguration Day 2009: 381 days

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Comments

I wish ABC wouldn't be stupid in excluding Dennis Kucinich and Mike Gravel from the Democratic debate. Who do they think they are? If they are going to have a debate they should at least give everyone a fair shot. Now we have to watch as the "top" candidates, aka the candidates that the big media supports, talk about "change" that they will never follow through with. If the media would give everyone a fair shot more people would know people like Dennis Kucinich and Mike Gravel.

Look at what Fox News is doing excluding Ron Paul, the only true Republican, shame on them. All they care about is supporting the rest of the Republican field which is full of hypocrites.

My biggest problem is that no one cares. Why aren't people boycotting and pointing out the injustices of the mass media. They are bias and controlling the outcome of the elections. Wake up people, think for yourself.
I keep hearing this perplexing though I believe honest question from stunned Clinton supporters. If Obama's policy positions are pretty similar to Clinton's, what's the change?

Can't speak for anyone else, but its not a wonkish difference I'm looking for. And those who have been on this message board since last winter might recognize some of what I'm about to say.

I think the partisan trench wars are childish. They're disruptive to effective governance and simply immature. If the old names can't be more mature, I'll look for a new name - someone I believe will work toward consensus when possible, will be more open and honest and will project an impression of authenticity.

I suspect this is what other recognize, too. We're looking at Obama because he seems to recognize Republicans aren't evil and independents aren't indecisive flakes. Ironically this time I seem to be joining many others in looking to the younger generation to overcome the childish behavior of the older one.

Sorry if that's too simple, but I think that's it.
Paul Miller, Woodbridge, VA (Sent Saturday, January 05, 2008 12:03 PM)


Paul, action is bigger than talk and speeches. Look at Obama's voting records. He has voted way on the left and liberal and in 99% of those Republicans voted in the opposite direction.

It is just that Obama saw an opportunity to say he will work with everyone because he saw no one was talking about it. I can say the same but my past actions will prove who i really am. And if my "national" past is very small, I can escape that scrutiny by saying since I have no past, I am fresh and I am the change you need.

Just because someone has been in "national" scene for years, doesnt mean they are useless. Only new people think like that. As they say - Ignorance is Bliss!

I am not saying you are ignorant so please dont take it in a negative manner.
I keep hearing this perplexing though I believe honest question from stunned Clinton supporters. If Obama's policy positions are pretty similar to Clinton's, what's the change?

Can't speak for anyone else, but its not a wonkish difference I'm looking for. And those who have been on this message board since last winter might recognize some of what I'm about to say.

I think the partisan trench wars are childish. They're disruptive to effective governance and simply immature. If the old names can't be more mature, I'll look for a new name - someone I believe will work toward consensus when possible, will be more open and honest and will project an impression of authenticity.

I suspect this is what other recognize, too. We're looking at Obama because he seems to recognize Republicans aren't evil and independents aren't indecisive flakes. Ironically this time I seem to be joining many others in looking to the younger generation to overcome the childish behavior of the older one.

Sorry if that's too simple, but I think that's it.
Paul Miller, Woodbridge, VA (Sent Saturday, January 05, 2008 12:03 PM)


Paul, action is bigger than talk and speeches. Look at Obama's voting records. He has voted way on the left and liberal and in 99% of those Republicans voted in the opposite direction.

It is just that Obama saw an opportunity to say he will work with everyone because he saw no one was talking about it. I can say the same but my past actions will prove who i really am. And if my "national" past is very small, I can escape that scrutiny by saying since I have no past, I am fresh and I am the change you need.

Just because someone has been in "national" scene for years, doesnt mean they are useless. Only new people think like that. As they say - Ignorance is Bliss!

I am not saying you are ignorant so please dont take it in a negative manner.
Paul:

I think my concern is that the Democrats not become so divided during the primary process that we fail to come together behind the enventual nominee in the general Election.  With Gov. Huckabee leading the Rep field right now, I think we Democrats really need to stick together!
Couldn't agree more about John Alexander's 1/5/08 comment regarding the Media's non-coverage of the Biden, Dodd and Richardson campaigns. These guys more than held their own in all of the debates, but the Media treated them as they were invisible. They showed a real grasp of the issues and gave real answers in a concise fashion with no hemming or hawing. I don't trust Hillary. I think Obama's a good man, but too green, and would have loved to see him in the VP slot behind Biden or Dodd. Russert, Matthews & Olbermann, why were you all MIA on this aspect of your coverage to date? A boat truly missed to the detriment of all Americans!
Well, now Clinton supporters have no morals according to David from Pharr, Tx. But what else can we expect from a man and especially one from Texas.Men have beat her up and the only reason is she is a SMART WOMEN and men don't like her because she is smart and definitely smarter than most men. Maybe they could learn something from her but you have to have a brain to learn something.
I'm a 56 year-old white woman from the suburbs and a life-long Democrat. I SUPPORT OBAMA!! I could NEVER vote for Hillary and Bill!
We need a fresh start - not a rerun of the 1990s!

GO OBAMA!!!
to the dummy who wrote the article.  You wold think you would inform the public of all participating candidates.  You failed to mention Ron Paul.  If you are going to be a journalist try to at least gather the minimum amount of info necessary to be taken seriously.  Ron Paul is running and you are a poor reporter.
I'm tired of seeing the same old guy in the white house. I want REAL change.

OBAMA '08
Obama represent the kind of change the Democratic party fought 40 years to get. The very thing that drew the Clintons to politic so many years ago. To have a man judged based on the content of his charachter not the color of his skin.

Mayor Bloomgerg is telling his friends that if Obama wins he will not run. The reason, he does not want to been seen as retarding progress, and keeping the first African-American from becoming president.

This is what the Clintons risk doing, by fighting against a core principle of the Democratic party they appear petty an power hungry. How can they fight against the very thing they claim to have fought 40 years for, to have a black man afforded the opportunity to seek the presidency of the United States?

The more they fight against the Obama movement, the more they appear like the same people who told Dr. King to slow down, who told Dr. King that America was not ready for the type of equality he sought. THe very people who told Dr. King to wait till next time. They appear to be on the wrong side if history, to not understand the 'fierce urgency of now' A terrible place for their legacy to end.

The Clintons may be better off dropping out sooner rather than later, and get behind the movement. Otherwise even if they win the nomination they will end up doing a disservice to the very movement tht drew them to politics in the first place.
Hillycrats - maybe you should actually address the issues and not be soooo stupid

Huey Lee -- Great the you think "Hilary Rocks". Too bad you don't know how she spells her name

I for one will watch the debates and hope that the candidates actually get asked some REAL questions about what they really want to change and how they are REALLY going to do it, Seems to me, as always, it is up to the Moderator to ask those questions and "flush out" the answers to the questions
and for the debaters to pay attention and not mudsling. We want a change not the same old political babble.

I'm tired of projection and sensationalism. This country is teetering on a precipice - both foreign and domestic.

Lets address the issues and try for solutions while understanding they won't happen overnight.

We're damned close to a recession and I believe that it is inevitable. Health care is in a pathetic state. We are still in Iraq -- why??? and how do we get out. And then how do we win back the respect of the rest of the world after such arrogant and deceitful behavior?

Let's start with those issues. That should fill up all the debate time and more.


It's time to get rid of the political elite of the U.S. they have failed us time and again. Let's stop letting multi-millionaires and their buddies run the country.
Back to back substantive debates should be very revealing.  

May the best candidate for president be recognized - not the crowd pleaser/inciter or media money maker. One candidate has had a FREE MEDIA PASS - no vetting -just adulation.

The Republicans will benefit from the frenzy!

Response to Hillycrats...wow....with comments like these...no wonder Hillary came in third...Americans are tired of negative attacks and lies...you need to find a better message...the American people are not fool enough to believe obvious lies about Barack Obama...one of the most decent, honest leaders we have seen in a long time........
Well, I see the true people have come out.  True racists are showing their true colors.  Just come out and say it, you don't like Barack Obama because he is black.  At least be truthful instead of coming up with all of this nonsense.
Denise Taylor, Atlanta, Georgia (Sent Saturday, January 05, 2008 1:56 PM)

Denise, there are some left, but by far, they are in a very very slim minority.If you will read most post, Most of them disagree with that kinda post which bring race into it.America is a better Country than that. I have Faith in that, so just overlook them. When there racist comments are Put to bed by Everyone, they just fade into Cyberland.
I was a first time Cacus goer in Iowa and I am not a spring chicken to say the least, close to 50 now, so it did not all boil down to the younger voters, there are many elders backing him.
Don't you people realize that men have been President since the beginning and they are alike.  The only real one for change has to be a woman!  Hillary, go girl.  Love, Suzi Antonucci
Here are a few excerpts from Barack Hussein Obama's Inauguration speech on 1-20-2009, My fellow Americans you forgot The CIA's description of "Sleeper Cells" and guess what you've all been fooled, I'am one of Osama Bin-Laden's Lieutenants and you idiots have elected me as your president. Therefore your property and life savings and sovernty is now the Worlds. Sorry, you should of paid better attention". You should of voted for Edwards or Hillary.

---------------------------------------------

Hillarycrats, are you serious?!?  This shows that Clinton supporters are just as ignorant and prejudiced as the right wingers they claim to be against. Hilliary is just another old New Democrat, like her husband. New Democrat = Republican in a blue suit

Read a book, Hillarycrats. Maybe Obama's? That way you'll actually know something about the wonderful person you are talking trash about.
Since Obama will wrap up the nomination, who should he pick for his running mate?

My vote:  Jim Webb.

Moderate Dem tough guy is what we need to balance out Barack's cheerful, inclusive demeanor.
"Talking heads" are a dime a dozen.  Obama is lacking in experience and leadership.  We need to consider where we'll be in a year with the Mid East crisis with Obama at the helm.....a dangerous scenario.  First time voters are taken with his "orative" style.  Takes more substance than this to guide this country to where it needs to be...
Let's set the record straight. Hillary Rocks ! Rock on Hillary ! hillaryclinton.com
Don't you people realize that men have been President since the beginning and they are alike.  The only real one for change has to be a woman!  Hillary, go girl.  Love, Suzi Antonucci
And teddi from CT, Obama a closet conservative gay-hater?!?!?!?! Have you ever been to Chicago? Do you know anything about what he has done? Hillary is the conservative one, not our man Obama. At least he's not in the pocket of the big money lobbyists.

This idiotic trash-talking has to stop. the intelligent conversations have to begin. Please, children, grow up.
I'm one of those "older voters" and I vividly remember another time when the idea of "change" was pushed very hard. The result was Jimmy Carter... not a bad guy, but not exactly the best leader this country has ever known. Unfortunately, Mr. Obama reminds me a lot of Mr. Carter. I hope I'm wrong, because I believe he'll be the next POTUS, unless by some miracle Mr. McCain manages some magic in NH.
Go Huckabee!!!! We will get results for our nation to get on the right path.
If in fact the campaigns are not doing negative advertising in the run up to New Hampshire, then that is a good thing.  Negative politics has gotten us to this point.  And of course the Clinton machine will hit Obama hard, hopefully we will see Hillary's dark side which will help Obama.
What happened to Chuck Todd who said right before Iowa that if Hillary came in third - even a close third - it would be DEVASTATING for her? He hasn't said that at all since Thursday night, when she lost to Obama by NINE POINTS and actually DID come in third!

Now he's saying if OBAMA doesn't WIN NH, it is OVER for HIM!!

Huh?? Obama won Iowa, and if Hillary wins NH, why would that NEGATE OBAMA'S WIN IN IOWA?? Seems to me they would be TIED at that point - just as Bush and McCain were in 2000, when Bush won Iowa and McCain won NH. The contest would then move on to South Carolina, Nevada, etc.

Also, the latest poll by "Rasmussen" that is the only one taken AFTER IOWA shows Obama with a 10 point lead over Hillary - 37% to 27%. So, hopefully, Chuck Todd's unfair set-up won't materialize.
Does anyone ever wonder why the corporate republican media is gladly covering the Obama campaign with positive press more than Clinton's and Edwards' campaign?? Could it be that the Republicans want Obama to win the Dem nomination? What is Obama's experience? How come he sounds like Edwards in 2004? In my opinion, I feel that a vote for Obama  makes it one vote easier for the republican party to win in Nov 08. I am glad because I want Huckabee to win! Democrats believe everything they see on Fox news and MSNBC:)
You DO know that Ron Paul will be in the debate as well, don't you?  I assume your ommission is an oversight and not deliberate like Foxnews is doing tomorrow.
Why is Ron Paul not invited? He had double the votes of Rudy the democrat and yet Rudy (NWO's favorite son) is in and Ron is out? Blah...fair elections my foot.
So disappointed that more airtime was not given to Dodd and Biden.  They are also solid Americans and have impressive service to the country histories.

I hope this continues for us and for them.

To all the contenders - thank you for this huge gift to Americans to even be out there given the media preponderance of destroying the 'individual' and the 'best of us' - instead of realizing what our country could  realize.
Am I the only person who finds it insulting that folks the media are shocked that white people would vote for Obama? As for Iowa being "overwhelmingly white," so are most states. Whites are the majority; hence the term "minority" for those of other ethnic backgrounds. It says something about the bias that those on the coasts have about the rest of us; do they think we're all home going to white supremacist meetings? Give us a little more credit. Some of us actually know and like black people--and no, I don't just mean Oprah!
The more thnigs change the more they end up staying the same.  I am aware that is forty years removed from the conventional memory in respect to politics, however some of you need to dig through the archive and read up on the 1968 democratic nomination and the struggles and success of Eugene McCarthy.  Igniting an apathetic but enthusiastic college student base.  (Does this sound similar?)  Humphrey, the defacto candidate after the assination of RFK was the nominee
Madam President.  Now doesn't that sound great! Clinton for  President! AGAIN!! That's right.
Madam President.  Now doesn't that sound great! Clinton for  President! AGAIN!! That's right.
Amen about NBC's lame coverage of the Iowa Caucus results.  ALL of the analysis was Obama/Clinton...Edwards barely rated a mention. It is obscene.  They are so busy trying to handicap the race, they can't even stop to acknowledge the actual RESULTS.  Yes, everybody loves Obama right now and they are in love with the word "change" whatever the hell that means.  It reminds me of the Republican morons who voted for "family values" in 2000.  Obama does not have a trademark on "change" and I don't even know what he will do day one in office because it is all platitudes and soaring rhetoric.  At least Edwards is specific about exactly what kind of change he is talking about.  It would be really nice if NBC news would start acting like an actual journalistic enterprise instead of a sideline cheerleading squad.
Want to bet that EVERY Democrat who calls for universal health care wants to insist that abortion be paid for--at taxpayer expense? BTW, I'm a Democrat...you know, one of the pro-life ones that is only paid lip service every four years. Get some character, or you won't get my vote, Democrat or Republican!
I am so tired of this entire political candidate bashing.  

First, I have yet to figure out why people love to bash the candidates, particularly Hillary. What has she done to deserve this pray tell?  She is a politician just like all of the rest. None are above reproach and none without baggage.

Next I have a problem with Obama and those trying to support him because he is black. Or playing the race card with Obama and saying people are against him because he is black. Excuse me, but the last I knew he was half white, raised by a white mother and white grandparents. Yet HE is the one playing the race card by emphasizing his "blackness" so he can have people like Oprah onstage with him. Strange that he rarely ever gives credit to those who raised him.  Evidently not politically expedient.

I will vote for the democrat, no matter who gets the nomination. There is not a candidate on the republican side deserving of my vote.

Um...Where's Ron Paul in the Republican debates?? Didn't he more than double Giuliani in Iowa?
As an Independent, I'm surprised that the Democrats don't realize that John Edwards is their only electable candidate.  There are simply too many voters who would vote Repulican before they would vote for Hillary or Obama.  Their negatives in the polls are as large as their positives.  I'm indeed ready for a change, but not to either of those two.  Unless the Democrats nominate Edwards, they will elect another Republican.
Based on what? The thousands of people coming to see him, the almost unheard of enthusiasm he's generating?
.. and the Fact he won Iowa.


You people are as bad as any Republican I've ever seen. Call yourselves progressives but you're just as backwards as the rest. For all the naysaying I've read about Obama for months and about how "horrible" he'll do, you've been wrong EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Get over it, the guy may not win, but he sure as hell is performing far better than responders on this blog would have you believe. To read this blog, you'd thing Edwards is the greatest thing since slice bread but to most of the Democratic party he is an also ran (yet again). Hillary is still riding on the shoulders of her husband and when the fog clears there sits Obama. The guy everyone here wishes so much ill fortune on yet somehow manages to still be a top dog in the campaign.

Try opening your eyes and realizing that most folks in the US don't think like you, and in this case it appears that the general population is far more willing to be "progressive" on this than most people here.


Obama will be our next Prez......Thank Gawd
Supporters of Obama claim he is an agent of change. Clinton backers boast that she is more experienced. The  populist supporters of Edwards say he will be the middle class guardian.

There is one candidate who voices an opinion that is not always matching the mainstream of his party. That same candidate has experience in many areas and knows the ways of Washington DC. This candidate is a straight talker and not a flashy personality with $400 haircuts. Additionally, this candidate has character that has been tested by the most rigorous and horrendous conditions.

John McCain is the finest of the fields in either party. His honesty, character, experience in life and forthrightness are far superior to all the others, Democrats or Republicans. Americans should see fit to send this outstanding man, filled with mature wisdom and unique personal experience to the White House.
Please spare all of us from another debate.  What purpose is served by allowing sound bytes to permeate the MSM channels?  Try listening to Kucinich or Ron Paul.  They make sense.  Neither is racist nor "wear your Christianity on your sleeve."
To: "Hillycrats of America"

Your comments say more about the Hillary campaign than most of us would like it to.  Talk about vile character assassination!  May you and yours get your 'comeupance' on Tuesday!

As for Teddi in Norwalk -- please DO stay home on election day.  You clearly have no understanding of the American political process.
It looks like the scale is tilting towards the tall dark and handsome guy on the liberal side with the big ears and it could possibly go to the rich Morman guy or the old mean looking ex POW on the Red side. The Arkie Bible thumper from down in the Ozarks could pull it off for the Christians.
It also appears that its the wrong time of the month for the ex-first lady, you can tell she is having "Hot Flashes". She is too old for PMS.

May The Best BS-er of them all WIN! and then may the losers hopefully fade away out of our site forever.
Uh, M. Davis of New Hampshire, Joe Biden is the Chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, NOT Obama.  How well informed is that?
OBAMA IS NOT EXPERIENCED! I DON'T WANT A MAN OR WOMEN THAT HAS NO KNOWLEDGE ON HOW OR WHAT IT TAKES TO RUN A COUNTRY! I DON'T WANT TO LIKE MY PRESIDENT I WANT THEM TO DO THERE JOB! GROW UP AMERICA THIS IS NOT HIGH SCHOOL THIS IS OUR COUNTRY! HILLARY 08!
Seriously - McCain and Thompson tied at 13%, Ron Paul at 10% and he doesn't get invited to talk in NH?  Doesn't that seem a bit strange?  Not that they ever give him a chance to speak even when he is invited, but even Richardson made the cut.  Conspiracy theorists unite!
The only reason these guys are now ganging up on Obama is because he won unexpectedly in Iowa, and he could potentially be the first black President of America, come on guys get over the race card and learn to unite this is the 21st century for crying out loud...
Couldn't agree more about John Alexander's 1/5/08 comment regarding the Media's non-coverage of the Biden, Dodd and Richardson campaigns. These guys more than held their own in all of the debates, but the Media treated them as they were invisible. They showed a real grasp of the issues and gave real answers in a concise fashion with no hemming or hawing.

Michael:

I agree with you.  I think the media thought the Senator Clinton/Senator Obama back and forth was more appealing as a news story, so those candidates who remained focused on the issues were considered to be unexciting and therefore, not worthy of coverage.
I am really disappointed in the election coverage so far.


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