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First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC Political Researcher



Obama, Clinton at it on Social Security

Posted: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 4:54 PM by Domenico Montanaro

From NBC/NJ’s Aswini Anburajan
HENDERSON, Nev. -- Last night's debate may have put some arguments between the Democratic candidates to rest, but Obama reprised an old one this morning, hitting Clinton on social security.

Obama told the crowd that they may be receiving a mailer from Senator Clinton that contrasts his plan with hers, but the Senator appears to have muddled the language of the actual attack.

"Some of you may have been getting these, a flier lately from Senator Clinton's campaign that says that they are gonna solve Social Security just by showing fiscal responsibility and Obama is going to initiate a trillion-dollar tax cut on hard working families."

What he appeared to be referring to was a Clinton attack on his call to raise the cap on the payroll tax for social security. Currently, Americans only pay social security taxes on the first $97,000 of income. 

A recent Clinton mailer in Nevada shows Obama and Clinton side-by-side. The mailer says Clinton has a "blue print to rebuild the road to middle class prosperity," adding that she will provide tax relief to middle class Americans and "address social security without putting burdens on hard working families or seniors."

Next to Obama's picture the headline reads, "A Plan With a Trillion Dollar Tax Increase on America's Hard Working Families." It goes on to quote Obama saying that the best way to address social security would be to raise the cap on the payroll tax and "send more of Nevada families' hard earned dollars to Washington."

Addressing raising the cap on the payroll tax, Obama said, "We might exempt sort of middle folks from maybe $97K up to 200K or there might be some exemptions, but once people are making over $200-250K, they can afford to pay a little more in payroll tax."

"So this is what I proposed -- this is what Sen. Clinton is calling a trillion-dollar cut on hard-working Americans," Obama continued, repeating his mistake on labeling the tax increase a tax cut.

He went on to say that Senator Clinton thinks that the top three percent of wage earners in this country were "middle-class Americans."

"By the way, one last point I want to make about this -- what's worse is, Senator Clinton when she was on rope line in Iowa, somebody asked her about this,” he said, “she proposed the same, she said she’d be open to the same plan that I just offered. But now is sending out a flier calling this a trillion-dollar tax cut."

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Just released Pew Poll shows Hillary leading Obama nationally by 15% - and she blew him away at the MSNBC debate last night.  Loved his response about how he loses papers??!!!  Maybe he lost all those records from his time in the IL state legislature – is that the new explanation as to why they won’t be released?

You're likable enough Barack......
Hillary Clinton is a deceptive liar.  Plain and simple.  That's not what we need in a President.

Cheney, Rove, they both have INCREDIBLE resumes, but they are deceptive liars.
Dear voters,

I have a plan, and that plan is to make things better. I will do that by being responsible and by making things better. There are 8 other points to my plan that will be revealed as soon as my White House documents are - after the election. I'll be ready on day one, and if I'm not elected, we will probably be attacked by terrorists. That is a fact, not a scare tactic. And Senator Obama smells funny. The end.

Your Friend,
Hillary has lost my vote. Her behavior is much more becoming a Goldwater Republican than a modern day Democrat. She won't stop until she brings the party down with her.
Single women with children who support hillary. You are voting against your own child. I find it hard to believe a single mom can look their kids in the eye tell them they can be anything, all the while, they vote against the only canidate that reflects their childrens real life. Obama is the only canidate that can personally relate to you and your children's shared pain. I couldn't do it that if it was my kid
The Democrats are the party that values and helps blacks and women; the Republicans do nothing. It is, therefore, stupid for Clinton, Obama and Edwards to debate race and gender. What each should do is explain how he/she will a) end the war in Iraq, b) protect the nation from terrorism and c) manage the US economy to promote sustainable growth. I will base my selection of a candidate mainly on those two criteria.
The way things are going he said she said is really  usless.....Right now there is so many thing out of proportion that i dont think you can do it...All of a sudden these plans come out and thats going to solve our problems...Did you really sit down and actually come up with a solution or just something to make ous feel you did.. These problems didnt come over night and you got a working solution just in the amount of time you been running for office.. Find this hard to believe...You should look at the anyalisis of some of economist they dont agree.....right now i dont think any one has our interest at heart just getting in office is the most important and mabe in four yrs thing will calm down...I havent decided who to vote for yet im lucky to be and independent...You promise a steak and send ous a bone...You have the majority and cant do crap or you dont have the ? to....right now i feel who ever gets in four more yrs of the same bs......
When are people going to wake up. The Clintons are just the type of politicians that Obama has been talking about. The same old, same old. Let's not put another Clinton in the White House. I am tired of the lies and corruption of these people. Let's have real change. We have not had an ethical president in the White House for so long that it is hard to grasp, the concept of honesty and honor. Please Vote for integrity this time America!
"she will ...'address social security without putting burdens on hard working families or seniors.'"

This is Washington speak for I really don't have a plan.

And, since I avoided having any plan of my own, I can condemn my opponent's plan because they don't have anything I said that can be attacked.

clinton is  just a looser. I lost respect of this woman. period. She can't run a campaign without attacking? i am so discusted. If she win Democratic nomination, i will not vote period. i will sit home this fall.
There she goes again. Hillary's attacks have been relentless. She's determined to win this through negative campaigning.
Tell you -- the Clintons do not define this type of thing as a dirty trick -- it is simply their political world which has put us all to shame.
This is why I distrust Hillary as a champion of the middle and working class.  She calls Obama's plan to lift the payroll tax cap a "middle class tax increase".

It is hard to imagine that even in NYC or LA that an income over 100K is a middle class income.

Imagine a 0% payroll tax on income over 100K while if you make less than 100K, it is roughly taxed at 15%.  Talk about regressive and upside down!

Not only is Obama's plan to increase the cap progressive and fair for all of us, it is simply an issue that any Democratic candidate should take out of the primaries.  

Anything less than supporting a cap lift makes sense and great policy...for a Republican constituency.

Not sure what HRC is thinking...
Bumbling through the presidential race..that's our Obama.  Hope he does not say fire the nukes when he means don't fire the nukes.
This bring's to mind something from last night that was'nt commented on.Did anyone else notice Hillary's spokesperson appearing with Trippi & Axelrod, was a Paid Lobbyist from a prominent DC law firm? I've seen nothing about this today. Oopz, i forgot, there one of us also.
Aswini, you're a smart person but do you read your posts before you put them up?  

How is it that he's hitting her if he's simply responding to yet another divisive and untruthful mailer from her campaign?
It's about time someone goes after Clinton on Social Security.  She has not provided any solutions and she has gotten away with it.  Her plan seems to be, elect me president and then I will tell you what I will do.  The last time we did that, we got Bush the compassionate conservative.  We need to force candidates to tell us about specific policy proposals now, instead of electing them and trusting that they will do a good job.  
Obama's flier is easy

Clinton's Social Security Plan which will be ready on day 1 is to study the issue.

My plan is to increase taxes on the upper 3% of americans that benefit from the sweat of working families labor each and every day while sitting on their yachts.  My plan ensures they help pay for your retirement not just profit from your labor.

We need change not studies as usual.
Cali D

You are the problem with so many people. Don't vote for the good choice, vote for the one like you. Are you serious. Look, my son or daughter might become president but not because I messed up and got knocked up with no husband. It should be because they are qualified and deserving. Chick is you crazy? Please do not go there or down that road. Wait, wait ok by your logic any women who votes for Obama is voting against themselves and their mama and their daughter. What a bad person that would make them. Whatever.
...Marc Cooper
The Huffington Post
Obama Storms Vegas and Chides Clinton
January 16, 2008 02:16 PM

Henderson, NV -- Just three days before the "tie-breaker" Nevada caucuses this coming Saturday, Democratic presidential contender Barack Obama stormed through the Silver State today and chided rival Hillary Clinton's campaign, accusing her of distorting his position on social security and health care.

"You may be getting some fliers, you may be getting some phone calls from the Hillary Clinton camp saying she will solve the social security crisis through fiscal responsibility while Barack Obama wants a trillion dollar tax hike," the Illinois senator told a jammed crowd Wednesday morning at the convention center in this booming Las Vegas suburb. Obama then explained he would bolster social security by removing the current cap on the very highest of earners and not be a general tax raise as implied by Clinton. "Maybe she thinks the top 3% of earners are average American taxpayers, but I don't."

Obama also complained that his supporters were getting calls and fliers from Clinton supporters accusing his health care plan of leaving 15 million Americans uninsured. Obama brushed aside the charge and then proceeded to criticize President Clinton and Hillary Clinton for attempting health care reform "the wrong way" last decade. "They went behind closed doors to do it and allowed lobbyists the and health care industry to shape the plan and eventually kill it."

Obama went out of his way to take his jabs at Clinton today, delivering them after he finished a standard stump speech and after answering a handful of questions from the audience of a thousand or so that began to gather in front of the convention center doors at 7 am -- two hours before the town hall began. "I want to just say a few more things before I go," Obama said as he launched into his swipes at Clinton....'


Hillary just CAN'T TELL THE TRUTH !
It's goes against her principles
She wants to protect the TOP 3% of wage earners !!


'...Obama then explained he would bolster social security by removing the current cap on the very highest of earners and not be a general tax raise as implied by Clinton. "Maybe she thinks the top 3% of earners are average American taxpayers, but I don't."...'

What's wrong with THAT PROPOSAL ?
It'll SAVE SOCIAL SECURITY !!

Hillary HAS NO PLAN to save Social Security
She'll appoint a commission......
and lie about Obama
Mary D, Iowa

 Try thinking of some positive of your own candidate and quit bashing mine.
Obama defeats Alan Keyes-monumental achievement. This qualifies him to run for President of the United States. I do not think so. Anyone with an open mind that watched the debate last night clearly saw the strength and leadership exhibited by HRC. Whose hands do you really want our country in?
So much for a truce for the sake of the party!  It's the same old Clinton politics...that we could do without...
From the Politico.com:

'...Red-state Dems sour on Clinton

By: Josh Kraushaar and John F. Harris
Jan 15, 2008 07:04 AM EST

Arizona Gov. Janet Napolitano’s blessing was
well-timed for Obama, coming just days after the
candidate came up short against Clinton in the New
Hampshire primary.

Barack Obama in recent days has sprinted ahead in the
endorsement derby against Hillary Rodham Clinton when
it comes to a certain breed of Democrat—politicians
who have won statewide in places where Republicans
dominate presidential politics.

Among a barrage of prominent statewide elected
officials to back Obama publicly this month is Arizona governor Janet Napolitano, and U.S. Sens. Ben Nelson of Nebraska and Tim Johnson of South Dakota.

What all three politicians have in common is that they are Democrats who have cracked the code in getting elected in states where Republicans historically have triumphed at the presidential level. George W. Bush won these states both times.

So did most of his Republican predecessors. In fact,
these three states have each voted for a Democratic
presidential nominee only once since 1948.

The string of recent Obama endorsements seems to be
more than a coincidence.

During extensive interviews in recent weeks in
Republican-leaning states, Politico found widespread
belief among current and former Democratic statewide
officials that Obama is the more electable candidate
with their electorates. These politicians also
frequently registered a fear that Clinton’s
personality and past history make her too polarizing
to win independent and Republican-leaning voters...'
Clinton President
Obama Vice President
John Edwards Attorney General
change, change, change
tired of hearing it
the dem congress and house have done nothing
change to what i might ask>?
higher taxes?
at least the soldiers will be home to pay their new higher fair share
what a joke
keep mortaging the future and giving away my money
thats how to get my vote
soon we can all just be on welfare and let the government issues us checks and jobs
what a happy day it will be
Clinton President
Obama Vice President
John Edwards Attorney General


America Destroyed
Sierra,SF

 Please quit the cut and paste debate. I think Obama supporters think they can get everyone else to stop the actual discussion by force of word count.
I think it's fair to criticize policy of any candidate if you disagree but as I go back and forth trying to make a decision about a candidate two things stand out in the Obama camp: HRC is a liar and Obama will unite the country.  But what is Obama's plan?  If you want to attack Clinton, don't attack her personality and claim we just need someone who's charismatic . . . make a substantial point - otherwise you are just the spiteful attackers you accuse the Clintons of being.
Please, before believing Clinton on Obama's experience, read the latest TIME article.
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1704117,00.html?cnn=yes
Liar is a strong word used by those who have no substance.   If the War mongers would stop using the money in the SSaccount we might have a chance of saving it.  Both of these candidatates have good honest ambitions to change the course of SS, Iraq etc.  Is one better then the other?  Time will tell and who you chose to elect will be your responsibility.  Our job now is to listen and learn so we can make a good judgement call.  I voted for Bush twice.  Big Mistake Big Mistake.  Was swayed by his goodness.  Can you believe that.  Well today that has armed me with caution.  My vote will not be for pretty words or empty promises. Proud to be an INDEPENDENT
Obama supporters, you seem to spent an awful lot of time tearing down another candidate but have very little positive to say about yours.  How about the facts of exactly what he plans to do to make this country better.  Change and Uniter does not cut it.  We have heard that before.
Clinton will be ready on day one.

On day two she will be under investigation.
I dont think we are going to get any solutions on anything just mouth talking...I encourage indpendents and undecided to unite.  Find a canadate we can support.   if you want four more yrs of the same in those who have made a career out of politcs then we deserve it.. I would love to know what clinton has done for the last 35 yrs besides sponsoring..Mcain is a long time politican whats he done...Sponsors big spending also.....Politcs as usual or change....I would love to hear from others on getting a canadate we all can support...for now dont give the pollster any hints on who your supporting..they seem to discourage voters and mislead them on with mis information...we need indep and undecide to unite..any suggestion..and those who are representing canadates now dont bother.......for now spread the word that we are looking for other potential i think we have enough of ous to get a winner.....
Response to:
<<Sierra,SF

Please quit the cut and paste debate. I think Obama supporters think they can get everyone else to stop the actual discussion by force of word count.
Give it a rest Sierra (Sent Wednesday, January 16, 2008 7:01 PM)>>

That's wishful thinking - it can't be done as she doesn't have an original thought in her head - just spends hours cutting and pasting other people's opinions that match her same moronic rhetoric. So sad to be such a hater.....

kjmatthews, take a look at this:

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/ObamaBlueprintForChange.pdf

On Social Security the difference is simple:

Obama would raise taxes on people making over $97K.
Clinton doesn't have a plan.

That's a big difference between the candidates, as far as I am concerned.  

Obama will try to convince people to support hard solutions for tough problems, and he's honest about what needs to be done.  Clinton gets her positions from opinion polls and will tell you whatever you want to hear.  In the case of Social Security, there is no easy solution, so she has nothing to offer.  
All of their plans are available on their website.  Do you want them to stop by your house and give you a personal presentation?
All the supporters of Obama are so blind that they face to see and realise that their "saviour" is not ready to be President. Any President that could not take criticism of his plans doesnt deserve to face the world. Grow up guys, Obama is NOT ready to lead this country no matter how 'likeable' you all think he is.
Hillary can't fool me, I will never vote for her no matter what! My vote for Obama is solid!!!!!!!! Believe it,there are many people just like me!
Senator Obama,

Why not just eliminate payroll tax altogether and raise the highest income earners' bracket's tax rate.  You know that's what you want to do.  Isn't that the "progressive" thing to do.  I mean, why should the poor have to pay for their retirement benefits?

Also, Senator, would you kindly reimburse the citizens of Illinois your Salary for the last year, as you have done NOTHING for us, who elected you to serve US, and not serve your Higher ambitions.

Sincerely,
A Voter
All Obama supporters know how to do is attack Hillary with hateful personal attacks. At least she has worked hard for where she is at and had to fight her way through hateful messages like you people make. Grow up. Support your candidate but leave hatefulness home. Sick of hearing it.
Politics all!  Obama is no different than anyone else.  All politicians inflate and obfuscate to make points.  Barack is a politician!  By the way, if negative, mean attacks are what he is inspiring you to do, something is wrong.

Do the research for yourself - look up transcripts and Senate records.  

Further, the male establishment reigns for the moment, and misogyny is a fact of life - just listen to the news.  Therefore since most pundits are male, they are easier on Barack.  The big issue is sexism not racism.

Example: I used to enjoy the first part of Keith Olbermann, but the segment on BS and her kids etc. as humor is dehumanizing and especially repulsive.  I watch TV less and less.

You can do better guys!

Hillary 08  
Some people are destined for greatness regardless of short term outcomes.

I was heart broken when Al Gore lost - but feel redeemed now for supporting him.  Al's contemporary role on the world stage is more respected than the person he competed against.

I feel the same way about Obama.  His message for our country is greater than an election's outcome.  I hope Obama's impact matches that of Al Gore to help our younger generation.
hey csh from Illinois...yeah right... Zogby just release Naional...Dead Even...Ouch
kjmatthews, FL - I agree with you.  However, it is not just 'plan' that is important - it is character as well.  I did a great deal of research on the Clintons - both then and now - because, like it or not, this 'candidacy' brings them BOTH to the table.    And, after reading LOADS of articles lately, including the above, I am more and more disappointed in both of them…the flier her campaign sent out is misleading at best.  Don't know about you, but aside from potential, policies, and ability to draw ALL people together, at the top of MY list is honor and integrity.  What I feel lately is that those qualities are not qualities I can associate with either of the Clintons.  Their habit of ‘opponent bashing’,  rather than Ms. Clinton simply showing her own plan, in this campaign has thoroughly turned me off. As far as Obama, per an article in Newsweek online, he became a state lawmaker in 1997, four years AHEAD of Hillary Clinton's entrance into elected office, as U.S. senator.  Clinton's time in the Senate is her only direct experience as an elected official.  It was her husband who was President.  In all deference to Obama, his background of public service, should anyone decide to review it, is pretty impressive!  I have done my homework - before I vote, I want to be totally certain who I am voting for. Aside from a plan I feel is good for the American people, I would be remiss if I did not take character into consideration.  My suggestion?  Read all you can put your hands on, do your research...and then make your own choice.
These posts for Obama are just like Obama, blah, blah,blah,blah,blah... and no substance.
It is my desperate hope, that Nevada, South Carolina, and Tsunami Tuesday voters will punish Hillary and Bill Clinton for trying to tear down Obama (or whoever else might threaten their return to the White House) with knowing misrepresentations.  This Social Security attack is EXACTLY the type of low blow that they are more than happy to employ if it means knocking Obama down a few points.  What a sad shame.  Let us all commit to do everything we can to overthrow Bill, Hillary, and their dirty tricks machine.  I'm going to go donate another $100 to Barack right now.
Dirty tricks seem to be Hillary's way to try to win... I want better.
To KJMatthews,

I thought that the purpose of the mailer was to criticize the substance of senator Obama's plan.

However, it is Senator Clinton who doesn't have a plan. How is she going to fix social security? Here is her plan:

"address social security without putting burdens on hard working families or seniors". Where are the specifics here? Again, she is a master in dodging hard questions.

Finally, your post shows how the clintonistas by repeating the same thing seems to have their own truth cut from the reality. In their world, Senator Obama has no substance and no matter what and the fact that he has put forward different plans to move forward. They'll keep repeating the same thing. They say, he hasn't done anything but they attack his record. If he hasn't done anything there shouldn't be any record at all.

At this point (Post Reno debates) I rate Obama as smartest, Hillary as wisest, and Edwards as nicest. Someting there for everyone.

They are a bit short on weaknesses however, so I suggest the following:

For Obama, a judicious attention to detail is often needed. Also you are trying to be CEO, not COO of the Country and there is a difference.

For Hillary, less tendancy to micro-manage, and not so much faith in plans.

For Edwards, Ideals are great, but often ineffective is the real needs met.


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