FL, MI reps to meet tonight

Posted: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 4:44 PM by Domenico Montanaro

From NBC's Mike Viqueira
The Florida and Michigan Democratic congressional delegations will meet together behind closed doors this evening to discuss their respective convention delegate situations.

Rep. Alcee Hastings has organized the confab. He says that it is not the first such gathering, but that the situation "became more complicated after yesterday," and this meeting has been called in reaction to the fact that the race continues. There were those who had hoped that things would be decided so that this issue could be glossed over, he says, but the results from Ohio and Texas "muddied the water."

Hastings, a Clinton supporter, says that the meeting is not expected to result in a definitive decision, but is needed to make sure everyone understands the state of play, both politically and procedurally.

He dismissed the notion that the GOP-controlled Florida legislation would allow Dems a "do-over," and regards the comments attributed today to Gov. Crist with skepticism. Hastings says the cost of such a re-do would be between $18 million and 20 million.

He says that senators from the two states are invited. There will be no reps from the Obama or Clinton campaigns, nor will Howard Dean be there.

The meeting is to take place in the Capitol later tonight after votes, perhaps 8ish.

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Comments

Bill Clinton called in on Rush Limbaugh's program on Monday (they had a fill in, Rush was out) and Bill said that he thinks they should be seated because Obama campaigned in FL ( he didn't) and that, get this, the candidates pulled their names off of the Michigan ballot because they knew Hillary was goint to win. The truth is that all candidates took a pledge not to campaign in those states in line with the DNC rules. It was the state delegation that caused the problem, why are they acting like victims here.

mie, dana point CA (Sent Wednesday, March 05, 2008 10:35 PM)

Florida citizens were told their votes would not count. For that simple reason Florida should hold another primary after a period of campaigning by both candidates.

Sue, Florida (Sent Wednesday, March 05, 2008 10:37 PM)

People need to remember that ALL Dem. candidates agreed not to put their names on the ballot in MI, because the rules were broken & the DNC said no delegates would be counted. Hillary broke her word, thereby betraying the voters & the other Dem. candidates. Then she claims she "won" in MI. Now since she is behind & cannot win legally, she wants the delegates counted.

I would have voted for Barack Obama, but did not vote at all, as we were told neither our votes or delegates would count. I would not have voted for Hillary, & now because of her lying & cheating & using Karl Rove-type tactics against a fellow Dem. (especially when it is sooo important that we take back the W.H.), I will NOT ever vote for her.
I am a white female, over 60 yrs old, & believe me, I am not the only one who feels this way.....by far.

Karen Izydorek, Caro, MI 48423 (Sent Wednesday, March 05, 2008 10:40 PM)

Cathy from TN- Seating delegates in Michigan when her name was the only one on the ballot is fair? We live in a democracy. The other candidates were following the rules, she was not. She can't have it both ways.

Heidi, IL (Sent Wednesday, March 05, 2008 10:41 PM)

If Hillary manipulates the system because of the Clinton contacts and history and gets the nomination and then loses, what does it say? It says that a woman can only be nominated because of her husband, and that by doing so she has destroyed the party. There won't be another woman with 1/2 a chance for 20 years. Stay within the rules, and let the elected delegates choose.

Justin, Atlanta, GA (Sent Wednesday, March 05, 2008 10:43 PM)

Note that if Hillary pushes for changing the rules, that may push Edwards to endorse Obama. Hillary had 50% in FL, Obama+Edwards is nearly 50%.
Also note that if you give Hillary 55% and Obama 45% of both MI and FL, she gains about 36 net delegates. A far cry from the 150 she's behind.

Justin, Atlanta, GA (Sent Wednesday, March 05, 2008 10:44 PM)

Two things.

1. Clinton knows she can't win the nomination but she wants to run again in 4 years against president McCain. To make that happen she must hurt Obama now.

2. That's really it.

Gillis (Sent Wednesday, March 05, 2008 10:45 PM)

The bottom line is, the Democratic party punished Florida and Michigan for breaking the rules. Fine. But if Florida and Michigan want to incur the expense of holding a new primary in accordance with the rules set down by the party, that is a perfectly reasonable resolution for the situation. And the alternative is that the will of two states worth of voters are disenfranchised from the process and the delegate count, that is intended to determine who the nominee will be, will be skewed by the failure to include those delegates in the final count. For the race to be tipped in favor of one candidate over another by such a technical foul, can only call the whole process
into question. Every vote must be counted.

Don, Winston-Salem, NC (Sent Wednesday, March 05, 2008 10:46 PM)

Edgar, you are right! I saw that Wasserman woman there too, also a Hillary supporter, so what's up? If there were NO Obama supporters I can tell you, there will be trouble!

LB, Virginia (Sent Wednesday, March 05, 2008 11:02 PM)

Dianne, Oh yea, so does Obama get UNDECIDED? If you are so dumb that you thought your vote counted we can't help that, the rest of the US knew they wouldn't count!!

LB, Virginia (Sent Wednesday, March 05, 2008 11:04 PM)

Absolutly not who wants to revote, how about lets do everything over once is enough. First we voters are not the ones who changed things. Second I cannot help those who took their names off the ballot and why should I. The only thing they agreed not to do was campagine. No way will I redo a vote nor should I. It was done once and that is the fact of the matter. This is not a crime against Mr. Obama it is a crime against the voters in Micigan and Florida. So no I won't suck it up. I will not tell my children that it is their time to be heard I won't lie to them when we are treated as if we do not exist. So no I voted once and will not again nor will many others. We are angry and if we don't count now we won't count then! WE WON'T VOTE AT ALL!

Janice Newton Oleans, Michigan (Sent Wednesday, March 05, 2008 11:08 PM)

I believe that the delegates from Michigan and Florida should be seated at the convention and their votes should count. Since when do we discount what the American people vote for? Since when do we use "rules of law" to punish law abiding voting citizens...democrat or republican? Since when do we act so carelessly with the belief and wishes of the American People. This is a United States, remember. Let the people decide if the vote stands or there is a do over...let the people decide...this is their country! I am a Democrat, and I say my party does not have the right to make the decision they made when it discounts the voice of the American People.

E. Carnegie, Houston, Texas (Sent Wednesday, March 05, 2008 11:13 PM)

To make it fair. Let's count FL, but in PA Clinton cannot campaign only Obama can.

----------
Wake up people, why won't Hillary show us the taxes before the primary?

She doesn't want the Blue collars to know she is a Gold collar.

AC in LA CA (Sent Wednesday, March 05, 2008 11:15 PM)

Here's another tidbit for all you complainers of changing the rules! I thought MR. Obama was all about change! GET REAL the only change he cares about is weather it helps him. It is like watching people get all hyped over a pyramid scheme like Amway and becomming AWESTRUCK! He and Edwards took their names off the ballot. People had another option if they supported either of them. So get off the high horse. The issue is you about rights not your candidate!

Janice Newton Oleans, Michigan (Sent Wednesday, March 05, 2008 11:19 PM)

I can't believe the stuff I'm reading in these comments. We're all supposed to be Democrats, people. And for a Democrat to think it's okay to count votes in Michigan where Obama wasn't even on the ballot, well, that's just downright dirty Republican thinking. Also, to suggest that it's okay for Hillary keep her votes in Florida is equally baffling. Hillary is a well known candidate, people are familiar with her and what she stands for. So, of course she would win in a place like Florida where there are so many older voters who are just going to go with what they are comfortable with. Obama needs an opportunity to campaign in Florida so the public can come to better know him. The reality is that the whole Florida and Michigan issue is a moot point. If we were to redo these primaries it would only further drag out this process, allowing the Republicans to have the advantage. We cannot let our party continue to fracture; this election means too much. So we need to suck it up, people, and start rallying behind a single candidate. We should remember that the whole reason this is happening in the first place is that we have two outstanding candidates from which to choose.

Sandy, Houston, TX (Sent Wednesday, March 05, 2008 11:37 PM)

I think Howard Dean is right. We should follow the rules, and the rules stipulate that a "do-over" is acceptable. Hence a do over is the only solution that is both fair, and within the rules. Plus, campaigning in those 2 states will only help the Dems.
The devil, however, will be in the details. Primary? Caucus? Open to independets? Closed? And can they do it before June?

Rational Thinker, Eden Prairie, MN (Sent Wednesday, March 05, 2008 11:44 PM)

rules are rules why is it Hillary keeps trying to change them? She will do anything to win. Hillary Rodham Clinton's campaign is playing the race card - by darkening the tone of Barack Obama's skin in a new TV attack ad. "Call me crazy, but it certainly appears to me that Sen. Obama's skin tone is significantly darker in the Clinton campaign commercial" than it appeared in the debate, wrote J. Thomas Cronin, who blogs on the Daily Kos Web site.
Obama 08 YES WE WILL

Charlez,Syracuse,NY (Sent Wednesday, March 05, 2008 11:55 PM)

The DNC advised the States of Florida and Michigan of the consequences of their proposed date changes for their primaries. They chose to proceed. All of your arguments are moot. The citizens of these states should express their anger with their election representatives. THEY took your vote away! Another example of egomaniac politicians consumed by their own quest for power and glory. Now they're crying around like spoiled children, as though they had no idea what they were doing. Well I say too bad! Rules are made for everyone to follow. There should be no special treatment, no one-time allowances. They are educated people who understand democracy, and who understood what the rules were.

Pay Attention People (Sent Thursday, March 06, 2008 12:54 AM)

If Michigan and Florida get do-overs, I want a do-over primary in California.

This is an entirely reasonable request. My Democratic state party officials, representing me (though an independent I voted in the Democratic primary), played by the rules and I got to vote on February 5. If other voters in other states get to revote now, I want a chance for the voters in my state to reconsider their position as well. And I want California to have an influence at this stage of the race.

In fact, if we are going to hold do-over primaries, then I want all the states that have voted prior to a do-over decision to be able to stand up and say, "we want a do-over." This might very well break the "deadlock" between the two major candidates.

And then again, it might not.

It's highly likely that even if we had do-overs in every state that the deadlock would be repeated. It's also likely that do-overs in Michigan and Florida will have the same deadlocked result.

The race for the Democratic nomination, is winding down (in spite of the frenzy in the media) to a conclusion one way or another. The Michigan and Florida delegations should not be seated. Superdelegates should exercise their vote in whatever way they feel is best for the party and the nation. And the candidates should play by the rules, get out the vote in the states with primaries and caucuses remaining, and try to influence those superdelegates to vote their way.

Mark Gonzales, Mammoth Lakes, Calif. (Sent Thursday, March 06, 2008 1:05 AM)

As a Florida resident, I was told by a Republican Governor when I had to vote, period, we had to vote when we did, we had no choice, Both candidates were on our ballot, I understand Obama removed his from the Michigan ballot, however he did campaign here, Hillary did not. Our vote here in Florida should be counted. I am getting sick and tired of the few making the decisions that affect so many of us.

Eugenia Beattie, Crawfordville, Fl (Sent Thursday, March 06, 2008 1:11 AM)

Would Hillary want Florida and Michigan's delegate to be setted if she was one hundred thirty delegates ahead and had lost Florida and Michigan?

Rich (Sent Thursday, March 06, 2008 1:44 AM)

Hastings, a stooge for Clinton. Isn't he the only federal judge to be impeached? Way to go democrats, and why should the tax payers be made to pay for these additional election cost. DON'T COUNT THE DELEGATES.

Robert, Sacramento, CA (Sent Thursday, March 06, 2008 1:46 AM)

Would Hillary want Florida and Michigan's delegate to be setted if she was one hundred thirty delegates ahead and had lost Florida and Michigan?

Rich (Sent Thursday, March 06, 2008 1:49 AM)

Disgruntled voter, Miami, Fla (Sent Thursday, March 06, 2008 5:01 AM)

I want my vote to count, The DNC need to thank about what would happen if florida & Michigan is not counted.No way Obama or Clinton can the general election.

Bill (Sent Thursday, March 06, 2008 5:11 AM)

The rules were established early on....Fl and MI leaders decided to ignore them.

And now they want a do-over?

Would that be like a shoplifter, who knows this against the rule of law, does so anyway, gets caught and asks to return the item to the shelf months later when facing the difficult penalty?

FL and MI can make their voices heard....at the doorstep of their leadership who took them down this road of short sightedness.

You do not reward them later with a do-over! Geez.

No seats before the nomination, no do-over. Your leaders made the bad call....live with the consequences and make your opinions known to them...not the Dem Party.

Jayne, NH (Sent Thursday, March 06, 2008 5:39 AM)

All Americans share the most basic right given by our Country and that is the right to vote and the vote be counted!

Regardless of out-come!

Becky, Milo, Iowa (Sent Thursday, March 06, 2008 6:12 AM)

The party of "hanging chads" is not the party of hypocrisy. Let democracy rule!!!!

CM, Pensylvania (Sent Thursday, March 06, 2008 6:46 AM)

Are you kidding? Hillary has warned us she'd push for this ever since she started losing. Florida and Michigan were punished. They knew the rules before they broke them. Do you honestly believe Hillary would have un-punished Chelsea when she was growing up? Once again, the Clintons show their lack of morals in their fight for a win. They will win at any cost - even when it teaches Americans the wrong lesson. PLEASE, NO MORE CLINTONS!!!!!!! I used to be for Hillary - can no longer support her currupt ways.

NoLonger4Hillary (Sent Thursday, March 06, 2008 6:58 AM)

FLorida's Primary was designed by its GOP controlled legislation to disenfranchise it's democratic voters. It was the GOP legislation that voted to move up the State's primary. The legislation knew that it was against the Dem rule when they voted So now the Governor cares about the Dem delegates being seated. The FL dem voters should be going after their Governor for disenfranchising them. No make over. You live by the sword, die by the sword.

D, San Antonio, Texas (Sent Thursday, March 06, 2008 7:04 AM)

We do not need anyone to campaign in Florida, we have had access to a lot of the campaigns on TV. O'Bama had the advantage of having TV ads run in Florida. A do over primary or a caucus would be too expensive as Florida's budget is in a strain now. Also a summer vote would exclude many of the people that voted in January. I assume the Republicans in this state want one of theirs in office more than the Democrats. They also held early primaries, but their party only took 1/2 of their delegates. I am an independent but with democratic leanings.I will remain an independent because I do not beleive anyone in this country should be refused to pick the person they think should be the President of the USA. Obviously there are more fair states that allow any one to cast a vote for the person they think would benefit them & our country in other states. Their should be a national law. Affiliations with Political parties should be confined to promoting their candidate of choice and should have nothing to do with the individuals voting ability. The audacity of this amazes me! It should you too, whether you want O'Bama or Clinton in the White House. Freedom of choice should concern all citizens.

Jano,Clearwater,Fl (Sent Thursday, March 06, 2008 7:33 AM)

The best news was that Howard "Duck" Dean would not be at that meeting. Wise move. He is part of the stinking power structure that punished people in his own party for something over which they had no control. This should have been "fixed" before the Michigan Primary, and since it wasn't, history will write this off as one of the stupidest decisions the Dem. Party ever made. There's your legacy, Howard Dean. Thanks for screwing up the Primary process, the delegate vote, and leaving these people disenfranchised. We will remember you always after your butt is kicked out the door and down the road, and good riddance. Oh, and if the Super Delegates have to settle this race, I hope newspapers slap your picture right beside the headlines "Debacle" and "Riot at the Democratic Convention."

Lifelong Southern Democrat (Sent Thursday, March 06, 2008 7:38 AM)

To say it was the MI and FL own fault is a bit unfair.

Florida's primary was moved up by the REPUBLICAN governor Charlie Crist - he is now offering to pay for a re-run - it's his fault and I think we should take up that offer.

If we don't we will lose Florida in November.

Michigan was slightly different - the main mover was Democratic senator and it was supported by the state senate - by both REPUBLICANS and Democrats. The first primary was paid for by the state of Michigan NOT the parties so technically speaking the Democratic Party should be able to finance a re-run there as well.

States that moved up primaries or caucuses without penalty include:

* Iowa
* New Hampshire
* Nevada
* South Carolina
* Alaska
* Arizona
* Arkansas
* California
* Colorado
* Connecticut
* Georgia
* Idaho
* Illinois
* Massachusetts
* Minnesota
* Missouri
* New Jersey
* New York
* Oklahoma
* Tennessee
* Utah
* Maryland

In fact it would have been easier to lists states that have NOT moved primaries and caucuses than those who have!!

Why were they allowed to move their elections up without penalty yet Michigan and Florida were not?

I know that some said it was because New Hampshire and Iowa have always been first.

Why was February 5 seen as the cut-off point for movement?

Why was South Carolina or Nevada not treated as Florida and Michigan?

Why should some states be allowed to move and others are not?

Why should some states have more of an influence over the nomination process than other states?

Disgruntled Voter, Miami, Fla (Sent Thursday, March 06, 2008 7:46 AM)

If voters in Michigan and Florida had wanted their votes to count, they should have petitioned their committee to move the primaries as requested. By holding their primaries early, the states broke the law and their votes can't be counted. That's just the way it is. Allowing the delegates to be seated now would just reward them for their rulebreaking.

Lauren Hunter, Alexandria, VA (Sent Thursday, March 06, 2008 7:51 AM)

This is a joke. The party that fought so long in florida to make sure every vote counted. Now tells two states they don't count. They have disenfrancised two states. This is really making your vote count florida and michigan. You should be mad as hell that the dnc thinks you don't count.

kevin minnesota (Sent Thursday, March 06, 2008 7:58 AM)

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