ABOUT FIRST READ

First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



First thoughts: Where's the beef?

Posted: Monday, January 07, 2008 9:22 AM by Domenico Montanaro
Filed Under:

From Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, and Domenico Montanaro
MANCHESTER, N.H. -- The new argument the Clinton camp is making about Obama is “Talk vs. Action.” It's a where's-the-beef-like mantra, circa 1984 in the race between Mondale and Hart. That said, this is what's going to make it tough to stop Obama if he wins in New Hampshire: If there's one thing that Obama is good at on the campaign trail, it's taking the attacks of his opponents and making light of them on the campaign trail, NBC/NJ’s Aswini Anburajan notes. Obama has never shied away from addressing attacks in his town halls, by doing so he attempts to reown the issue and recast the attacks in his favor. "They're saying one more thing that we're hearing lately, I mean we're hearing a lot of stuff lately, you know. The dump trucks keep getting backed up 'beep beep beep beep' I'm going with everything all at once,” Obama said last night. Still, Obama is going to have to respond to the empty rhetoric charge. We've sensed that a lot of reporters (even the ones taken with his tone) believe he hasn't been very specific. Will he drown us all in white papers?

*** The soft sell: Besides challenging the beef behind Obama's rhetoric, the campaign also is trying its best to soften Clinton up. She gave an interview to Access Hollywood, in which she did a girl talk of sorts. Among the things one learns: On a Saturday night when she has some free time, she likes to do some "kind of cleaning activity. I find cleaning closets and drawers to be extremely gratifying because you know there is a beginning, a middle and an end. Unlike a lot of what I do which seems to be much more long term." In the interview, Clinton also admits to being a "Dancing with the Stars" viewer (but only because her mother loves it). Meanwhile, Bill Clinton seemed to express frustration last night at the need to re-tool his wife's image. Per NBC/NJ's Mike Memoli, Clinton said: “We can’t be a new story, I’m sorry. I can’t make her younger, taller, male.”

*** Skipping South Carolina? Meanwhile, this admission is pretty big news: “We’re going to lose South Carolina,” a Clinton adviser told the Politico. So could this mean Clinton sort of skips South Carolina? It's something the chattering class is talking about: Should she or shouldn't she? Is the state unwinnable? Then again, does the Clinton campaign want to wage a national campaign that allows Obama to ride national momentum and be able to give his stump speech in 20-plus states? Or do they attempt to pin Obama down in one state, hoping he makes a mistake and let him potentially struggle straddling the black-white divide in the state? As for Nevada, the Clinton campaign has to be happy that the culinary union hasn't endorsed yet. There had been all sorts of rumors that the powerful Nevada union would endorse the winner of Iowa (if that winner were either Edwards or Clinton). Is it now waiting for New Hampshire?

*** The GOP’s “Change vs. Experience”: Republican Party primary voters have a decision to make: Do they nominate someone who can speak to change or someone who constrasts well on the issue of experience? That seemed to divide last night’s debate. Romney and Huckabee definitively were on the side of change while McCain, Thompson, and Giuliani were on the side of experience (though all the experience guys tried to prove a little bit of change). It had the feel of a debate that was designed to see who could best face Obama without really mentioning his name since it appears Obama has proven to the media, at least, that "change" is the buzz word of 2008.

*** Call it a draw: Since we're in New Hampshire, the debate really was about who did better: McCain or Romney. And on that score, it seemed like a draw, with possibly a slight edge to McCain -- only because of the various assists he received from the other candidates and from Fox News. Huckabee and Thompson both showed their comfort level assisting McCain by attacking Romney regularly. Everyone has their motive: Huckabee needs Romney out of the way in order to get into a one-on-one with McCain in South Carolina (and maybe Michigan); for Thompson, it may simply be about, well, hating Romney. Given the circumstances, Romney had a better night than Saturday; this isn't a guy who's going to be giving up easily. Huckabee, meanwhile, acts more like a front-runner than anyone on that stage. It's odd; he'll finish third (or even fourth) in New Hampshire and yet he's the most comfortable talking about, well, anything. As for Giuliani, he was much better and a bit more involved but being seated on the side was a symbol the campaign shouldn't be happy about right now.

*** Bloomberg goes to Oklahoma: Outside of the battle for New Hampshire, the other big news today is that college football game tonight between LSU and Ohio State -- and that meeting in Oklahoma of Dem and GOP centrists, which includes Mike Bloomberg. But how much energy will get drained out of that meeting now that two of the least polarizing candidates for the middle  -- Obama and McCain -- are leading in New Hampshire? Clinton vs. Romney was the perfect result for this group, but now it seems they struggle to find the opening if it's McCain and Obama. Plus, we're just asking: Does Bloomberg want to run and be known as the guy who stopped the first African-American president?

*** On the trail: Clinton campaigns in Portsmouth, Dover, Salem, and Manchester (where she appears with Bill Clinton); Edwards continues on his 36-hour tour across the state; Giuliani stops in Nashua, Hudson, Merrimack, and Derry; Huck & Chuck visit Mason, Concord, and Rochester; McCain makes seven stops in the Granite State; Obama already held a rally in Claremont and then goes to Lebanon and Rochester; Richardson has a whopping nine events; and Romney is in (among other places) Nashua, Derry, Salem, and Manchester (where he meets with volunteers at his headquarters).

Countdown to New Hampshire: 1 day
Countdown to Michigan: 8 days
Countdown to Nevada and SC GOP primary: 12 days
Countdown to SC Dem primary: 19 days
Countdown to Florida: 22 days
Countdown to Tsunami Tuesday: 29 days
Countdown to Election Day 2008: 302 days
Countdown to Inauguration Day 2009: 379 days

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Comments

Who in the hell listens to faux news???????  The spew channel of this administration, come on let's get real.  Change is coming.

Terry, Disabled Vet, Des Moines, IA (Sent Monday, January 07, 2008 10:45 AM)

I guess your post shows the reason why Hillary will be pulling out of the race shortly huh Terry?

She kind of gave in when she sent one of her senior team members to be interviewed on Sean Hannitty's radio show the other day.  Almost flipped my car over when I heard that one....
Keith Wilkerson, Stamford Ct. wrote:

"Okay so, I'm sure you wouldn't mind telling us what that new approach is. "

You know Keith, if the policies that Senator Obama has proposed and talked about until his voice is giving out have not swayed you, I doubt anything I can say will either.

I wish you well in your search, and hope that you will eventually come the conclusion that I did - Senator Obama is the best choice to be the next President of the United States.

I'm afraid I don't understand what exactly Obama's message is now, or what it is that he's going to change. I think he should do some explaining.

John Walsh Purrysburg South Carolina (Sent Monday, January 07, 2008 10:49 AM)


Or John, maybe you should do some more reading. I suggest you visit www.barackobama.com, where everything is laid out for you. And if you don't like reading, simply go to YouTube and listen to any of his speeches!!
Mickey G., Tyler TX, I don't listen to NPR but hey, cable vs regular news channels ---go figure on that one, I do know one thing change is coming and for starters the dunce in chief will no longer be news and it is about dang time.
Wow Sierra, you mean Barrack Obama is going to stop Hillary from chasing skirts in The White House?
First you write, "How about ending the 'politics of personal destruction' ?"
Then you write, "How about ending skirt chasing in the White House ?"
Isn't your very angry response to George in Manchester aliken to the 'politics of personal destruction' ?
I think there are some good questions being asked here today.
What exactly is it, that Barrack Obama is going to change? He never says what it is.
Look I'm just trying to figure out who to vote for here, I haven't made my mind up yet.
Change sounds good to me.
But I gotta' know what change someone's planing to make.
So far Obama hasn't told anyone.
I will say this. His supporters on this board are very "motivated."
I just don't understand why they're so mad, and mean spirited towards people who ask questions.



Well, George Powell from Manchester, part of the change we'll see with Obama is already started. He is, in the course of this campaign, building a working majority for change. We're already seeing independents and moderate republicans shifting to his side, and as that wave gains momentum, he will build the political capital necessary to force bipartisan change. The thing is, if he can win the general with 60% support (which I think is doable if he's not up against McCain), no one can really stand in his way.

However, even without a landslide victory, Obama has shown himself capable at working against political odds to get things done in Illinois (death penalty reform, ethics reform, both in Republican-controlled legislatures against powerful lobbies).

As for specifics on what he'll change, here are a few, without getting into too much detail:

Health care: effort to emphasize preventive care, creating an affordable health care program through the government to compete with private insurance, other significant cost-cutting measures.

Iraq: Pull out 1 brigade per month until only one is left. This will allow the Iraqi government time to resolve things while also putting significant pressure on them to get their act together. With popular Iraqi opinion turning against al Qaeda and Barack's leadership and diplomacy, we can get out of Iraq in better standing than we had when he left Vietnam.

Taxes: Barack wants to roll back the Bush cuts for the wealthy and spread them back to working class families and senior citizens. He wants to cut all taxes for seniors earning $50,000 or less. He also wants to simplify the tax code so that Americans can file their own taxes in minutes.

Energy: Barack wants to institute a cap-and-trade policy under which carbon credits will be auctioned off to the highest bidders. The money raised will be used to fund alternative energy initiatives. He also wants to raise CAFE to 45 mpg (I forget the target date though).

Foreign policy: Barack wants to initiate a campaign of diplomacy around the world to help the world understand America's values better. He will also be agressive in redeploying our troops to fight al Qaeda and other terrorist groups bent on destroying our way of life.

Other changes: Barack will offer information online about every bill that comes to his desk prior to his signing it, in order to engage Americans in a discussion about how our country should be governed. He will issue an executive order on Day One banning members of his administration from lobbying it after they leave. He has already gotten a bill passed to set up a government website detailing all budget expenditures in order to allow Americans to see where their tax dollars go.

I could go into more detail but then my post would end up ungodly long and no one would read it. If you want more information, go to www.barackobama.com

Obama '08!
To all the skeptics who ask "where's the beef" behind the Obama calls for change:

Here's at least one and it's more important than you may give him credit for:  He has refused to take lobbyist money.  That in itself augers an earthquake-like change and is sending shockwaves to K Street in Washington.  

Now, on its own, that wouldn't matter.  Others (like McCain) have tried to be idealistic and build campaigns without lobbyist money.  However, nobody has ever succeeded.  NEVER in HISTORY has one candidate raised as much money from normal Americans (not lobbyists).  

First Read and the Mainstream media:  let's start talking about the money trail.  In reality, it's the MOST important difference between HRC and all the other candidates, so why aren't we hearing about it?
Lets see, Hillary likes cleaning closets, lmao, is that where she keeps the illegal campaign contributions, and the 2100 documents she does not want "found" till after the election?
As a further note, I would like to ask those Obama supporters here to please not respond so negatively to questions about Obama's substance. It's not these people's fault that the media refuses to report on anything but sound bytes. Try to include some detail about Obama's plans (even though the plans themselves are relatively similar to those offered by other Dems). Especially the little tidbits that the other candidates have NOT said, like the pledge to ban administration officials from lobbying the administration (which he will do one day one--it's an executive order, not a bill), or the plans he has to engage in discussion of the bills on his desk with the American people prior to signing them. These especially are the things that set him apart from the field and start to illustrate just how he will make the fundamental changes our government needs.

That said, don't lose the enthusiasm! Obama '08!
Why has the media not been talking about Michigan? Do their delegates not count? I cant remember if they like Flordia jumped the gun, but even so, dont we assume that at the convention they will be seated? And even if we dont assume that, wont the outcome mean something in terms of Obama momentum or Hillary comeback?
THATS RIGHT FOOD STAMPER JOHN FROM IOWA, ITS MY DUTY TO EXPOSE ALL THE FILTH OF THE DEMOCRATS, THE YELLOW BELLIES THAT DONT SERVE BUT CRITIZE, FDR PUT PEOPLE LIKE THAT IN PRISON IN WW2  WE NEED TO FOLLOW  WE RE TIRED OF YOU NON WORKING CREEPS TAKING OUR MONEY FOR WELFARE, AND WE RE READY TO KICK YOUR ASS
I'm afraid that everyone asking the question today "what does Obama mean by change" is right.
We really don't know what this guy is all about because he never says what he is going to change. He just says "change"
He really needs to explain himself, and we need to know who he is, and what he's all about.
The idea of change is always intrigueing.
But, before we go off on an adventure with another Jimmy Carter type, we need to be sure we're not making a mistake
Obama should say specifically what he's going to change, and how he is going to change it.
If he doesn't do that, then I'm afraid he's just another in a long line of charismatic speakers who captured the imagination of the youth in this country without any real substance or clear cut ideas.
I don't necessarily have anything against this guy. I just don't really know who he is, and I'm not sure America does either.
This is really getting sad !!  Has anybody noticed the old Clinton supporters are either gone or to ashamed to use their real names.....

She will not go away soon...but I believe this is not going to get better.  
So it abvious that Senator Barack Hussein Obama going to Win the NH primary, there is no question of that. But is all those Republicans who is going to vote for Barack Hussein to get him the win in NH also going to vote for him in the general election as well?

Apparently, lots of people. They are by far #1 in the cable ratings you know.

Now, just run off and listen to your NPR. And as far as my tax dollars being used to support it, you're welcome.

> Change is coming.

Indeed.
Mickey G., Tyler TX (Sent Monday, January 07, 2008 10:53 AM)
*****************************************************

Wrong!
MSNBC has beat Faux for the past couple months and going.
What's wrong with NPR? Too intelligent for you? Not enough truckers geeked out on meth calling in for you? Is it the lack of a fat Oxy addicted loudmouths giving you your opinion?  Maybe because they don't have some  conniving televangelist telling you how to screw in your own home?

Oh, for those that ask what Obam is going to change? Haven't you noticed the electoral process is changing already? Doubling the turnout for primary election is a good change, due in no small part to being inspirational to the electorate. That is evidence enough of change for me.....
I love Obama's message, but I just think he's in over his head.  The argument so far here on this board has been about what is he going to change.  I'm not sure either.  His policies are not that different than any other candidate's.  While his speeches are inspiring, his tone on the campaign trail is just the same as everyone else.  I'm also not sure he listens to anyone but himself.  He's been unwilling to engage people in discussions. He only talked at people in Iowa.  We already have someone in office who thinks he has all the answers.  We need to be careful.
I stand corrected, I was wrong.................. It seems we still have a large contingent in this country that are slack jawed, misinformed, backwater sheep that absorb and regurgitate the filth spewed from Fox(apparently they came in on top with news ratings).
Well, fox still blows!
> He says he won't fight with the republicans, but he > goes after Hillary for cooperating with them. (?)
> That's kind of contradictive, isn't it?

Those are excellent rebuttals. Unfortunately, Hillary doesn't seem as smart/shrewd as we were lead to believe and is not likely to make sharp counterpoints like these.

She is falling apart; unable to think on her feet and demonstrate command over a crisis situation. Her mettle is being tested and she is flailing.
I would like to see edwards and obama team up, edwards could fight to rid the government of corporate control, obama could negotiate with them, either way maybe a change for the better could start, I still don't think obama can win the general election, edwards can
Its simply an end to the childish part of the partisan trench wars. Republicans aren't evil. Independents aren't indecisive flakes. There are areas in which we can work toward consensus, in an atmosphere of political differences though mutual respect. That's it, in a nutshell. We want our leaders to stop acting like children......"
Paul Miller, Woodbridge, VA (Sent Monday, January 07, 2008 9:58 AM)

Paul, I didn't ask what's wrong with the political process, I asked how Obama is going to change it.
You see, Democrats like Hillary have tried to be Bi-Partisan, and have tried to cooperate with the right wing before.
But, when they did, people like Obama trashed them for doing it.
So what is Obama really saying? That the Republicans are going to roll over for him, and him alone?
Or, is he saying that he's going to give in to them?
Either way, we still don't know what "changes" Obama would bring because he never tells us.
Your response "sounds good," Paul.
But, it really doesn't answer the question.
Very specifically, what is Obama going to change?
I think we have a right to know.



George Powell, Manchester, NH (Sent Monday, January 07, 2008 10:30 AM)

____________________________________________________
George it would be amazing if Paul knew anything about changes Obama would be capable of making.  The guy just likes to stir the pot with innuendoes, we need specific facts Paul.  Got any?
The biggest and best change will be a Democrat in the WH. The only thing Obama can change for sure is 2 dimes and a nickle for a quarter!
It is dammed scary when a statesman like Biden is passed over for a fluke such as Obama. Madness!
Its simply an end to the childish part of the partisan trench wars. We want our leaders to stop acting like children......"
Paul Miller, Woodbridge, VA (Sent Monday, January 07, 2008 9:58 AM)

Paul, I didn't ask what's wrong with the political process, I asked how Obama is going to change it.
You see, Democrats like Hillary have tried to be Bi-Partisan, and have tried to cooperate with the right wing before.
But, when they did, people like Obama trashed them for doing it.
So what is Obama really saying? That the Republicans are going to roll over for him, and him alone?
Or, is he saying that he's going to give in to them?
Either way, we still don't know what "changes" Obama would bring because he never tells us.
Your response "sounds good," Paul.
But, it really doesn't answer the question.
Very specifically, what is Obama going to change?
I think we have a right to know.



George Powell, Manchester, NH (Sent Monday, January 07, 2008 10:30 AM)

____________________________________________________
George it would be amazing if Paul knew anything about changes Obama would be capable of making.  The guy just likes to stir the pot with innuendoes, we need specific facts Paul.  Got any?
The biggest and best change will be a Democrat in the WH. The only thing Obama can change for sure is 2 dimes and a nickle for a quarter!
It is dammed scary when a statesman like Biden is passed over for a fluke such as Obama. Madness!
Thanks Mickey G from Tyler TX, I appreciate that you pay your taxes, too bad many corporations don't, you could be paying less then.
Wheres the Beef? There will be less beef on peoples tables, prices are up on all foods, wonder what chinese beef tastes like. Gas up, feed up, bread more expensive, even Walmart uped prices.
Go Change, send Bushco home!
Go New Hampshire keep the ball rolling.
be forewarned hillary is beaten down sufficiently to turn loose some of the criminal elements of her seedy campaign staff, because if she can't win in a fair fight she will cheat, and she has a staff that can cheat with the best of em
In the land of beef, the Obamaburger is pure soy.

Hillary is a triple-decker of pure Angus.

The country will starve to death on the Obama diet.
*headdesk*
*headdesk*
*headdesk*
You people that think Obama is using the word "change" for the sake of using the word are full of it. Either you are too stupid to properly use the internet, can't remember his website, or need your ears cleaned out. He has repeatedly stated what he intends to change. He has lined up clear, well-defined areas of how he will change government, how he will govern, and what he plans to do that is radically different from the way they've been done for almost 20 years now. They're right there at his website. Now either go and read it, or remain brain-dead zombies following Hillary around. Either way, STFU. There are plenty of places to read up or see what Obama's message of "change" really means.
About the only thing left for Hillary to do is cry. She has nothing she can run on, her agenda has been coop-ed by a younger and more charismatic candidate. Her old ideas are all worn out. She has the personality of a temporary office clerk (no offense). The only thing left for her to do is turn on the tears. Either that, or maybe beg.
OMG!!



Republicans are saying that the Democrats are having a "popularity contest" to elect a president. After watching the rerun debates both Republican and Democrat, I have to wonder if they are right. These people who are so impressed with preaching and cadence, listening to someone who derides experience, and ability, to get things done.  Sound extraordinarily young, naive and down right silly.  For some reason (I don't know what it is) they seem to think, believe, or maybe want to believe, that it just don't matter who is the president of the country.  We are talking about the most Executive of executive jobs in America .  The only way I can explain or justify this is, people mostly Democrats just don't think that it matters... That, electing a president is lot like picking a high school, home coming king, it's all about being popular and acting cool.  We have been there and done that, Dubya, was that result.



CHANGE WHAT?  It sounds so superficially baby like, to keep repeating pretty much the exact same phrases, and use Martin L King's mannerisms and cadence, to keep talking of hope and change.  MLK did some great things, but there was A WHOLE LOT OF ACTION BEHIND HIS WORDS.



If this guy was doing this and trying to hire onto a company, to lead as a point man, even a small one, let alone one the size of the US government or really just about any type of executive job. Then, deride experience, and just talk about change for "change" sake, he would never get hired. Not even by the "Lemming Democrats," who's vote it seems is cast on popularity, and the coolness factor. He's going to have to stop with the rhetoric and "communicate" what it is he is going to do. Because many of us who don't live in Iowa or New Hampshire , don't get, or understand what all the commotion is about, furthermore, many of us prefer "locomotion" over commotion.  So yes, where's the beef, the meat... I watch, listen and read, and it is not there... I'm not saying I won't vote for Obama, but not based on what I have "heard" so far.  I need to see some action. "Talk is cheap," it's an easy thing to do, action is quite another story. The two examples that Obama and Edwards gave as accomplishments in the Senate, were not!!



Edward's bill, did not make it through the "House," and Obama's bill, about stopping lobbyist from buying meals for members of Congress, has no teeth. As long as one stands up while he eats, lobbyist can buy them all the food they can eat, and all the drink they can drink, then, they can sit down together and chatter like birds.  Both bills did have "good intentions" but neither was effective... what change?



Pathetic, that this is all these great agents of change can point to... I need more than words folks.  I think most of us remember or have at least heard, John Lennon's great song "Imagine."  There is a line in the song that goes "imagine there's no money, I wonder if you can"  well when he died, he was worth sixty million dollars, over a hundred million in today's currency. It's just words folks... it's a beautiful song, but just words, none the less.  Now if he had given all that money away, it would have been a whole lot more believable, but he didn't.   A little action goes a long way...   And I think, "the fierce urgency of now," is needed, and required, if he, Obama, is in this for the long haul.  Otherwise, I don't believe he will make it to the finish line.  The "Clinton Machine" and the media, will expose him. If not, the Republican attack machine will... It's best to know now, and please, not another round of... it's a new day, a new dawn, the polictics of hope and change will save the day... Yeah, righ! It's the same "old glitter" in a new box. Everybody is a changer and a uniter, just tell "us" how and what you are going to change?





Everybody is a changer and a uniter, just tell "us" how and what you are going to change?






Francis Crosby, Columbus Georgia (Sent Monday, January 07, 2008 1:18 PM)

_________________________________________
Kudos Francis Crosby, well said, I could not have said it better!  Great post.
Like I said, many Clinton supporters won't understand. Tomorrow we'll see if voters in New Hampshire understand what change Obama could bring.

As for the "how," by simply acting like an adult. Not feeling the childish need to characterize any cross-aisle discussion as "dealings with the devil," like we just heard a couple days ago from the Clinton campaign.

Its that simple, and yet seemingly for the Clinton camp, completely incomprehensible.

HP - I believe you've been here longer than me, when I came on last January. Not that you have any reason to remember anything I said, but if you did, you might have noticed that it was Obama's tone that started winning my support back in the March or April timeframe. He wasn't taking gratuitous shots at Bush. We all know Bush will be gone. We're looking for an adult to replace him, not a partisan warrior (aka master food fighter).

I thought it was exceedingly clear that people were tired of partisan politics. By that, we recognize partisan differences will and should remain. But when people say partisan politics in a negative tone, they usually are referring to the childish games.
I don't understand why people like Mike K in Denver get so mad when we ask what it is that Obama is going to change. We're just trying to make an intelligent choice about who we vote for, and Obama never says what it is. He just says he's going to "change" things.
Also, I never really liked being told to go to a website in answer to a question. That usually means that the person telling you to go to the website doesn't have an answer.
I also note that Mike tells us we should STFU ( I believe that's online slang for SHUT THE F*** UP) Isn't that nice? Why are Obama's supporters so defensive and angry?
It really is time for the press to be more fair with Obama and ask him what he's going to change, and how he's going to do it, and it's time for Obama to start explaining what he means by "change." So far he's been very vague.
Jimmy from Chicago writes:

Wrong!
MSNBC has beat Faux for the past couple months and going.
What's wrong with NPR?

------------------


Nope. Overall Fox leads by quite a large amount. There have been some ebb and flow within certain demographics, but overall Fox is way ahead of the game.

And there's nothing wrong with NPR, other then the fact that 98% of the people that pay for it don't listen to it.

You want to get your news from only MSNBC, CNN or the networks? Go for it. You have the right to be as ignorant as you want to be.



Jimmy says:

I stand corrected, I was wrong.................. It seems we still have a large contingent in this country that are slack jawed, misinformed, backwater sheep that absorb and regurgitate the filth spewed from Fox(apparently they came in on top with news ratings).
Well, fox still blows!

---------

You should work for Hillary. With all your wit, charm, and insight, you'd be perfect for that campaign, and you would fit right in on Day 1. Some would say you would be "Ready!".
Wheres the Beef? There will be less beef on peoples tables, prices are up on all foods, wonder what chinese beef tastes like. Gas up, feed up, bread more expensive, even Walmart uped prices.
John Alexander,Edinboro,PA (Sent Monday, January 07, 2008 12:16 PM)

Gee John, I wonder why Hillary lied when she said in June 2006; "If you want lower gas prices, vote for a democrat".......

I thought by putting in a democrat controlled congress gas prices would go down....

Guess they lied about that one too.....
Paul Miller: Just so.

I remember.
So when he was younger he blew some coke. What did the Republican's blow?
Francis Crosby, Columbus Georgia 1:18pm


Excellent post. You are right on the mark. The Democrats are spending all their time debating 1) The meaning of the word 'Change' 2) How experienced each of them are (hint: none of them are). They don't talk about the issues, they don't talk about their experiences, they don't talk about what they are going to do, and last but not least, they don't talk about what the voters want.

The amount of time these three navel gazers (four if you include Richardson who seems to be around only because they had an extra chair at the debate) spent on telling us what 'change' is during their NH debate was insulting to the voters.

It is an absolute waste of time listening to what this crew has to say.

In my previous post, I made a mistake for which I apologize.

Miss Vera (a formidable and fear-inspiring teacher of yore) always insisted, that "interesting is a dull word."

She was never wrong about dull.

And so, I now respectfully redact the language of my earlier missive and prefer to say,

the battle is just now getting to be fun.

So it is.



I am very frustrated that First Read couldn't moderate well enough to get my comments posted within an hour. It seems no one else will step up to the plate and actually talk about the issues, so I tried to do it and got completely stymied by the lack of efficient mods.

I am NOT HAPPY about this--the primary is in ONE DAY and I may well have lost the chance to convert an undecided voter simply because the mods are lazy.
See, here's the thing:

The problem with all of the "Where's the beef" posts today is that they are magically appearing - TODAY, as if on cue. And when drugs were the topic, the posts about that appeared, then the Muslim" posts, then the slush funds, and on and on. So that causes me to question the sincerity of the request.

Senator Obama's positions are readily available to those who are REALLY wondering . . . for others I fear the question is just another campaign ploy. But I could be wrong.
When I first came on here, I was amazed by the amount of people that were big time Hillary supporters.  Yes I took it as much as I gave it, really ticked off some people and really got hammered into near submission.  All the time I took it, I knew at some point the gods were finally going to prove me right about Hillary Clinton.

As the summer turned into fall, and all the stories about Chinese dishwashers and Norman Hsu and bad tipping and people being abused by the Clinton supporters came out, I sensed that the tide was turning.  All the hatred that the Hillary supporters were throwing at Obama and Edwards and the stories they were digging up and Van's little itty bitty polls and all the Bill Clinton stuff was just eating away at her lead.  I kept saying "there is something wrong here with the Clinton's and one day it will backfire on them".  

Now I have been proven right all along.  People started looking at her "35 years of experience" and decided "Nah, not on my watch".  Iowa was the stepping stone and now New Hampshire begins the long slow descent of the Clinton Dynasty. Hillary as tried everything from tears to pouting to new slogans to trying to be a kinder gentler woman.  You notice she was all fire and brimstone before Iowa; now she is a campfire on it's last ashes.  

Let this be a lesson to all of you president wannabe's who are thinking of getting into this madness....

Talk about your qualifications, don't just stand there and say "35 years of experience"  Prove it....

If you throw dirt at your rival, you might get dirt and a few rocks thrown back at you........

Always tip your waitress and make damn sure the press sees it.....

and finally, don't run for President if all the skelatons in your closet are threatening to break the closet door down.
"THATS RIGHT FOOD STAMPER JOHN FROM IOWA, ITS MY DUTY TO EXPOSE ALL THE FILTH OF THE DEMOCRATS, THE YELLOW BELLIES THAT DONT SERVE BUT CRITIZE, FDR PUT PEOPLE LIKE THAT IN PRISON IN WW2  WE NEED TO FOLLOW  WE RE TIRED OF YOU NON WORKING CREEPS TAKING OUR MONEY FOR WELFARE, AND WE RE READY TO KICK YOUR ASS
KING OF SMEAR AND FACTS (Sent Monday, January 07, 2008 11:37 AM)"  I'll tell my employees to send you to my office when you get here.  You are a pathetic hater who deserves the marginalization that is coming.
Paul Miller: Just so.

I remember.
Mark Thieme (Sent Monday, January 07, 2008 2:25 PM
---------------------------------------------------
Well, well Mark..I SHOULD think you, you of all people would remember.  lol as do I, not much I missed about your "politics", aka the game.
I am very frustrated that First Read couldn't moderate well enough to get my comments posted within an hour. It seems no one else will step up to the plate and actually talk about the issues, so I tried to do it and got completely stymied by the lack of efficient mods.

I am NOT HAPPY about this--the primary is in ONE DAY and I may well have lost the chance to convert an undecided voter simply because the mods are lazy.
Steve, Hartford, CT (Sent Monday, January 07, 2008 2:50 P
---------------------ROTFLMAO......................
NO ONE ever changes any minds on this blog!  Some never even change their underwear, nor do they know how to spell underWARE!!!  Get a grip man!
be forewarned hillary is beaten down sufficiently to turn loose some of the criminal elements of her seedy campaign staff, because if she can't win in a fair fight she will cheat, and she has a staff that can cheat with the best of em
MK,MO (Sent Monday, January 07, 2008 12:24 PM)

-------------------------------------------------
MK MO pray for John he is the one in need of all your positive energy, better he than do nothing, know nothing OBAMA.  No need to worry about Rudy, only McCain to beat in the GE.

Earlier, I inquired where the Clinton tuba section had gone.

One little cloud rises on their horizon and it ruins their whole day (paraphrasing what Butch said to Sundance).

Really, it's only a scratch... come back and defend what honor is left...

And once again, it is just now becoming fun!

The amount of time these three navel gazers (four if you include Richardson who seems to be around only because they had an extra chair at the debate) spent on telling us what 'change' is during their NH debate was insulting to the voters.

It is an absolute waste of time listening to what this crew has to say.
Jarrod Branch, Manchester NH (Sent Monday, January 07, 2008 2:47
---------------------------------------------------
They were so much better than the six warmongers touting religion and smacking each other to get attention.
Is it true they were led in song by McCain in a rendition or BOMB, BOMB, IRAN?
(Substitute, the word Effective, for Change.)

**Paul**  

Like I said, many Clinton supporters won't understand. Tomorrow we'll see if voters in New Hampshire understand what change Obama could bring.
Its that simple, and yet seemingly for the Clinton camp, completely incomprehensible.

Paul Miller, Woodbridge, VA (Sent Monday, January 07, 2008 2:10 PM)

No Paul, it's not that simple. Try factoring in the word "EFFECTIVE" and lets see how the charismatic rhetoric of, change, new day, new dawn, "new politics," new America, new world order... goes down. It dramatically changes the equation.... Because when the hyperbole of "change" band wagon stops, and it has to stop somewhere... All that talk of change this... change that... and change the other... is going to catch up with him... The "ticking clock" of what, and how, does he plan to change things, is soon, going to sound like a Japanese gong, beating in his ear.  As we, (and there is lots of us) and the other "bigger states," on down the line, want to know as to, exactly what his plan of "change," is.  So again, yes!   Where is the beef...  The chicken?  A tuna salad?  Come on Obama Camp, we are starving out here... "Talking" about food does make me "hungry," I don't and won't deny, but to get that "hunger" feed you've got to get in that kitchen and rattle those pots and pans. "EFFECTIVITY," feeds my hunger, your hunger, and the hunger of the world.  When it comes to picking a "talker" or a "doer" I'll take a doer, any day.




Francis Crosby:  





Enough said,

                                          just do it.




And once again, it is just now becoming fun!


Mark Thieme (Sent Monday, January 07, 2008 3:47 PM)

---------------------------------------------

Enjoy yourself Mark, as tomorrow I do believe Hillary and McCain will be the surprise in Obama's and Romney's eyes! Fun? Interesting?  You betcha!
If not another day will surely dawn. As for change....
Jimmy says:

I stand corrected, I was wrong.................. It seems we still have a large contingent in this country that are slack jawed, misinformed, backwater sheep that absorb and regurgitate the filth spewed from Fox(apparently they came in on top with news ratings).
Well, fox still blows!
------------------------------------------------------
Jimmy I see you have meet jerry from cc/tx.
So many more like him it is an absolute epidemic. I hear it is hereditary, in the genes, no cure.
"Show me the cipher using the bills Obama authored or introduced (not including bills sponsored or cosponsored), as a foundation, if you will:

Alternative Diesel Standard

Fuel Economy Reform Act

Health Care for Hybrids Act

National Low Carbon Fuel Standard Act

Oil SENSE Act

Federal Funding Accountability & Transparency Act

Iraq War De-escalation Act

Cooperative Proliferation Detection, Interdiction Assitance, and

Conventional Threat Reduction Act of 2006

Lead Free Toys Act

Healthy Communities Act

Healthy Places Act

Mercury Market Minimization Act

Missing Mercury in Manufacturing Monitoring and Mitigation Act

Chemical Security and Safety Act

Spent Nuclear Fuel Tracking and Accountability Act

Innovation Districts for School Improvement Act

Summer Term Education Programs for Upward Progress Act

Education Opportunity Act

Higher Education Opportunity Through Pell Grant Expansion Act

National MEDiC Act

Hospital Quality Report Card Act

Federal Employees Health Benefits Program Efficiency Act

Attacking Viral Influenza Across Nations Act

Lead Poisoning Reduction Act

Genomics and Personalized Medicine Act

Sheltering All Veterans Everywhere Act

Home for Heroes Act

Legislative Transparency and Accountability Act

Honest Leadership and Open Government Act

Obama also worked as a community organizer and a civil rights attorney, and is a Senior Lecturer in Constitutional Law at University of Chicago Law School.

Constitution where have I heard that from ... oh I know, nowhere in the last eight years. ...

Again, where exactly, is the cipher? Now lets compare the above with the "apt words of Ezra Klein at The American Prospect"

After this that is:

"Kellman was looking for an organizer for the new Developing Communities Project (DCP), which would focus on black city neighborhoods. Obama, only 24, struck board members as "awesome" and "extremely impressive," and they quickly hired him, at $13,000 a year, plus $2,000 for a car--a beat-up blue Honda Civic, which Obama drove for the next three years organizing more than twenty congregations to change their neighborhoods."

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070416/moberg


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