Those FL and MI superdelegates

Posted: Friday, March 07, 2008 12:38 PM by Mark Murray
Filed Under: States, Democrats

From NBC's Mark Murray and Domenico Montanaro
One of the biggest signs of Obama's momentum since February 5 has been all the superdelegates he's picked since then. According to our count, Obama has added 43 to his superdelegate total after Super Tuesday, while Clinton has lost six. In fact, even after Clinton's wins in Ohio and Texas, it's worth noting that the Clinton campaign hasn't publicly announced a new superdelegate since February 7 (that person was Sen. Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas).

Overall, per NBC's count, Clinton has a 254-215 superdelegate lead over Obama.

Yet in the discussion about holding do-overs in Florida and Michigan, this fact has largely been ignored: If those states' delegations are in play, Clinton will be able to add to her superdelegate lead. According to our list, Clinton has the support of 13 superdelegates from Florida and Michigan (including Florida Sen. Bill Nelson and Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm), while Obama has the support of six from those two states.

If they get seated, Florida and Michigan have 25 and 29 superdelegates, respectively.

Of course, when talking about superdelegates, it's important to keep this in mind: A superdelegate's support isn't set in stone; it can change anytime between now and the convention.

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Comments

Hillary will take Michigan and Florida.It is not Clinton's faul that Obama took his name of the ballot in Michigan.Yet another rookie mistake.

The Clinton machine is going full speed now. woooo hoooo!!!!!!

Move over Obama. The Clinton machine is going to run you over on their way to the white house

patty,sd,ca (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 12:46 PM)

The spectacle of watching Gov. Crist following around McCain like a puppy while trying to foist the cost of a new primary onto the DNC (which wouldn't be necessary if he'd simply followed the rules)all the while barking sanctimoniously about the "florida voters" being robbed would be funny if it weren't so transparently cynical.

Gary, Toronto, Ontario (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 12:48 PM)

NO do overs. Count the votes the way they are. People got out and voted..count em. Can anyone else jump in to try and give the nominee to him? Hillary will be president.

No do do's (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 12:49 PM)

Thanks for linking Clinton the the machine Patty, that's helpful in drawing distinction.

As for the Mich. and FL superdelegates...I reinterate MY consistent point. Anyone advocating for a rules change at this point, has a bias.

Are Nelson and Granholm going to recluse themselves as superdelegates? Of course Crist doesn't have to...he's a REPUBLICAN. No bias there, of course.

Lisa from New Britain, CT (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 12:50 PM)

Clinton agreed to the rules about Florida and Michigan. Obama wasn't even on the ballot, whereas Clinton reversed and refused to remove her name.
Obama would have a good chance of winning Michigan and would definitely have a good fight of it in FL.
I would have voted for Obama in the primary, but didnt go out because we were told it wouldn't count.
I know there are many others who did the same.

M, Florida (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 12:52 PM)

Billary camp is based on IFs, if we jab and destroy Obama's everything, if we cheat the people in each state, if we put pressure on media, if we persuade by any means the superdelegates, if we put so many propaganda on any issue, WE WILL WIN.

I HOPE NOT SO.

Moodi (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 12:52 PM)

Say No to Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton !!!

USA is not a monarchy.

Go Obama '08.

New Wave (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 12:53 PM)

When will Clinton return $170,000 contribution to the company that sexually harassed women. So much for standing for women.

Why the MSM not reporting the news that it was Clinton's campaign that really had the NAFTA-gate issue ater all they reported against Obama on that.

New Wave (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 12:53 PM)

Is there a more treacherous and gutless hack than Hillary Clinton? Possibly Joe Lieberman(pronounced lye berman) at least he had the good sense to run as an independant.

Bill Rochester NY (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 12:53 PM)

Yea nd shes still ahead and after Penn and Fla she will gain them and more back. Sorry boys.

j fl (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 12:54 PM)

I think every democrat and the people at First Read and all of MSNBC needs to read this by Andrew Sullivan and think of what Allowing clinton to have her way would really mean
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/03/the-clinton-rul.html

diane (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 12:54 PM)

Clinton camp backpedals from Ken Starr-Obama tie
by Rick Pearson

HATTIESBURG, Miss. — In the aftermath of the resignation of Samantha Powers, a top foreign affairs advisor to Sen. Barack Obama, for calling Sen. Hillary Clinton a “monster,” the Clinton team may also have tripped themselves up.

During a conference call with reporters, Clinton spokesman Howard Wolfson tried to explain his Thursday accusation that Obama’s campaign was using Ken Starr-like tactics against the New York senator was not comparable to Powers’ comments.

“Ours was a reaction to the Obama campaign’s attacks on Sen. Clinton post their losses in Ohio and Texas,” Wolfson said. “I did not refer, I did not say, that Sen. Obama was like Ken Starr and I think there is a difference between engaging in the kind of ad hominem personal attack on someone’s character that Samantha Power did and talking about the kind of campaign that Team Obama has been running since Ohio and Texas.”

But here is what Wolfson told reporters on the conference call yesterday:

"I for one do not believe that imitating Ken Starr is the way to win a Democratic primary election for president," Wolfson said

Wolfson’s comments have revealed an interesting strategy by the Clinton campaign to try to use him to criticize Obama without the candidate having to accept any responsibility for his words. For example, when Clinton was asked yesterday about Wolfson’s use of Starr to characterize her rival’s campaign, she succinctly said: “I’m not going to respond to that.”

christian (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 12:54 PM)

This First Read post isn't clear. Are the supers only relevant if the FL/MI elected delegates are seated? Are you operating on the assumption that a do over would have some affect on these supers support?

Clarify, please!

Carly "Hussein," Iowa (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 12:55 PM)

Boy is Larry David hitting the right note or what? I have received his comments from 7 or 8 people just this morning....and only one of them even knows that I would sympathize with them. Sometimes someone just gets it!

Gary - Pittsburgh (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 12:55 PM)

Florida and Michigan Democrats should have followed the rules. But, given the important of these big states in the genral election. There should be a do-over paid for by the people who caused the problem in the first place - the state parties.

Colleen, NY (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 12:56 PM)

And Edwards is a rookie? And Biden and Dodd too? Because they too filed to have their names removed from Michigan's ballots. Oh wow! We need to have a rookie democratic party! Yeah, I'll be there!

Patty,sd,ca get a life! Did you not do a research paper in your senior year of high school? You know, the kind where you need to look up information?

susan f (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 12:56 PM)

Patrick, Detroit, MI (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 12:56 PM)

Boy, this Patty, SD, CA, person is a real fan, huh?

Doles, Miami, FL (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 12:58 PM)

Personally I think that Michigan and Florida should re-do their primaries. They broke the rules and should have to pay for the consequenses. If the people of Michigan and Florida are upset with this then maybe they should vote their officials out of office. Remember how we all had to pay for the Republicans to impeach Clinton?

patty, come up with something new and thought provoking or just shut up please. I've gotten tired of seeing the same thing out of you every single time

Tim, Reading, Pa (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 12:58 PM)

I'm fascinated by how journalists are no longer even pretending to be impartial. The Bob Johnson comments had nothing to do with Hillary's campaign, and yet they were brought up by a journalist and presented almost as if they were ethically equivalent to the comments of an Obama advisor. Was the journalist who brought up Bob Johnson's comments in the context of the Samantha Power story even reprimanded by their editor or publisher?

L. Miller (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 12:59 PM)

Hey, bam bamers, barry needs to grow up if ya'll think she's tough wait till the reps get a hold of him. He doesn't have enough back bone so go with her so we will win the white house.

Barry , Naples (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 1:00 PM)

Boo Hoo M in Florida. A huge amount of folks did vote on primary day and if you missed it, tough! We all also voted on Amendment one, which was critical for us and our state. Where were you?

j fl (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 1:00 PM)

Everyone has a bias. I call on Nelson and Granholm to recuse themselves if they want to call for a rules change in the middle of the game.

Of course its even more clear that Crist is a partisan, being a Republican.

anti-Clinton MACHINE, Obama 08

Lisa from New Britain, CT (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 1:00 PM)

Patty, sd, ca: You have referred to the "Clinton Machine" in nearly every post you've made today. Do you actually think that is a positive portrayal of the Terminator-like nature of your candidate? She IS a machine--a heartless, souless, MONSTER of a machine. Then again, maybe you are a machine yourself, as you robotically post the same thing over and over. And they call us Obamaniacs cultish...give me a break.

LJ (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 1:01 PM)

It's rather silly to say Obama is naive to remove his name from the Michigan ballot while Clinton fights for her hollow victory delegates. Obama, Edwards and other candidates shown their integrity by going that extra step by removing their names.

Hillary refused so she may exploit any loophole.

And think about it. Hillary signed an agreement that Michigan (and Florida) delegates do not count. It's rather disigenuous for her to fight to keep them after the fact.

If you want a fair count of delegates from either state, you'll have to start a new primary in each. But be warned, you'll also open up a can of worms over petty political details.

sg, michigan (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 1:03 PM)

The rules are no delegates from those states are seated.
That includes super - its all or nothing.

Is Granholm and Crist on Hillary's short list. They sure act like it.

OBwan, IN (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 1:03 PM)

Are you serious?????? Obama's name wasn't even on the ballot. Even Patty has to agree that simply isn't fair. I live in Detroit and I KNOW Obama would win, Detoit, Plymouth, Flint Southfield, and Pontiac. NO DOUBT! So you mean to tell me that negating these cities vote is democracy in action?
Patrick, Detroit, MI (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 12:56 PM)

*************************************

you had a primary already.If people didn't put their name on the ballot it is not Clinton's fault.Like Howard dean said follow the rules.The rules are

State can send proposal for a different election or appeal to the board at the convention.The board is packed with Clinton supporter.

See where this is going?

Clinton 08

patty,sd,ca (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 1:05 PM)

Hillary refused so she may exploit any loophole.

michigan (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 1:03 PM)

well duh!!

it all a game.

CHECKMATE

patty,sd,ca (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 1:09 PM)

Paty,sd, ca:

Another example of the "uneducated" demographic Clinton's campaign relies on...

News Flash!

MI and FLA broke the rules, they should suffer the consequences. If you have a problem with this convince those Hillary supporters to put down the kool-aid and write their legislature and ask why they decided to move up their primaries and risk losing their delegates.

I for one, would not pay any tax dollars to continue this circus...

Chris (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 1:10 PM)

I'm amazed the media hasn't gone after Governor Crist. Crist was seen on nearly every major news outlet saying he wanted a revote and that it's not fair to not seat the Florida delegates. He used the "I'm in charge of what's best for the voters."

Someone please call him out on how rediculous this argument is...if he cared at all about the voters he would have heeded the warnings from both parties and not tried to change the rules in the first place. He screwed up and, in typical political fashion, is trying to put the blame somewhere else.

The voters in Florida and Michigan should be going after their own elected officials, not the national parties. Had the states actually kept their primary dates we would be talking about how important they are with Pennsylvania.

Gotta love politics.

Dan, Burlington, VT (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 1:10 PM)

paty,sd,ca:

Please be more informed before you make such a statement.

Each candidate SIGNED a pledge not to campaign in Florida, each candidate SIGNED a pledge not to pull their names from the ballot in Michigan. Last time I checked, a pledge was a PROMISE. So it IS HILLARYS FAULT that she did not remove her name from the ballot.

Chris (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 1:12 PM)

Largely missed in this week's craziness: Obama picked up 8 delegates after the california certification came through.

Roger Barton (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 1:12 PM)

Michigan and Florida didn't play by the rules. This is the direct fault of their state parties.

Sen. Nelson from Florida is all too quick to point the finger at Dean and demand the DNC pay for it, I say, those at fault pay for it! The Florida Democratic Party should pay for it. Maybe all the Democrats in Florida should surrender their pay for a year, since they screwed it up for their constituents.

But on this story, Mark Murray, I think it's gone unnoticed because that's a pretty insignificant point. Basically, it means over the past month, Clinton had a net gain of 7 delegates to Obama's 49 delegates. And any time Obama beats Clinton, well, that doesn't really count. Wyoming and Mississippi... those aren't REAL states! Same with these superdelegates.

Ron, TX (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 1:12 PM)

Patty, you're right, "you had a primary already.If people didn't put their name on the ballot it is not Clinton's fault.Like Howard dean said follow the rules."

Clinton needs to play by the rules, the rules stated the delegates wouldn't count. She agreed to these rules. Plain and simple...

How's that for a game...

Check.....

(there is no checkmate until a candidate wins you fool)

Obama '08

Dan, Burlington, VT (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 1:13 PM)

I like charlie crist and his 'concern' for the citizens of Florida...how could the voters there have elected such an obvious blown dried fraud as their governor? Maybe we shouldn't let them vote in November for being so gullible as to believe the rest of us are going to give them a taxpayer bailout for their insurance needs

Rick, NC (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 1:14 PM)

For all of the Hillary supporters that say "you think she's negative, wait until the Republican's get a hold of him", I say HILLARY IS A REPUBLICAN!! She has been praising McCain left and right the past couple of days.

Hillary = worst Democrat ever!

Jesse, Burnsville, MN (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 1:14 PM)

I guess Clinton will be beside herself when she doesn't win the Dem nomination nor the presidency.

vs,ny,ny (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 1:14 PM)

What about NAFTAgate?

Did Clinton not Obama make the contact?

Did it really cost votes last Tuesday?

How did this story break so upside down?

Why is this reversal not nearly as much news as it was when it broke incorrectly?

Hello... anybody out there... is this thing on?

Ted, Grand Rapids, Michigan (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 1:15 PM)

Hillary refused so she may exploit any loophole.

michigan (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 1:03 PM)

well duh!!

it all a game.

CHECKMATE

patty,sd,ca (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 1:09 PM)

That is funny, since even WITH Florida and Michigan, Clinton would still be losing. She would be losing in delegates, she would be losing in popular vote, and she would be losing in number of states won.

Checkmate? Indeed.

CitizenJ (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 1:15 PM)

Clinton needs to play by the rules, the rules stated the delegates wouldn't count. She agreed to these rules. Plain and simple...

*******************************

Rules are made to be broken. Every rule has been broken at some point or another and this rule won't be an exception.

patty,sd,ca (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 1:17 PM)

Well, since Michigan is planning a caucus...Obama will win, and the supers will shift to him. Don't count your chickens Hillary supporters. Florida will not have a do over unless it is a caucus because they will not foot the bill for a primary and neither will the DNC.. So much for that..

Lo in OR (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 1:17 PM)

I feel sorry for you people monitoring this site since you don't even feel secure enough to post a message that supports someone you don't support. Let me guess, you'll post this message.

vs,ny,ny (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 1:17 PM)

OMG!

Thank you!!

There are so many here that need to understand that, about the role of super delegates.

They are independent voters, that is unless they are like "John Lewis" who is now, at present... up for re-election and his district is mostly black and he has been told that if he don't vote the same as (9 out of 10) blacks vote. They will throw the bum out....

I guess he believes them, and decided to suck it up and keep his job. Understandable, he is a politician, spineless, not much back bone. But hey, a man's got to do what a man's got to do.

Why do they always have to lie, his story about what a difficult decision it was for him to decide to "get over" to the Obama side. He caved to pressure, and the $$$$$, figure donation from the Obama campaign, to help him with his re-election bid, didn't hurt a bit, either.

The Truth Hurts?Maybe, Columbus Georgia. (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 1:18 PM)

Correction on my post:

Each candidate SIGNED a pledge not to campaign in Florida, each candidate SIGNED a pledge TO PULL their names from the ballot in Michigan. Last time I checked, a pledge was a PROMISE. So it IS HILLARYS FAULT that she did not remove her name from the ballot.

Chris (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 1:18 PM)

The Truth Hurts?Maybe, Columbus Georgia. (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 1:18 PM)

Christian,
Excellent post. Everyone should read it. It's of course how that campaign operates--lurking around the edges. No Wolfson didn't say "Obama IS Ken Starr," he said "imitates Ken Starr" so that the next day he could come out and say "what's the big fuss about, I didn't say Obama is Ken Starr." He's a snake. Anyone with a brain can see it. And of course Hillary won't respond to it. Because she was in the morning meeting in which they decided to bring up Ken Starr.

Scott (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 1:19 PM)

People, the Clintons are royalty, don't you know. They are better than us average peasants. It is Hillary's god given right to be President. So to hell with who has won the most states, who has the delegate lead, and who is leading in the popular vote.

Just give her the damn Presidency you minions.

Jesse "Hussein" T, Burnsville, MN (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 1:19 PM)

What I find amazing about Florida and Michigan is that Clinton had been campaigning there for years before this election allowing the Clinton name to be a household name. Before either state could get to know Obama, the said OK, no campaigning in those states.

What a surprise that she won! What's even more amazing is that is her idea of a fair election.

What a joke!

Dan, Iowa (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 1:20 PM)

only people who thinks not following the rules is the way politics should be done. these statements are stupid. Even with a redo and sen.clinton wins each state 55 to 40 she will only gain around 21 delicates and still after losing wyoming and mississippi she might have a net of 10 and will still be 150 behind.

mss (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 1:21 PM)

Please Hillary don't put him on your ticket. He will hurt you...he doesn't have enough experience to be vp. Give the voters time you will come out with the nominee and pick someone that will help our country not hurt us. He wouldn't stand up for women's rights when he had the chance.

Betty from AL (Sent Friday, March 07, 2008 1:21 PM)

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