ABOUT FIRST READ

First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



The delegate fight: FL and MI

Posted: Friday, March 07, 2008 9:09 AM by Mark Murray
Filed Under:

"I'll leave it up to the Democratic National Committee to make a decision about how to resolve it," Obama told ABC News last night. "But I certainly want to make sure that we've got Michigan and Florida delegates at the convention in some fashion." 
 
What say you, Howard Dean? “‘All they have to do is come before us with rules that fit into what they agreed to a year and a half ago, and then they'll be seated,’ the DNC chairman said, during a round of interviews Thursday on network and cable TV news programs. The two state parties will have to find the funds to pay for new contests without help from the national party, Dean said. ‘We can't afford to do that. That's not our problem. We need our money to win the presidential race,’ he said. The DNC offered to pay for an alternative contest in Florida last summer but was turned down, officials at the party say.”

Per the New York Times, "Granholm, a Clinton supporter, said Thursday that there would be a noisy protest at the Democratic convention if the Michigan delegation was not seated. But she left open the possibility of a new Democratic primary, as long as the taxpayers or the state party do not have to foot the bill. ‘If there is a redo, it has to be inclusive,’ she said. ‘Whatever it is would have to be a primary-like election.’”

“Florida officials said rerunning a statewide primary could cost as much as $18 million, which some state officials consider prohibitive. ‘A revote is not going to happen,’ said Representative Debbie Wasserman Schultz of Florida, a supporter of Mrs. Clinton. Michigan officials did not estimate the cost of a new election, but party leaders involved in negotiating a solution said that a full statewide election, as opposed to a caucus, could cost as much as $10 million."

More from Granholm: "’Although there have been a lot of conversations about how to assure that our delegation is seated, the logistics and cost of any firehouse primary may simply be insurmountable,’ said Liz Boyd, Granholm's press secretary. Granholm's comment instantly deflated hopes in Michigan of finding a solution, barely a day after expressions of optimism. ‘That took the oxygen out of the room,’ said one Democrat in the middle of the discussions, who talked about the deliberations on the condition of anonymity. ‘I'm regrouping.’” 

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Hey...I have an idea....since Obama's campaign is raising soooo much more money than Clinton's, how about the Obama campaign step up and pay the $28 million needed to hold new primaries in FL and MI?

Come on, Obama.....put your money where your mouth is.  You're have so much momentum that you'll probably win both primaries.  Sounds like it would be a good investment for you.
Protests. It's what the Democrats do best.
I have the perfect solution to both states. It has bee stated that ALOT of people for both Hillary and Sen. Obama did not vote because they did not believe that their votes would count. Since it is a record of the people who cast a ballot in both states simply allow the voters who DID NOT VOTE TO VOTE IN FL. AND MI. ALSO ALLOW THE PEOPLE IN MI WHO WAS TOLD TO VOTE UNCOMMITTED TO CHANGE THEIR VOTE TO EITHER CANDIDATE. Now this should appease all parties involved and should be more cost prohibitive than a complete re-vote.
I've said this all along.

The rules can't change...everyone advocating for a rules change now has some sort of bias.

The Dems will never (OK, realistically, not for a good long time) recover from this if people feel that the election was stolen from one candidate to give to the other.

I bear no ill will to the rank and file people in FLA and Mich.  I would be flipping mad if they had done that in my State.  But I would rather not have my vote counted than for people to change the rules to advantage one candidate.

I can certainly tolerate a revote.  It is the most fair to change the rules if people feel that's truly in the COUNTRY's interest.  But if the DNC has to pay for it, that's a lot less money to battle the Republicans for the General.  And look who's asking for it?  Oh, the Republican governor who put us in this place.  Wonderful, welcome to America.

I support Howard Dean in his effort to adhere to the rules.  I did contact the DNC and say that.

IN MY OPINION THERE SHOULD BE NO DOUBT ABOUT IT IN FLORIDA.  HILLARY WON FAIR AND SQUARE.  DO THE MICHIGAN PRIMARY OVER.  IF OBAMA HAD BEEN THE BIG WINNER IN FLORIDA, THERE WOULD BE NO QUESTION ABOUT IT.  THE MEDIA WOULD PRESS ON FOR FLORIDA VOTERS TO HAVE THEIR SAY. Is THIS RACE STILL ONE SIDED IN THE MEDIA?  YOU BET It IS.
 
Why should Obama foot the entire bill when it is Hillary wanting to push the issue?  All he did was FOLLOW THE RULES! But let's penalize him for that.  Sounds totally fair.  And why can't Hillary raise as much money as Obama if she is such a great candidate?  The solution needs to be fair to all involved, not just to your candidate.
I am an Obama supporter but would still say they shouldn't count as is even if he had won.  It isn't fair to the other candidate, the people who didn't vote, and the other states who followed the rules and may have their votes invalidated by an unfair representation in these states.  It's not about who won, it's about what's right and fair.
You don't change the rules in the middle of the game. Period. Dirty business.
Yellow Dog--

It’s completely ludicrous to say that Hillary won Florida fair and square.  What about all the people who didn’t vote because they new their votes wouldn’t count?  

Those people were disenfranchised by the decision to move the primary date and the subsequent decision to strip Florida of their democratic delegates.  Counting Florida as-is is not democratic.  It’s difficult enough to get people to take time out of their busy lives to vote—expecting that people would do this in any accurately representative way of how the voters feel in Florida when they all KNEW it didn’t matter is absurd.
EARLY VOTING WENT ON IN FLORIDA. IT STARTED AFTER HE WIN IN NEW HAMPSHIRE.THERE WAS ALSO A TAX ISSUE ON THE BALLOT IN FLORIDA.THAT IS WHY THERE WAS HIGH VOTER TURN OUT ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE. IN EVERY STATE THERE WAS HIGHER VOTER TURN OUT ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE BUT NOT IN FLORIDA.SO WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU? BOTH STATES DID A STUPID THING BY MOVING THERE ELECTIONS UP BUT IT ONLY FAIR TO BOTH CANDIDATES THAT NEW ELECTIONS ARE HELD IN BOTH STATES.
Ok,let's say John Edwards won Florida and Michigan and thease delegates were needed to make a definitive decision for either Clinton or Obama. Would a second full election,not caucus be held tomorrow. You bet in would, no question about it. So let's put Florida and Michigan primaries back on the calander. Who pays for it ?The states,it was their decision to make the change, and disinfranchise "their" voters. The only solution to this fiasco, is new elections.We Floridians will "fire" our Gov. Crist during the next election,for bring on this planed fiasco.
Lindey loue << Protests. It's what the Democrats do best.News Flash! It is called hlthy discent/free speech. Unlike The GOP which puts PARTY LOYALTY FIRST. Sounds like what Chavez has in Venezuela and the pathetic Contract with America in 1994 that gop foisted on the United States. If you like your fascism go the former.
DEAR SUSAN
YOU CAN TELL YOU ARE FOR OBAMA...I AM FROM FLORIDA AND DID VOTE AS MANY MANY PEOPLE DID,CONSIDERING WE HAD TO VOTE ON A BILL THAT WOULD SAVE PEOPLE FROM LOSING THEIR HOMES!!!AND ONCE AGAIN I HEARD OBAMA ADS ON THE RADIO,SO FOLLOW THE RULES YOU SAY....
I SAY DRINK SOME MORE KOOLAID OBAMA ONLY MAKES SOME PEOPLE THINK HE FOLLOWS ANY RULE
Looks like Barack will win Texas after all, thanks to the Texas caucuses.  Where's the Press on this?
http://infogiant.wordpress.com/2008/03/06/hillary-wins-texas-oh-waitno-she-didnt/

Looks like Hillary was responsible for the Canadian/Nafta debaucle after all.  Where's the Press on this?  Click on the word "round-up"
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/03/the-truth-about.html

What's all this nonsense about Rezko, which has been explained and fact-checked.  Rezko's current legal troubles have nothing to do with Barack, but the media keeps harping on it.  On the other hand, the Clinton's have an upcoming lawsuit against them regarding campaign funds fraud, and yet no coverage in the media on this.  Where's the outrage?  
http://www.peterfpaul.com/2008/03/05/media-protects-hillarys-role-in-bill-clintons-civil-fraud-case-in-los-angeles/
Stick to the rules that were set by the DNC initially.

FL. voters knew, unless they were living under a rock, that their votes for a Presidential candidate would not be counted.

FL had another issue on the ballot.. Amendment 1 that had to be voted on.  

I am a Registered Independent voter.  I could have changed my affiliation and voted but that would have been an exercise in futility as the vote would not count.

I did vote on Amendment 1.

The DNC attempted to play "Hardball" with FL and MI but the states did not capitulate.

The rules were set down prior to the primaries.  They should be adhered to.

No redo!!!!

Oh yes Hillary Clinton states she will not agree to a caucus.  So now she is "The Decider"

Just like the Clintons.  Clinton rules for the Clintons.  Clinton rules for everyone else.

She lost my vote along time ago.
No they wouldn't.  If John Edwards had won both states then this wouldn't be an issue right now, because then both candidates wouldn't feel a need to push for an advantage.  They would have probably come up with a fair and reasonable solution for both campaigns by now.  It kind of makes me wish that Edwards had won.
I ALONG WITH SVERAL THOUSAND FELLOW DEMOCRATS HERE IN FLORIDA ARE FILING A CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT.OUR VOTES WILL BE HEARD....
Florida always messes up elections.  Michigan, wise up and don't follow that sorry state's history in election scandals.  Now is the time to give Florida back to Spain!
Sharon,

There were also many people who did not vote.  And like I said, I would still feel the same even if Obama had won.  Rules are rules and fair is fair, regardless of how the Clinton supporters want to spin this.  

Are you saying that if Obama had won you and the rest of Hillary's supporters would still want to count it as is?  Oh I forgot it depends on what the meaning of 'is' is!
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
LITTLE ROCK — Federal archivists at the Clinton Presidential Library are blocking the release of hundreds of pages of White House papers on pardons that the former president approved, including clemency for fugitive commodities trader Marc Rich.
That archivists' decision, based on guidance provided by Bill Clinton .......
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
MSNBC Please stop saying that Hillary "won" Michigan.
Hillary claiming victory in Michigan is exactly like Putin claiming victory in Russia.
It’s not democracy when you’re the only real choice on the ballot.
If the state democratic committees want to pay for a "do over", fine - both candidates get an equal chance.
And maybe they will pay more attention when a governor manipulates the process.
Oh by the way, even though Hillary agreed to not campaign in Florida, she still showed up and campaigned the NIGHT BEFORE THE ELECTION!  So your arguement does not hold water.
Florida and Michigan should either Not count or hold caucuses. Here is why:

The contests were unfair to begin with - they voted early and Hillary has a "name brand" - hers is the default, the most recognizable name.

In addition, she was the ONLY name on the ballot in Michigan, if we count that result, we may as well call her Comrade Clinton.

Hillary is on and on about how Florida and Michigan should get a say - but she has dismissed out of hand the most fair, practical and economical solution - a caucus.

A primary would be prohibitively expensive, and the state would have to pay for it, taking millions away from what? children's healthcare? (the states still pay a portion of SCHIP) Elder care? education? WHERE is the money for the primary?  Oh, and by the way, Michigan is beyond BROKE already - but hey, anything for Hillary.

Yes Hillary cares deeply for the voters, so much so that she will demand that the state spend WAY more money to vote HER WAY...

THE PARTY, not the state, should pay for caucuses, which would be cheaper. The DNC created this mess, if they want to fix it - this is how...or simply enforce the rules. Michigan, Florida, and HILLARY ALL knew and agreed to the rules.

SO - Does Hillary CARE about Florida and Michigan - Well, it turns out, only so far as they vote for her and it comes out her way.

I don't hear Obama demanding caucuses. He is letting the Florida and Michigan thing decide itself and I'm sure that if they decide to vote He will do fine
DEAR SUSAN
YOU CAN TELL YOU ARE FOR OBAMA...I AM FROM FLORIDA AND DID VOTE AS MANY MANY PEOPLE DID,CONSIDERING WE HAD TO VOTE ON A BILL THAT WOULD SAVE PEOPLE FROM LOSING THEIR HOMES!!!AND ONCE AGAIN I HEARD OBAMA ADS ON THE RADIO,SO FOLLOW THE RULES YOU SAY....
I SAY DRINK SOME MORE KOOLAID OBAMA ONLY MAKES SOME PEOPLE THINK HE FOLLOWS ANY RULE
SHARON,LARGO,FL (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 9:56 AM)

There was no campaigning to be done.  The candidates agreed not to enter the state to campaign publicly.  Didn't mention radio spots.  Get a clue!  I challenge you to please tell me how Hillary Clinton is experienced and a better candidate than Barack Obama.  Please give me reasons because all I see is a person who has gotten where they are not because of hard work, but by going along for the ride.  PLEASE I CHALLENGE YOU!  I will be waiting.
Wait a Minute - the way I see it, Obama is running against BOTH Clintons, the President of the United States and Sen. McCain AND he is winning!!!.  Moreover, he's running a tighter campaign; he's spending money wisely; he's not taking special interest money and he's raising money from a grass roots level.  Hillary has shown herself to be unwise with the most important event in her life - she's shortsighted (she believed that this would be ove r by Super Tuesday); she underestimated he adversary; and her judgment in the war is suspect - she just followed the political winds, rubber stampting what "W" wanted.  This type of "experience" is not what we need in the White House.  From this, we can deduce that she cannot be trusted to exercise good fiscal judgment on the economy and on foreign policy, period.  One last point:  When she tried to get health care passed in 93-94, her HUSBAND was the President of the UNited States AND the Congress was completely DEMOCRATIC!!!! And she still couldn't get health care passed!!! That PROVES how ineffective Hillary is to get things done; she cannot bring solutions.  Instead of fighting all the time, she should try to mend fences to being about the will of the American people - not her own.  
OUR "REPUBLICAN" GOV. AND LEGESLATOR, WILL NOT DISCOUNT MY VOTE. MY VOTE WILL BE COUNTED, AND MY DELEGATE WILL BE SEATED AT THE DNC CONVENTION. IF NOT THE REPUBLICANS WILL WIN THE NEXT ELECTION. AND THIS IS COMMING FROM A "LIFE LONG" DIE HARD DEMOCRAT IN FLORIDA. AND LET ME TELL YA',WE "ALL" FEEL THIS WAY IN FLORIDA.So a new election had better be planned,"real soon" .
Dear Sharon, Largo, FL

Do you not know that Hillary campaigned at the Lucky Strike Lanes in South Beach the Sunday prior to the primary?  She stood outside the bowling alley holding a homemade sign that read in part "We want a president that can keep a promise."

This was reported in the Sun-Sentinel

I too voted on Amendment 1.  I did not vote for a presidential candidate.  I am a Registered Independent, however I could have changed and voted but that would have been an exercise in futility.  To use the excuse that you were voting on Amendment 1 as the reason for voting for a candidate when you must have known it would not be counted does not cut it.

You did what you thought you should as I did what I thought I should.

So when you talk about others following the rules make sure your candidate did as well

A fact check on Clinton's foreign policy claims
From Brian Todd
CNN
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Sen. Hillary Clinton, fresh off crucial wins in Tuesday's primaries, has been playing the experience card heavily, particularly in regard to her role in foreign policy.
Clinton said it's her 35 years of experience that make her the best candidate to take on presumptive GOP presidential nominee John McCain in November.
After losing primaries in Ohio and Texas, Sen. Barack Obama argued the media has not held Clinton's feet to the fire on foreign policy.
"Was she negotiating treaties or agreements, or was she handling crises during this period of time? My sense is the answer is no," Obama said Wednesday.
So how do Clinton's claims stack up?
In some cases, CNN found a lack of clarity on her real involvement in foreign policy affairs. But in other cases, her claims do seem to check out fairly well.
Northern Ireland
"I helped to bring peace to Northern Ireland," Clinton said on CNN's American Morning on Wednesday.  Watch more of Clinton's comments on the race »
A Washington Post blogger accused Clinton in January of exaggerating her involvement in Northern Ireland.
But former Democratic Senate majority leader George Mitchell, who was a U.S. special envoy to Northern Ireland, told CNN that while Clinton was not directly involved in negotiations, she did play a helpful role in bringing in women's groups that made a difference.
Mitchell is a Democratic superdelegate and has not publicly endorsed Clinton or Obama.
Rep. Peter King, a Republican from New York, was also involved in the process. He recalls one late-night meeting with former President Bill Clinton, Sen. Clinton and Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams.
"There was a discussion of how the IRA would decommission its weapons. And I know that Sen. Clinton was part of that meeting," King said.
Kosovo
"I negotiated open borders to let fleeing refugees into safety from Kosovo," she said on CNN's American Morning.
In May of 1999, she was in Macedonia visiting refugee camps near the Kosovo border and meeting with Macedonia's president and prime minister.
Sources with knowledge of her visit say she discussed the refugees' plight with those leaders. It's not clear how much she helped since CNN reported at the time that Macedonia reopened its border to Kosovar refugees before Clinton's visit.
China
"I've been standing up against, you know, the Chinese government over women's rights and standing up for human rights in many different places," she said on CNN's American Morning.
During a 1995 visit to Beijing, at a time when her husband's administration was trying to press China on human rights, Sen. Clinton made a speech condemning abuses.
"No one should be forced to remain silent for fear of religious or political persecution, arrest, abuse or torture," she said.
But a former National Security Council official in the Clinton administration says Clinton didn't attend NSC meetings. So while her experience is extensive, she rarely carried an official portfolio.

A fact check on Clinton's foreign policy claims
From Brian Todd
CNN
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Sen. Hillary Clinton, fresh off crucial wins in Tuesday's primaries, has been playing the experience card heavily, particularly in regard to her role in foreign policy.
Clinton said it's her 35 years of experience that make her the best candidate to take on presumptive GOP presidential nominee John McCain in November.
After losing primaries in Ohio and Texas, Sen. Barack Obama argued the media has not held Clinton's feet to the fire on foreign policy.
"Was she negotiating treaties or agreements, or was she handling crises during this period of time? My sense is the answer is no," Obama said Wednesday.
So how do Clinton's claims stack up?
In some cases, CNN found a lack of clarity on her real involvement in foreign policy affairs. But in other cases, her claims do seem to check out fairly well.
Northern Ireland
"I helped to bring peace to Northern Ireland," Clinton said on CNN's American Morning on Wednesday.  Watch more of Clinton's comments on the race »
A Washington Post blogger accused Clinton in January of exaggerating her involvement in Northern Ireland.
But former Democratic Senate majority leader George Mitchell, who was a U.S. special envoy to Northern Ireland, told CNN that while Clinton was not directly involved in negotiations, she did play a helpful role in bringing in women's groups that made a difference.
Mitchell is a Democratic superdelegate and has not publicly endorsed Clinton or Obama.
Rep. Peter King, a Republican from New York, was also involved in the process. He recalls one late-night meeting with former President Bill Clinton, Sen. Clinton and Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams.
"There was a discussion of how the IRA would decommission its weapons. And I know that Sen. Clinton was part of that meeting," King said.
Kosovo
"I negotiated open borders to let fleeing refugees into safety from Kosovo," she said on CNN's American Morning.
In May of 1999, she was in Macedonia visiting refugee camps near the Kosovo border and meeting with Macedonia's president and prime minister.
Sources with knowledge of her visit say she discussed the refugees' plight with those leaders. It's not clear how much she helped since CNN reported at the time that Macedonia reopened its border to Kosovar refugees before Clinton's visit.
China
"I've been standing up against, you know, the Chinese government over women's rights and standing up for human rights in many different places," she said on CNN's American Morning.
During a 1995 visit to Beijing, at a time when her husband's administration was trying to press China on human rights, Sen. Clinton made a speech condemning abuses.
"No one should be forced to remain silent for fear of religious or political persecution, arrest, abuse or torture," she said.
But a former National Security Council official in the Clinton administration says Clinton didn't attend NSC meetings. So while her experience is extensive, she rarely carried an official portfolio.

Interesting that there was a record turn out in Florida...people came out and voted for one reason or another and the fact that they took time to do that regardless of what they knew...their vote should count.  As far as Michigan, Obama had the choice to leave his name on the ballot, he chose not to...Hillary choose to...just another decision that should have been thought out with the BIG picture in mind. Obama that is why experience does matter!
sharon, i am not from fl so i do not know if there where obama ads on the radion, but you should agree that there should be no new elections in Fl, or MI. The reason being is that the rules were broken, so if you have a problem with that you need to hold the correct people responsible at your next elections.  To protest the convention only shows how spoiled we as americans are, if we dont get are way even if our states didn't follow the rules all we have to do is protest and rules will be changed. what a way to teach our youth about following the law.  finally whats up with that kool-aid remark sounds kinda racist to me.
I'm starting to become really entrenched against any do-over. I saw the Florida governor on television last night. He "demands" to have Democratic delegates seated and if there has to be a do-over, he "demands" the taxpayers of Florida not pay for it.

Where's the responsibility? Who created this mess?

I'm just amazed at how these people hide behind their talking points and fail to present the character and integrity we'd all "demand" of a school PTA leader.
It is clear that the VOTERS WILL NOT DECIDE the nominee.  Niether candidated will be able to clinch with pledged delegates.  THIS IS A KNOWN FACT!!   The remaining primary contests will be exercises in futility.  The voters can't decide.  Do we really want the two campaigns to go negative for the remaining contests?  This could get really ugly.  THE VOTERS SIMPLY CANNOT DECIDE.

IT IS TIME FOR THE SUPERDELGATES TO WEIGH IN NOW!!!
Posted by Susan in Indiana: Oh by the way, even though Hillary agreed to not campaign in Florida, she still showed up and campaigned the NIGHT BEFORE THE ELECTION!  So your arguement does not hold water.
**************8
Might want to recheck your facts. She did not go to FL to election eve! That still doesn't negate the fact that Obama ran ads in FL that week.
Howard Dean should have lowered the goal to reach victory when he eliminated two delegate-rich states from the primary.  But it's too late for that now.  

Not having primaries in Michigan and Florida is irksome but fair.  Many people in my state are fully aware that the Michigan government was at fault by pushing it's primary too early in the year.  

But if new elections are held, the numbers will change significantly from the previous primary for many, many reasons.  Likewise, nobody will be happy with the results.  We can all expect a lot of complaining from everyone should these states vote again.
Sharon,

If you are going by experience, than McCain wins hands down.  But I do agree with you Hillary is not more experienced nor a better candidate than Obama.  In fact if you count actual years in elected office, than Obama has more experience.  Hillary may have more experience with scandals and corruption when she was the first lady, but that's about it.
It's nothing like kicking yourself in the behind.  Democrats get it together.  THIS is a major election for a Major needed change and now we have this non-sense.  Forget about it, more on and let's focus on taking the Presidency.  The Republican would like for the Democrats to bicker and waste money.  We have to get smarter than this, Is there a Republican spy in the Democrats party trying to create distribance?  I don't get it.  MOVE FORWARD NOW AND LET"S TAKE THIS THING
CA, nyc:

Your comments are Bull and you know it. Why would Obama place his name on the Michigan ballot and not campaign in Florida when the Dems all agreed in advance (including Hillary) that the primarys in Michigan and Florida would not count. You say because of a lack of experience. How about it was due to a desire and ability to follow the rules that everyone agreed too? Now that Hillary wants the votes counted (flip flopping on her original agreement) you say that Obama lacked the experience to do the same. The fact is what Obama lacks is not the ability to run a well-managed campaign, but the desire and willingess to get down to the same dirty level of politics as Hillary. If you want a person who wins the Presidency by way of flip-flops and dirty campaigning then so be it, vote for Hillary. But don't try and ridicule Obama for not participating in Michaign and Florida because he was following the rules and thought it was the right and moral thing to do. Don't forget, Edwards also followed the rules and did not participate in Michigan or Florida. He also holds the same moral values and fair game playing attitudes that Obama has, unlike those lack of values and dirty tricks of Hillary. Perhaps Edwards is not going to endorse either candidate but I can assure you, he is not going to endorse Hillary. His moral standards are too high to allow him to do that.    
I DID NOT SAY HILLARY DIDN'T CAMPAIGN IN FLORIDA..
I SAID OBAMA HAD ADS ON THE RADIO SO HE DID NOT FOLLOW THE RULES.....LIKE SUSAN HAD IMPLIED..KOOLAID
IS A REMARK ABOUT OBAMA FOLLOWERS BEING CULT LIKE
barack obama name was not on the ballet so how is this fare he folled the rule
Live Free or Die: You say it's time for superdelegates to weigh in now. Frankly, I find their participation at this point wrong. Their role begins at the convention. And, for states that haven't voted, who presumes the superdelegate knows who their citizens would have voted for? Of course, I find it odd that people gripe that superdelegates could change the popular vote at the convention but yet they're being courted now and some have gone against the will of the people in their state. The best example would be Massachusetts. Why are Kennedy, Kerry and Patrick pledging their vote to Obama when Clinton overwhlemingly won that state? It's all a crock. This election is out of control and a disgrace to Democracy
Hillary, by hook or by crook.
Win at all costs, even if it destroys the democratic party.  She's handing the presidency to John McCain and to put the republican opponent ahead of your democratic opponent?  It doesn't get more stupid than that!

Hillary did not win fair and square.  They both agreed to the rules and did not campaign.  For her to say too bad, they should count anyway is handing everything to McCain.

Hillary is the problem and she needs to get out now.
Figure out how many delegates each state has, then SPLIT THEM IN HALF and award half to each.  NO RE-VOTE.  It is NOT FAIR.  And of course the governor of Michigan wants her delegates seated--she is an ardent and open Clinton supporter!  I saw her advocating for her weeks ago on Meet the Press!  THOSE DELEGATES CANNOT BE SEATED AS-IS--HIS NAME WAS NOT ON THE BALLOT!  WINNING BY DEFAULT IS NOT WINNING!  
Ok, understand this.  If Hillary gets the nomination through the trickery of allowing Florida and Michigan to award delegates to Her--with a re-do.  And Barrack loses because of this? or if Hillary wins because of covert, barnyard, Super-delegate deals, when he has won the vote and the pledged delegates?  What will happen America. Don't you think that better than half of the democratic americans will go to the street! There are far more reaching consequence to this than people can fathom.  Wake UP!  America!
Posted by Sharon:

I challenge you to please tell me how Hillary Clinton is experienced and a better candidate than Barack Obama.  Please give me reasons because all I see is a person who has gotten where they are not because of hard work, but by going along for the ride.  PLEASE I CHALLENGE YOU!  I will be waiting.

Like I said I agree!  Hillary is not more experienced nor the better candidate.

And Get it Right

Maybe you should check your facts.  It was a story in one of the local papers in Florida that Hillary showed up the night before the election.  I read it myself shortly after the primary there.  Anybody remember the article?
Okay, rules are rules. Then, when and what penalty is the DNC going to impose on Obama for advertising in Florida during the week before the election?  How about whatever delegates he would have won out of FL be given to Clinton?  The DNC has said there had to be a penalty to FL and MI for breaking the rules so there must be one against Obama, too.
To Sharon in Largo, FL:  THE POINT IS THAT CLINTON DID NOT PLAY BY THE RULES.  SHE DID APPEAR IN FLORIDA IN PERSON.  THOSE WHO LIVE IN GLASS HOUSES SHOULD NOT THROW STONES.  
get it right - I saw that victory celebration. Sure seemed to be a lot of campaign materials there. Seems like maybe a little coordination went into that.

Plus we all saw the campaign organization at work for her in Florida. Sure the brochures and signs added the words in small print at the bottom "not affiliated with the Clinton for President campaign," but they looked amazingly like the brochures and signs being used in other states.
WAY TO GO FLORIDIANS,  YOUR VOTES HAVE BEEN DISCOUNTED IN MANY WAYS BEFORE.  I HOPE YOU ALL STAND AND FIGHT FOR THE VOTES THAT YOU HAVE ALREADY CAST. THERE HAS NOT BEEN ANY THING FAIR ABOUT THIS ELECTION  I HOPE IT DON'T JUST KEEP GETTING WORSE,


GIVE HILLARY HER FAIR SHARE.  OBAMA IS THE ONLY ONE WHO RAN ADS IN FLORIDA.  ANY VOTES HE GOT SHOULDN'T COUNT.
"What I want to do is help all those Americans who work hard and play by the rules."  William Jefferson Clinton, 1992.  "Unless you're running against me in Florida."  Hillary Rodham Clinton, 2008.


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