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First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



Clinton to fight for every delegate

Posted: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 4:16 PM by Domenico Montanaro

From NBC's Domenico Montanaro
The Clinton campaign is not about to give up anything without a fight.

Strategists said in a conference call with reporters the campaign will go after delegates wherever they can be found -- including in Michigan and Florida. They also said Clinton will likely be within 25 delegates of Obama after voting on March 4, including superdelegates, and they dismissed most states which Obama has won.

“Could we possibly have a nominee who hasn't won any of the significant states -- outside of Illinois?” Chief Strategist Mark Penn said. “That raises some serious questions about Sen. Obama.”

Howard Wolfson, communications director, pointed out, “We do better the more voters vote. The largest turnout primaries, by in large, are the ones that have favored us. …The presidential election is not a caucus; it’s an election for the most people to get out and vote.”

But the campaign seems to be shifting strategy and employing a method Obama capitalized on Feb. 5. In addition to focusing on the large states -- something Cecil admitted had been their focus -- they are “opening offices” and “hiring staff” in Wyoming, Montana and even Puerto Rico to try to get every delegate possible in “congressional districts where we can be successful.”

Penn, Wolfson and Guy Cecil, a top campaign aide, also stressed the candidates should not be judged by just pledged delegates but by total delegates. Clinton has a 261-179 advantage with superdelegates, according to NBC News Political Unit estimates -- based on totals from the campaign and public endorsements.

The campaign says it will fight to seat Michigan and Florida, where they are now claiming 178 delegates, “whose votes we think should be counted at convention,” Cecil said.

Penn, who said this at least twice on the call, seemed to coin the phrase to encapsulate how they will try to frame the message going forward: Clinton will draw a “clear contrast” between herself and Obama by showing that she is in the “21st Century solution business and not the promise business.”

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Go Hillary!!! I will NOT vote Obama. Terrorist!

Don't give up Hillary. If you lose, McCain gets my vote.  
“Could we possibly have a nominee who hasn’t won any of the significant states -- outside of Illinois?” Chief Strategist Mark Penn said.

Talk about disenfranchisement...
Small states don't count... except for when you are losing so then the small states do count. The only votes that count are from large states except for when you are losing and so then it is okay to count votes from small states. Caucuses don't count except for when you are losing and then caucuses count.

Another day, another new "theme" for the Clinton campaign. Maybe we should retitle it "Titanic 2.0." Unsinkable only until it sinks.
God, why are the Clinton's determined to ruin the best chance the Democrats have to win back the White House? How obvious does it need to be before they realize that they're not the ones that Democrats are excited about?  

I'm so afraid that Hillary is going to make this the nastiest, least graceful exit we've ever seen in modern politics. How unreasonable is it to imagine her holding on to Obama's pant hem while he walks to the podium in Denver to accept the nomination?

Memo to the Clinton's: Don't go away mad, just go away.
Please tell me, Mark Penn, what the hell makes a state "significant"?  And, as a corollary, which of the United States should we deem "insignificant?"

The arrogance is staggering...
I felt sorry for Hillary last night. I really do like her, but her campaign has really been pathetic! She signs a pledge not to campaign in Florida and Michigan because those states violated the rules. She refused to take her name off the Michigan ballot after Biden, Edwards, Kucinich, Obama, and Richardson  did. (Dodd also refused to remove his name)However she made it clear publicly there was no reason to do so, because "these contest won't count". Now that she needs these delegates she is desperate, and has no qualms going back on her word. Maybe instead of getting rid of Solis Doyle, or in addition to getting rid of Solis Doyle, she should fire Mark Penn, he is sleazy and has hurt her every time he opens his mouth.  
"They also said Clinton will likely be within 25 delegates of Obama after voting on March 4 ..."
--Sounds to me like Penn, Wolfson and Guy Cecil saying that Obama is neither the frontrunner, nor the establishment candidate.  I mean, if that's what they want to argue ...
Does Hillary's pledge mean nothing to her? Did she not agree to not campaign in Florida and Michigan? Does her word, like her husband's mean nothing? She was the ONLY name on the ballot in Michigan. Does Hill consider that a fair contest. I doubt that even Bush/Rove would try something this low and disgusting.

Barack has the most votes, the most states. He IS the nominee of the PEOPLE.

Hillary, this sleazy, under-handed, back room cheating is not very becoming for a First "Lady".
I'm fascinated that on the one hand idiot Clinton says that the Michigan and Florida delegations should be seated because every vote counts but states that hold caucuses shouldn't matter because it is undemocratic.  Actually she means that states she wins matters but states that Obama wins don't matter.  What an embarassment to the party Clinton and her campaign are.  Clinton is probably the worst candidate for President ever and her campaign staff are even worse.
Good for Team Hillary.  Let's also not forget to line up those Super Delegates.  BTW, I'm so tired of Donna Brazile's whining!  She's started saying she'll resign from the DNC if the Super Delegates don't vote in the manner that the "popular" delegate vote.  Give me a break!  Way to change the rules mid-stream Donna.  Super Delegates were created for a reason and the rules are in place for a reason.  If the Supers want to vote for a candidate that is trailing in the "popular" delegate count that is there right.    Voting their conscience is actually their duty.  So just because you worry that Obama is going to lose because the Supers weigh in (as is mandated by the DNC primary rules) doesn't make the process "unfair".  If you want to change the system do it before 2012 night during the 2008 primaries.  Oh yea, and stop whining!
Mark Penn just slammed 20 states, what a jerk!
This is not over by a long shot ! Now call Obama's office and ask him why he will not attend the planned debat in "Wisconsin" ? Wisconsin voters deserve a debate on the issues ,not just some "fancy" speeches.
So let me get this straight....the only states that count and should be respected are the ones Clinton won?  Sounds pretty insulting to the rest of the nation.  
this is proof that clinton is a divisive figure.  any state she hasn't won is "insignificant."  here's to hoping she loses support in the contests to come.
Wake up America ! Ask yourself why Obama will not attend a planned debatein Wisconsin. Could it be he doe not want to go one on one with Clinton on the "real" issues ?
Clinton is promising to destroy the Democratic party to get power by insisting on getting the sanctioned Florida and Michigan votes. She will stop at nothing to try to gain power. This is unforgivable!!
BRING IT ON OBAMA, LET'S DEBATE IN WISCONSIN. YOU AND ME ONE ON ONE.
I consider the state I live in (Colorado) very "significant" Senator Clinton.  And don't hate the caucus just because you can't organize.
so full of it.  that's really all I can say at this point.
The grassroots will not go for changing the rules in mid-stream by seating the Florida and Michigan delegates.  The people of those state knew perfectly well the consequences of holding their primaries against party rules.  

If they want delegates to be seated let them have a new caucus or primary and let the candidates be allowed to campaign.  Otherwise they have no cause for complaint.  The idea that this is unfair to minorities is ridiculous.  Plenty of states with high percentages of minorities are participating according to the rules approved long ago.  

If Julian Bond gets his way and it makes it harder for Obama to get the nomination he so clearly is earning, I doubt many black voters will thank Bond for it.  They are now going for Obama by 80% and 90%.  They don't need Bill to be a pretend first black president anymore, do they?

And the rest of us, from all kinds if different demographics, are going for Obama in bigger percentages with every contest.  The only reason Hillary did so well back in January in those states was because campaigning wasn't allowed and she had better name recognition. Naturally Hillary prefers the old results with no campaigning.  Obama is so much better at it.

We Dems of states that obeyed the rules and had campaigns for our primaries and caucuses which went almost 2 to 1 for Obama won't sit still for this Rovian ploy.
So here's a 21st cenutry problem for you to solve HRC... what does the junior Senator from New York plan to do after she loses the nomination?

Try to solve this question too...what promises does Senator Obama make that you think he cannot accomplish?

What solutions do you think you have?  Your words/speeches are more vague than anyone's.

Don't cry before you answer!  And don't answer "well, you know".  I hate when you do that and it shows your lack of mental discipline.
“Could we possibly have a nominee who hasn't won any of the significant states -- outside of Illinois?” Chief Strategist Mark Penn said. “That raises some serious questions about Sen. Obama.”

Wow.  So Senator Clinton's campaign thinks that 20+ states here in the U.S.A. are INsignificant???

Good luck with that campaign.

-David R.
Central Maine
Once again the Clintons dismiss everything that does not go in their favor.  How transparent!  Out of one side of their mouths they say they do better in elections where more people vote. Hasen't this election brought out record voters in every state for the Dems? Then the Clintons say they are counting every deligate and opening offices in very small states all the while saying that the previous primaries were held in states that are not significant states.  So what is a significant state and what isn't all comes down to what they deem significant.  HOW STUPID DO THEY THINK WE ARE AND HOW INSULTING TO ALL THE PEOPLE IN THE STATES THEY ARE DISMISSING.  And we wonder why she has earned the reputation of being polorazing!!!  I live in Missouri and she did all she could to win here and now suddenly it is not a significant state!  I'm insulted and baffled.  Clintonism at it audasious best!!
So a Clinton is not in the "promise" business? What is new about that? They have broken too many promises, over and over. And now she wants to break her promise about Florida and Michagen. Hew newest slogan sounds like the motto of a consulting firm, not a President. Enough already.
They do better... the more voters vote?  Obama has the highest number of actual votes.

They are opening offices in areas "where they can be successful"?  So Clinton's idea of being president of the UNITED States of America, is not giving one hint of care and concern to areas that don't overwhelmingly support her?  She wants to be the President of the Hillary States of America?

Clinton wants Michigan and Florida to be counted?  Why didn't she raise this concern several months ago, when the decision was first made to punish the states?  At one point in NH, she even said Michigan didn't matter, so it's no consequence that she left her name on the ballot!

What's Hillary's "solution" to getting something done in Washington when every Republican refuses to vote with you?  She obviously can't build a coalition by only focusing on places she's strong... She doesn't seem to care about reaching out to people who don't agree with her.  What's her "solution" to Iraq?  She won't give a timetable or "solution" for getting out.  I haven't heard her "solution" to passing health care where she failed horribly before... What's her "solution" to not making the same mistakes we made with Iraq?  She refuses to admit she was wrong! "Blame Bush" is hardly a "solution"...
My goodness...Clinton has no ability to lose gracefully.  How can she continue to dismiss Obama's stong finishes in so many contents - primaries included - when her own accomplishments have been so small given all the natural advantages that she had going into this primary season?  

I know that a lot of people have said that Clinton will fight to the bitter end for this nomination, but I guess that I gave her too much credit in believing that she'd have the decency to bow out without dragging herself and our party through the mud.  It is her right to fight as hard as she wants for this nomination, but of what use will it be if it's perceived that she stole the nomination from Obama??  After all, she will be dealing with more than just Republican and Independent opposition...she'd be dealing with (at least) 50% opposition within her own party.  Is it more right by Clinton's standards to get the Democratic nomination or to have a Democrat in the White House?  For all her talk of caring so much for America's future, she sure has an interesting way of protecting it.

I really hope that Dean and her remaining supporters can knock some sense into her about not fighting tooth-'n-nail for this nomination because it will only hurt us Democrats in November.
When is the natonal media going to come down on the Clinton campaign and chastise them for cheating by trying to change the rules of the game after the game has started?  What proportion of the delegate count from Michigan should Obama get for the "uncommitted" vote, Clinton's main competitor there since the rules going in were that IT DID NOT COUNT!
Another campaign slogan “21st Century solution business and not the promise business.”  That's catchy and it is guaranteed to ring as hollow and phony as "Ready on day one".  Please!
I find it disgusting that, after agreeing with all of the other candidates and the DNC not to play in Florida and Michigan, the Clinton campaign now thinks those votes should count.  I don't think the party is going to heal itself if we have a Florida ala 2000 decision that gives the nomination to Clinton on a technicality.  It's bad enough that the Super delegates (most wanting to maintain the status quo at all costs) are siding with Clinton and not with the will of the electorate.  Now, when even that advantage doesn't appear as if it will be enough, she wants to go back and count votes that she agreed shouldn't be counted.  It is going to be hard for me to support her if she wins this way.  I'm a Democrat, but McCain isn't looking that bad.
Virgina's not a significant state?  Voter turnout of almost a million is not a large turnout?  The Clinton campaign's wheels are really spinning now.  It'll be interesting to see if it gets them anywhere.
Why won't Hiilary release her tax returns?  We can safely assume that something (things) are in there that can be used against her.  If she releases them now, it will be Democrats criticizing her.  However, if she waits until after (and now IF) she is nominated, then it will be Republicans criticizing her; and she dismiss those criticism by, once again, crying that a 'vast right wing conspiracy' is out to get Bill and her.
You mean 20 or so states (So far) are not significant?

Tell that to someone from one of these states.

“Could we possibly have a nominee who hasn't won any of the significant states"
"within 25 delegates, including superdelegates"

That is almost precisely where they are now!  Does that mean they do not think they will net many pledged delegates on March 4?  I understand their addiction to "superdelegates" but that is a poor horse to try to ride to the nom on.  Unlike pledged delegates, supers can switch who they support (having the support of one now does not mean they will support you come convention time).

I understand that it is hard to concede defeat, especially after a long hard fought battle, but for the good of the party if they acknowledge they are not going to have more (or even close to) popularly elected pledged delegates even after March 4 she should suspend her campaign.  Continuing to press ahead only means an ugly nasty convention fight that, even if she is successful in winning (fights on the credentials committee, twisting the arms of uncommitted supers, loud raucuous floor fights, etc.,), would result in nothing more than a murder-suicide for the Dem party come November.  Heck, look at the recent Rasmussen head to head general election matchups:  Hilliary is up only two points in NH versus McCain (43 to 41), but Obama wins by seven (the state he lost in the primaries).  She loses Colorado by seven, but Obama beats McCain in Colordao by six points.
So we're defining "significant" states as what? New Jersey and California? And New York counts even though it's Hillary's home state, but Illinois doesn't because it's Obama's? And Massachusetts is significant but Virginia and Maryland aren't? Talk about gerrymandering.

I'm sure all those voters in the insignificant states would be just excited as hell to come out and vote for Hillary in the general election after all the warm things she's said about them.

By the way, if caucuses are illegitimate, does that include Nevada? And will it include Texas, if she wins?

Please. I've got two little kids, and they don't whine nearly as much.
WHAT A JOKE!! HRC thinks that only the states that favored her are the ones that should count. How desperate, transparent, and downright nasty of her to be dismissive of the country as a whole. Last time I checked, the good ole US of A was made of FIFTY (50) STATES, not just the 8 that voted for slime!! And she can forget getting MI and FL AS-IS! If they are to count, it will either be 50/50 or with a re-do... AFTER Obama has an opportunity to actually campaign here. So glad my money is going to an honest candidate and not the HRC slime-train! BILLARY has lost their base, and to think I actually used to be part of it!! Now I see why the Repubs hate them so.

FIRED UP!! WE'RE ON THE WAY OBAMA!! YES WE CAN & SI SE PUEDE!!
Hire gun men and swords men, then. You are so desperate that desperation rather than giving voters the chance to make their decision this nominating season.
Remember, you, Obama and Edwards agreed to the rules of your party and also agreed not to campaign in states that are in violation of national party rules. Now because thigns did not go the way you wanted, you will fight with defiance and arrogance. Sorry!
“Could we possibly have a nominee who hasn't won any of the significant states -- outside of Illinois?” Chief Strategist Mark Penn said. “That raises some serious questions about Sen. Obama.”

GIVE ME A BREAK! we here in iowa were a "significant state"--she just didn't win here, and left town with her aides dismissing a victory here as equivalent to "winning a mayoral election." well, that was one heck of an important mayoral election as without his victory here, i doubt obama would be LEADING her in this race.

i'm sick of the clinton's dismissing everyplace they don't carry the day as inconsequential--because it was a caucus state, or black people voted there, , or bill never won there, or the weather was bad...blah, blah, blah...

deal with the fact that you are running an inferior campaign, and not exciting the electorate anywhere close to the way obama is! he is running all 50 states--when he loses someplace, he graciously says something about how clinton ran a strong campaign, and it's a competitive race. and then he goes out and tries to win those voters over--be they latinos or older white women. he doesn't dismiss her voters as unimportant! not classy, on clinton's part!
Took them long enough for them to spin and react to all of these lopsided losses. Unfortunately, it will not be enough because Obama is the better candidate.  He has more experience, better organization and financial management, a better and more substantive plan for the US in all facets if one actually takes the time to read it and way better judgement.  Clinton is moving desparately now and it shows. I applaud her for fighting, but ultimately Obama will win the nomination and the presidency.  
Hillary Clinton broke the rule set by the democratic party not to campaign in Florida, because Florida has moved their date, and I think any body that breaks a rule is subject to a penalty or punishment. I don't see how she can bring that issue back later.
[“Could we possibly have a nominee who hasn't won any of the significant states -- outside of Illinois?” Chief Strategist Mark Penn said.]

So, the states Obama has won . . . are not significant?

I like that.......solution business versus promise business.  
sounds like someone is getting desperate...
Obama doesn't dare to debate Hillary, because he has just empty words while Hillary provides real solutions for real problems!

Obama is hot air!

Hillary 08!!!
Obama doesn't dare to debate Hillary, because he has just empty words while Hillary provides real solutions for real problems!

Obama is hot air and an annoying voice!

Hillary 08!!!
Well, another question to be asked of Chief Strategist Penn is "could we possibly have a nominee who won't even campaign in the 'littler' states?"  Hillary moved right from Super-Tuesday on to campaigning in Texas and Ohio for their March 4th primaries! because they have more delegates?  Is she running for President of the United States or President of the Big states only?

She attacks Obama's Health care plan, not because there's anything wrong with it, but more so because it isn't hers. it's much more Democratic in that it incentivises people to purchase health-care rather than mandating it.

and maybe he doesn't want to debate every week because it takes 2-3 days to prepare for each one. Time he'd rather spend meeting people he's asking to vote for him.
How can anyone count Michigan delegates?  Only one viable Democrat was on the ballot (sorry Kucinich).  Hillary cannot automatically claim victory here.

The only solution is to hold a Michigan primary all over again.  The first results were tainted as Democrats and independents voted (if at all) "undecided" or for a least-hated Republican (which may explain Romney's victory).

But I'd like to know who is going to pay for another Michigan primary?  Tax payers?  The DNC?  Hillary Clinton?
Oh, how I wish for either Ohio or Texas to go for Senator Obama, so we can save the party a lot of agony (and money and time).  Will she really not go down gracefully?  Will she really go scorched-earth, no matter the cost in November and beyond?  How sad...
If she can't even run a campaign (where she got so many things handed to her to begin with, as the name recognition, $ raising ability, establishment endorsements etc etc), how does she claim to be ready to lead the country?  George Bush is howing us how dangerous it is for a "leader" to live in a cocoon, and we cannot afford this.  Given the FACTS that she has zero cross-over appeal and independents swing in favor of McCain, how can she claim to be able to win?  Plus, she's not going to be making many friends among the people fervently supporting Sen. Obama (i.e. the FUTURE fo the party) - so with her ceiling even higher, she cannot count on all of the dem base, esp, after a nasty and to-death fight she's pledging.  She's smart - now she can prove she's wise, and she could show that we are wrong when we think that's it's all about them, always, first and foremost....  
Obama is dancing to a song with out delegates that he
only thinks he has.
Please !!  Please !!

Call, write or email your Representative and Senators

Demand that the Michigan and Florida delegations
    NOT BE SEATED !!

They broke the rules, they can't be counted !
This was decided BEFORE EVERYONE VOTED

If people thought their votes would count.....
   More people would have voted

Don't let BILLARY STEAL THE NOMINATION !!

She should fight for every delegate.  In Florida, the republicans moved up the primary as they control the house, senate, and governor.  In addition, you seat the delegates as is.  Any do over is unfair to the voters and both candidates at this point.  Yes Hillary won and although no candidate campaigned in Florida Mr. Obama was the one that actually ran commercials leading up to the primary.  Thus, the votes should stand as is!


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