ABOUT FIRST READ

First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



Last night's debate

Posted: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 9:15 AM by Mark Murray

The Columbia State's headline: “Democratic debate: At each other's throats.”
Subhead: “Clinton, Obama in bitter debate as primary looms.” “At times the debate, held at the Palace Theatre, threatened to spin out of control as the smoldering dispute between Obama and the Clintons — both Hillary and former President Bill Clinton — flared into public view.”

The New York Times writes, “In the most intense and personal exchange of the presidential campaign, Senators Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama assailed each other’s integrity and voting records during a televised debate on Monday in South Carolina, the site of a critical primary in five days. If the debate was full of memorable moments — Mrs. Clinton accusing Mr. Obama of associating with a ‘slum landlord,’ Mr. Obama saying he felt as if he were running against both Hillary and Bill Clinton, the two candidates talking over each other — the totality of the attacks also laid bare the ill will and competitive ferocity that has been simmering between them for weeks.”

The Washington Post: "In the debate, Clinton and Obama offered perhaps the most pointed criticisms of one another in the campaign. Obama went after Clinton during a discussion on economic stimulus by recalling his years as a community organizer in Chicago, adding: ‘While I was working on those streets watching those folks see their jobs shift overseas, you were a corporate lawyer sitting on the board at Wal-Mart.’ And he brought up Bill Clinton's campaign surrogate role by chiding, I can't tell who I'm running against sometimes.’”

The Washington Post’s Dan Balz adds in a separate piece, "The clash between Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton Monday night was a debate long waiting to happen, and at the heart of it was the man who was not on stage: former president Bill Clinton. Since Obama's victory in Iowa, the Clintons have responded with a methodically aggressive campaign. With his own campaign now on the defensive, Obama came to Monday's debate determined to confront his principal rival for the Democratic presidential nomination with a cry of foul. The result was the most heated and acrimonious exchange of the long race." More on Bill: "But for now it is partly about Bill Clinton. He has emerged as more than his wife's chief surrogate. He is playing a role almost akin to that of a vice presidential candidate in a general election, leading the charge against the other party's nominee."

The Los Angeles Times makes this good point: "The harshness of their exchanges was an odd coda to a day in which the Democrats paid tribute to the nonviolent movement propelled by the late Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., whose birthday was celebrated Monday."

The Boston Globe: “Obama, Clinton trade blows in S.C.” The Globe described last night’s debate as a “verbal brawl” and that “at one point, the rhetorical fisticuffs devolved into political mudslinging.”

The New York Post: “Barack vs. Hill: It’s war.” Subhead: Dems in biggest slugfest of campaign.”

Just minutes after finishing the most contentious Democratic debate of the nominating season, Obama told supporters that a win in South Carolina would mean he would go into Super Tuesday tied up with Clinton, NBC’s Mark Hudspeth notes. "If we win South Carolina, now it's two all. She's got two and we got two," he said.

Obama surrogate US Rep. Jesse Jackson, Jr. had a lot to say after the MLK day debate last night, NBC/NJ’s Athena Jones report. He talked about how the campaign would respond to attacks by President Clinton; the importance of having a candidate who could attract Democrats, Republicans and independents; dancing; and other issues. On Bill Clinton: "Now there's a candidate in the process who's not a candidate in the process and it's the former president of the United States and so you have the First Lady, who's able to stay on, former Sen. Clinton, who's able to stay on message, while we're responding to distortions of our record from this enormous world historical figure, the president.  We're gonna handle those messages from the former president. We are going to deal with them so our candidate can stay on message."
 
Jackson talked about the need to reduce the vitriol within the party during this primary season and the importance of a strategy to attract Republicans and independents so that Democrats could win the White House and a "governable majority" in Congress. He said only Obama could beat McCain or any other Republican that might emerge.

On whether it will get nastier before it gets better: "Look out for the infamous code words of American politics. I mean, we've seen them all through presidential campaigns. ‘Segregation’ was a code word, ‘integration’ was a code word, ‘bussing’ was a code word. ‘Affirmative action’ in campaigns of the past were all code words. Now we have new code words that are emerging: ‘Too young,’ ‘too inexperienced’ -- that's a code word for ‘unqualified.’ ‘Too articulate,’ ‘too charismatic,’ ‘roll of the dice,’ ‘shucking and jiving,’ when none of that has taken place," Jackson said. "These are code words to build images in the minds of the American people about a particular candidate, could be male, could be female, and the impossibility of their capacity to get elected president. We have to reject these code words."

MAIN PAGE

Email this EMAIL THIS

Comments

Tremendous insight JJJ!  Take it to the Clintons for Americans' sake!
I have a friend who moved to Mpls 5 years ago and, She won't vote for Obama. I found this interesting that she didn't feel he helped her in anyway.  Of course now knowing he likes to vote present I understand. GO CLINTON OR EDWARDS
The anti Clinton folks are out full force with lies and distortions against them. The Clintons are the toughest and smartest politicians who will be able to stand up to the rightwing nuts and swiftboaters. Obama is just another nicey, nicey guy who will be crucified by the repubs and dems will lose yet again if he gets the nomination.
If by "methodically aggressive", you mean "telling outright lies", then yes, the Clintoons are being "methodically aggressive".
I have a friend who moved to Mpls 5 years ago and, She won't vote for Obama. I found this interesting that she didn't feel he helped her in anyway.  Of course now knowing he likes to vote present I understand. GO CLINTON OR EDWARDS

Melissa,Mpls (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 9:31 AM)

Are you saying you don't think you can find one person who doesn't feel they were helped at all by Senator Clinton? Or Senator Edwards? Or any other politician ever elected to office? Sounds like a rather weak justification for the fact you don't want to vote for Obama in the first place.
The idea of a shadow presidency is extremely troubling. It is obvious that Bill Clinton would be the real power with Hillary just used as a prop of his. Bill Clinton lied to us many, many times when he was President. Can you imagine how much he'd lie to us as a shadow President?
Obama got it right during the debate.  The Clintons are not being factually accurate and truthful.  This type of politics has got to end.  We must move beyond partisan postering and fighting.  Obama is our only hope.
Melissa - Barack Obama was a state Senator in Illinois and is the US Senator from Illinois, not Minessota, which should explain why he was not able to represent the constituents of Minneapolis.

Chris - If you could say that before about Obama, you certainly can't after last night's debate; he knocked Hillary's head off when she attacked him.
Chris says:
The anti Clinton folks are out full force with lies and distortions against them.

Dear Chris,
Bill and Hillary don't need anyone's help when it comes to distorting the truth.
To melissa,Mpls I find it odd that you two think Clinton or Edwards will be better for the country. Do you two want another Clinton in the White House? Whats wrong with you two? Clinton has done nothing for this country and she sure in the hell has not helped the American People. She wants to be the first female women in the White house. Thats her claim to fame. She is over bearing, a liar and not what she appears to be. Any woman who is supposed to be this strong person has to have her husband to defend her is not a leader. You will have him putting her in a spot alot for no reason. She is not the leader of the free world. Can't wait to watch the republicans rip her to shreads in the general elections.
Obama really showed the American people that he can stand up to the Clinton's.  The media, press, and supporters on Hillary are saying that Obama was not so nice last evening.  He has the right to stand up to the Clinton's, and prove to America that he would be the better choice for president.  The clinton's really showed their true colors.  Obama is clearly for all "Americans", no matter what your race is.  He does not feed in to racism. Go Obama!
It's a shame that Obama's observation on Reagan and the subsequent out of context attack on him reveal a simple truth about this campaign:

Partisan politics over basic intelligence; zealotry over thought.

Being a president should be about embracing good ideas for the benefit of all Americans NOT pushing partisan ideology.

FACT CHECK: Obama, His Contributor Rezko, the Slum Landlord Business

by truthteller2007, Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 01:10:49 AM EST

Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton engaged in a heated exchange over Obama's work for a certain Rezko during tonight's CNN-Congressional Black Caucus debate.  An assessment of their statements reveals that Barack Obama misrepresented the work he performed for Rezko, who Hillary Clinton correctly characterized as a "slum landlord" who is also one of Barack Obama's "contributors."  Clinton, however, neglected to mention that Rezko is presently under federal indictment for fraudulent schemes involving government officials and government funds.  Because this fact check is limited to statements uttered during the debate, it will not explore Rezko's involvement in the questionable scheme whereby Obama purchased his Chicago mansion.
Why can't the MSM get it right?  Obama wasn't talking over Clinton.  He waited politely for her to finish.  When it was his turn to speak, SHE TALKED OVER HIM, not the other way around.  She is a rude, nasty person.  I considered voting for her at one time.  I will not do so now.  If she is the Democratic candidate, I may not vote at all.  Or I may pray for an independent candidate to run.  Her performance last night was shameful.
We've got an economy in real trouble.  John Edwards saw this months ago and began talking about it.  After last night's debate do we really want Hillary of Barack at the helm?  And for that matter--- could their behavior which is so damaging disable Democrats from winning the general election?  How could they think last night's debate was a chance to settle scores?  Shouldn't they have spent the time talking about what they'll do for Americans who face such tough challenges these days?  Save the opposition research for press releases not for prime time television.  
TAKE ANOTHER LOOK AT JOHN EDWARDS.
I am going to vote for Obama, because I can see through the smoke screen that the Clintons are putting up.  Hillary Clinton appears to have a sense of entitlement and is riding on her husbands coat tails.
I'm what you could call an "OBAMA REPUBLICAN".  If he wins the nomination, then I'll vote Democrat this year.

If Hillary gets it, I'll just stay home.

I'm not sure Obama and Edwards won as much as it was apparent Hillary lost.  It is hard to crawl off a broom and look presidential.  She reinforced her status as Bill's surregate with her somewhat hysterical "He's not here...".  Of course he was not there; it would be illegal, and besides I'm fairly sure he was probably tired after spending days alternating between race-baiting and pandering to the humble masses.  I'm sure his presence and actions were in part responsible for Atlanta's Black ministers' endorsement of Huckabee.  

 If Bill stays out there stumping around until November there will be no need for us to even field a candidate, any republican would win.  I think African-Americans (and women) have finally relized we do not owe 'Mr. Bill' another vote.  He did nothing for us before and there ain't no reason to think he's gonna let his missus do different.

 Hillary, you defended Bill far beyond reasonability when he was sporting around with his women and now you are defending him while he's tearing out the heart of the party.  Get it together girl.  You let him make you the fool once and now you are doing it again.  Anybody as easily used as you is not presidential but pathetic.
The only 'presidential' candidate last night on that stage was Barack Obama.  He handled Clinton magnificently, who acted like a desperate cat.  Obama threw it at her and caught it back and threw it back again.  It's about time, and it was terrific!  Go Obama!  OBAMA '08!!!!
As much as we would like the issues to determine the eventual nominee it really appears that personality IS the determining factor as to which candidate would best be able to unite the country and successfully push through a progressive agenda. It is becoming more apparent that that candidate would be Barack Obama. Hillary (with substantial help from Bill) has taken on the familiar role of being the divider while Obama has tried to reach out to a wider audience. That was never more apparrent than in last night's debate. John Edwards once again showed his superior debating skills but has spent too much of his campaign speaking about the "two America's", which by definition is a devisive issue. With the emergence of Bill Clinton as the "bad cop" the public is reminded once again of the negatives of the first Clinton administration, and what the future hold for a second. I think that Obama appeared more presidential than Hillary last night and I am getting closer to deciding who I will vote for in next week's Florida primary. Regardless of who is the eventual nominee I will support the Democrat in the general election, but I am really getting turned off by the Clinton campaign, especially Bill's comments, as I fear this could seriously hurt her chances to win in November. Kudos to Obama for standing up against the Clinton attack machine last night.    
People need to be mindful of all the political games that are played--the Clintons are not new to the game. It is a strategy to put Bill out front in an attempt to gain votes for HRC. We must keep in mind that Bill is NOT a candidate--just playing one on TV :-}. The strategy is to pull as many votes from Barack as possible. IF and I do mean IF HRC wins--the Republicans are going to have a field day with her and Bill. I do believe that he would be forced to play a much lesser role at that stage.  Have no misconceptions, Bill is out front and center to divide the African-American vote. BE smart, a vote for Hiliary is not a vote for Bill.
Once again the MSM is trying to distort what happened in the debate.  Obama called the Clintons out for all the lies they have been telling and challenged them to stick to the issues that Americans care about.

Bill and Hillary are an embarrassment to American politics.  And Edwards was discraceful in joining in on the present votes criticism.  This has long been documented as standard practice and tactics in the Illinois legislature.  I mean don't these people read any news.  Out of 4000 times he voted present 130 times due to legal issues with the bill and as part of a Democratic endorsed strategy.  Continuing this debunked critcism is typical of the desperate mud the Clinton's have been slinging, but I thought John Edwards was a better man than that.

In summary, Obama responded to the slander and swiftboating the Clintons have been engaged in.  Illuminating the divisive Washington politician that is Hillary's true voice.  He also made a solid arguement that he is the most electable and the most prepared to lead the country in a better direction.

He won, for pundits to spin it any other way is ridiculous.
As a registered democrat, I find my choice in the general election to be shaped quickly.  The Clinton machine's attempts to "swiftboat" Obama are certainly not helping their image of being honest and trustworthy.  If Obama does not win the party nomination, I may end up switching to the McCain camp- I simply won't stand for all of this Clinton spin; they are dividers, not uniters.
I am going to vote for Obama, because I can see through the smoke screen that the Clintons are putting up.  Hillary Clinton appears to have a sense of entitlement and is riding on her husbands coat tails.
The Clintons are dead on about Obama's claim on the Iraq war. He claims he has always been against it and that may be so in the speech he gave but when you look at his senate voting record (which is open to the public), he has supported that war just like Hillary ... Furthermore, Obama DID say that "the republicans were the party of ideas for the last 10-15 years "...I suggest you go to "youtube" ...it's on tape ... If Obama wants to be president .. Obama needs to fess up .. If you think the Clintons are hard on him .... the GOP will eat him alive.  
I am truly disappointed in President Bill's behavior. The need of the Clintons to be dishonest about Obama's record, surrogates bringing the race card, all points to more hate and polarazation in November. They are alienating blacks and independents as well as moderates in their own party.That will bring defeat in November. If she can't win on ideas and facts, why is she running? Is it all about her? Bill?  Don't we count?
 An Obama nomination will energize and bring out voters in November, a Clinton nomination will cause people to sit home.
And he brought up Bill Clinton's campaign surrogate role by chiding, I can't tell who I'm running against sometimes.’”

It's funny sometimes, but now Bill has had to jump into the game to help his wife.  is this what we really want from a President??????

The anti Clinton folks are out full force with lies and distortions against them.
Chris Penn (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 9:35 AM)

LOL....
I think the lies finally caught up with the Clinton's when Bill said "I did not have sex with that woman".
Edwards won the debate, but the news media does not want to see this. They actually want to see a first black or first woman elected. This is more news worthy to them. Anything for ratings!
Don't forget...there is a "VAST RIGHT-WING CONSPIRICY"...I'm sure the Clintons will blame EVERYTHING on that...
Dear Mr. Penn,
  I work, pay taxes, raised children who honorable contribute to this society. What I am not is a rightwing NUT WHAT I AM IS AN AMERICAN who's uncle was shot on a beach in Normandy, France and a father who was shot at in Pear Harbor on a day of infamany.  What I rresent is this campagin to convice that republicans are somehow less American than liberals and I resent that!!
Clinton might win the battle and be the Democratic nominee but in that case the Republicans will win the war.  It will be another dirty general election and Clinton might even win...but she will not pick up seats in the house or Senate to get her agenda passed.  I voted for John Kerry even though I didn't like him because I am a Democrat.  I will not vote for Clinton under any circumstances because I am sick of their type of politics.  Just what we need...four more years of investigations and accusations of "a Vast Right wing conspiracy".  Plus as much as I liked Bill Clinton and defended him when he was in the White House; I am tired.  Tired of the sleeze factor that he brings.
Go Obama or Go McCain or Guiliani
It was a great debate. I think Obama was very effective in pointing out Bill's role. Seemed to really get to Hillary - she was not appealing at all, even getting booed at one point!

I want to make one other point. The Clintons - and some GOP pundits like Pat Buchanan - are trying to "marginalize" Obama as the "Black candidate." I just heard Buchanan say Obama has been "GHETTOIZED!!" This is absurd!! OBAMA WON BY TEN POINTS OVER HILLARY IN IOWA WHICH IS 98% WHITE!!! He did very well in mostly white NH and Nevada. In a General Election against the GOP, Obama will win his current white supporters, like me, as well as most of the Hillary and Edwards' white backers. And in South Carolina, Bill has raised the stakes as to which campaign can appeal to the large African-American population there by saying he - Bill - will personally go door-to-door to win their votes. The Clintons are extremely popular with the African-American community - wasn't Bill possibly - (depending on his dancing ability!!) - the 1st Black president?? This contest should not be diminished by the pundits. You have two campaigns who are both extremely popular with the Black community. It will be telling to see who can win their vote. And, again, don't fall for this "marginalization" tactic by the Clintons and people like Pat Buchanan. OBAMA WON  IOWA 39% to Hillary's 29% - a midwestern state which is 98% WHITE!!  
Hillary came with her own agenda, and obama surprised her.  She got what she deserved, and all her yrs of servicd has not changed all the issues and the concerns of the American people are still there so as far as im concerned its politcs as usual and people just dont seem to get it...your getting to hear what you wanted to hear 35yrs ago and going to be another 4 of same politics..Wake up either this is the yr we do something or we are going to get what we deserve.   screwed!!!!!Independents unite.
All the bickering (childish drama)is wasting voters valuable time. The USA has So Many serious concerns facing us right now. Try Really listening to John Edwards. HE came up with plans and the other two have been copying and riding on his platform for months now. (Check records/reports from last summer) Who will roll up their sleeves and dig in their heels to fight for a better USA? Do your homework before you go to the polls!! Barack is not for real! Great speaker, but short on action. We can't afford that kind of leader, especially now!
The Clinton's have been lying to the American people for 16 years.
I don't think there are alot of people who doubt the smartness and toughness of the clintons. But I know that there are alot of people who doubt their morals and ethics; thats all. It is too much to ask from us to forget the last 2 years of clinton's presidency!!!! we want to trust our president this time. Obama got it all for me.
I'm from Illinois, and Senator Obama was a breath of fresh air in our legislature.  Not only that, but he did a lot of good.  Those of you who are complaining about his 139 "present" votes, consider that those represent only 3.4% of his 4,000+ votes during his eight years, and that they generally were to defer a bill until technical issues within it could be fixed.  Also, actually check out his record to see what he sponsored before you throw his name around in the mud.  He did a great deal of good in Illinois, he's done a great deal of good in the US Senate, and he will do a great deal of good in the White House.  Hillary already had her chance in there and failed...big time.  Anyone else find it funny that she touted her "health care experience" last night?
Obama would be good as Hillary's Vice Presidner-no Jokes.  He could learn alot from her and prepare for the presidency after 8 more years.
The Clintons bring on most of their problems themselves by playing dirty, muddying the waters and then they give us their innocent act.  This is why Bill's administration has not and will not go down as a positive and transforming one in history.  Democrats need to get some vision and stop looking at the small picture which gives them small ideas.
Just heard Pat Buchanan say on MSNBC that Obama has been "ghettoized!" This is part of the attempt by him and the Clintons and others to try and place Obama in a box as the "Black candidate." It won't work. People do not have such short memories as to have forgotten that Obama won BIG in VERY WHITE IOWA just three weeks ago! He beat Mrs. Clinton by 10 points in a state that is almost 100% white! And he did very well in New Hampshire and Nevada which are predominantly white. I am a white woman who proudly supports Barack Obama. Why? Because I think he has the best chance to effect real change in our partisan, gridlocked government. Race and gender should not be factors in determining who we support. And this overt attempt by Buchanan and the Clintons to try and marginalize Obama will backfire.
Edwards - 1st
Clinton - 2nd
Obama - 3rd (he was horrible)
I only saw the video clip of thre debate from last night on here. However, it seems to me that Obama is the one questioning, attacking the Clintons every move. Bill and Hillary are one of the most loved and hated political figures in the Nation. He is going to really overstep it one of these days and soon. The question of Bill's involvement in the primaries does not belong in these debates. It seems Obama would rather talk about that than the issues that are really important.Eventually, his mudslinging will only cost him the nomination. The fact that Edwards backed Hillary up on Obama's voting shows that Hillary is not lying. Hillary is the best choice. The only viable candidate that can turn this Nation around. She's got clout!
Hey, Hillary is running for the highest office in the world. you bet she has to be tough. Antone who thinks they can do better than her than had better be willing to get in the mud and fight.I am proud of her.
Obama, for heaven sake, needs to learn how to debate. Instead of whining like a five year old. Rudely not letting others to respond to his childish accusations. He Brings Different type of politics my butt. I liked Obama because i thought he would bring about "change", instead he's just another Washington politician with a loud rhetoric without action.  
We need only to recall that Bill Clinton lied to the American people and lied under oath when he was president. He is a congenital liar and will say anything, do anything, towin an election. It is a shame that Obama has to endure such folly, but that's how the Clintons play. They keep the competitors on the defensive with a barrage of misinterpretations mischaracterations and outright lies. Why anyone would want these people back in the White House is a mystery. It would be Hillary AND Bill every step of the way. He lost a Democratic majority for us in his presidency and the Clintons will blow the Democratic advantages if they get into power again. They are brutes with no ethical or moral basis on which to operate.
The Clintons have an integrity deficit, and even most of their supporters don't try to pretend otherwise.
First Read - why are you guys so slow in posting comments? Nothing since 9:36AM?? How is this possible?

Wanted to say I thought Obama was fantastic last night. Stood up to the Clintons. Made it very obvious to everyone that Bill is running for a third term for himself. Good for Obama.

And, First Read, please post everything between 9:36AM and now, 11:15AM.
Just to clarify, his having placed over 4000 votes in the state legislature.  He voted "Present" about 150 times.  This is COMMON in the Illionis state legislature.  Please learn how things work before writing a candidate off for nonsense.  Though, this is probably just what you are using as your crutch ...
The Clinton strategy of hurling more accusations than can be responded to in the time alotted is smart.  The misuse of information that is not common knowledge (eg, present is a common vote in Illinois legislature, the Chicago Tribune's editorial staff always leans conservative) is just plain brilliant.  But Bill and Hil are showing they are willing to tear the party apart like a blood ravaged bear in order to win the nomination and let me tell you that's just plain stupid.  There are plenty of stubborn Americans willing to suffer through any republican administration just to punish them and the fact is I'm becoming one of them.
The debate needs to shift focus. The real and present danger is the economy and our dependence on foreign oil.  


SEND A COMMENT

PLEASE READ: All comments must be approved before appearing in the thread; time and space constraints prevent all comments from appearing. We will only approve comments that are directly related to the blog, use appropriate language and are not attacking the comments of others.

Message (please, no HTML tags. Web addresses will be hyperlinked):

TRACKBACKS

Trackbacks are links to weblogs that reference this post. Like comments, trackbacks do not appear until approved by us. The trackback URL for this post is: http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/trackback.aspx?PostID=597849

First Read e-mail alerts


Sign up for First Read alerts
The first place for key political news and analysis

Syndicate This Site

Add First Read to your news reader:
live.com xml
myyahoo msn
bloglines newsgator
google