Some clarity on those NV delegates

Posted: Saturday, January 19, 2008 9:33 PM by Mark Murray
Filed Under: Democrats

From NBC's Mark Murray
After the Obama campaign pointed out it had won more pledged delegates than Clinton did -- which the AP and NBC News later backed up -- the Nevada Democratic Party issued this statement: "Just like in Iowa what was awarded today were delegates to the County Convention. No national convention delegates were awarded. The calculations of national convention delegates being circulated are based upon an assumption that delegate preferences will remain the same between now and April 2008."

The Clinton campaign then issued something similar, saying: "The Obama campaign is wrong. Delegates for the national convention will not be determined until April 19."

But hold on, folks. The Nevada Democratic Party just issued this clarification (emphasis is ours): "No national convention delegates were awarded. That said, if the delegate preferences remain unchanged between now and April 2008, the calculations of national convention delegates being circulated by the Associated Press are correct. We look forward to our county and state conventions where we will choose the delegates for the nominee that Nevadans support."

What does this mean? It looks like the Obama camp's math (as well as the AP's and NBC's) is correct.

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Comments

MSNBC needs to stop being biased towards Obama. Hillary won the state!

john, la (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 9:40 PM)

2+2= CLINTON WIN ! hillaryclinton.com

Z (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 9:43 PM)

On Jan. 19, party caucuses meet in each precinct to choose delegates to county conventions. The delegates selected are not bound to any candidate. At the county conventions on Feb. 23, delegates to the state convention are chosen. They are not bound to any candidate. The state convention is April 18-20, during which delegates choose 25 of the 33 delegates to the national convention. Sixteen of the 25 delegates are allocated proportionally to presidential candidates based on the support for the candidates in each of the state’s three Congressional districts. Nine delegates are allocated to candidates based on the support among all of the delegates attending the convention. The remaining eight unpledged delegates are chosen from party leaders.

Adam Gillund, Hendricks, MN (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 9:48 PM)

The math was neither correct NOR incorrect, because no delegates have been awarded yet. Hillary gets the WIN in Nevada, and the Obama camp can stop trying to steal her WINNING headline! The fact that Hillary WON the state should NOT be undermined because of feelings of bitterness in Obama Land! Hillary '08

Cathy, Upstate NY (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 9:48 PM)

ap posted the delegate count

OBAMA 13
CLINTON 12

(associated press --- is NOT a wholly owned subsidiary of msnbc)

winnie (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 9:49 PM)

ps. Get your facts straight MSNBC, hillary won the most super delegates! Her count is 210 while obamas is 123; therefore, she has the most delegates so far!

john, la (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 9:49 PM)

tee hee hee!

Like I keep telling "the Clintons" and their supporters - you reap what you sow - EVERYTIME! :)

Nashville_fan (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 9:50 PM)

Howard Wolfson said...It's all about delegate count baby! Ahhh....what's the matter Clintonites...this revelation stealing a bit of your thunder, huh? As far as getting the headlines out of this...who knows...we just might be sharing them now. ON TO SOUTH CAROLINA.
BARACK THE VOTE!!!!

Steven, KDH, N.C. (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 9:52 PM)

Yes, Hillary won Nevada. But the Clinton campaign has been saying for weeks that the accumulation of delegates is more important than winning states. So after next week's win in South Carolina, Obama will be in the lead.

Charlie K., Bronx, NY (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 9:52 PM)

Obama won Nevada! Did you report "Gore Wins!" in 2000 after all the votes were counted because he was ahead in the popular vote?
"Obama Wins Nevada!" should be the headline the same way it was, "Bush Wins" in 2000 for the presidency. Yes with a foot note that he lost the popular vote, but in both instances the popular vote should not be the lead. Why the double standard?
This is a race for delegates. Your reporting will create your self fulfilling story line (Since N.H. a Clinton come back)
Winning a tie in the race for delegates in New Hampshire with popular vote difference of 2.9% in a state he was trailing by 20% in become a "upset" for Clinton.

Graham Poor (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 9:54 PM)

I bet you Hillary won ! Vegas baby, what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. hillaryclinton.com

Z (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 9:55 PM)

Charlie, who cares about SC? The winners are technically chosen after NY and Cali, which both happen to be Hillary states...Obama wont win.

John, la (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 9:55 PM)

Obama won! Make your voice heard for Barack at:

http://barackforpresident08.blogspot.com/

facemn (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 9:57 PM)

Win or lose. Hillary threatens to split the Democratic party beyond repair. Both of her wins in NH and Nevada were close and in both cases Barack had closed in from 20 pt. deficits. We'll see how things progress. But, I guarantee that if Hillary and Bill are to force their way to the nomination the result will be a fractured Democratic Party, a third party run (by Bloomberg) and a loss for the Dems in Congress and for the White House.

My wife points out that if there is a bright spot in this prediction it would have to be the end of the Clinton machine. Although I welcome that, I still wish that the entire bastion of anti-Hillary forces would unite to stop the status quo politics of the nineties. Obama is the future; on to South Carolina!
Obama '08

Mitchell Feldman, Vestal, NY (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 9:57 PM)

You should've emphasized this sentence: "We look forward to our county and state conventions where we will choose the delegates for the nominee that Nevadans support."

HELLO. NEVADANS SUPPORTED HILLARY CLINTON. Stop taking away her well-deserved win. She won the popular vote so the delegates will likely go to her.

ClassyChic, Michigan (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 9:58 PM)

So - Here I am watching Hannity on Fox - And it came to me - If anyone wants to see Sean Hannity jump out of a window nominate McCain and Clinton

Frank Caponi, Fort lauderdale, FL. (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 9:59 PM)

Hold on a minute Cathy--Howard Wolfson said that this is a delegate war and that is all that matters. So by the Clinton campaigns own guideline this is a win for Obama!!

lewis, cincinnati, ohio (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 9:59 PM)

Superdelegates are not locked in to any candidate. They do not feel the same pressure normal delegates do and have the option of switching last minute if it suits them. And they usually will if their seat at the convention is in jeopardy for choosing the wrong candidate. That's why you don't hear too much from Superdelegates until usually after Super Tuesday. It was Hillary's Superdelegates that were being called after Iowa to reassure them and make sure they weren't thinking of switching.

And I have to know...Do Hillary supporters really think we're all gonna just rally around Hill IF she gets the nomination? It really is something you should start thinking about. It may not be Hillary's fault in general, but that is the way it is. Now if all you're trying to do is say a woman can win the Dem. nomination....fine. But even you have to realize that she will not unite our party, let alone the country afterwards. Ladies...you might not like to believe it, but it's true.

Steven, KDH, N.C. (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 10:05 PM)

Hot damn, that's great... Go Obama!

James, Wichita, KS (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 10:12 PM)

I guess the actual workers in the culinary union were brave enough to pick their own personal choice, which should be their decision anyway. The polls had Obama ahead here again. It seems not too many showed up, but you have to hand it to Hillary, she pulled another one out. I say that Obama may win SC, but after that he will be done.

Lynette, NYC (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 10:16 PM)

Independents determine who WINS the white House.

This delegate count issue relates to the general.

In 2004, Nevada was considered a swing state. It was won by President Bush by a margin of 2.6%. A mere 21,000 votes out of more than 537,000.

Clark County, home of Las Vegas and the most populous county of the state, went for John Kerry. But Kerry lost the state.

Clinton won the caucus exactly how Kerry lost the state in the general election: winning the biggest (de facto Democrat) county but losing statewide.

If Kerry had taken any of the three next-largest counties, the DEMs would have won Nevada in 2004.

So how did Hillary do in these 3 counties Kerry lost?

Washoe: Obama 50%, Clinton 41%, Edwards 9%
Douglas: Obama 50%, Clinton 43%, Edwards 8%
Elko: Obama 63%, Clinton 31%, Edwards 6%

Obama won all 3 comfortably.

Hillary has the Kerry formula, win the biggest city/county lose the state in the general.

Obama would win Las Vegas in the general because that’s where the democrats are. But Obama’s strength in the next 3 largest counties shows he has the best chance to win Nevada in a general election.

Hillary would not win the state. Her performance would likely be just like Kerry’s and just like this election today.. This is the sad fact that will play out across the nation in my opinion. States like Missouri, Florida, Colorodo, Nevada, and Ohio all remain in peril in the general with Clinton. All these stes have the big county versus statewide effect and are closely split DEM/REP.

In these states you’ll need to get votes where Obama is getting them and Clinton is not. And if Hillary alienates the Black vote, (which she has already done so far) the DEMS could actually go backwards compared to Kerry in a general election. States barely won by Kerry like Wisconsin (Milwaukee) , and Pennylvania (Philly) might even fall if the Black vote is not enthusiastic for Clinton.

I believe Obama could win a general election. I doubt Clinton can. But can Obama win the nomination…not with the numbers he’s getting from unions, women and Hispanics. Her combination of women, unions and hispanics will get her the most delagates and the nomination. His chance is if Edwards cedes his MEN to Obama else it’s Hillary. And I’ll hope Hillary/Obama if she wants to win the general.

Toni C (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 10:17 PM)

John, you say NY is a Hillary state. Well, not if I (and thousands of other Obama activists) can help it. The Daily News reported last week that Hillary's lead in NY is slipping away. If Barack wins big in SC, it will have a serious impact on her position in NY. And if Hillary isn't able to take her "home" (ha ha) state by wide margins in the primary, she may as well pack it in.

Charlie K., Bronx, NY (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 10:18 PM)

OBAMA has my vote!!

Thee who wins the most delegates, wins the state!, its just that simple..

OBAMA 08!!!!!!!!

Jason (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 10:23 PM)

DEWEY BEATS TRUMAN!!!
Yep.
So much for the vaunted vast right wing conspiracy that is the modern media and its hatred of the Clinton's.
Today's media circus far outstrips the believed once in a lifetime failure of the mass media in New Hampshire.
Time to see if the national media grant equal time to the campaign of Mr. Obama in what will go down in history as one of the most unethical performances ever witnessed in American political life.
There is one thing for certain.
All we will hear from the Hillary campaign is how bad the caucus system is, but nary a word of congratulation to the campaign of Mr. Obama for demonstrating the ability to win in the majority of districts in the state of Nevada.
I wonder if the Hillary campaign will say the same things when it comes to California and its method of awarding delegates on a proportional basis as is done in Nevada.

P. Walker, Memphis, TN (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 10:29 PM)

Charlie, you are forgetting that african-americans are not the only ones in NY. Hispanics are a large percentage of NY and they will vote for Hillary.

John, la (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 10:37 PM)

Honestly. Why is everyone so afraid of the Clinton's. The rules are the rules. If Obama won the delegates-he won the delegates. Ted Kennedy and Rahm Emmanuel have called Bill and told him to calm down (Newsweek article). I still think he going to implode before this is all over, but why destroy a sure Democratic victory by tearing the party to shreds. If by some stretch Hillary gets the nomination, but African Americans in particular, Independents and others refuse to participate in the general because of the behavior and tactics of the Clinton's what's the point?

RealB.G. (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 10:43 PM)

If a candidate wins the caucus they call it a win.
Hillary won by 6%.

When Obama won in Iowa by a neck in neck "delegate" vote, Clinton classily conceded to Obama in a speech.

WHERE WAS OBAMA'S CONCESSION SPEECH?????

Make him look like a poor loser with not enough guts to concede his 6% loss to Hillary.

Obama is NOT a classy guy...not presidental material...He proved it today.

Sam (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 10:46 PM)

I agree that there will be no democratic swell around HRC. If she wins I just might have to vote GOP in NOV. Help me... and Vote Obama!

K8 (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 10:50 PM)

Delegate scoreboard: Obama 13, Hillary 12. Obama won because he did better in rural areas. That is a little thing known as "the name of the game". The popular vote is meaningless. I seem to remember a one Al Gore running into this issue ...

Susan (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 10:50 PM)

Leading Democrats To Bill Clinton: Pipe Down
Prominent Democrats are upset with the aggressive role that Bill Clinton is playing in the 2008 campaign, a role they believe is inappropriate for a former president and the titular head of the Democratic Party. In recent weeks, Sen. Edward Kennedy and Rep. Rahm Emanuel, both currently neutral in the Democratic contest, have told their old friend heatedly on the phone that he needs to change his tone and stop attacking Sen. Barack Obama, according to two sources familiar with the conversations who asked for anonymity because of their sensitive nature. Clinton, Kennedy and Emanuel all declined to comment.

When the former president called Kennedy, the Massachusetts Democrat gave Clinton an earful, telling him that he bore some blame for the injection of race into the contest. In any event, both Hillary and Obama made peace on the race issue at the Las Vegas debate. The Clinton camp now fears that Kennedy is leaning toward Obama, according to the Clinton source, though Kennedy's office says he is making no endorsement "at this time."

Clinton aides admit the boss sometimes goes off script. Obama officials say this itself should be a campaign issue. Greg Craig, who coordinated Clinton's impeachment defense in 1998 and is now a senior Obama adviser, argues that "recent events raise the question: if Hillary's campaign can't control Bill, whether Hillary's White House could."

There is little precedent for a former president's engaging in intra-party attacks. In 1960, Harry Truman criticized the idea of a Roman Catholic president and tried briefly to stop John F. Kennedy's nomination. "I urge you to be patient," he told JFK publicly. But in 2000, former president George Bush declined to attack his son's GOP primary opponent, John McCain.

Clinton is undeterred by the criticism and will likely keep hammering Obama if he thinks it helps Hillary. "History will judge the impact on the Clinton legacy, not daily or weekly political reporters," says Matt McKenna, Bill Clinton's press secretary.

PLB (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 10:53 PM)

I'm a Hillary Clinton supporter, but if Obama becomes the Democratic nominee, I'll vote for him. We need to look at the big picture and not be poor sports. There's too much at stake to hold a grudge. We Democrats have to stick together to defeat the Republicans.

goldenstate (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 11:00 PM)

Clintons = 90s. Obama is NOW!
Stop the Billary Machine.
Obama is holding his own with a past president out bad-mouthing him on behalf of his wife.

Great job Obama. Keep up the good work.

I'm a physician and Obama still has my vote!
Go Obama!

Dr. Ashley, Chicago, IL (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 11:04 PM)

John, Ia-

The hispanics in NY are black latinos/latinas. They are for the most part from Puerto Rico (and other Caribbean islands), not Mexico; so don't expect the same kind of Clinton love over Obama. Not happening.

Michael's Mom (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 11:08 PM)

He did not lose, that is why.

JC, Las Vegas, NV (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 11:13 PM)

When Obama won Iowa by a delegate to two, he gave a barn burner, accepting the "Democratic presidendial nominee at the convention" acceptance speech not a speech of the winner of some Iowans with a delegate or two ahead of Clinton speech.

Channeling Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. with his speech cadence in "I Have a Dream" Obama said, "They saaaaid. They saaaid. They saaaaid that this day would never come. They saaaid our sights were set too high...but on this January night, at this DEFINING moment in history, you have done what the cynic said we couldn't do."

Who is "they"? Who said Obama's sights were set too high and that that day would not come?

Certainly no one in Barack Obama's GOLDEN black experience as a star basketball player in culturally diverse Hawaii, as the first black person to be the coveted editor of The HARVARD Law Review, as a lawyer in Chicago as well as his wife, as a ILL State Senator, US Senator, or as the owner of a multi million dollar house in an "uppity" section of Chicago.

Hillary Clinton gave a concession speech after Iowa and congratulated Obama.

So where was Barack Obama today? Giving a concession speech to Hillary's 6% win in Nevada.

NO! NO! Obama was no where to be seen!!!!!!!!!!

disgusted (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 11:14 PM)

All of you are NUTS, if you're willing to put the top office in the hands of a man with less than 2 years of experience in public service. Obama fans need to be committed to a mental institution, we as Americans need to think with our true hearts. To be lead around by the fantasy that a very well spoken young fellow with very good intensions, but with very little experience is irresponsible.I believe that in a few years he will be the best choice but he needs to be seasoned. Ask yourself, would you want a man with little experience running you're company? If you think he has potential, you would season him for a few years and then I'll even vote for him but for now I have to much loss at this time. I can't lose anymore, Bush has killed my hopes. Bill did right by me, hopefully Hillary will do as well or better.

Go Hillary 08

JoeyB Pittsburgh Pa. (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 11:17 PM)

JoeyB Pittsburgh Pa. (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 11:20 PM)

Toni C., you gave a well thought out argument. However, it is quite flawed. Your statement that since he won those three counties by a comfortable margin would mean he would win the state is wishful thinking at best. You seem to be forgetting that this was voting amongst Democrats within their own party. There were no Republicans on the ticket to make your arguments stand up. Most Democrats would chose to vote Democratic in the general election anyway, regardless of who the candidate ends up being, for the sake of their party being in power. So, at this point there is no way to gauge what would happen depending on which Democrat (and Republican) ends up on the final ticket. It's just pure speculation at this point.

Tiffany Portland, Oregon (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 11:21 PM)

The nature of this game is delegate count. Obama won the delegate count. Obama wins Nevada!

Clinton supportors need to realize that Hillary Clinton will never win a general election. I am a life long democrat and I used to have a lot of respect for both Bill and Hillary Clinton, but no more. Not after watching them sic their serigates on Obama and play the race card. Not when I watch Hillary cry or spill her guts about the Monica Lewinsky fiasco on national tv. If you ask me, she is a vote whore. She will do anything for votes. And watching Bill whine and cry when things are not going well for the campaign, is not much better. If she is the nominee, I will write in Barack Obama on the ballot. No way I will vote for her. Belive me, I am not the only one who feels this way.

A vote for Hillary is a vote for the republican party.

Bruce Willis seattle washington (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 11:27 PM)

Disgusted is right. Obama's "black experience" is a hell of a lot different than MY black experience.

I'm sick of him actin like he is one of us. He is NOT. He has NO idea what it is like to grow up in the inner city where no one got to go to Harvard. Hell, most didn't even get out of high school. Don't see many lawyers who married lawyers among the people I grew up with. And none of us are Senators or live in big fancy houses.

We work like dogs for every penny we can scrap together.

He don't know what the hell we've lived thru.
Obama is not one of us.

I never support or vote for Obama.

Mr. Jermaine Johnson (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 11:36 PM)

Bruce Willis Seattle, WA,
Son, you need help, medication or at the least intervention.

Where do you get your information...obviously THE NATIONAL ENQUIRER...that fact base intellectual magazine that you rely on!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jay (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 11:39 PM)

Hillary folks, get your facts straight. Hillary only has 7 years experience as an elected official.

OBAMA HAS 11 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE AS AN ELECTED OFFICIAL.

Wake up, the Clintons will sell-out, lie, steal and do what ever it takes to win the White House.

DO YOU REALLY WANT SOMEONE SO SELFISH AND SELF CENTERED TO BE RUNNING OUR COUYNTRY?

AMERICA THINK BEFORE YOU VOTE.

MS,NY (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 11:45 PM)

PLB-
It would indeed be nice if Bill Clinton would pipe down.
Unfortunatly, Bill looked at Hillary's campaign on December 28, 2007 and decided that after holding a 33% lead she was in grave danger of loosing; Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada & South Carolina and decided then & there that if Hillary were to have a chance at regaining the mojo she had prior to that time he would need to take a direct role in her campaign in order to save it from implosion.
He has done this and has helped Hillary save New Hampshire by 3% when she was up by 23% and retain the popular vote in Clark County, Nevada after being up by 37% only to loose the delegate count because she could not muster support outside of Las Vegas.
Bill knows full well that Hillary's swing in South Carolina from +25% to -9% could spell big trouble if this tide is not stemed, and quickly.
Already, in head to head match ups with the republican candidates Mr. Obama polls far better than Hilary against every potential opponet. Further, Hillary's support nationally among democrats has fallen from +33% to +8%.
Unfortunately, because of the numbers and the threat that Mr. Obama poses to Hillary's campaign the last thing in this world Bill would do now is trust Hillary's campaign, and what he believes are the necessary bare knuckled tactics, to any other person.
Bill has only started.

P. walker (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 11:46 PM)

Barack Obama made it look like he is a sore loser.Why did he take off for his home when it was obvious he was not going to win the caucus in Nevada today with out giving a speech to THANK those who worked so hard for him in our state?

He should of given a concession speech to Hillary no matter how bad he hates her. It's the manly thing to do. Or else he looks like poor sport.

If I had it to do all over again I'd never work so hard for him . He does not appreciate what we done for him even if we did not win the caucus. He should of acted like he understood all the work we done.

If that is how he treats the little people inhis camapign then I'm not sure he would do all he says if he were president.

Jamie (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 11:49 PM)

She won Vegas (Clark COunty)

Obama won the whole friggin' state minus that county.

Obama 13, Billary 12.

Yeah!

Life's a bitch; don't vote for one.

RobK, Seattle, Wash. (Sent Saturday, January 19, 2008 11:50 PM)

To JoeyB re: years of experience and leadership ability, check out these articles:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ari-emanuel/the-curious-math-of-hilla_b_82028.html

http://quartz.he.net/~beyondch/news/nucleus/plugins/print/print.php?itemid=5262

Not to mention, the dirty tactics of HRC at caucus locations in NV today:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/19/162953/644/790/439573

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/19/195619/871/634/439737

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/19/201119/655/611/439744

LB, Harvey, LA (Sent Sunday, January 20, 2008 12:01 AM)

VOTE DEMOCRAT!!!

Lynette, NYC (Sent Sunday, January 20, 2008 12:02 AM)

The elections and caucuses are, unfortunately, relatively meaningless. Until we do away with the electoral college and actually allow every citizen's vote to count EQUALLY all we can do is sit back and wait. We can suggest what our wishes are, but the 2000 election proves that our votes just don't mean anything. Even in the primaries there are delegates to be assigned that are not committed until the Convention. Doesn't that make you all feel important?

Rick, Fort Lauderdale, FL (Sent Sunday, January 20, 2008 12:10 AM)

THE TWO CLINTONS PLAY DIRTY IN NEVADA. THE RACE, GENDER, AND ETHNICITY BAITING BY THE TWO CLINTONS NOW INCLUDES VOTE SUPPRESSING.

THE NYT WILL NOT COVER IT.

WILL MSNBC/FIRST READ/HARDBALL COVER IT?

READ HERE:

http://dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/1/19/162953/644/790/439573

Eorse, St. Louis (Sent Sunday, January 20, 2008 12:10 AM)

Obama needs to step aside for the sake of the Democratic Party. His future is bright- let him gain some experience and further define himself(maybe if he plays his cards right he can be Hill's Veep). The crisis our country is in demands proven leadership- and that is Hillary Clinton.

Maggie Porter, Liitle Rock, Arkansas (Sent Sunday, January 20, 2008 12:21 AM)

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