The battle over Cuba begins

Posted: Friday, February 22, 2008 12:37 PM by Mark Murray

From NBC's Mark Murray
The first of many McCain-Obama fights over Cuba? The McCain campaign just put out this statement: "Not so along go Senator Obama favored complete normalization of relations with Fidel Castro's Cuba. Last night, he said that as president he'd meet with the imprisoned island's new leader 'without preconditions.' So Raul Castro gets an audience with an American president, and all the prestige such a meeting confers, without having to release political prisoners, allow free media, political parties, and labor unions, or schedule internationally monitored free elections.

"Instead, Senator Obama says he would meet Cuba's dictator without any such steps in the hope that talk will make things better for Cuba's oppressed people. Meet, talk, and hope may be a sound approach in a state legislature, but it is dangerously naive in international diplomacy where the oppressed look to America for hope and adversaries wish us ill."

Obama's camp has yet to put out a response, but here is what he said in the debate last night: "I support the eventual normalization. And it's absolutely true that I think our policy has been a failure. I mean, the fact is, is that during my entire lifetime, and Senator Clinton's entire lifetime, you essentially have seen a Cuba that has been isolated, but has not made progress when it comes to the issues of political rights and personal freedoms that are so important to the people of Cuba. So I think that we have to shift policy."

McCain, of course, is trying to score points with Florida's Cuban community. But then again, isn't he tying himself to the politics of the past here?

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Comments

Well john...your well heeled corporate supporters are doing business in places like china and vietnam where there are human rights abuses every bit as bad if not worse than cuba's...perhaps you'd like to ban travel and trade with those places too...hurry now john before the olympics and all those american corporation commercials ok?

Rick, NC (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 12:45 PM)

Not only that but there is a simple reply to that.

Just name all heads of states that are allies of the United states that have political prisoners and human rights issues and then ask if McCain won't meet them until they do. No more meeting with Egyptian President for instance ?
The hypocrisy is easy to debunk if one stops cowering in front of the older part of the Cuban community.

Benjamin (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 12:47 PM)

Yah, you sack, and you said you'd never done anything that wasn't in the public interest LINCOLN SAVINGS AND LOAN.

Our "sore head" attitude towards Cuba is positively stupid and infantile, no matter how many politician are bought in S. Florida.

LINCOLN SAVINGS AND LOAN, JOHN. How was it in the "public interest" to bail out a bunch of greedy speculators? When rich people lose money, the government is all over it, huh?

Lee in CA (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 12:48 PM)

"So Raul Castro gets an audience with an American president, and all the prestige such a meeting confers, without having to release political prisoners, allow free media, political parties, and labor unions, or schedule internationally monitored free elections."

Nixon did so for China.

rj, NC (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 12:48 PM)

When we're done with Hillary grandpa won't know what hit him.

Yiannis, Baltimore (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 12:49 PM)

No dissrespect but you can't teach an old dog new tricks. After Bush..McCain's world views just don't cut the mustard anymore. He is stuck in 2000.

CJ (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 12:49 PM)

I'm glad "Pimp Daddy B.O." announced his intentions to negotiate with communists in Cuba before this general election.
Anybody who votes for him from this point on gets exactly what they deserve; a sniveling little pimp who would sell his country out to Fidel's henchmen before he would honor the flag, the people and the veterans it represents!

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 12:50 PM)

I don't see a problem with an American president sitting down with the Cuban leader to discuss what they believe should be the right way to go about a business. If we do not talk to Raul Castro, NOTHING will get accomplished. In the past 50 yrs they have not released their political prisoners, nor had free media, nor had any of the other things that were mentioned by McCain. What makes us think that they will start taking those actions just so an American president will come to visit. If they haven't cared for it in the past 50 yrs, they aren't going to care for it in the next 50 yrs. However, if you sit down with them and talk about the challenges they face, and the benefits that they can have with a normalized relation to the US then you might start to see some change. The concept of isolation with cuba hasn't worked in 50 yrs..and will not work in the next 50 yrs. We need to talk to people; thats how problems are solved.

Johnson, New Orleans, LA (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 12:51 PM)

Yes Sen McCain. Because the policy of demanding action first then we'll talk to you worked SO well for the last 50 years.

It's funny. For someone who wants to talk about Reagan so much, he seems to have forgotten a lot about what Ronald Reagan did to end the cold war with the Soviet Union.

"Ronald Reagan recognized the change in the direction of the Soviet leadership with Gorbachev, and shifted to diplomacy, with a view to encourage the Soviet Leader to go further with his reforms. Gorbachev agreed to meet Reagan in four summit conferences around the world: the first in Geneva, Switzerland, the second in Reykjavík, Iceland, the third held in Washington, D.C., along with the fourth summit in Moscow, Russia. Reagan believed that if he could persuade the Soviets to allow for more democracy and free speech, this would lead to reform and the end of Communism."

Demanding another country does what we tell them to before we'll even talk to them is a rediculous policy that hasn't worked for decades. Reagan knew that. He went and TALKED to Gorbachev. They got to know each other. They learned to respect each other, even though they differed on many things. That opened the way to actual change.

BL, Cincinnati OH (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 12:52 PM)

J. Merle - you need to take a few deep breaths.

You call him "pimp daddy" because you've used his services, or is it simple racial hatred?

Lee in CA (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 12:53 PM)

J Merle gets more and more spiteful and bitter every day. How disgusting. S/he even posted that trash in the post about an officer dying.

On topic, there's nothing "special" about getting to talk with the President of the US. The "silent treatment" as long been proven to fail, and often fail miserably. ONLY through talks can we begin to work out our differences. Snubbing your nose at your enemies is childish and absurd. Our approach to international politics desperately needs to change.

Ron, TX (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 12:55 PM)

J. Merle Stanley,

You have done more for the effort to get Obama elected than anybody I know. Your ignorant hate-filled diatribes only make me and many others fight that much harder for Obama. It's really hard for me to believe that there are idiots out there like you.

Good luck with all of that hate. You're going to have 8 long years of it.

MNDem (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 12:58 PM)

Three Cheers for Hillery Clinton! She can survive
the Press, i.e. Chris Matthews, and them some.

We will soon be hearing the beautiful cliches uttered
in the years of OBAMA. Who was it that said EVERY MOMENT BECOMES A CLICHE?

Madge McConnell Orlando, Florida (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:00 PM)

man..i hope first read begins to properly blocking bigot posts like the ones from "J. Merle". I think he needs a diaper change.

CJ (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:00 PM)

Patty, San Diego, CA (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:01 PM)

The 50 year embargo is starting to show some success, it's outliving Fidel. Why bother with something new like talking...

Randy Ewart (SC) (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:09 PM)

Patty, I think your perception has been "punck'd".

Randy Ewart (SC) (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:10 PM)

J. Merle Stanley, I used to think you were a Hillary's supporter. I no longer believe that. I have couple questions for you though: What do you have against republicans? Shouldn't you be one? I do not agree with everything the democrats do, but aren't they known as the party of diversity? Surely you couldn't a democrat, could you? What I mean is I believe you have a right to be against Barack Obama but your hatred is way over partisantiship.

Doles, Miami, FL (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:10 PM)

Okay, so Obama sits down with Castro II, and convinces him of what? Will Raul have "hope" after the meeting? Or will Raul agree to "change"?

Bonnie Fetters, Nome Alaska (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:12 PM)

J. Merle, you have absolutely EVERY right not to like Obama, but your post is quite offensive.

Patty, from San Diego. Ditto for you.

I don't get it. If you don't like--then don't vote for him. The personal attacks are unnecessary. Both of you have just revealed a great deal about your character.

Lewis, Cincinnati, Ohio (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:15 PM)

J.Merle....you just ooze racism.

One thing that I really like about what Obama had to say on the subject last night was that due to the legacy Bush has left whoever succeeds him they would have to go the extra mile and be quicker to extend their hand and have the meeting because Bush et al have so damaged our reputation internationally.
And as for Cuba...it is so ridiculous that we have such different standards for dealing with them as opposed to how we deal with China.

Mason, Holland, Michigan (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:16 PM)

I don't get it. If you don't like--then don't vote for him. The personal attacks are unnecessary. Both of you have just revealed a great deal about your character.
Lewis, Cincinnati, Ohio (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:15 PM)

************************

ummm what personal attacks?

Patty, sd, ca (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:17 PM)

A bitter heart devours its owner.

JohnnyU, WA State (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:17 PM)

I think the boy should get ready for a Novwember loss. Democrats fell for the Republicans strategy and for that they'll pay in Novemeber.

Republican startegy vote for Obama in states that hold open elections. No intentions of voting for him in the general elections.

Use Obama to take Hillary out.

Democrats you have been punck'd.
Patty, San Diego, CA (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:01 PM)
______________

Keep telling yourself that to make yourself feel better. The majority of States won by Obama were closed, Democrat only, contests.

BL, Cincinnati OH (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:17 PM)

McCain is correct in pointing out the complexities of such a meeting. Yes, Reagan and even more note worthy, Nixon certainly opened doors when they met with world leaders but these meetings were not the first stage of a process, not even close.
Obama is exposing a negative when he talks about his plans to meet with no preconditions. He should re-think this position.

campdog (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:19 PM)

Patty in San Diego,

I can tell you right now that there is no way Grandpa McCain is going to be our next President. McCain is basically running as if he was the VP for Bush. Loves wars (the 100 year variety) and tax cuts for the rich (even though he previously opposed them when he was known as Maverick). Uh, I don't think so.

The youth vote turnout for the Democratic Primaries and Caucuses have to absolutely frighten the Republicans. Do you honestly think that this youth vote, who has so much invested in Obama, is not going to turn out in November? Think again.

Everybody talks about how this is playing into Rove's hands. Well, Rove and Republicans didn't do too well in the 2006 election now did they. Republicans represent the past, Democrats represent the future.

MNDem (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:19 PM)

So it's ok to have "normalized" realtions with other communist regimes, and countries ruled by brutal dictators as long as the lobbyists say so? It has been exposed that the U.S. has had illegal renditions to other "allied" countries who engage in torture and every other human rights violation-I don't hear him condemning that. He was all gung ho against torture, until it came to putting his so called integrity on the line or towing the party line. He is nothing more than a pandering self righteous phony. Straight talk my ass!

Steve A Jonesboro IN (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:19 PM)

Even Fidel has realized that the old way of thinking just hasn't worked for his country. He is stepping down so that his brother can take Cuba into a new era. Barack has said the same thing for America..lets go into the future in a new direction because the old ways are not working anymore....does it really take a rocket scientist to figure out that now is the time for change!! What is the problem with Barack sitting down with with Raul? If both parties are willing to see the need the for change for their respective countries then I am all for it.

As for the person that keeps calling Barack "Pimp Daddy"....what is really wrong with you? Has he pimped you? Are you on the corner making money for him and he hit you because you were short??

Read E. Change, Tennessee (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:20 PM)

Didn't Reagan meet with world leaders? Some that he did not agree with? Wasn't Reagan known as the International Uniter, breaking down walls... and giving Democracy a chance in Russia? Didn't he reach out to dictators, in meetings and "summits"?
I believe Obama sets up meetings, possibly in a "neutral"" country...like a summit. Then he talks to the leaders, of Cuba, possibly. And he could say...Open up traveling restrictions for families in Cuba and the U.S, give your media freedom, Free political prisoners, and we will.....do "this" for you. (Maybe opening commerce between our two countries, not all, but a little. Maybe lifting some sanctions, and see how it progresses. If things don't work out, it's Cuba's choices that lead to the breakdown. Give them a carrot...instead of the cold shoulder!)
Something Reagan was known for.
BUsh has destroyed relations with just about everyone. Every bit of hard work that President Reagan did..has been destroyed by BUSH! President Reagan suceeded in building realtionships with world leaders, even if they weren't from a free democracy. He gave them diplomacy, respect, he listened, but most of all he SPOKE to these leaders. He made leaders believe they were an important part of the solutions for their own countries and their own legacy...by being able to speak to the President of the United States!
Reagan was GREAT at diplomacy and was held as the top WORLD LEADER in his time.
So, would we rather have a President like Bush, who arrogantly refuses to speak to dictators, and foreign leaders, like HILLARY AND McCAIN have said they will do? Or would we rather have a President that negotiates, and tries to bring the world a little closer to democracy, who LEADS BY EXAMPLE, as the President of a democracy, like Obama has said he will??
It's pretty simple. We need BUsh to go away...and anyone who thinks like him...he has detroyed our country at home and internationally!
Arrogance has been the Bush way.
Diplomacy was the Reagan way.
Not a real tough one to figure out people!

conPA (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:20 PM)

McCain doesn't get it....Hillary doesn't get it.
The American people want somebody who is willing to talk to our adversaries. Not just in other countries, but in Congress as well. We want people to talk. We want people to negotiate. We want a new way of doing business. We want results. That comes from talking and negotiating...not from ignoring your adversaries. It is becoming increasingly obvious that the McCain/Bush/Hillary strategy of ignoring your enemies, is the losing strategy in this election. The American people want more than that.

Al, KS (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:20 PM)

I thought McCain wanted to win the general election in November. Did I miss something? He MUST have changed his mind.

ladydemocrat, Annapolis MD (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:21 PM)

J.M. Stanley....
Why all the hate? I've been reading your "contributions" for a long time, they started out borderline bigot, but now you have evolved into a vicious, dumb, confederate flat waving idiot. You need professinal help, and soon!

A.Brocco,Albuquerque,NM (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:21 PM)

I think any President should make some gestures for talking to "enemies". The office of U.S. president has diminished worldwide and it is not a priviledge to hold over nations' heads. It's only makes you look weak. With our economy increasingly becomming dependant on other nations like China...it is imperitive we take the lead in negotiating and spreading our image and setting down demands(trade imbalances anyone!). Bush failed..and most dismiss him as a cowboy, look how we have already suffered because of that approach. Cuba is small potatoes..we could've bought that country if we wanted to..enough carrots and sticks would've unseated Castro long ago.

CJ (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:23 PM)

The general election is still 8+ months away. Can't we all just take a chill pill, mellow out for a sec, and post well thought out positions rather than diatribes. Name calling has no place here.

Phred, NH (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:23 PM)

The youth vote turnout for the Democratic Primaries and Caucuses have to absolutely frighten the Republicans. Do you honestly think that this youth vote, who has so much invested in Obama, is not going to turn out in November? Think again.

*****************************

Haven't people learned not to rely on the youth vote?

patty, sd, ca (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:24 PM)

Did John McCain sleep for the last couple of months? Did he see how Hillary lost? If he continues to say the same things that failed to provide a win for Hillary, he will be in for a big shock in November. I hope he continues on this path because the American people want something different...and it doesn't appear that McCain is providing anything new.

Al, KS (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:25 PM)

J. Merle and Patty: I think your rediculous, offensive, negative and hate-filled comments will be better suited on a Fox "News" blog. While you're over there, on behalf of Obama supporters, be sure to thank that windbag, whatever her name is (taking the effort to look up her name is a waste of my time), for supporting Clinton.

That said, fifty years of NOT talking to Cuba hasn't worked. It will be a breath of fresh air to have a leader that is willing to talk to leaders that the US doesn't see in a good light. Not only will it be good for the oppressed in those countries, but the general international dislike of America will be improved at the same time.

Rory, Missoula, MT (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:28 PM)

Patty, San Diego, CA (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:01 PM)
I thought it might have been a mis-choice of words at first but I have now seen multiple posts where you refer to Barrak Obama as "boy". You probably can't help your racism. You may have been raised that way but by now you realize that Obama's support is broad and deep and surely this must confuse and frighten you. Clearly the republican preference has been to run against Hillary Clinton. One only had to listen to any Republican "analyst" on the any talking head show to witness how were spinning for that outcome.
It is ok if you can't or won't understand. Racism will linger with us forever but it moves steadily toward the fringe of society where it belongs. Heal your heart if you can. But if you can't then get out of the way.

Obama '08

Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:29 PM)

I think J. Merle might actually BE John McCain - they use the same racially tinged attacks on Obama's policy and "naivete" (translation: this young Negro has no clue what he's talking about, only an old white guy like me can keep this country safe). I look forward to seeing that blow up in his face.

Brian, Las Vegas (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:29 PM)

And the priviledge of speaking with the President is ? Certainly McCain isn't opposed to open communications? With the "new" administration. Why should there be conditions attached to coming to the table to talk? That is what got us here in the first place. Accepting a lie at face value, then denying access all involved parties to the table. It makes no sense. You cannot resolve differences if you fail to attempt to arrive at understanding so everyone is on the same page and have the same definition of what the problem is.

We have to communicate, negotiate, give diplomacy a chance. Attempt, not bullying, but persuasion.

Let us not

Ladean (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:29 PM)

Didn't Republican presidents meet with leaders of the Soviet Union and China without getting any prisoners released, or media sanctioning lifted, etc?

This whole Cuba thing just smacks of either closed mindedness to anything different than what we've had, or as political pandering to the Cuban Americans in Miami.

Obama's point is why not see what comes out of a meeting - maybe by being the first to give something, such as the prestige of a presidential meeting, maybe we get something. The reverse is that we wait until the other side gives something first. In those terms, it sounds kinda childish.

And as Obama said last night and in response to the first time this became an issue, of course the administration will do prep work, to ensure it doesn't look like a lunch date or an endorsement of the other side.

Paul Miller, Woodbridge, VA (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:29 PM)

Rory, Missoula, MT (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:30 PM)

"We will soon be hearing the beautiful cliches uttered in the years of OBAMA."

Yeah, I'll miss "Is our children learning?"

"It'll be a cakewalk."

"Oil revenues will pay for the war."

"I'd say 'days and weeks, not months and YEARS'."

Cheney telling Senators to "F.O." on the Senate floor.

And who could ever forget "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED"?

Lee in CA (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:31 PM)

ummm what personal attacks?

Patty, sd, ca (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:17 PM)

-------------------------

Patty, just to refresh your memory, you did refer to Senator Obama as "boy".

Setting The Record Straight (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:31 PM)

How sad that we allow ourselves to be duped over and over again with rhetoric from politicians who have no regard for the U.S.A. whatsoever.
We support Saudi Arabia who is one of the most repressive nations in the world and have a long history of supporting dictatorships, such as Saddam Hussein and yet we allow ourselves to be sucked into meaningless debate that the politicians drum up when they want to keep our focus off the real issues. Our economy is probably beyond salvation, the Bush administration has rendered the constitution irrelevant and we are well on our way to becoming a third world nation but we still want to focus on issues that will do nothing to rescue us from this downward spiral.

john San Antonio (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:33 PM)

WOW how dare I disagree with the mob and the destiny child.

Sorry to tell you, not all of us have been hipnotized.

Patty, sd, ca (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:34 PM)

Patty, just to refresh your memory, you did refer to Senator Obama as "boy".
Setting The Record Straight (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:31 PM)

Isn't he a boy?

I am mistaken and he is really a girl?

PATTY, SD, CA (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:35 PM)

By the way, the pandering thing is a shame. I guess it can't be avoided, but think how different policies might be if given a different election calendar or map.

If Cuban Americans had picked a city in a state with less electoral college votes, would we have normalized relations with Cuba a long time ago? Maybe.

If Iowa wasn't first, would 10 percent of the fuel we put in our cars be ethanol? Probably not. There are other bio-fuels that are more efficient and less corrosive. But ethanol comes from corn.

Paul Miller, Woodbridge, VA (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:36 PM)

Haven't people learned not to rely on the youth vote?

Patty, that is the point I'm making. The youth have never been able to be relied on because they were never invested in their future. Obama has created that and they have responded by turning out for PRIMARIES and CAUCUSES in record numbers. If they are turning out for primaries and caucuses, I would assume that they are going to turn out in even greater numbers against McCain.

You see, I am 29 years old and still considered a kid to many of you baby boomers. Well, I can tell you that the 19-35 generation is not too happy with what the baby boomers have left us, a world worse off then the one left to them. And, believe me, we will fight hard to change it.

MNDem (Sent Friday, February 22, 2008 1:43 PM)

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