Did Obama win more delegates?

Posted: Saturday, January 19, 2008 7:23 PM by Mark Murray
Filed Under: 2008, Clinton, Obama

From NBC's Mark Murray and NBC/NJ's Aswini Anburajan
The Obama campaign just held a conference call with reporters asserting that -- due to Obama beating Clinton outside of Clark County (Las Vegas) -- they actually won more pledged Nevada delegates than Clinton did, 13-12.

The math turns out to be a bit confusing, but the shorthand is this: The more populous Clark County, which Clinton won, awarded a even number of delegates, and Clinton and Obama split those down the middle. Meanwhile, the more rural areas, which Obama won, awarded an odd number of delegates, which gave Obama the edge. "We showed real strength statewide," campaign manager David Plouffe said in the call.

But the AP -- as well as NBC News -- had reported that the delegate split being Clinton 13, Obama 12. Who is wrong here? Per the Obama camp, the state party is still gathering results, and they believe the AP has incomplete numbers.

In the Q&A, a reporter asked, so does this mean you won Nevada? Plouffe replied, "We'll leave that up to you guys."

And now NBC News shows a change in delegates from our earlier count: It's Obama 13, Clinton 12.

*** Update *** AP now also shows that Obama won the delegate count.

EMAIL THIS

Comments

It's interesting that in delegates Obama has not lost yet.

In Iowa he was 1st.
In New Hampshire he tied for 1st.
In Nevada he was 1st.

This does reveal a general statewide appeal (county by county) that could earn him a place on the ticket even if Hill/bill gets the top spot. He's good for close or "purple" states becasue of his appeal to independents.

3 for 3 in delegate count is something they need to talk about. As Clinton's main man Wolfson says it's about delegates. If that's true Hill/bill has yet to defeat the guy in all 3 matches to date.

HIll/bill does lead in superdelgates though.

Toni C (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 7:33 PM)

This whole notion that "Obama really won because he won the delegates" is ALL just fluff and spin by the Obama camp. Those delegates do not ACTUALLY count for anything because they are fluid and can change again and again before the convention. So much for that NONSENSE...HILLARY WINS NEVADA!!!!!

Cathy, Upstate NY (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 7:33 PM)

Hillary won a Street

Obama won the State!!!!!!

Debbie, Wisconsin (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 7:33 PM)

More delegates with less votes??? 2000 redux anyone?

Eric, NY, NY (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 7:34 PM)

People who thinks this means something are very dumb. All the delegates go to the winner at the national convention. How many delegates did Edwards get for winning South Carolina? NONE!

Dan Smith, Boston, MA (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 7:35 PM)

Well, this sounds like the popular vote vs. the electoral vote situation. Seems like Hillary won the 'popular' vote, but Obama won the more important 'electoral' vote!!

Yeah for Obama!!!

Sarah, Vienna, VA (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 7:35 PM)

SAY WHAT ?

J. JACKSON (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 7:41 PM)

It's interesting to note that Obama won 11 counties to Clinton's 6. She won the more populous counties with more minority voters. I think Obama's win throughout the state shows that he has a more diverse following. The Latino vote is important, but nationwide is a small percentage of the vote. Hillary will bring out the strong anti-Hillary GOP voters in November, energizing dejected republicans. Obama will bring out GOP voters who've become disillusioned with Bush. Obama will win in November!

Remember--whoever wins the most delegates, wins the race!

ObamaOhio'08

Karen S (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 7:43 PM)

I would to hear how Obama will represent a
Christian nation when he is Muslin? I am only concern since the Muslins say they will attach our county the next time from within. You could not be more wintin than to be the President of the United States of America.

Jane, Paris, Tennessee (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 7:44 PM)

It's funny to hear all these Clinton supporters complain about delegates now when they were falling over themselves to point out that Clinton got more delegates than Edwards in Iowa, and that Clinton's superdelegate edge would make her eventual victory over inevitable. Now these same people hate the delegate system because it doesn't benefit them anymore. How in the spirit of the Clinton campaign.

Shadow, Hamden, CT (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 7:45 PM)

Dan Smith....the delegates actually mean something because that's what you tally to figure out the eventual winner. So after Obama sins with more delegates, then he gets them all.... what the popular vote wint in Nevada gives Billary is momentum, which might be leveled out when Obama wins in SC.

Tunde, Dallas, TX (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 7:46 PM)

Tunde, Dallas, TX (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 7:47 PM)

If one candidate does not win enough delegates nationwide to capture the nomination - could John Edwards be the king maker and put himself as the vice president candidate again

No name (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 7:51 PM)

Hillary wins Sin City
Obama wins Nevada

Yiannis, Baltimore (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 7:53 PM)

no you guys dont understand

we are talking about pledged delegates who are required to vote for the candidate they are assigned to...nevada has 25 pledged delegates

13-obama
12-clinton
0-edwards

you are confusing delegates with superdelegates

John, California (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 7:54 PM)

Kleenex anyone, LMAO!!!!!!!!!!

Come on OBAMARAMA, Spin That!!!!!!!!!! 13-12 BARACK. We're up by 2 now!!!!!!!!

Rick,ky (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 7:55 PM)

Why can't the Hussein Obama-fanatics just respect the will of the people - the voters? The people just don't want Hussein Obama for president, they want Hillary Clinton. I guess the Hussein Obama-fanatics are so used to hearing their own voices that they have become deaf and don't hear the real people anymore.

Hussein Obama is Old School -

CLINTON IS COOL!

Hillary for president

Martin (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 7:55 PM)

Please come join the conversation, hillaryclinton.com. We have a comfortable chair just for you, please sit down and tell us what you think.

Z (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 7:58 PM)

Please Jane in Tennessee - do your research if you are concerned. Obama is NOT a Muslim, has never been. He is a Christian, but it's really not about that. This is a bit of scare and tear tactics promoted by mainstream Washington that want to stop his uniting message.

MLDavis, Boston, MA (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 7:59 PM)

Jane, Jane, Jane: Please read a civics textbook that was not written by a right wing nut. Firstly, it was never the Founding Father's intention that this would be a "Christian Nation". If you read something called the Federalist Papers, you may learn that. Second. Obama and his family attend Christian Church, and if this will relieve your worried mind, he was raised by a white mother and grandparents. PUHLEEZE read a book before you vote.

tiredofignorance MN (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 8:00 PM)

Who gives AP, NBC, etc, any selective right to choose a State's Delegate? Quoting Jill Derby who is President of the Nevada State Democratic Party: "We don't select our National Delegates the WAY THEY ARE SAYING" "WE WON'T SELECT NATIONAL DELEGATES FOR A FEW MORE MONTHS." Who are you going to believe? OBAMA lost! Furthermore, if I were a Nevadan delegate or citizen and had you guys saying who won, frankly I would be more than pissed off! 51 percent folks...51 percent!

Hillary in '08 Period!

RW, Houston, TX (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 8:01 PM)

I love this silver lining to the otherwise dark cloud of Hillary winning Nevada. Perhaps this is the Gods of Decency having their comment on the disgusting campaign tactics of the Clintons.

Dave, Evergreen CO (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 8:03 PM)

Yes, Obama did win more delegates. So who should be making a concession speech?

Randy Metter, Henderson Nevada (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 8:06 PM)

Jane, I'm not sure why you are so gullible, but you should really research the facts before you post something and make yourself look silly. If you had done your research, you would have found that Barack Obama is in face NOT a muslim and is a practicing christian at Trinity Church here Chicago. If you are just going to believe everything that you read in a stupid, racist chain email that was probably put out by the Clinton campaign to dupe people just like you then I would personally prefer that you leave the voting to informed citizens.

Nicole, Chicago (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 8:07 PM)

Things can be so bittersweet. When Bush won by the electoral college, while losing the popular vote, we all had to accept it. Why are some of the Clintonites having such a hard time accepting the rules? These law suits, and etc., are too much. Get used to this phrase; "The President of the United States, Barack Obama."

jack (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 8:08 PM)

You Hillary supporters need to wake up to something. You are the only ones who would be willing to vote for her in the General Election. If she takes the nomination, the Democrats LOSE. America hands the keys over to another crazy administration whether it be Romney or McCain.

Rich, Boulder, Co (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 8:12 PM)

Nicole, Chicago (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 8:13 PM)

Obama & Kerry For 2008
if not Clinton & Bill
or Monica vote for Obama......thank you

Peter Pan , California (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 8:17 PM)

Congratulations to Obama. I am sad that Hilary has pulled him into the fray of her negative campaigning and old-school low-ball tactics to the point that he has no choice but to defend himself. I only hope that Americans can see through this. For shame, Clintons. You can see on her face nothing but smugness and Obama seems a little bit more wearied. For a man that has faith in this country's people, one can understand why this is a very trying time. I believe that right will triumph. Keep going Obama. We're with you.

JMM, Hilton Head, SC (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 8:17 PM)

Will the media be fair and in the same breath announce that Hillary won the total votes but Obama won the most delegates??

How about it Tim, Joe, Keith, Chris, and Brian?

Obama won the delegate count. Like the electoral vs. popular vote, the delegate count is what COUNTS!!

Chloe, Chicago (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 8:23 PM)

I love the muslim-o-phobes that always feel it necessary to point out Obamas middle name.

Get a life (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 8:24 PM)

I live in Tennessee and I am embarrassed by people like Jane. When you depend upon right wing scare tactics for your facts, even printed malice information, you become so uninformed. Do you really believe Obama would be where he is in this campaign if he were really a muslim????? Do you really think he would have received the endorsements he has received if he were really muslim????

Jenny, Nashville TN (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 8:27 PM)

Obama claims delegate win but party officials say no
By Sun Staff · January 19, 2008 · 4:46 PM

Sun political columnist Jon Ralston is reporting that the Barack Obama campaign is claiming the delegate win in Nevada, but Democratic Party officials disagree.

Obama’s camp is saying because of his wins outside of Clark County, that he would receive 13 delegates to Hillary Clinton’s 12 delegates.

However, Ralston reports that party officials are saying no delegates will be apportioned until later, probably when the nomination is decided.

Ralston writes: “Party boss Jill Derby told journalist Steve Friess:

‘I don’t know why they’re saying that,’ a confused Derby said. ‘We don’t select our national delegates the way they’re saying. We won’t select national delegates for a few more months"

Sounds like soure looser to me

Another spin from the Obama camp (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 8:34 PM)

Some pretty interesting reports of Chicago-style politics going on courtesy of the Clinton supporters in the caucus rooms. Y'know, stuff like closing the doors early, telling Obama supporters they had the wrong locations, things like that (or should it be "'t'ings lih dat" ). Gee Hil, for a nice girl from Park Ridge, you sure figured out how to fix things.

But hey, who cares: as Wolfson says, it's a delegate battle, not a popular vote contest.

Sean, Seattle (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 8:35 PM)

Hmm, you've got to wonder about John Edwards. Him and Obama were more chummy and on the same core values of not being influenced by lobbyists and he spent a good deal of time defending Obama. Edwards can pick up votes that neither Clinton or Obama would win and likely be able to carry those forward to make a King or Queen if he goes into a VP position. At the core value level, Edwards would be much better suited to run with Obama. I don't see how he could retain credibility going with 'status quo' Hillary.

Seems gender has been playing a strong role, given what I read about one of the strip caucuses, where the group caucusing for Hillary was overwhelmingly female. This is a bit of a worrying factor - because are females voting for Hillary simply because she is female? This could catch women up in the United States, just focusing on that rather than if she is the best choice for now in the country.

Who are these super delegates, and could they backlash against choices that seem to be driven by gender?

Jay, Wgtn, NZ (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 8:38 PM)

I'm an Obama supporter, but this nicety aside, I'd still put his chances at about 2 of 5 right now. It will be interesting to see if Clinton gets a bump in SC. If she doesn't, and Obama takes the state as I expect, I'd say it's 50-50 going into the Super Tuesday states.

For all of those interested, for a really good website for tracking the polls, check out: www.pollster.com

And Rich in Boulder, I think you're bang on with at least one point: Hillary is incredibly polarizing. Clinton fans: you must admit, the moderates just don't like her. It is possible that she'll win given the current political environment, but she'll cost the Dems seats in the Congressional elections, preventing against gains in the rural areas where Dems made gains last time around.

Adam, Urbana, IL (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 8:38 PM)

Clinton won the popular vote, and the momentum. Super Tuesday will put her well ahead in the delegate count as well. What will the Obama campaign say then?

Latina for Clinton (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 8:39 PM)

As all can see, we have two very good candidates,or things would not be so close. What still will be my deciding factor, is who I feel who will be able to have the best expertise, insight, experience, or whatever it will take , to choose the best people to serve in their cabinet, especially Sec. of Defense and Sec. of State, so that we do not have another eight years like we have had.

Connie , Charleston, WV (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 8:40 PM)

About Jon Ralston: yeah, umm, the delegates aren't officially awarded until the DNC. This isn't news. And there's no guarantee that there will be a determined winner after Super Tuesday. This thing may go on for quite some time...

The unofficial count nevertheless has Obama winning the delegates 13-12

Adam, Urbana, IL (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 8:40 PM)

In a sense, this is Florida all over again. Don't ya just love it when the lawyers/pundits/campaigns get involved in the aftermath spin. Plus, what I am enjoying is watching HILL/BILL get 'chippy' because she is not winning going away. Bill is a jerk...was then and is now!

John Slavich, Fort Wayne, IN (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 8:44 PM)

Hillary won 1 more delegate in Iowa than Edwards, but the difference between their vote percentages was 0.6%. Hillary won by more than 6% in Nevada, and got less delegates. That's a HUGE discrepency. How can Obama support a system where the rules suppress what the majority wants? Where is his intregrity?

Julie, Binghamton, NY (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 8:44 PM)

I read a blog on the internet that Hillary Clinton is considering Nancy Pelosi as her vice presidential running mate. That would be a strong ticket. Nancy is a leader, and has a knack for getting things done. It's obvious that neither of these women is afraid to stand up and speak their considerable minds against the Republican pandering to big business. Leave it to Hillary to break the glass ceiling with an all-woman ticket. Go Hillary!

Marcia Cormier (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 8:47 PM)

Jane -- You posed an excellent question. So, I know you are against Romney from the cult of Mormonism too! Good for you, every vote against Romney is a vote in the right direction. Godless heathens, mormons, all of them.

Amelia B. (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 8:47 PM)

I'm reading all this Obama nonsense, and what I'm seeing is stupid! You say he's for CHANGE, and AMERICA, and yet he has yet to present a real plan of any kind, and if you go to his church's website you will see that he pledges his allegiance to AFRICA (in their words the cradle of civilization), NOT to the AMERICA he pretends to love. Hillary is the only candidate on either side who has enough brains to turn this country around. And to say that if she wins the nomination, Democrats will lose is probable the dumbest thing I've ever heard, she is the Democrats only chance, the republicans will crucify Obama!

Outspoken Hillary Fan (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 8:47 PM)

For the record, Barack Obama, is not Muslim. He belongs to the United Church of Christ, as evidenced on every official location (his website, Facebook, Myspace, campaign ads, etc) He did attend a Muslim school in Indonesia briefly, but only while he was younger. If anything, his diversity in not only race but religious knowledge will help this country. Although we have only elected white, male Christians in the last 225 years, this nation was never intended to be founded on the principles of religion. Once again, Obama is a Christian, and although his middle name is coincidentally Hussein, he is not affilitated with the religion of Islam, and is no way an extremist or terrorist.

Jacob, Madison, WI (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 8:48 PM)

the whole idea that Obama really 'won' because he won more counties means nothing, the actual VOTE tally determines the real winner, so what if he won more counties, look at where Hillary was clearly stronger, the area the CLEARLY mattered when you really get down to the nitty gritty, Hillary has a strong lead right now in terms of pledged and super delegates with a total of 210 combined, Obama on the other hand only has 123 total delegates (pledged and super combined) in the end, whoever will win needs 2,025 delegates to represent and vote for them at the convention. looks to me like Hillary is on the right path to reaching that number, lets not forget nationwide, she leads by almost 20 points going into super Tuesday Feb.5th thats going to be a tough margin to make up for Obama's sake. don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Hillary is a shoe in, but lets face it, the most commonly used catch phrase in terms of the Clinton's is 'never count a Clinton out' and Hillary is proving that statement correct, contest after contest.

Tom, st.paul, mn (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 8:49 PM)

I have read the rules of commenting on here. For some reason, they were not upheld. When someone makes a statement about either Clinton or Obama, and someone does not agree, well, they should not use that person as in their statement. Just state what you feel, which is the American way. Not the Christian, not the Muslim, not the Catholic, THE AMERICAN WAY. I have not decided whom to vote for, I wish that the best candidate for our, OUR, country be nominated and win the election. But honestly, how can you know at this point, I have not heard enough facts, just statements about what the candidates think that American people want to hear. I have not seen the candidates back up what they are saying. Everyone should take a good hard look at what each person has honestly done, DONE, not said they will do, to help the country and its people.

Barbie, Decatur, Illinois (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 8:49 PM)

Obama is not running “Clean campaign”. He is attacking Hillary everywhere he could.
He didn’t even show up to make speech at Nevada after caucuses, because his last speech in NH (supposed to be victory and rewriting very quickly) was horrible. Now Obama’s camping just releases statement in attempt to steal victory from Hillary. He has nothing to say. I can not wait till Monday debate. He is so bad at answering specific questions.

Hillary for President!!!

Viki, Portland, Oregon (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 8:50 PM)

Jane, Paris, Tennessee, you are incorrect. Obama is not Muslim, he is a Christian (check offical news sources, instead of blogs and instead of hate propaganda. Also check Obama's offical website). In fact Obama is a member of the TRINTIY United Church of Christ! Just as the United Church of Christ was formed by uniting several Christian denominations into one much larger Christian denomination, Obama has the ability to unite many Democrats, many Independents, and some Republicans into one much learger political group. Just as people spoke of the Reagan Democrats which joined with the Republican Party during the Reagan years, if Obama becomes President people will be speaking of the Obama Republicans which will be joined with the Democratic Party during the Obama presidency years. Go Obama Go! Yes we can bring about real change we can believe in!

Gavin Young, Beaverton, Oregon (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 8:51 PM)

It is a sad day to see Democrats behaving like Republicans!!!

The Clinton camp is showing an increasingly bad side now that there are candidates showing a resolve to campaign against the first Lady who it appears has taken a distaste to Mr. Obamas popularity. As an Democrat "independent" hoping to vote for someone who can move our country away from the disaster of the past 8 years I'd like to less of the gameshow media hoopla and give all the states their right to participate.

Dean M. Sacramento CA. (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 8:52 PM)

Next >>

SEND A COMMENT

PLEASE READ: All comments must be approved before appearing in the thread; time and space constraints prevent all comments from appearing. We will only approve comments that are directly related to the blog, use appropriate language and are not attacking the comments of others.

Message (please, no HTML tags. Web addresses will be hyperlinked):

Your name, city and state (John Doe, Seattle, Wash.):

Your e-mail address (jdoe@msnbc.com):

Your website (it's okay if you don't have one):

Remember me? (We'll keep it private) Remember me?

TRACKBACKS

Trackbacks are links to weblogs that reference this post. Like comments, trackbacks do not appear until approved by us. The trackback URL for this post is: http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/trackback.aspx?PostID=592247