ABOUT FIRST READ

First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



Initial thoughts: not a game-changer

Posted: Thursday, February 21, 2008 9:45 PM by Chuck Todd

From NBC's Chuck Todd
This was a debate that had few fireworks. Early on, Obama set the tone and seemed to almost dare Clinton to be confrontational as he was dripping with nice things to say about her. Clinton took the cue and the first 45 minutes of the debate was a buddy picture with each complimenting the other (though Obama did it more often than she did).

But thanks to a question by CNN's John King, the two did exchange some not-so-niceties. From health care to the war of words to Iraq, the two candidates did show they have some disagreements. It was still a rather tame exchange.

As for the big picture, the question for everyone watching this debate is: Did Clinton do anything tonight to change the trajectory of this race? And the answer is no. Did she potentially win this debate on points; I think so; it was close but she had a couple of VERY good moments on health care and the economy that probably scored well in the various focus groups of undecided voters watching this debate.  Obama was uneven, at times great (like in his answers on Iraq and his speeches) but sometimes he seemed to go through the motions. It may be because he was a bit stuffed up; he was good tonight, not great. But he made no major gaffes (for the primary) and more importantly the one great rehearsed attack line Clinton had for Obama (about change you can xerox) seemed to fall flat.

But Clinton needed a game-changing moment and she didn't get one tonight. And this is how this debate will be judged. Frankly, she seemed reluctant to totally go for the jugular. Take, for instance, the question to her asking whether she believed Obama was NOT qualified to be Commander in Chief. As The Atlantic's Marc Ambinder noted to me, she wouldn't answer that question; instead, she made a positive case for herself but didn't make the case against him. Why? Is it too soon to go that negative against Obama and she'll wait until next week or does she realize it's possible she won't be the nominee and she doesn't want the blame for giving McCain his best talking point in a matchup with Obama. Imagine, frankly, had she said, Obama's not ready for the job. McCain would probably repeat that line every day between now and November. Meanwhile, Obama doesn't shy away from basically making the case that she can't bring the country together.
 
Clinton ended the debate on a VERY conciliatory note and for the first time sounded like a candidate who realized she might not win. It must be an odd position for her but the confidence she exuded for just about the entire debate disappeared there at the end. I wonder if showing some vulnerability might actually help her with some undecided voters.

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Obama's been beat up for a week over Clinton's plagiarism allegations, but she's guilty of worse: HYPOCRISY!

Bill Clinton 1992: "The hits that I took in this election are nothing compared to the hits the people of this state and this country have been taking for a long time."

Hillary Clinton Tonight: "You know, the hits I’ve taken in life are nothing compared to what goes on every single day in the lives of people across our country."

Edwards the December 13 debate:

"What's not at stake are any of us. All of us are going to be just fine no matter what happens in this election. But what's at stake is whether America is going to be fine."

Hillary Clinton Tonight:

"You know, whatever happens, we're going to be fine. You know, we have strong support from our families and our friends. I just hope that we'll be able to say the same thing about the American people. And that's what this election should be about."
There are managers and there are leaders. I think that Hillary is a good manager and Barack is a good leader. What do we seek in a President?

I believe we need a leader. President Obama can appoint managers at will.
What debate did you people watch???? Hillary was wonderful. At the end we were crying - she got a standing ovation!!!! Obama lied!!!! Only copied lines twice? Get real. Go on you tube. The video goes on for 8 minutes with him copying everyones speeches. Media is so full of lies. I am embarrassed - my three daughters are so disgusted - 25, 17 & 15. They wonder what happened to being fair and honest. Went out the window with the Obamamites!!!






















Clinton asked today, (not in the debate). Who you would want answering the phone in the White House at 3am? I know I would not want Monica Lewinsky answering the phone at 3am in the White House.




A true leader, with the common sense, compassion and the ability to see both sides, Hillary Clinton embodies all of these characteristics. A brillant woman with more knowledge and understanding than we have seen in our politicians in decades. The uphill battle that women have faced since the beginning of the century is apparent again. I only hope that the men and women of America will judge a person on their merit and their ability. If that is the case, Hillary Clinton will be our next President.
A truly great moment of politics. It was GREAT! I am proud of the DP. Although I think Barack won, they both were strong. At this point, in my book, they’re both winners, no matter what happens next…
Check out Hillary lifting language from huer husband:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ7Cs3QvT3U

AND EDWARDS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAYItnI-lPo

SHE IS SUCH A HYPOCRITE.

WHAT DEBATE WERE YOU PEOPLE WATCHING????

HILLARY CLINTON WAS EXCELLENT!

THIS DEBATE WAS A TURNING POINT FOR ME --- HILLARY FOR PRESIDENT.

I think the debate proved that their policies are known to be very similar and it's no doubt they're still both historical candidates.  The main difference:

Hillary is unlikable and Barack is very likeable. She looked and acted sooooo fake up there tonight, as always...and Obama looked like a president, as always -- that's just the way they are perceived.  Perception is what matters.  I've never met someone who liked Hillary anyway.  

Vote Obama TX, OH, RI, VT and lets move on to the main event...defeat McCain!!  
Chris can you go to a real photographer and get a picture that doesn't make you look like you just passed gas?
Who would have ever imagine such a complete collapse as the Clinton campaign has had.  There were not very many people who thought she would not be the candidate for the Democrat Party back when she announced her candidacy.  Obviously she thought everyone would bow down and worship her; after all she was Bill Clinton's wife.  However, a breeze began to blow out of the Windy City and he spoke of a new era needed for the country and this new breath of fresh air captured the imagination of the voters and they rallied around this amazing man.  The voters believe he is the man that will restore confidence and bring about a new day for all the people.  Hilary's campaign did not figure on a strong contender and relaxed and did not prepare to secure the nomination.  She relied on Bill (big mistake; he has always let her down), she chose her "best friends" to  run her campaign (not a good idea, especially when they were mostly women), and when things started to go bad she cried and said, "I want to be President."  The country does not want the old politics associated with the Clintons and the Bushes.  They want to move forward with new personalities and new ideas.  I do not think Clinton will win any more primaries.  She's done.  You can stick a fork in her.  It is over.  She will cry and blame everyone but herself.  What a pity.  I cannot remember a more complete collapse of a candidate than this.  The Clintons are kings and queens of the political spin.  It will be interesting how they spin her collapse.  I am sure she will not take any of the responsibility for it.  I think it is interesting that know one in the media or anyone else for that matter has brought up the fact that when she was a young lady living in Chicago she was the President of the Young Republicans.  Interesting.  It looks like that is the only presidency she will ever be able to claim.
Good Job both Sen. Obama and Clinton! I'm proud of you both. Please keep the issues in the forefront and keep discussing your plans. This poor country needs to be united, to work together and enjoy our freedoms. I'm so bloody tired of the partisanship, the ugly comments, the "I have values your side doesn't" attitude. As an EX-Repub. I urge you to bring our country together and get something positive done for the citizenry! Thank you.
Very well done on both sides, and for the first time I actually LIKED Hillary, but not enough to change my vote.  I'd love to see them both on the ticket. Obama for President, Hillary his running mate.
I don't know what debate you saw, but I saw Clinton as a smart, graceful, informed and passionate candidate.  Obama stuttered and offered no new details about his plans.  I guess without a teleprompter or his friends, he can't speak so well. The media has been less than honest about this contest from day one. You put up nothing but awkward photos of her, and model poses from him.  You never go after him.  It's not too much of a shock that you don't include any women in first read.  This has gotten ridiculous.  Do your job.
Tonights debate showcase two outstanding candidates.  The clear commander of the day was Senator Obama.  He demostrated that he has the command of the issues and has the ability to bring the country togethere and get us to dream again.  I am proud that he will be our next President of the United States
blah blah blah like always he's the second coming and hillary is horrible.. were all sick of it and im not even a democrat.. she's gonna suprise all you haters in texas and the other primarys watch it's going to put all you haters to eat crow. LOL hahahahahahaha
Senator Clinton's closing lines were plagarizing John Edwards lines so it is not heartfelt. Again it was a ploy to gain sympathy votes. While Senator Clinton is pretending to be civil, a group of her wealthy friends formed a 527 to blanket the remaining primary states with ads in an attempt to destroy Senator Obama. This is more of the same "old" politics; Win at All Costs.  This will alienate and repel young and new voters to the system.
We deserve better.  We have suffered through this divisive and selfish politics for too long.
I am not sure anymore , Barack tells everyone what they want to here. Per Politics. He may make a good President but it will be hard for the USA to get use to President Obama as President of the United States. iT DOES'NT FIT.  It's to close to Obama Bin Laden
This thing is all over but the shouting. Obama will come,as usual, from 20 points back and win those two big states and get the nomination. He in turn will get clobbered by John McCain. Perhaps Clinton than can try again in 2012 but she will have to run a much better campaign than this one.
I think her last comments could hurt her in two ways:  (1) she criticized Obama for "plagiarism" and then used John Edwards' talking points; (2) while some voters might feel sorry for her and decide to vote for her, I think just as many might feel like this was giving them permission to vote for Obama without feeling guilty.  Essentially she said, "Vote for him if you want...I'll be OK and you don't have to worry about me."  I was starting to feel really sorry for her but this comment may have deflected pity and cost her those sympathy votes.
Great ending... too bad that wasn't hers. Let's thank Edwards for those words.... I wonder if he knew she was going to STEAL them from him tonight.....

Hillary, the woman with a Solution for other people words....
I wonder how it feels to have the only game you got..(that is the game of get nasty and try to hurt the other guy into getting out of your way) backfire to a chorus of boos. only then to see your rival (with out much effort at all) reap the cheers and adoration you so desperately want for yourself... She  needs to quit fishing for frivilous points of attack and find some real substance to talk about. she needed a knock out punch.. she didnt even fan him as she swang at him missing the mark terribley yet again. I have said and posted many times when in a serious debate she has to be nasty and attack because if she had to stand on the truth of her real contributions through legislation she would be out for the count.... After march 4 she will have to see and hopefully agree that the boos are resounding all over this land.. By By Billary...
Both candidates made excellent points about their particular positions, plans and goals.  I think that Sen. Clinton at times appeared a bit desperate to make people see that she was better qualified than Sen. Obama, while he went out of his way to acknowledge that while some specifics are different, they are really both very similar in the positions that they have.  Clearly the choice is going to be made based on more than positions, it will be made based on who is best qualified to lead and I think Sen. Clinton's desperation speaks for itself, even she is beginning to see that Sen. Obama is the best person for the job!  Go Barack Go!!
Grace under fire...she is seasoned, experienced, wise, and a pro...she knows the details, has a plan and has the courage to act in the face of all the pundits in this country. She is probably the only one who truly knows there is no Knight on Horseback and that the change we seek comes from inside and has always been with us. Go, Madame President.

Lynnsy Logue, Charlotte, NC (Sent Thursday, February 21, 2008 9:56 PM)
-----------------------------------------------------

This is pathetic Lynnsy!
Stealing Obama's talking points, and attributing them to Hillary... That's a new low!
In part because of your media and the so-called pundits like you, Chuck, you American democracy are doom.
Obama had the easier task tonight and he did it very well.   He didn't throw any first punches, but jabbed back hard when they were thrown.  He handled the Commander in Chief question is true Presidential style.  

Hillary needed to go for broke and change the game and she didn't do it.   I hope she will remember to credit Edwards for her use of his remarks in her closing :).
Chuck Todd you are overt in your bias against Hillary just as the sexist comments of your staff. Are you simply a hardcore sexist or simply to concerned with your own ego to be able to see the truth?

Hillary carried the debate since Obama always followed her lead as if he cannot come up with any of his own ideas, but this we all know. Hillary ended on a powerful note and you cannot even accept that.

Nobody cares what you think and MSNBC ought to replace you.
Your a sexist jerk just like your staff with the exception of Dan A.
He is the only member of your staff with any class or balance in his reporting. You guys are as LOW as Fox. Does Rupert own your --- too? You also cut off Hillary the other night to go to Obama. Your bias toward Obama is OVERT! Bad Journalism.

J. Los Angeles
It is interesting that Clinton would make a charge about plagiarism and Xeroxing, and then end the debate with a line originally spoken by her husband, as reported by the New York Times on November 4, 1992.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/179614.php
Clinton Tonight:

You know, whatever happens, we're going to be fine. You know, we have strong support from our families and our friends. I just hope that we'll be able to say the same thing about the American people. And that's what this election should be about.


Edwards the December 13 debate:

?What's not at stake are any of us. All of us are going to be just fine no matter what happens in this election. But what's at stake is whether America is going to be fine.
---


By Josh Marshall

Bill Clinton, 92: "The hits that I took in this election are nothing compared to the hits the people of this state and this country have been taking for a long time."

Hillary Clinton, tonight: "You know, the hits I’ve taken in life are nothing compared to what goes on every single day in the lives of people across our country."

watch out, Clintons always have tricks up their sleeves. Seeming beaten, bull just another ploy. Her manager sent email to MSNBC saying she will be the next president of the United States. D
It seems to me that everyone is missing the "800 pound gorilla in the room" with Clinton's closing words, i.e. she VOTED for the war that resulted in the soldiers receiving their injuries. A sad situation indeed...
Clinton did pretty well. She lost points with the xerox attacks, but she gained them back, plus some in the end. Looking and sounding good at debates is definitely her strong suit.

On the other hand, nothing that changes the game. Nothing they will write about beyond tomorrow. Obama did a very competent job and deflected and defused the attacks.
Both candidates did well . But Obama has the momentum but can we Americans get use the name President Obama
if he gets elected I and many others will always be reminded of 911  Obama Bin Laded I guess if he could'nt reach the White House by plane he would just get elected into it. WOW What a country.
T Terry I wholeheartedly agree with you.  We are witnessing not only a turning point in the history of American politics, but we are also seeing a woman and an african-american competing for the highest office in our land.  Other than the "Xerox" statement I thought Hillary did very well tonight.  In some ways I don't solely blame her for making what was no doubt scripted by some of her staff writers.  Yes, this is a new era of politics and I am grateful for not only witnessing this, but also having the opportunity to be a part of history in the making. By the way, one of the things that I noticed that Barrack and Bill Clinton have in common is that both of them are left handed.  Hope that doesn't mean anything lol.
her best line was an edward's line-- that's just great!
Clinton Tonight:
"You know, whatever happens, we're going to be fine. You know, we have strong support from our families and our friends. I just hope that we'll be able to say the same thing about the American people. And that's what this election should be about.?"

Edwards the December 13 debate:

"What's not at stake are any of us. All of us are going to be just fine no matter what happens in this election. But what's at stake is whether America is going to be fine.?"

Does this make Hil guilty of plagiarism?
Please at the next debate ask him the questions first.  He needs to respond on his own!!!!!!!  She obviously is much more experienced, poised, seasoned to be THE PRESIDENT, he will depend on too many other officials for guidance and who does that sound like BUSH..........I am proud to be AN AMERICAN ALWAYS
I thought Barack showed some substance behind his words. The booing during Hillary's "xerox" coment made it clare that people want change. Do people even use Xerox machines anymore? Perhaps "Xerox" is a medaphore for her politics.....outdate! Barack's ability to see clearly that the old ways of our foreign policies need to change could potentially heal our international image and our national conscience. He makes bring an overwelming feeling of well being to the tabe. I'd rather a nations success be judged on an overall feeling of well being as apposed to GDP of GNP. Go Barack! Lead us foward!
Obama look really scare in the first half of the debate,and he didn't really know much about economy at all.I think obama is a joke! What we need right now is someone who has the experience and know how to solve all of this complex problem that are facing ours nation.
Same biased crap from MSNBC...Clinton's closing remarks rocked the house!  Of course, your comments deny that success as you have all along.  You could learn a thing or two from such a class act as Hillary Clinton.  If Obama's win this Primary, he rides in on the backs of all of us...including the Clintons, who have stayed through the ups and down of this Party for more years than Obama is old.  And unlike the rest of you, we will support the Party's nominee even if it's Obama...just like we have for years, with teamwork, faith, courage and grace. We aren't 'fair weather' friends, Independants or Republican cross-over, party crashers, we've been here and will be here for a long time.  Those are not attributes I have seen in any of Obama's supporter (although I have hope for you, yet) and certainly not from MSNBC (a 'news' broadcast that I have lost complete faith in).
I watched most of the debate. It seemed quite flat. They have campaigned too long and they have been over exposed.  I thought Mrs. Clinton did a better job, and Senator Obama seemed a little bit off. They neutralized each other to the point that the Democrats look like a 3 year old reality TV show in re-runs.

The news on Senator Mc Cain was disturbing - true or not true. Very low blow. The media is controlled by big money. They used to say beware of the Military /Industrial complex. Today beware of the Media  / Wall Street complex.



This election year is now slipping into boredom and the old dirty tactics.

I voted for Bush, but now I am feeling sympathetic for Kerry since I can now see how the political machines and press destroyed him.

Here we go again.

Both parties are guilty.

What worries me is the fact that there is so much instability in the world and with the global economy. I have no idea who can possibly lead us or protect us in the coming years.

Could someone please step out of the shadows?

I can't believe how much Hillary spent on Pizzas and Dunkin Donuts. It's just disgusting. Do they really think that if they by an average American a cup of coffee or a clump of dough they can influence them?

This has to be the most shallow election of all times.

I think we are in a lot of trouble.

The only thing that can truly wake up the average American is one or two or three of the following events:

Economic collspse
Terrorist attack
Major national disaster

Until we get slapped in the face, we will all act like poor Britney Spears until we hit bottom.

Take a deep breath............you'll need it.

We are on a collison course much greater than that satellite they shot out of the sky yesterday!

Get your affairs in order! Don't forget the baby pictures and food for your dog!
kristina b,

Thank God I'm not the only one who recognized John Edwards' words in Clinton's statement.  Hope all voters were paying attention to that one.....and she accused Obama of plagiarism........shame, shame!
Debates don't make Presidents.  Look at Kerry/Bush 2004 debates.

Obama made no gaffes, didn't look at his watch, didn't try to intimidate, didn't go negative.

He was just fine, and thus, the big mo keeps going.
It's a done deal. President Obama has a nice ring to it.
Hillary did a super job tonight!  I watched the comments on CNN and MSNBC by flipping channels back and forth via remote. I found it interesting that CNN praised both candidates but MSNBC only downed Hillary with almost every comment!  I am so disappointed in MSNBC.  A few weeks ago I had decided to switch to CNN, but thought I would give MSNBC another try.  Your network is so biased against Hillary until it is pathetic!  You are just as bad as the NY Times trying to sabotage McCain this week.  Your job is to report the news in yes, a "fair and balanced" manner.  Not to shove your choice in our face at every given opportunity.  It will be interesting to see how you are treating Obama after some of his carefully hidden flaws come to light - and eventually they will.  I am sure that the rude Obamamaniacs are tired of reading my post, so I'll conclude with this.  I have listened to the candidates and will continue to support Clinton.  In North Carolina, there are several democrats like myself who are planning to cross party lines and vote McCain if Obama is the dems nominee.  We will never support him.  I am extremely disappointed in your coverage of this part of the election cycle and your network should be ashamed.
I'm SICK & TIRED listening to Senator Clinton saying that she has this 35 years of experience and READY ON DAY ONE.

Well SHE CAN'T EVEN TAKE CHARGE OF HER OWN CAMPAIGN NOW WITH all that experience, plus having been thru 2 presidential elections of former president Clinton, and this is all she got?  If you can't even get your primary (no less) presidential election together NOW how do you expect to run a country?  Talking about how Senator Obama is not ready, Obviously so far he's ready enough to go against the CLINTON MACHINE....

With all the good that comes from Senator Clinton experience also come a lot of bad ones.  That 35 years of experience also give us the war in Iraq, No Child Left Behind, Bankcruptcy Law, NAFTA, not to mention secrecy conduct that would rival President Bush.  You would've known what you know now Senator Clinton if you bothered to read the NIE report, obviously those 35 years experience didn't lead you to that judgment. I don't know what kind of your own research that you did, what kind of advice that you got, those 35 years of experiences still DIDN'T LEAD YOU TO THE CORRECT ANSWER.  

AND LET'S TALK ABOUT THIS HEALTHCARE STUFF, with all HER EXPERIENCES, I watched when she came out with her healthcare plans after John Edwards & Barack Obama came out with theirs almost a year ago, HER PLANS were basically IDENTICAL WITH JOHN EDWARDS'.  So, now she has the nerve to say Barack Obama plagiarized Patrick Devall, WELL SENATOR CLINTON PLAGIARIZED JOHN EDWARDS' HEALTHCARE PLAN.  She just copied his plan and change his name to hers.  

I mean is this the person who supposed to be the inevitable candidate? The person who has been collecting money from donors for more than 2 decades now, and THIS IS THE BEST CAMPAIGN & MESSAGE she can deliver FROM THOSE 35 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE?

I'M INEVITABLE, I'M EXPERIENCE, I'M READY ON DAY ONE,I'M SO READY I HAD TO COPY MY HEALTHCARE PLAN FROM JOHN EDWARDS, I'M SO READY I HAVE TO MAKE SURE QUESTIONS GIVEN TO ME BY THE PEOLE ARE PLANTED AND THOSE THAT AREN'T HAVE TO BE PRE SCREENED, I'M SO READY I HAVE TO KILL ANY ARTICLE FROM BEING PUBLISHED IN CASE IT SAYS SOMETHING BAD ABOUT ME, I'M SO READY THAT I DIDN'T THINK I NEED TO MAKE MY CASE TO PEOPLE IN SMALL STATES LIKE WASHINGTON, NEBRASKA, DELAWARE OR VIRGINIA, I'M SO READY THAT CAUCUSES AREN'T IMPORTANT SO I DON'T HAVE TO TAKE THEM SERIOUSLY, I'M SO READY THAT EVEN IF I LOOSE 11 ELECTIONS IN A ROW IT'S STILL VIABLE TO SAY THAT I'M THE MOST EXPERIENCED ONE AND READY ON DAY ONE AS COMMANDER IN CHIEF.

GIVE ME A BREAK!!!

And this is coming from somebody who's NOT even voting for her opponent.
President Obama, I quess if you can't beat em join em.
I wonder if Bin Laden gets invited to the White House since h e will have kin folk their If Obama gets elected.
Pretty good job for Hillary tonight!  Sure seemed to me Obama was parroting Clinton for the first hour.  She'd say something and he would just basically repeat it.  That went on and on.  Where is Obama's substance?  She speaks clearly about her agenda and he kinda generalizes.  This Obama guy is just not ready in my opinion.  Hillary is the smart choice to make on this one!
Go Hillary Go!  Never give up!!
Hillary Clinton...the next President of the United States!!!
may be hillary need to ask those soldier for forgivness because she is the one of those gave george bush the autorisation of that dump war you did enough damage so far to this country enough fake moment and lies you stand up and say obama has no substance every day on your stump but you cannt cofront him on you argument in the debate you are a looser and your campain speaks for itself

goodnight for all of you
i am from ohio and i am cashing my vot for obama on march 4

obama 08
I checked it out.  Hillary did steal a key paragraph in her closing comment from John Edwards.

Hillary, if your entire campaign consists of attacking your opponent for stealing the words of others, don't steal the words of others.

The one thing the voters can't accept is blatant hypocrisy.  
T Terry, Gary, TN, you me and Michelle Obama all are very proud to be americans.  This has been special and hopeful.  Thank you for thanking the canidates.  All of the negative needs to jump on the Mc Cain train.  We are on te Love Boat.


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