ABOUT FIRST READ

First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



New Clinton spin on caucus delegates

Posted: Monday, March 10, 2008 10:59 AM by Chuck Todd

From NBC's Chuck Todd
A few weeks ago on one of those "set the tone for the media" conference calls by the Clinton campaign, Harold Ickes took pains to try and blur the distinction between pledged delegates (those earned in the primary/caucus process) and Superdelegates (Ickes' preferred term is "automatic delegates" though even slips and calls them "Supers"). They wanted delegates to be counted without prejudice as to how they were earned.

Well, that was the pre-March 4 Clinton spin. The new Clinton spin? Create THREE categories of delegates: pledged, caucus and supers.

Here's Hillary Clinton in an interview with Newsweek.

Asked how she can win the nomination despite the math, Clinton: "It doesn't look bleak at all. I have a very close race with Senator Obama. There are elected delegates, caucus delegates and superdelegates, all for different reasons, and they're all equal in their ability to cast their vote for whomever they choose. Even elected and caucus delegates are not required to stay with whomever they are pledged to. This is a very carefully constructed process that goes back years, and we're going to follow the process."

And here's Pa. Gov. Ed Rendell, serving as a Clinton surrogate, on "Meet the Press" Sunday, when asked about a revote in Florida and Michigan: "Caucuses are undemocratic.  That's another thing.  We talk about the superdelegates being undemocratic.  If you're a caucus, older people can't vote, older people who vote by absentee ballot.  There's no absentee ballots in a caucus.  Tim, if you're a shift worker and a lot of our workers, because they're low-income workers, are shift workers, you can't vote in a caucus.  So we want primaries.  That's the way we elect presidents.  We don't have caucuses to elect presidents in the fall.  Let's have a primary. Let's decide this.  Let's hear from the Obama campaign about a revote in Florida and Michigan."

So clearly there's a new push to somehow distinguish between delegates earned in caucuses and delegates earned in primaries. Why do I smell a new chart being developed in the Clinton delegate war room if it shows Clinton ahead somehow if just primary pledged delegates counted.

*** UPDATE *** I did the quick math, Obama's gotten more delegates via primaries than Clinton (1086 or 1088 depending on the certified California results) to Clinton's (1074 or 1076). So clearly, the caucuses are what's helped put Obama's delegate lead nearly out of reach  but even when just measuring primaries, Obama's ahead.

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primaries are just a popularity contest when it comes to nominating a party leader.  It favores the popular candidate and eliminate those with less name recognition all the time.
I think this is why Obama's camp remains silent mostly. As time elapses Hillary's camp gets increasingly desperate. As it stands now there's no legitimate way for her to win. By the Clinton camp suggesting enough dastardly tactics to earn a spot on Laff Olympics (how old am I?)

Even the average American voter that frankly has better things to do than reading or researching, can see shadiness in the works. She'll screw her own chances up for him.
I am have officially converted to the Obama camp! It is unbelievable how the Clinton's are trying to steal the election! I am absolutely disgusted by what they have done. I really believed in her until all this ridiculous spin! Let us think about the long term future of the party. I am disgusted by the Clintons! I hope all the voters finally decide to rally behind a candidate that has been relatively genuine throughout.
The Clintons have once again stepped over the line and only lookout for themselves.  It is disgusting that they would say John McCain is ready to be president, Hillary is and Obama is not.  Why doesn't Hillary just join the Republican party.  The only way they ever win is to destroy everyone around them until they are the last ones standing.  I will not vote for her if she gets the nomination and I have voted democratic all my life.  Obama could never be on a ticket with her as she is everything he is trying to change.
The media allows them to keep moving the goal posts because it is great for ratings for this thing to continue.  They would love a brokered convention, they live for that type of coverage and will do what ever they can to keep the race going.  Even if it means feeding Clinton's delusions.
On Meet the Press yesterday, Ed Rendell indicated that there is no such thing as an absentee ballot in a caucus.  Well...I live in Maine.  We had caucuses and we accepted absentee ballots.  Who's right?  Does it differ state to state?  Also, it is offensive to me to suggest that caucuses are undemocratic.  I feel more a part of the democratic process than I have since high school.
The Clinton's SPIN is absolutely ludicrous and laughable!!! They are desparate and pathetic. Breaking down the Pledged delegates into "Elected" and "Caucus" delegates suggests that Caucus states are irrelevant and not important. The assumption that only "Hillary States" are important doesn't guarantee that all those states will be in the Democratic column. The Obama campaign played by the rules set forth by the State/National Democratic Parties. Their strategy is consistent with the "50 State" strategy as envisioned by chairman Dean.

Do we really want 4 years of spin, secrecy, no accountability with HRC? Haven't we had enough of that in the last 7 years???

I am have officially converted to the Obama camp! It is unbelievable how the Clinton's are trying to steal the election! I am absolutely disgusted by what they have done. I really believed in her until all this ridiculous spin! Let us think about the long term future of the party. I am disgusted by the Clintons! I hope all the voters finally decide to rally behind a candidate that has been relatively genuine throughout.
Given the prohibitive costs of any redo of primaries and the inevitable complaints of voiding the original votes, why not employ the "Texas Two Step" approach to the Florida & Michigan problem?  The DNC could count 1/2 to 2/3 of the original votes cast and then decide the rest of the delegates via caucuses.
Shame on you all Clinton haters! Say what you may, America will NEVER elect a black president, period. Keep on believing that the so-called cross-over repubiCONs (ObamaCONS) will vote for hin in November. If you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn so sell to you. General election is won based on electoral college. If Obama is the candidate, count New York, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Florida, California (with the hispanic votes)among others in McCains column and that means game over for the Democrats. We may hope (and yes we can) all we want as Democrats, the facts remains that there is no way in hell Obama will become the next president, except by wishing and hoping for it but in reality never!
Concerned Black Democrat

P.S. What if white Democrats vote for Clinton 80% of the time as black voters do, will we be screaming racism? Just a food for thought.    
I have a much easier way to manipulate the system Hillary. Just let me choose. It's never been that way before and it's completely undemocratic (but would likely produce a more intelligent decision). You don't have a problem with that do you? Unless, of course, you're not my choice.
Hint - you're not.
Hey guys, can you figure the math when it comes to the popular vote in caucus states versus the popular vote in primary states? Wouldn't we have to adjust the relative weight of a voter in a caucus state to give a fair comparison? The raw numbers aren't an accurate record of popularity. Will you articulate this idea for me/us? Thanks!
Maybe the Clinton spin machine is actually a big stir pot. Pour in enough alphabet soup so that on any given day you can float the rationale de jour. AUTOMATIC DELEGATES... CO PRESIDENTS... REDO... DREAM TICKET... 3 AM... MORALE VICTORY... WE LOST

Chuck Todd - Please keep up your intelligent, unbiased analysis.

Bruce wrote:  OMG - How many times can the Clinton camp move the goal posts?

As pointed out earlier, the goal posts are ALWAYS at the END of the field.  Think about it.
Being too lazy to do the math myself.  What I'd like to know is if the Democrats had been using the same winner take all approach as the Republicans, where would Obama and Clinton be now in the delegate count.
Would Hillary's winning the big states though fewer states put her in a commanding lead?
Barack Obama is INEVITABLE

Batack Obama has won the MOST DELEGATES

Hillary Clinton CAN'T CATCH UP

The Super Delegates WILL NOT OVERTURN the WILL OF THE VOTERS

Barack Obama is INEVITABLE

Barack Obama will be your next President

And Hillary WILL NOT be on the Ticket !!
Hillary has the lead in the % votes in all primaries (e.g., please look at the real politics). Indeed, if we count Florida and Michigan, her % popular vote exceeds that of Mr. Obama.

I have a problem with caucaus system, as it is not logical. If you look at Texas, for instance, over 2 million people votes, and 4% votes (51-47% with 100% votes calling) and over 100,001 more people votes for Hillary. However, in the same state, the caucus with a few % of participation, gives 12% for Obama.  It shows that caucauses DO NOT REPRESENT THE PEOPLE's VOICE!

I think that both candidates have their strengths and weakness, but Hillary is right on this matter.

I urge anyone remotely repulsed by the constant barage of Clinton dirty politics to write Chairman Dean of the Democratic National Committee using this link: http://www.democrats.org/page/petition/chairman

It is time to let Democratic leadership know that the dirty politics that Hillary Clinton has introduced in our nomination process needs to come to an end - and fast. Not only will this kind of Rovian politics hurt our eventual nominee, but it effectively gives Republicans permission to use these same tactics in November against our party's nominee. We are supposed to be the party that wants an end to swift-boating, but how can we ask that of Republicans if we allow Hillary Clinton to shift-boat a fellow Democrat?  
Hillary has the lead in the % votes in all primaries (e.g., please look at the real politics). Indeed, if we count Florida and Michigan, her % popular vote exceeds that of Mr. Obama.

I have a problem with caucaus system, as it is not logical. If you look at Texas, for instance, over 2 million people votes, and 4% votes (51-47% with 100% votes calling) and over 100,001 more people votes for Hillary. However, in the same state, the caucus with a few % of participation, gives 12% for Obama.  It shows that caucauses DO NOT REPRESENT THE PEOPLE's VOICE!

I think that both candidates have their strengths and weakness, but Hillary is right on this matter.

To answer your question, Charlie:  If Democrats had the same winner-take-all delegate system as Republicans, HILLARY would already have enough delegates to have won the nomination, PLUS 200 extra!  Well, well...isn't Sen. Obama the luck one.  The will of the people is evident.  Hillary '08'

I always find it interesting (but disgusting) how Obama fans can't seem to name even ONE legislative thing Obama has done since becoming a politician.  Hillary supporters do NOT have that problem, as she has a long history of accomplishments in politics.  Once again, I encourage research and homework over hysterics.
Would you guys stop pushing this notion that Obama is deserving of the nomination because he presently leads in delegates? Both Obama and Clinton can not win without the Super-delegates. You talk about Clinton trying to change the rules but in actuality it is the media who is trying to change the rules...and at the same time confuse the public. The process is what it is and Super-delegates are part of that process. There is NOTHING in the rules that states that the Super-delegates MUST follow a certain set of criteria laid out by the media. Both Obama and Clinton will have to make their cases and the Super-delegates will have to vote their conscience. But they certainly should not be pressured by the media elite to follow some out of thin air set of criteria. Let the remaining states vote and Michigan and Florida work out their respective problems...in the end it will be what it is...a very close contest and the Super-delegates will have to decide who will be the strongest candidate against John McCain.  

Now we have Hillary the political philosopher: Democracy isn't democracy, unless I say so. Let’s see: Plato, Aristotle, Locke, Hobbes, Rousseau, Jefferson, John Stuart Mill, John Rawls, Hillary Clinton. Which one doesn’t fit?

Caucuses are closer to direct democracy than primaries are. In direct democracy, not everyone always--or needs to--show up to make it legitimate.

Rendell says older people can't participate in caucuses. What law is that Ed? Police checking ID's at the door?

I favor primaries in some ways for the reasons given by the Clinton camp--though hardly original thinking on their part.

But once again here's Hillary wanting to change the rules.


"Given the prohibitive costs of any redo of primaries and the inevitable complaints of voiding the original votes, why not employ the "Texas Two Step" approach to the Florida & Michigan problem?  The DNC could count 1/2 to 2/3 of the original votes cast and then decide the rest of the delegates via caucuses. "

Dr John Cavanaugh, people have talked about what's fair.  I have yet to understand how the TX two-step is fair in allowing two people to vote.  Why do you need a caucus after people have voted?  Besides, as has been pointed out many times, caucuses disenfranchise those who cannot be present at the small window of time allowed for a caucus. If there's any re-vote, EVERYBODY needs to be able to vote and it should be CLOSED, no independents and no Republicans.  Had the Republicans not been allowed to participate and vote to mess with the Democratic election this process might have been done.
Caucuses should be outlawed.

The ONLY reason for a caucus over a primary is to exaggerate the vote of the local party activists making each of their votes worth thousands.

Basically it is a "time tax" to replace the now illegal poll tax.

Having to devote 3+ hours STARTING AT ONE AND ONLY ONE TIME ON THE CLOCK successfully eliminates people that actually work hard for a living, parents with children to take care of, the elderly to which it would be overy tiring...at least at a primary you can schedule the 30 minutes to vote around your job vor when your children could be cared for by aother.

Caucuses are totally un-American and contrary to the "one person one vote" concept on which our system of government is supposedly based on.

The only reason caucuses are still a part of the elections is the the caucus goers are the same people that would vote on whether to continue having caucuses or not.
Is this serious ? Why not just count all the delegates that are pledged to Clinton. Delegates who are pledged to other candidates will not be valid.

That way the Clinton campaign will get their 'fair' and 'democratic' results. The Black man gets in the back of the bus.

It's funny how Billary wants to change all the rules AFTER losing all those contests. Truth is that she did not prepare in the states after Super Tuesday because she thought she was the defacto nominee anyway. If I remember right, when she won the Nevada causus, she did not mention this to be 'not democratic' did she ? No, it was a 'significant victory' then ....

I hope the media puts this farce on the table and won't let go. Our democracy is being sold out and we need some brave journalists to defend our values!!!!
mel - It doesn't matter if Hillary has the lead in all primaries, the rules have been set in place for years to both primaries and caucaus' in various states.  Why are you focusing on what if?  We are in the here and now, and the rules say that those states that have primaries and those states that have caucaus' both count!
Mel -

You forget that Obama was not on the Ballot in Michigan.  So if you include a Soviet style election where Clinton was the only name on the ticket and didn't count then she is in the lead. So if in a redo Obama get 0% of the vote then Hillary would barely be in the lead.  This of course won't happen if there is a redo, so he'll probably come out on top. If you add in Florida, she's still getting smoked.  At least be factual if you can't be impartial.    
This is 2004 all over again - but worse.  I thought our country was built upon the principles of the Constitution?  We are a democracy and our government are  public servants that serve the people.  In addition, we influence other Nations to be democratic and to have elections.  Yet, there is an attempt to change (kinder word than corrupt) the rules of the political process that has been around since the birth of our Nation.  Why is it that small states don't count?  Why is it that the caucus system is all of a sudden undemocratic?  Why is it that FL/MI seats are trying to be seated "as-is" when in FL the candidates did not campaign (and its proven that campaigns do have an impact - MN and NH) and MI had only one nominee on the ballot?  Why is it that the Democratic Party is once again showing disorganization and chaos by not stepping up to the plate and making this election everything but democratic -- Why is it that I am now leaning toward McCain?  
The Clintons seem to be masterful at the carrying out a smoke and mirror strategy. As long as the attention is focused on foolery no one has time to ask real questions --like why won't you disclose your financial records or who did you say contributed to Bill's library??




You people crack me up! Hillary throws a couple of softballs and you start crying like a bunch of babies. Running for the highest office in the land is hardball and if Obama does not have the stomach for it, what kind of president will he make?  If you think this is bad wait until you see what the Republicans have in store.  Hillary or Barack will make an awsome president. So relax, let the rest of the states vote and may the best man or woman win.  If neither can get to the magic number of delegates then the Super delegates get to decide.  Don't blame Hillary for the screwed up system she is just trying to work it to her advantage and Barack should be doing the same.  In the future we really need to do away with cacuses and super delegates.
In our precinct in TX, 450 people voted in our caucus. Last election with John Kerry 3 showed up.  It was mayhem and many people left without voting in the caucus because of the disorganized caucus team. Everyone at the caucus voted in the primary.  In TX, you cannot caucus unless you voted in the primary. 18 of our 20 delegates went to Obama.  I am not sure how you can say caucus votes under represent the population in TX.  Every candidates supporters have the opportunity to caucus as long as they vote in the primary.  If the Clinton supporters chose not to caucus, too bad.  I would be very upset if the delegates our caucus chose changed their vote along the way.  The majority of our caucus was for Obama.  I am an alternate delegate to the county caucus.  

I prefer the caucus to a primary if they are done well.  It gives a Clinton or Obama supporter the opportunity to educate the opponents followers about their candidates policies and major ideas.  The caucus system gives people the opportunity to see a side of the candidate they might not have seen otherwise. There is less effect on caucus by pre-election poll results.

The primary in my opinion is a vote by mass media consumption.  30 second sound bites rule the day.  The press influences primary results by publicizing poll data and predicting a winner prior to the primary. The "I want to support winner" people vote based on polling, and their belief in the candidates 30second sound bites.  

The Democratic Party should not drink the Clinton koolaid.  They are wrong about caucuses.  They are wrong about their ability to win in November.  There is no greater uniter of the factions of the Republican Party than the Clinton name.
If the Clintons steal the nomination from Obama he should run as an independent - might be political suicide but should keep Billary from winning the White House. Yes, it probably gives McCain the White House for 4 years but that is better than 1 more second of the Clintons running this country - NO WAY OBAMA doesn't get the nomination but they'll do all they can to try and steal it - what a crock.
Let's fair...I went primary and caucus in TX, it was really not professional for Obama supportors to put O for Obama and C for Clinton in the long list of caucusing snce it is easy to change C to O when you hand wroten done...I am really questions about why 90% caucus went to Obama.  I am wondering how many C changed to O...  
How much does Obama pay you "Obama supporters" to overflow all the websites with your hatred for Hillary? You are just stupid school-kids getting paid by Obama!

I'm sick and tired of your self righteous crap!

To Martin:

I'm 60...and fully of OBAMA ENERGY.
This is hilarious!!!!!!  (pun intended)  After eight years of Whitewater, Rose Law Firm, Foster, Monica, etc. etc.  Clintonistas are "shocked!  Shocked I say!" over the say or do anything to get the nomination tactics.  During one of her senate campaigns here in NY, when she was caught out in an "exageration" (never say lie), her staff member explained that she HAD to say that in order to get elected!  And she assured us that she was not using the NY Senate seat to position herself for running for president.  

Now, the desperate Ms. Clinton is reaching for anything that will reverse the trends.  I expect some scandlous tidbit about Mr. Obama to turn up just before the convention.  He won't have time to prove his innocence.  He will only be able to spend 8 years "proving his loyaloty" to the party.  That's the price of another shot at the nomination.

Keep going folks.  McCain looks more presidential every day.
I think people should take her duplicity and unwillingness to keep her commitments seriously in considering her for the presidency. Isn’t that what we have now with George W. ? A strategy of the “ends justices the means” is HillaryLogicMoralityEthics. She’s trying to tear down every extant political institution that doesn’t fit her needs to get elected president. Imagine what happens when Obama or McCain try to do that. Or Congress.

Will Hillary do this with the EU, NATO, the UN, Russia, and every agreement the US has ever made?

To we the people?

This is scary stuff for a leader-want-to-be to be (trying to) do. Be afraid. Very afraid.
"the dirty politics that Hillary Clinton has introduced"

ST in Houston, please define what you call "dirty". Pointing out differences isn't dirty. The issue re: superdelegates isn't "dirty" or against the rules. If it is dirty, why is your candidate trying to nab up superdelegates now before the voting is even done? Why has his camp been harassing, threatening black uncommitted superdelegates? Now, for me that harassment of those people is DIRTY. Obama is an ambitious politician. He's been in six campaigns in 12 years. He and his wife both have said they "know how to play Chicago style politics". Don't kid yourself, you candidate is not "pure as driven snow."
You can argue that there is a fundamental issue with the caucus system, but i think the problem most people have with the way Hillary Clinton's campaign has whined about it is that they knew the rules going into the primary season. They just werent worried when they were the presumptive nominee. Now that she's been exposed for having a faulty base of supporters nationwide, and is no longer the front runner for the nomination, she wants to cry foul.

If she didnt think the caucuses were democratic enough for her, she should have made this stand in December, not when she's lost the majority of them and trying to find excuses on how to make up for the lost delegates now in March.
"Say what you may, America will NEVER elect a black president, period." - the real message throughout Clinton's campaign, the subtext of her messages - racist through and through - thanks Frank Wilson of Brooklyn for your honesty.
But the majority of people these days are up-to-date and want an honest president who's savvy to what we need NOW.  And they will vote Obama - a real American, and our next president, whether righties, Republican or Democrat, like it or not.
I think this argument is at root part of the process that the elite in this country have been using over the last thirty years to dumb down the voters in this country rather than value them. This is by philosophy a republican argument not a democratic one, it is disingenous to say that caucuses are undemocratic because it disenfranchises the working class and elderly.

Anyone who has participated in caucuses observes that the elders are respected, listened to, as they provide leadership in deciding the party platform. (lots of senior citizens are in attendance who still actually believe in the democratic process and the power of the vote--not "party bosses"). As part of this a confidential voting box is provided, people can vote and leave but all are invited to participate. Votes designate the proportion of delegates, but community meetings encourage community building, voter motivation and excitement, the sense of belonging in the formation of a movement. These are the root reasons why Obama, with his community organization experience has most benefited from the caucus states. Add to that the philosophy of only campaigning in the blue states that has led to so few democratic wins over the last thirty years and the Clinton campaign adheres to that losing strategy...enough has been said about us states who are too small and unimportant, too red, undemocratic. The voter is getting the message that Obama's campaign instead is one of all the people. Isn't that part of our Declaration? Come on people. The democrats have got to figure this out or we will find another repub in the white house.

Democrats philosophically place equal value on everyone's perspective and voice and debate includes voting on resolutions and reaching consensus agreements. Most caucus states include the right to be released from work in order to attend the caucus, just like the right to leave work to vote, or participate in juries, is supported. (I have been a working mother who gets home exhausted, most of the people who showed up at our precinct caucus were in that similar category, but people not participating has been from the growing hopelessness that participation is meaningless as we have seen systematic disenfranchisement at the voting booth.) Caucuses have been the root of how our government works as participatory.

I am not saying that primaries do not have their advantages in allowing early voting, objectivity and a larger availability and convenience for the voter. But the outcomes are more subject to media spin, the last minute sound bite from unscrupulous candidates, as we saw in Ohio, and people see it as a responsibility but doesn't leave them with as deep a feeling of belonging or part of the party as the caucus do. The caucus system is supposed to build grass root leadership, and lead to mobilization to support chosen candidates in the eventual election campaign. My memory tells me that it used to be that the Democrats endorsed a candidate and then we had a final primary in September, at least in MN. Endorsed in the same way that the unions or other civic groups do. With endorsement comes support and recognition. This suggests the necessity for membership in the democratic party that goes deeper than self labeling on a ballot. As view Lieberman beating the democratically endorsed candidate in his election, running as an independent against your former party is a handicap but always an option.

The US government was based by our founding fathers by debate and consensus, and an educated electorate is one of the basic principals, as in a full participatory democracy. in a "1984" Orwellian conversion of meanings, the Clinton campaign is subtly reversing the definition of participatory...don't trust the humble worker voter that they deceitfully pretend to represent...trust the expert elite who will decide things for us for our own good. Establishing the voter as a passive receiver of government, persuaded to give over our rights. in this it is politics as usual to what we have seen over the last 7 years. it is at root a major philosophical difference over what America really means. I fear for us, because i don't want to continue down the road we have been for the last 7 years, but also the last 30 years. It has been a progression of weaning the voter and the worker from our uppity pride and dumbing down the populace, distracting us like ancient Rome, while our government is gutted for the benefit of the few.

Anyone is welcome at democratic meetings, anyone is welcome and is given equal voice at a caucus, anyone can be elected from their peers to represent them at county, then regional then state caucus and then be chosed to represent their peers at the national caucus. Primaries designate proportional candidate affiliations and then the candidates can choose the delegate (at the recommendations of the local campaigns) who represents them at the national. That might not be "bad" but is it more democratic? I think not.
GOOD JOB!  I like the extra anyalsis that was done by your group to differentiate the delegates won in primaries vs. those won in caucuses.

Its okay if the Clintons want to make that differentiation, but I don't think that will make a difference to the delegates because "them's the rules".  Clinton spent her February spinning, Obama spent it winning.  And that's the reason Obama will be the nominee.
More delegates does not mean anything if no one has enough to be nominated on the first ballot second and succeeding ballots is where the arm twisting and he deal making comes in this should be the most exciting convention in years. I am looking forward to seeing it.
I don't understand how many times Hilary tries to change the rules after it's obvious she is still loosing and try to reinvent the wheel and backpeddle after she consently falls behind in the math.

I apparently clear that she is not playing with a full deck. She will stop at nothing to get what she wants cry, lie, steal and cheat just to get people to vote for her. I am ashamed to be a democrate let alone even to admit I voted for Bill Clinton.

What they both represent is distasteful and they have no morals at all how can anyone in their right mind vote for her. All she had done is hide behind her husband and use his predisency to get credit for something she's never done. She will lie when confronted with issues and dance around the answers.

If Hilary get nominated I will become an indepedent voter in Novemeber!!!!!!

We as american's want change Only Obama has the courage to stand up for it we need a president who can unite this country not tear it apart with lies, deciet and dishonesty.

Yes we Can!!!!!!!
States with caucuses do not allow our sons and daughters in the active military to participate. Caucuses are undemocratic.
Why do we keep saying that Obama has won the popular vote?

1,185,359 people voted for Clinton in FL & MI! And although neither candidate campaigned in either state, one of Obama's adds aired(illegally) in FL - Clinton STILL won!

(Obama took HIMSELF off the ballot in MI because he knew that he was already dreadfully behind in the polls - Clinton won MI 60% - 40% gainst "Uncommited" - presumably Obama voters)!

Now, the Preacher of HOPE and Populism wants to disenfranchise 1.8M people - making the 2000 Fl vote debacle look like an immaterial accounting error!

The Clinton camp is offering to pay $15M to re-vote in each state - if Obama matches!

What's the deal Barack? Is HOPE only audacious when it serves it's master - YOU?

Let's HOPE that Obama comes around to democracy: One Person, One Vote! Not one group of caucus leaders representing hundreds, by way of empty proxy! That's not even consensus!

Let's make this right!  
Thanks to ST, Houston, TX for this web-site information.  I am going to repeat it here for those who may have missed it:

"I urge anyone remotely repulsed by the constant barage of Clinton dirty politics to write Chairman Dean of the Democratic National Committee using this link:" http://www.democrats.org/page/petition/chairman
It's interesting to see Dems admitting that Hillary and/or "The Clintons" in general are really looking sleazy with much of this campaign stuff. As a moderate Republican and no candidate of choice currently, maybe now some of you Dems can see how the other side has viewed the Clintons from the early '90s. The inexcusable pardons in Bill's final days as Prez should have been the final straw I would have thought but they just keep coming back on the scene with more and more arrogance.
I really don't like the way Hillary is conducting her campaign,it feels almost as though she's trying to trick the public into believing in things which aren't true. I don't get how she can say Obama has no experiance when he served more time in the senate than she did. Being the spouse of the president doesn't make you qualified, the same way being the spouse of a surgeon doesn't mean you can perform surgery. The media & the people need to start calling her out on all her suppossed qualifications instead of letting her say things without backing them up.
I think both campaigns, Rendell and the media failed to appreciate the intelligence of the average voter.  It will be a sad day in this country should the Clinton's steal the primary, the people will not tolerate it and I fear a strong rebellion like nothing this country has ever experience.  Hillary was quoted as saying to the republicans "be careful what you ask for."  I think Hill-Bill should also be careful what they ask for. The campaign tactics they have stooped to makes me for the first time in my life ashamed to be an american.  I never thought I would see the day when a candidate's credentials would be based on the self induced hardship one endures from an unfaithful husband.  That say's alot about her followers doesn't it.  Where were they when other females were running for the presidency.  Oh, I forgot those women were not former first ladies and their husbands did not go around doing extraordinary things with young girls and cigars under their noses.
We all knew at least one extremely bratty girl when we were young. She cried when she needed attention. She wailed when everything did not go her way. She cried foul when people voted against her and she lost.And she thought that behind-the-curtains deals could get her what she wanted. That girl is an older, but quite unwise, HRC. If the DNC and Obama campaign allow her to steal this nomination, the African Americans should leave the party to demonstrate that such thievery should not exist in America. The fact that she remains in the race is disgusting. Had Obama lost 12 straight primaries...where would he be? Only in America in 2008 can someone still possibly cheat & steal an election.....what irony for a supposed democracy, and a Party by that name.


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