FL senator warns of 'train wreck'

Posted: Thursday, March 06, 2008 4:19 PM by Domenico Montanaro

From NBC’s Ken Strickland
Florida Democratic Sen. Bill Nelson today wrote a letter asking DNC Chairman Howard Dean to either seat their delegates in accordance with our primary results, or pay for the state to hold a new primary. Without a resolution, Nelson said, "We're coming on the biggest train wreck you've ever seen."

"If they go to the Democratic convention and stiff arm the Florida delegation,” Nelson said, “how in the world do you think Floridians are going to support the Democratic nominee ... only two months after the Democratic convention?”

Nelson also told reporters outside the Senate Chamber, "The DNC has a responsibility because they took it out on Florida, not what Florida Democrats did, but what the Republican legislature -- signed into law by the Republican Governor -- did in changing the date."

He says the measure that authorized moving the primary to January, in violation of DNC rules, was part of a broader election machine reform bill. Nelson, a Clinton supporter, adds that the Florida state legislature's Democratic leader offered an amendment to move back to Feb. 5th, but was defeated.

"So the Florida Democrats come into this with clean hands," he pleaded. "But I couldn't get Howard Dean and the DNC last summer to understand this."

This is something the state party argued in August of 2007 before the DNC’s Rules and Bylaws Committee. The committee, though, rejected the argument, saying there was not a “good faith effort” made by Florida Democrats to defeat the measure.

Nelson says Florida Republican Gov. Charlie Crist agreed to cooperate to set up the elections if someone else picked up the tab. The last primary cost about $18 million, according to Nelson, with 1.75 million Democrats voting.

"The principle here is one person, one vote," he said calling up the ghost of the 2000 Bush-Gore election. "And by the way, we're a little sensitive about that principle in the state of Florida. Do I need to remind you about that in 2000?"

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Comments

What a joke the Democrats have become. Every election, they have yet another major problem voting. If Republicans had the same problems, the media would be all over them for how stupid they are in that they can't even vote correctly. Because it's the Democrats though, we get these pompous statements from Democratic Senators and Congressmen about how they are going to fix the problem, only to watch them as they make the problem worse. The ship has sailed though on the Democrats for this election cycle. They are going to have to live with their huge mistakes and not allow the Michigan or Florida delegates to contribute their votes at the convention.

Sarah Wilks, Cedarburg KS (Sent Thursday, March 06, 2008 5:03 PM)

Strong arm all you want. Florida KNEW they would forfeit their delegates if they moved up the primary and they AGREED to it! Now that the numbers aren't going the way Clinton wants them to go, we should allow a re-vote? I THINK NOT. The DNC batter NOT pay for a re-vote. If Florida wants a re-vote, then Florida tax payers should pay for it. If the people of Florida don't like it, then take it to the polling place when you elect a new Governor. Don't make it the nations problem (again). We should have Florida ruin ANOTHER election? I think not! If you can't play by the rules, then you can't play in MY sandbox. The Super Delegates should decide on the nominee and it should be based on the candidate with the most delegates and that, Mrs. Clinton, is Barack Obama. Since you underestimated him from the beginning and thought he was a fly in your soup, you have stooped to a level where, if you're the nominee, I absolutely WILL NOT vote for you. Time for you and your husband to rest somewhere on a beach with your millions gathered illegally. What about those tax returns, by the way? Good-bye to the Clinton/Bush era.
Hard to believe you have any supporters after the way you've handled yourself in this campaign.....and you have the audacity to tell Obama to run a clean, positive campgain? You have put ANY woman who wants to run for office BACK about 200 years. Shame on you, Hillary. Shame on you.

Diane from Illinois (Sent Thursday, March 06, 2008 5:04 PM)

Hello, Bill Nelson endorsed Clinton way back in January. http://www.floridacounts.com/index.php?news=1754

How is it suddenly "news" that a Clinton supporter wants the delegates seated from this unofficially election. They've been saying this for weeks.

C'mon MSNBC, point out that this guy is biased at least. You have to take what he claims with a huge grain of salt.

Adam, Chicago (Sent Thursday, March 06, 2008 5:04 PM)

There should be a re-vote in Florida. What none of the Clinton advocates mention (why should they) is that she has the GREATEST name recognition in American politics (equal to George Bush).

In a campaign in which a little-known Senator is attempting to defeat the incumbent and the "inevitable" candidate, if both candidates agree not to campaign, it's a GIVEN that the first candidate will win.

Therefore, the first vote is a fraud. HOWEVER, the citizens of Florida should be heard from. There's only one right move here.

Just the Facts (Sent Thursday, March 06, 2008 5:04 PM)

Florida is screwed. The time to complain was when the DNC took away their voting rights last year, not now. The only people that will profit from this latest Dem mess will be the lawyers because this one is going to court. This time though it's Democrats against Democrats. The entire country will get to see in open court how stupid the Democrats are.

Sachel, GA (Sent Thursday, March 06, 2008 5:06 PM)

Well, well, well.... Why didn't these officials insist that some form of provision be made from last year? It is only now that HRC is facing difficulty her and her backers decide to wreck the train. Classic HRC machinery, change the rule in the middle of the game, wreck the train at any cost. SENATOR NELSON, IF OBAMA WERE LAGGING BEHIND IN DELEGATE WOULD YOU THREATEN TO WRECK THE TRAIN IF FLORIDA IS NOT SEATED........TELL THE TRUTH NOW SENATOR.

Joan P. Stewart, Brooklyn, NY (Sent Thursday, March 06, 2008 5:09 PM)

I'm from Florida, and I'm mad as heck that our votes will not count for the Democrats. Eight years ago it was the Republicans stealing our votes, but this time we only have our own Democrats to blame for the problem. If our votes are never going to count, I'll find something else to do on election day. Howard Dean, and the state Democratic party, are the sorriest bunch of polititians I've ever seen.

Mary Welsh, Sarasota (Sent Thursday, March 06, 2008 5:11 PM)

Nelson, stop campaigning for Clinton under the guise of caring about Floridians. You could have done that last year but somehow it wasn't that important then. Too bad, so sad. If you want Florida representation at the Convention seat a delegation of half Obama and half Clinton delegates and then they can participate. To give them any decision in the primary is wrong and you know it. They didn't follow the rules, they don't get to decide. But they can be present at the Convention. Nothing else would be fair unless you convince your Republican brethren in the Florida Legislature to pay for the new primary. Why should the Party pay for YOUR stupidity. Stop whining now.

Debra Austin, Texas (Sent Thursday, March 06, 2008 5:11 PM)

I think the people who CAUSED that train wreck, should be held accountable, but of course, I doubt you agree with that sentiment, Senator Nelson. From what I recall, this whole mess was caused by gung-ho Florida politicians not playing by the rules. Is it or is it not fair for the people to suffer because of Florida's politicians? Maybe Florida's politicians should have to pay for the mess they created...

Ron, TX (Sent Thursday, March 06, 2008 5:12 PM)

Suggestion: Each Florida voter pays $10.

Bob, Illinois (Sent Thursday, March 06, 2008 5:12 PM)

Better yet let Hillary Clinton pay for the do-over. Her ass is the one that demands the delegates get seated.

Matt (Sent Thursday, March 06, 2008 5:12 PM)

Republican Gov. Charlie Crist is playing this perfect. Just stay out of the way of this train wreck Charlie. Let it happen. Between the states fighting with the DNC, and Obama fighting with the Clintons, it's going to be quite a pile up for the Democrats.

Luc Lawton (Sent Thursday, March 06, 2008 5:14 PM)

not a good faith measure to...WHAT? The Republicans have the control to vote it in and they did - end of story - the votes should count/Hillary won the state -chalk up the delegates to the other First Read article and she is closing the gap

tsg (Sent Thursday, March 06, 2008 5:14 PM)

I think everyone agrees on a do-over, but Florida isn't going to pay for it, the DNC isn't going to pay for it, and the campaigns darned sure aren't going to pay for it. And there should be a do-over for Michigan, too, but nobody is going to pay for that either.

No matter how it works out, you have to have do-over for both states or you have to stick to the rules that were in place when they had the original votes - no delegates. You can't just arbitrarily decide you're going to seat the delegates from the original vote just because an influential person won in the non-contests.

Sam Shaw (Sent Thursday, March 06, 2008 5:18 PM)

Sorry !!
Nobody told you clowns to have your primary ahead of time !

Florida and Michigan politicians screwed this up
You KNEW you were breaking the rules
But you wanted to be players

Too BAD
You decided to break the rules....
Now live with it
Demolcrats don't owe you anything....

Senator Nelson, where were you when this 'primary' was scheduled ?
Did you speak out against this rules violation ?
Did you fight against this rules violation ?

How about those clowns in Michigan ?

la la la la la
Hillary's minions get bitch slapped !!

Hillary Clinton, cold, calculating, dishonest, unethical, divisive, power hungry

Sierra, SF (Sent Thursday, March 06, 2008 5:20 PM)

"The principle here is one person, one vote," . This brings up Texas, Gore-Bush, it was determine Bush won Texas because of the delegate count not the popular vote - yet if the caucuses continue as they are Obama will have won Texas will it then be determined that he won Texas with delegates and not Hillary.....Hmmmm

Pat, Renton, WA (Sent Thursday, March 06, 2008 5:21 PM)

Does anyone know what happens to the delegates pledged to John Edwards at the convention. Are they free to vote for another candidate since Edwards in no longer in the race?

Diane Fields, Bayport, New York (Sent Thursday, March 06, 2008 5:22 PM)

I agree completely with the Senator. We can not start to disenfranchise millions of voters. It will certainly not bode well for democrats in November. Either seat the delegates as they are or hold a new primary. That is the only fair solution to the people of Florida.

Michael, Miami Beach, FL (Sent Thursday, March 06, 2008 5:22 PM)

Michigan and Florida delegates should be seated: 50/50. They lost their chance to be relevant to this process. In Florida, the Dems can "thank" the GOP. In Michigan, the Dems have only their own leaders to blame. Tough.

Bob in Denver (Sent Thursday, March 06, 2008 5:24 PM)

Remember when the Republicans cried foul in Florida in 2000 because they didn't like the way the election went? Well, back to the future we go with Ms. Clinton. She is willing to change the rules in the middle of the game, rules she agreed to, for her own political gain. That's cheating where I come from.

The FL and WI Democratic parties put themselves in a corner that looks just as unsavory to me as what happened in 2000. They wanted to be big players and it backfired on them. Me first, me first! Pride goeth before the fall. The Democrats have lost their moral high ground on this issue thanks to Ms. Clinton's behavior.

If the states want to do the right thing, they will scrap what they did in January and have another vote. I heard a FL rep. say last night on the News Hour that a mail-in vote would cost the state $4 to $5 million (as opposed to $25 million) and could generate more than a million new voters. Sounds like a solution to me. The states broke the rules and they should have to ante up for a new vote.

Gail in TN (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 8:48 AM)

I don't understand the opinons of why the DNC should pay for new primaries? These states new the rules and were told what would happen if they moved the primary and they did it anyway. I think we all know why it's so important to be allowed now...HRC??? This isn't about what is fair for the voters of these two states, what about what is fair to the rest of the voters in this country that did abide and vote by the rules. Those people should count to.

Vic, Toledo, Ohio. (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 8:48 AM)

Why aren't you talking about Clinton's people talking to Canada about NAFTA - pssst- take it with a grain of salt.

COME ON MSNBC - PARTICULARLY YOU MR. TODD -

Debbie G (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 9:02 AM)

Both states should pay for their own "redo" primaries. Think of it like a relay race.. there are rules to follow and this one was simple, the race hadn't started yet. They were warned.

The Florida democrates were screwed by the republicans, which the DNC should have taken into account. Maybe the florida democrates (unless they benefited at all from the new law)should make the florida republicans pay for the new primary.

Shane, Lititz, Pa (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 9:02 AM)

i want my vote counted that i did in florida. Just not right. i took my time and wasted it I guess. Obama not for every american, especially if you live in florida. if Obama dosnt want my vote to count in the florida primary he certaintly wont get mine in november if he sneaks in to be the nominee. And im sure most of us in florida feels the same.

bill (i guess im not american since i live in florida) (Sent Tuesday, May 06, 2008 11:19 PM)

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