J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY (Sent Friday, February 15, 2008 9:37 AM)
D. Sample (Sent Friday, February 15, 2008 11:16 AM)

The state Democratic Parties of Florida and Michigan disenfranchised themselves with their decision to move their primary date. They were warned by the DNC, they didn't have to do it. This is a political party with a leadership that decides the rules in it's own primaries and can sanction state parties if they don't follow them. What part of that don't you understand?
You are correct. The Super delegates can choose who they want to for the reasons they want to. They can also change their minds. You now wish to change the rule so that they are bound to their early commitments? Your desperation is palpable. I know this is hard when you have invested so much in your candidates but IF Obama is the nominee then please stay with your party and help deliver a message to the GOP. Someone needs to pay for the past seven disgraceful years and it may as be the "ones what brung him to the dance"
Either way lets do this thing as a untied party welcoming all Americans help turn this country around.

J. Merle,

Your spin astounds me. You speak as if Obama is somehow blocking these voters voice, not the DNC themselves, based upon rules that ALL CANDIDATES agreed to, but only some followed. I INTENTIANALLY BOYCOTTED the MI primary due to lack of fair representation.

Now, if I let you tell it, the voice of Michigan must be heard. What about MY voice. What good is an election with no competetion. Why even go?

And it really speaks to HRCs credibility/character that she left her name on the MI ballot in the first place. Didn't we all discuss that ALL the candidates agreed to the penalties set upon MI and FL.

The only way that MI and FL should be counted is a re-do. If they attempt to seat delegates from my state, where my voice or choice was not represented, I will TAKE TO THE STREETS, AND BURN THE ESTABLISHMENT TO ASHES.

But, as it is, Michigan is in dire financial straights, and can ill-afford a costly re-do on this election. So, follow the damn rules that were put in place before the race started. Anything else would be against democracy and our constitution.

Cathy from NY,
Your posts are as hilarious as J. Merle's.  Strong-armed by "king obama"?  That's the ONLY thing that got those delegates to endorse Senator Clinton in the first place.  It was strong-arming and threats from Bill.  Some of you blind Hillary apologists are rip-roaring funny.

Kevin from PA:

      Great point, this in fact has nothing to do with disenfranchising voters in FL and MI.  What so very few people do not understand is that the law only proscribes discrimination in voting.  As a matter of fact, if the DNC wished to select its nominee by picking a name out of a hat, it would be well within its legal authority to do so.  Likewise, no one can actually be said to have a right to vote.  The so called right to vote, is in fact a privilege and may be suspended or revoked- take for example ex-convicts: by and large convicted felons are stripped of their voting privileges.

A party, (or a state for that matter) may strip voting privileges as long as it is done for a legitimate state purpose with a nondiscriminatory end.  I think it is ridiculous to argue that stripping the FL and MI delegates "disenfranchises" voters.  You may find it unwise to rebuke these battleground states, you may even find it unfair; but the DNC did so through an objective, articulated standard and in no way was it discriminatory.  Those complaining about the disenfranchisement of voters evince a lack of knowledge about the law they seek to enforce.

Come visit Northern California some time.   You'll be able to return to Texas without your silly charicatures and prejudices.  By the way, I think the tiny crew that gets the press in Berkeley is full of wackos too.  But you're way off the mark with your comments.  Sorry pardner.  The Bay Area is responsible for precisely what you're using to spread your prejudices--this blog and the Internet.  I think there are a few people here smarter than your average bear.  Or, to borrow a Texas phrase, there's a lot of cattle here.  We don't worry about the hats.

California Indy (Sent Friday, February 15, 2008 10:09 AM)


California Indy:

I have been to the Bay area in California......
Now I know where all the weirdos are at........
But I don't have to meet all the people in Northern California.....
They sold their homes and moved here.....
They tell me of the idiots and morons that run that state.......
Of the high taxes and some of the sickest laws in the country.......
Of the high crime rate and a mayor who is just a little short of being a true communist.

With all the radical liberals in your area....
You can keep them....
I'd rather live in the real world..........

Being from Michigan, I have a vested interest here.  And what I say is let the DNC seat totally uncommitted delegations from Michigan and Florida and let the fun begin.  

By the way, I hit Hillary's website this morning (as I'm still deciding between her and Obama) and noticed that she doesn't have Michigan or Florida under her "states" section. Apparently we don't exist except when our delegates could be valuable to her.

I've got an idea....to be fair and follow the rules, how about if John Kerry and Ted Kennedy vote for Hillary because she beat the hell out of Obama in their state?    No, they are going to vote for Obama....and all the Obama fans think that that is ok....but if a super delegate in an "Obama" state wants to vote for Hillary...oh my God, that's a travesty and all of you cry that we need to get rid of the super delegates!  I don't get it...it just shows that the Obama fans only want to follow the "rules" when it benefits their messiah.
And by the way, count the votes in Florida and Michigan because the people voted and their votes should count, like they did not in 2000....Remember?  that's why Bush is in the White House, Obama fans!

Go Hillary!!!!!  

Jaycee for President, and I'm not kidding.

The obvious race baiting from the Obama campaign and the strong-arm tactics of getting black Superdelegates to change their support based on "RACE", will have a serious backlash. Obama will NEVER make it to the White House, because this divisive behavior of pitting whites against blacks will create a movement among white voters to stop the momentum of this "racial uprising". This will be especially noticeable in the southern states...if Obama should actually garner the nomination by racially blackmailing African American Superdelegates. Also, all of Hillary's supporters would automatically vote for McCain, because we are looking for an experienced candidate, not a slick politician who played the "race card" and the "Oprah card" to get in. You Obama zealots are fooling yourselves if you truly think that the White House will become a "Black House" just because Oprah said so...Hillary OR McCain For President!!!

re: Michigan and Florida delegates
I have decided to support Obama. This was a process for me, initially I supported Hillary. I enjoyed Hillary's toughness however when the streak of meanness entered I began to question my choice.Her campaign introduces race when it is not necessary, and the fact that this was done after her own show of victimization.  She seemed to genuninely be emotionally hurt by Obama/Edwards and her humanity was appealing, I thought better of her again as I thought others also did. However when that perception was realized by the Clinton campaign, It became a tactic and she became disingenuous. It led me to ask what is more important the Clinton nomination or the nation. While I respect her ability to fight back against the republicans, I dont like the constant baggage that accompanies the fight. I do want some unity in our country, I am tired of the divisiveness. I believe Hill/Bill to be polarizing and not what most of us want for the next eight years.
I believe all citizens who want to vote should be allowed to have their votes count. Inclusiveness is always preferred to exclusivity. This is another reason I have moved away from Hillary. She wants these votes counted as they stand, from primaries that have occured when folks thought they would not matter.If the primaries are revoted, I believe they would reflect the same movement the rest of the country is experiancing. I believe Obama would either win or the delegate count would be split. So from a pragmatists view I believe this argument continues to erode support from Hillary, she appears desperate, and unprincipaled.

A vote for Obama is like voting for Bush. Obama can not be a leader for all of america he will be a leader for black america he will have no choice.S. Perry Front royal Virginia (Sent Friday, February 15, 2008 11:43 AM)

S. Perry:

Why don't you post your predjudice, racist crap somewhere else. It's people like you that give this country a bad name and divide the races more then unite them.  

Vote Democratic! we have two great candidates...Obama is good but hillary is the better choice now.

A vote for Obama is like voting for Bush. Obama can not be a leader for all of america he will be a leader for black america he will have no choice.S. Perry Front royal Virginia (Sent Friday, February 15, 2008 11:43 AM)
*******************************
S. Perry:

Why don't you post your predjudice, racist crap somewhere else. It's people like you that give this country a bad name and divide the races more then unite them.  
C A, Tuscaloosa, AL (Sent Friday, February 15, 2008 12:02 PM)

************************

C A from tesculoosa, does the truth bother you? I want a president for the people not just for blacks.

First, American citizens do not have the right to vote, it's not in the Constitution, you only have the privilege of voting.
Second, counting Florida's and Michigan's votes wouldn't necessarily be fair, considering Clinton was the only candidate on the ticket in Michigan, and of course voter turn out in both states would have been bigger if those delegates of each state were to be counted. Nobody is being disenfranchised [that word is so stupidly political], you guys wasted your own time voting, tough, get over it, you'll live another day.
Both candidates need to let the superdelegates do what they were put in the process to do, and hold any considerations or suggestions of any change in the process until future elections.

Cathy, Update ["Upstate" perhaps?] NY

Also, all of Hillary's supporters would automatically vote for McCain, because we are looking for an experienced candidate, not a slick politician . . .


Cathy. Let me be the first to welcome you to the Republican party. It is a honor and a privilege to have you aboard!

Withdrawing the a vote is the same as withdrawing support.  Unless maybe he's bring her tea and running errands or something.  Nothing like fair-weather fans.  Maybe the GA reps don't understand the difference between leading and following.

Okey doke, lets have a do-over in Florida & Michigan.  Might as well hook up Obama with more delegates, be they super or otherwise.  The SS Clinton is taking on more water, listing to port, and seeing rats flee into the sea.  I feel the rotund soprano songstress is about to break out into full melody.

J. Merle Stanley - Westchester, NY -  I have to totally disagree with you.  Not ALL the people in Florida and Michigan had spoken.  Many never bothered to vote because they were told their votes didn't count.  Add to that, Hillary's name was the only one on the ballot in Michigan, and it seems rather unfair doesn't it?  Not to mention the DNC AND all the candidates, (including Hillary and Barack) AGREED not to count the delegates in those states no matter which way the votes went.  Seems almost like cheating now that the votes are in, and the Clintons want to count those two states, no?  As far as the Superdelegates go, they should be done away with.  But as long as they have "free standing" if he chooses to vote the way his constituents did, that's his choice, isn't it?

I think the way the PEOPLE vote should be more important than the superdelegates.  After all, this is America and not England with it's House of Lords and House of Commons.

Fact Check: Sen. Obama, Exelon and Rezko
2/12/2008 1:31:21 PM

The Obama campaign produced a "fact check" that claimed:

1. Sen. Obama did not water down a bill requiring disclosure of nuclear leaks after pressure from a major contributor

2. Obama did "nothing wrong" related to Tony Rezko

3. There are no unanswered questions about Sen. Obama's relationship with Rezko

All three claims are false.

First, Sen. Obama did waterdown legislation requiring the nuclear industry to disclose leaks after receiving pressure from Exelon, one of his top campaign contributors. The New York Times reported:

A close look at the path his legislation took tells a very different story. While he initially fought to advance his bill, even holding up a presidential nomination to try to force a hearing on it, Mr. Obama eventually rewrote it to reflect changes sought by Senate Republicans, Exelon and nuclear regulators. The new bill removed language mandating prompt reporting and simply offered guidance to regulators, whom it charged with addressing the issue of unreported leaks.

…“Senator Obama’s staff was sending us copies of the bill to review, and we could see it weakening with each successive draft,” said Joe Cosgrove, a park district director in Will County, Ill., where low-level radioactive runoff had turned up in groundwater. “The teeth were just taken out of it.”

… The campaign acknowledged that Exelon executives had met with Mr. Obama’s staff about the bill…

Second, Obama himself admitted that he made a "mistake" involving Tony Rezko:

Two years ago, the two men were involved in a real estate deal that Obama later apologized for, calling it "boneheaded'' and a "mistake'' because the transaction occurred while Rezko was widely known to be under federal investigation. Rezko's wife paid full price for a vacant lot in Chicago's historic Kenwood district on the same day Obama bought the mansion next door from the same property owner for $300,000 below the asking price. Rezko's wife subsequently sold a sliver of the land to Obama.
Third, Sen. Obama's hometown newspaper, The Chicago Tribune, said that Obama needs to disclose more about his relationship with Tony Rezko:

Instead, as we've said, Obama has been too self-exculpatory. His assertion in network TV interviews last week that nobody had indications Rezko was engaging in wrongdoing strains credulity: Tribune stories linked Rezko to questionable fundraising for Gov. Rod Blagojevich in 2004 -- more than a year before the adjacent home and property purchases by the Obamas and the Rezkos.

One more time, Senator:

You need to divulge all there is to know about that relationship. Until you do, the journalistic scrubbing and opposition research will intensify. You should have recognized Rezko as a political seducer of young talent.

Eric Zorn, frequently cited in other Obama "fact checks," agrees:

But journalists are still looking because they're not satisfied that they have the full story.

And that's Obama's fault. At some point early in his campaign for the White House, he apparently decided he'd said all he wanted to say and all there was to say about his dealings with Rezko. He would not grant follow-up interviews on the subject to investigative reporters, and his staff provided written and often inadequate responses to written questions.

To the people saying Obama would only be a president for blacks.  I would like to see ANYTHING even REMOTELY resembling proof that you have any idea what you are talking about.  What makes you think this?  Seriously?  I want to hear some evidence.  Otherwise, you are spewing bigotry and hate and some of us are trying to take the country to a higher level.  So, take off your white pointy hats, do some research, and get back to me.

john doe, how about balancing out what you're saying there.  Where's your "factcheck" report on Hillary?  The one that shows she voted for the same legislation re the nuclear company.  She's on record supporting it.  Regarding Rezko, you really think it's a good idea to go after him for having shady dealings with a crook when you are supporting a CLINTON?!  Please.

Patty's comment....wow..they must be taking Friday off because they are doing a poor job of censoring the blatant racist comments.

Superdelegates SHOULD stand on his/her OWN ground LIKE EVERYONE ELSE in a true democratic spirit. I hope they have kept reminding themselves that they were elected largely for their ability and sense of good judgement when they are required to express their opinions and beliefs.

John Doe - Right ON.

Also all you who think the Florida and Michigan delegates dont count, What if Obama had won those 2 states? You Obama supporters would be crying foul!!!

Cant wait for November. Hopefully I can vote for Hilliary.

I think Obama needs to bury the Rezko questions too... I believe him on what he said, but he needs to tell the American everything and nip it in the bud. I understand why he wanted to move on, when you have to play catch up with the Clintons, it isn't wise to drag yourself down in explaining a complex mistake to the press or her campaign.

on-my-own-ground-- once again:

I would never say that people don't have a right to voice their opinions, however, those opinions should be as informed as possible.  I've seen a lot of people buying in to Hillary's spin about superdelegates.  They were NOT designed to be "independent" or "free-thinkers" or to "vote their conscience."  Do some research!  They were created to help break a deadlock in the event that one should happen, by voting for the winner of the popular vote, thereby putting that candidate over the top.  The system was NOT created to keep non-establishment populists from getting in, or to provide their "sense of good judgement" in the process.  Hillary is spinning the "independent" idea so they can overturn our votes.  Why complain about Michigan and Florida when she wants to disenfranchise the ENTIRE COUNTRY?

The thing about Washington is , the longer a person is there , the more corrupt and crooked they become. I see Obama's lack of "TIME" in Washington as a huge asset , because he hasn't been there long enough to become totally tainted.

Clinton is part of the problem , not the solution , because her and Bill thrive on back door deals and scandal, that's the part they love , and it all boils down to "whats in it for me"..........and to hell with the American people.

Experience...........Obama -vs- Clinton

Senator Obama --During the first eight years of Senator Obama’s elected service he sponsored over 820 bills. He introduced:
233 regarding health-care reform,
125 on poverty and public assistance,
112 crime fighting bills,
97 economic bills,
60 human rights and anti-discrimination bills,
21 ethics reform bills,
15 gun control,
6 veterans affairs and many others.
His first year in the U.S. Senate, he authored 152 bills and co-sponsored another 427. These included:
- the Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006 (became law),
- The Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act, (became law),
- The Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act, passed the Senate,
- The 2007 Government Ethics Bill, (became law),
- The Protection Against Excessive Executive Compensation Bill, (In committee)
Senator Clinton -- Senator Clinton’s, who has served only one full term (6yrs.), and another year campaigning, has managed to author and pass into law, (20) twenty pieces of legislation.
1. Establish the Kate Mullany National Historic Site.
2. Support the goals and ideals of Better Hearing and Speech Month.
3. Recognize the Ellis Island Medal of Hon
4. Name courthouse after Thurgood Marshall.
5. Name courthouse after James L. Watson.
6. Name post office after Jonn A. O'Shea.
7. Designate Aug. 7, 2003, as National Purple Heart Recognition Day.
8. Support the goals and ideals of National Purple Heart Recognition Day.
9. Honor the life and legacy of Alexander Hamilton on the bicentennial of his death.
10. Congratulate the Syracuse Univ. Orange Men's Lacrosse Team on winning the championship.
11. Congratulate the Le Moyne College Dolphins Men's Lacrosse Team on winning the championship.
12. Establish the 225th Anniversary of the American Revolution Commemorative Program.
13. Name post office after Sergeant Riayan A. Tejeda.
14. Honor Shirley Chisholm for her service to the nation and express condolences on her death.
15. Honor John J. Downing, Brian Fahey, and Harry Ford, firefighters who lost their lives on duty.
Only five of Senator Clinton's bills are more substantive:
16. Extend period of unemployment assistance to victims of 9/11.
17. Pay for city projects in response to 9/11
18. Assist landmine victims in other countries.
19. Assist family caregivers in accessing affordable respite care.
20. Designate part of the National Forest System in Puerto Rico as protected in the wilderness preservation system.

In Conclusion, you now have the facts straight from the Senate Records vault.

If we follow the rules, we follow ALL the rules.  Fla and Michigan don't count, and the superdelegates get to vote the way they want regardless of their state (some superdelegates aren't elected officials anyway)
Neither Hillary or Obama get their full way then, which is fair.
But the DNC made the BIGGEST mistake in these rules in the first place.  Do they really believe either Hillary or Obama can win in November w/o MI and Fla?
As for the injection of race into the campaign, watching Bill Clinton in SC made my stomach turn, and I was a staunch Hillary supporter up to then.  But for the records, it WAS Obama and NOT Hillary who started the entire conversation in the first place by likening himself to Martin Luther King.  He could have likened himself to JFK or RFK, but he specifically picked MLK.  THAT's when it started, altho I completely agree the Clintons carried it much to much further
But facts are facts and should be debated as such and not twisted beyond recognition

Hey, California Indy. Love your comment about the "highly educated". What's that suppose to mean? Are you insinuating that if one doesn't posses (um, I mean can't afford) an Ivy League Education than that person is stupid?

My mother, who was only able to complete the third grade because she was needed in the cotton fields probably summed it up best for me.

"Educated Idiots Are A Dime A Dozen!"

She's still the wisest, uneducated lady I've ever known.

The more Hillary keeps up the talk about using superdelegates to steal an undemocratic win, or Michigan Florida etc, the more people will be motivated to turn out for Obama in large numbers to defeat her nefarious designs.

So keep up the doubletalk Hillary. To most thinking people you now are a female replica of Dubya.

Fact check - no war experience, no political experience, ran for ill. senate - unopposed and u.s. senate - unopposed - has been grooming himself for this for years - see the contributions to superdelegate races, and the no votes so as to keep himself clear of tarnish. He is the biggest head case i have ever seen. "I won the east, I won the west, I won the middle - " What an ego. We do not need him to save us or change us. Lasst time i looked i was able to take care of myself and liked the government - maybe not bush but the gov. we have. Check Mccains speech about Obama - today.  Outstanding speech.

"S. Perry Front royal Virginia (Sent Friday, February 15, 2008 11:43 AM)
A vote for Obama is like voting for Bush. Obama can not be a leader for all of america he will be a leader for black america he will have no choice."

Dude,
African Americans make up only 13.4 % of the nations population. That is why they are called a minority. They cannot by themselves elect anybody but when they are joined by broad coalition of ALL Americans then they can HELP.
You need to fight your upbringing or whatever it is that motivates you and try to think clearly. Your mindset is  something this country needs to wake up from. We need to Unite and move forward.

YES WE CAN!

How naive all of the Obama supporters are.

Karl Rove and the Republicans are having a good laugh right now watching Obama's success fall right into place the way that they have planed.

Their strategy and all of its contingencies are palying out perfectly.

Their coup de grace of Obama's race for the White House will come when they strategically secure the Presidency for John McCain, just as they did for Bush in 2000 & 2004.

Then the Republicans will have the biggest laugh that they have ever had.

Gota love those "Cross-over" voters!

I proposed this yesterday in regards to the Michigan and Florida delegates.  Since the DNC did not adjust the delegate number for nomination to exclude the two states in question, we have a problem.

I voted uncommitted in our primary because I was unable to cast my vote for Senator Obama.  What I propose is this:

Since we can't be sure how the primary results would've gone if all candidates had been allowed to campaign, the only fair solution is to EQUALLY divide the delegates by all of the official candidates in the race at the time.

Meaning the delegates get equally distributed between, Senators (Clinton, Obama), Former Senators (Edwards, Gravel) and Congressman Kucinich.  This way the delegates can be seated, no one has an unfair advantage and the states still serve their punishment for moving the primaries.  What do you think?

I am tired of any questioning on Obama to be labeled racist. Bull. If this is the case than all us white folk are the ones to be either used or not important .right?He went by Barry when being brought up in his white as cream, he called it society.Now wanting to unite the blacks he is Barac. hmmmmmm now that is pretty much put away after lies about clintons so he could call race(which he knows nothing about,first hand)now he will use it to pry latinos togeather away from Hillary.While he was in his nice white Hawaii youth she was working on civil rights. The fact not one of you can give her credit for a thing proves this. People that havent voted yet think about it not just follow Barry

As a MICHIGAN registered voter - I voted in the primary elections;  Since my vote would not have any value as a Democrat, I voted Republican for John McCain, though my preference was Obama. So.. Would I get a do-over and get to vote twice? Note: I am a 59 year old white male that can not morally support the Clintons.

You all need to take this conversation a bit farther -as John McCain has a great speech on this site today. He points to obama and asks what makes this man(Obama) think he is the salvation for us. Read the speech, it is a real eye opener. It is all about solutions and experience.  In congress he is seen as an oportunist - looking to make a name for himself without paying the dues of sweat and hard work. I will vote for clinton and if not her then McCain - I will never vote for a peacock like obama, all strut and talk - no experience.

Jack, saying he won in the west, east, and middle isn't ego.  It's a fact.  Keep following Hillary if you like, but chill on the unsubstantiated personal attacks.  You sound like Hillary.

Obamas church states they must be non-negotiable commitment to  Africa.there goal of liberation and restoration. If Obama could just explain this please. I dont like feeling like i do.I was proud of our country and the advancements we made. I liked it when we all thought of each other as Americans. This is deviding us so bad we will never win the election. Dont bash just explain ok please.Its not just the election i fear for any more. Its us as a people.

once upon a time the "queen of Mean" lived in NYC rented out rooms in NYC now she is the junior senator from NY

I think we all need to take a big breath and stick to issues. Yes me too. What is the newest bill Obama supported(Global Poverty)This is his Bill right? 380 Billion Dollars and not a penny to  USA Where is this money comeing from? If my money goes to Poverty I want it to start here.What about his small arms reduction? Whats that about

American Joe, I think what needs to be considered here is that you are asking about the positions of his church, not the man.  I am a Catholic, but do I agree with the inquisition, or with the crusades? No.  Do I agree that people should never use birth control? No.  It is entirely possible for someone to worship at a church AND disagree with some of the things that church supports.

To see how Obama feels, not the church he happens to attend, listen to his speeches, go to his website, look at his record, which works towards unity, civil rights, and empowerment of the individual to take control of, and responsibility for, their own lives.

I hope you don't take my comments as an attack, sometimes text doesn't convey a person's intention very well and so I'd like to state that I only intend to speak to your concerns, not attack the fact that you have some.

Jay, Thank you and i do take them as given,I believe. Thank you and thank you for doing it in a decent manner. This is a big decision for the top job and when all you hear is rants it gets to be a bit much. Thank you  it was helpful.

SUPERDELEGATES///////FLA AND MICHIGAN

--FIRST, superdelegates should do what is best for the Dem party and the country-I do not personally care which state went which way by a few points. The entire country votes for the nominee. ---
SECOND, as I stated before. DNC should do a fundraiser(easy considering how funds are pouring into the campaign-they could raise that money in a day from Dems across the country)  to cover the cost for Michigan and Florida REVOTE.  They should set a REVOTE date//allow set-time for both candidates to campaign in each state(something that was not done previously)//Then have an actual vote(allowing everyone-including voters who did not participate initially because they were told that it would not count). THIS IS THE ONLY WAY TO RESOLVE THIS MESS TO BOTH SIDES' SATISFACTION(HOPEFULLY).

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