Judging the Florida Democratic Party

Posted: Thursday, March 13, 2008 11:44 AM by Chuck Todd

From NBC's Chuck Todd
Last week, during an appearance on MSNBC's "Tim Russert," I made a declaration that Florida's Democratic Party was one of the worst in the country; a comment that raised the ire of many Democrats in the state of Florida.

I've been deluged with facts about the state of the party from 2004 forward. Admittedly, I based my declaration on the history of the party which thru 2004 was disastrous. When you compare the number of Democrats in the state with the number of elections the party won, it really was no contest; Florida's Democratic Party was clearly one of under-performers compared to other state parties. The party has struggled to regain its footing since the exits of Lawton Chiles and Bob Graham who dominated the Democratic scene for three decades.

Well, after poring through the stats, the facts are not there right now to back up my claim that Florida is currently one of the worst state parties in the country. Now, the party still has a lot of work to do before the state party can be called one of the best, but it appears since 2004, there's been improvement. There was a massive staff turnover in 2005 after the double-gut punches of losing the state for Kerry by a greater margin than Gore lost it and then Betty Castor losing an election in a campaign she won. (Many a candidate wins a campaign and loses the election; happens more often than you realize, but the Republican ground game was just better than the Democrats, and that was difference between winning and losing for Castor in that contest with Mel Martinez.)

In the last two years, the party has picked up nine GOP held state house seats, two Cong. seats (despite the gerrymander advantage held by the Republicans), won a statewide cabinet post (the victor was Alex Sink, who is seen as the frontrunner for the Dem GOV nod whenever she decides she wants it).

So here's admitting to a bit of hyperbole in my comments on MSNBC last weekend; While not yet a top performing state party, it appears the Florida Democratic party is on much better footing today than they were even two years ago. Obviously, I'll judge them again based on results because at the end of the day, state parties and national parties should be judged on wins and losses.

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Comments

Nice to know they're trending up...and thanks for the clarification.

Lisa, New Britain, CT (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 11:56 AM)

You are forgiven for that. But NOT for sitting there and raising the question about the colors of the states on the MSNBC map, and then letting Russert get away with his not-so-bright reply. Remember? You asked why a winner was determined by popular vote, and not delegate count, since Texas was as much a BO state as a HRC state.
Russert replied that "well, we did it tht way in Nevada, so we should just keep doing it that way."
DUH! The "we were wrong once, so we should just keep getting it rong" may well be one of the dumbest journalistic comments I have ever heard.
Your remarks about Florida are pale by comparison!

Bob D, Virginia (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 11:59 AM)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUbUBTlmAiA

Obama's Pastor and mentor. Watch as he spews hatred and racial epitahs at his church servoces, and Obama was there.

John Doe (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 11:59 AM)

Chuck:
You can be forgiven for your comments. Who knew? That state's organizational skills appear, on the surface anyway, to be near nonexistant. Lemme say it then. Florida is a political basketcase. A little less whinning, a little more action and grab a clue as to how to run an election that counts and actually reflects the wishes of all its citizens.

Ian (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:00 PM)

Don't take any nonsense from Florida, Chuck. You continue to be the best part of any show on MSNBC. All I need is Chucky Todd and CNN's election map, and I am a happy man. Tell GE to buck up and get this done. I think a late night show, say 10PM, called Chuck Todd and The Numbers, is in order.

Brian
http://www.politicalinaction.com

Brian (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:01 PM)

Very interesting about the Betty Castor v Mel Martinez race. Perhaps a case of voters saying they would vote for the woman but then voting for a man? From your vast political knowledge, what is the record for women winning state-wide elections in the South? Other than Lurleen Wallace and Elizabeth Dole I can think of none.

M Wells San Diego (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:02 PM)

If the Democrtas cannot even run a campaign among themselves --- HOW COULD THEY RUN OUR COUNTRY ???

Democrats, including the Clintons, made their campaign rules --- now Hillary does not want to abide by the rules --- so the Clintons are throwing the Democratic party in chaos and the party is allowing them to do so.

Dems To Run Our Country ??? (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:03 PM)

As usual, Mr. Chuck Todd is correct. A few weeks ago I saw Karen Thurman, chair of the Fl Dem. party, doing a television interview. She said the people of Fl have spoken and the delegates need to be seated. The interviewer then asked her about the fact that no candidates had campaigned in FL. She said that wasn't true. Florida gets the cable news channels and had ample opportunities to hear the candidates. She then said that some candidates had carboard cut-outs of themselves placed on street cornes as a campaign tool. Maybe the FDP isn't the worst in their country, but their Chairperson surely is. If you couldn't tell, Ms. Thurman is an avowed Hillary supporter.

mg atl ga (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:09 PM)

If the Florida Democratic party was halfway decent, then there would not be a debate going on right now about what to do with their delegates.

J. R., Jeffersonville, IN (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:09 PM)

QUESTION FOR CHUCK,

Or anyone else in the know. I don't know if MI and FL were open primaries or not, but if they were, what's stopping Democrats who voted in the Republican Primary in either state from voting again in a "do-over" primary?

Should these people be allowed to vote twice?

adam/Brooklyn New York City (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:10 PM)

Any chance you can clarify the concept of winning a campaign vs winning an election?

jg, NY (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:11 PM)

Facts or no facts... I think you were still right. Why are we considering letting that basketcase state of senile retirees determine who we pick as president? They failed us on Gore. They failed us on Kerry. How many times do we need to touch the fire to make sure it's gonna burn?

They are not "trending up" as far as Presidential Politics are concerned. The media needs to stop letting itself get pushed around. First, the Clinton campaign entirely controls the airwaves with a push of disgusting guilt-tripping (like it's the media's fault she's an evil-do-whatever-it-takes Democratic version of Karl Rove or Dick Cheney). Now, you're letting Florida push you around?! Say no! I'm standing my ground! I'll take it back if you deliver in November!

Ron, TX (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:13 PM)

I agree with Brian. When Chuck Todd speaks, people listen.

Nick, Morgan Hill, CA (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:15 PM)

I am shocked that the Clinton Campaign is not calling for your resignation. I agree with you 100%. This state and FL Dem party do have some issues to "work out". Thank God I am registered to vote elsewhere. You rock, Chuck. Love you on Countdown.

Dave, Tampa (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:18 PM)

HEY JOHN DOE,
THANKS FOR THE LINK,BUT DID YOU NOT KNOW PEOPLE THE MEDIA ESPECIALLY DO NOT CARE IF IT IS COMING FROM OBAMA SUPPORTERS IT IS GOD'S WORDS ANYONE ELSE SAYS
"A BLACK CAR DROVE PAST" AND THEY ARE RACIST

SAD DAY IN AMERICA,FL (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:20 PM)

John Doe - so you agree with everything your pastor, clergy, or pope says. Get a brain.

OBwan, IN (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:23 PM)

Chuck, you forget we had Jeb for 8 yrs, who gave the election to his brother and generally screwed up Florida in sooooo many ways as our govenor. Does this sound familiar? Oh yea, his brother George has screwed up this whole country really bad too, so THAT is what made the state of Florida...ah shall we say...even more crazy politically than it was originally. However, they( the people) have been astute enough to choose the correct candidate for president this time around with Hillary. Seems many of the Obama folks have had the common sense sucked out of their brains, and replaced with glazed eyes and mindless repetetive chants of yes we can and change, change, and vicious remarks about Hillary, who happens to be a in their own party. Our country is NOT ready for a female president. American men are way too insecure.

j fl (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:25 PM)

John Doe ...
Have you noticed we are ignoring you ??

tired of spite and innuendo (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:25 PM)

Despite the improvement, they are still sitting around arguing about why they blew it, and why they need a second chance this time around. These re-votes will inevitably end up in court...AGAIN, so while there is improvement, I am not sure you are too far off.

Jim Tekcirc, Chicago (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:26 PM)

Do Carter and Gore Need to Head Down to Florida?

Dear President Carter and Vice President Gore:

This following is an email I sent to the DNC. I sincerely urge each of you would get involved in this situation.

[QUOTE]If the democratic party doesn’t understand why votes count, in Florida no less, then we are truly, truly lost. Do we need Jimmy Carter to come and oversee elections in THIS country now? What the hell!?!

I don’t care what Florida’s republican politicians did to tick off the DNC. I don't care what any politicians did to tick off the DNC. Voters deserve to have their votes counted. Voters in Florida went out in record numbers and VOTED in good faith. Voting is the cornerstone of democracy. And what a pathetic way to rationalize giving Obama an advantage - not counting votes in Florida. Where have I heard this before?!?

This is voter suppression, and I don't care who is suppressing it or what their excuses are - IT IS WRONG, and we all know it.

I wish Al Gore would jump in and take charge of this issue. He may be the only person with the credibility and neutrality to resolve this situation.

Besides, do you think voters in Florida and Michigan are going to be fine with being disenfranchised and vote for either democrat in November? Can we PLEASE stop shooting ourselves in the foot and savaging our own party and principles?!?

When democrats start playing fast and loose with votes so openly, something has gone very wrong. I think Howard Dean is being a complete ass about this. He should be more concerned with making sure voters are heard than shutting them out with stupid gamesmanship and "rules." It's NOT the voters fault all this BS went down the way it did. They showed up in good faith and VOTED.

I’m starting to think McCain deserves to win if Democrats are this hopelessly stupid and lost.

Respectfully,

Teri B . . .[/QUOTE]

[B]You can email Carter and Gore at: [email]carterweb@emory.edu[/email] and [email]info@carthagegroup.com[/email] [/B]

No matter which side you're on in the battle, if you're a Democrat, you know better than this, because we know what it's like to suffer because votes were suppressed and dirty-butterfly-ballot-tricks were used.

Seriously, have we completely lost our souls?

Teri B., Birmingham, AL (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:26 PM)

Unrelated to this thread but I am disappointed that Tucker was canceled from the evening line up. I used to detest him (bow tie era), but lately had grown to look forward to seeing his show each day, it will be missed. thanks

jill OK (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:26 PM)

NYTIMES: OBAMA/GORE

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/13/obama-chats-with-gore/

JJ (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:26 PM)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUbUBTlmAiA

It's an outrage that no one but Fox news has reported on this.

Obama's Pastor and mentor. Watch as he spews hatred and racial epitahs at his church services, and Obama was there

John Doe (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:26 PM)

this election is all about sexism. black men had the right to vote over woman. so woman always lose out. ALWAYS. The boys clubhouse still has "NO GIRLS ALLOWED" on it in the US.

JeanneGA (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:26 PM)

All well and good Chuck but that doesn't cancel my ire at the State DEM parties of Michigan and Florida who are responsible for disobeying the legitimate requirements of the DNC. They were given ample time to comply but they chose to go ahead and dare the national party carry out their sanction. I don't know about you but when my children were young and began testing us they ran into a solid wall of consistency. If they complained about a sanction, they were punished further for whining about a known outcome.
It is a shame that the DEM voters of Florida and Michigan had their election robbed but it was taken from them by their own state party. They should take a bigger part in their local party. Could even be used by the GOP. I can hear it now. "Liberal Democrats run their party like they raise their children. With indulgence and inconsistency"
Well lets bail them out with a do over so their self esteem isn't negatively impacted.

Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:28 PM)

Please send this to Keith Olberman:

How come Keith Olbermann didn't do a "Special Comment" about the horrible remarks that Jesse Jackson Jr made about Hillary on YOUR NETWORK?

Jesse Jackson Jr comments about Hillary not crying over DEAD Katrina victims should have gotten
a "Special Comment" from Keith Olberman.

Also, there was racial overtone in his remarks.

Obama never denounce these comments and Jackson is still a high level staff member in the Obama's camp

As matter of fact, the media rarely even mention Jackson comments.

Also, did Keith do a "Special Comment" about David Axerold indirectly accusing Hillary Clinton of Bhutto's Murder?

I know Norah O'Donnell found Jackson comments outrageous.

I send this to the Hillary's camp.

scbrown (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:33 PM)

This is the man who inspired Obama to write "the audacty of hope" According to Barack himself, this is Barack's mentor. Who is the racist here? Is this the politics of brining people together or dividing them. Obamasheep, wake up!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPjVp3PLnVs

anton a, st. cloud, mn (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:35 PM)

LET'S TALK ABOUT THE FACTS OF THE FLORIDA PRIMARY ELECTION : IT WAS THE "REPUBLICAN" GOV. CRIST AND "REPUBLICAN" LEGESLATORS WHO MOVED UP THE PRIMARY DATE, WITH THE FULL KNOWLEDGE THAT THE DNC WOULD NOT AND COULD NOT ACCEPT THE RESULTS.THEY ARE THE ONES TO BLAME FOR THE MESS. A "RECORD" NUMBER OF VOTERS WENT TO THE POLLS AND VOTED IN THIS LEGAL ELECTION.NOW WHY DOES SOMEONE GO ASK GOV. CRIST(WHO WANTS TO BE THE V.P. CANIDATE) WITH MCCAIN, WHY HE WAS SO MUCH FOR THIS AND HOW IS "HE" GOING TO CLEAN UP HIS MESS ?

Jim Jones, Venice,Florida (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:37 PM)

HP in Boston aka John Doe aka Clinton staffer: we're not interested in your drivel.

Thanks for the nonsense (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:38 PM)

CHUCK, Obama has zero credibility in claiming that he will united all America when he doesn't even want the people of Florida to have a voice in this election.

I AM WAITING FOR YOUR ARTICLE ON PASTOR WRIGHT'S VIDEO WHICH WAS AIRED ON FOX NEWS. YOU JUMPED ALL OVER GERALDINE FERRARO STORY...YOU GUYS ARE LOSING IN THE RATINGS GAME. FOX IS DOING THE REPORTING THAT YOU GUYS WANT TO COVER UP. SHAME ON MSNBC.

LET'S GET TO READ ABOUT THIS ON FIRST-READ AND READ
WHAT COMMENTS ARE WRITTEN ABOUT WHAT IS TRULY RACIST AND HATRED DISGUISED AS CHRISTIANITY AND LOVE.

FROM, I GUESS, ONE OF THOSE RICH WHITE AMERICANS WHO ARE LOVED TO HELL BY PASTOR WRIGHT.

THE VIDEO ON YOUTUBE DID NOT CONTINUE WITH HIS DEGRADING BEHAVOUR ABOUT BILL CLINTON AS SHOWN ON FOX NEWS.

WAKE UP AMERICA. TO USE OBAMA'S WORDS, WE ARE BEING HOODWINKED.

I AM NOT A FOX NEWS REGULAR, BUT THANK YOU FOX FOR THIS ONE. I KNOW THAT YOU DON'T LIKE HILLARY, BUT AT LEAST YOU ARE COVERING THE DEMOCRATS WITH SOME BALANCE, UNLIKE CNN AND MSNBC.

TO MSNBC PRODUCERS; KEITH OLBERMAN'S COMMENTARY WAS OVER THE TOP. LET US HEAR FROM HIM ABOUT THE WRIGHT VIDEO WITH GREATER PASSION FOR JUSTICE OR HIS CREDIABILITY IS SHOT.

Laura, Sammamish WA (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:40 PM)

Chuck,
They ARE the worst (at least tied with Michigan). What do these Florida Dem cheerleaders say when you ask them how they would react if their kid broke the rules and then came back and said, "aw, come on Mom, you were just kidding about that." Then when Mom said, "no, I wasn't" the kid threw a nonstop temper-tantrum about how Mom was "abusive and anti-kid."

They're doing the same thing.

Unbelievable (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:41 PM)

Hear hear to the Chuck Todd Show! I have always been an NBC devotee but have become addicted to MSNBC and you are the brightest spot. My son told me he heard you referred to as "the designated driver for MSNBC". That says it all.

Diane M. Holland, Mi (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:42 PM)

Miriam A. Ferguson Texas 1925 1927 Democratic wife or widow of a past state governor
Miriam A. Ferguson Texas 1933 1935 Democratic wife or widow of a past state governor
Lurleen Wallace Alabama 1967 1968 Democratic wife or widow of a past state governor
Martha Layne Collins Kentucky 1983 1987 Democratic first woman elected Governor of Kentucky and only the third not a wife or widow of a past state governor
Ann Richards Texas 1991 1995 Democratic
as Governor 31 December 1998 to 11 January 1999.
Kathleen Blanco Louisiana 2004 2008 Democratic Louisiana's first female governor. Governor during Katrina. Fought bitterly with Bush-White House over Katrina reconstruction money.
.

MAry Ratliff, Houston, TX (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:43 PM)

It's "poring over" facts -- not "pouring through"

Elkins Park (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:43 PM)

Chuck,
Stop being suckered into the Clinton campaign's desperate strategies. First, you continue to analyse the popular vote by including Florida and Michigan votes (at least, until you were shouted down by Chris Matthews and others). And then, you were suckered into analysing the effect of so-called "caucus delegates". You are being played for a fool by the Clinton campaign and are showing incredible naivete. Wake up!

Bob in Denver (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:44 PM)

MSNBC,

Would you start moderating your comments to remove ones from people like "John Doe", who make no attempt whatsoever to respond to the content of the blog posts, and instead post the same drivel over and over? It's not censorship; it's simply good customer service.

Jerry Tsai (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:45 PM)

Amen Brian. No need to apologize Mr. Todd.

Seth, Kalamazoo, MI (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:45 PM)

We don't like women or blacks getting too uppity down here in the proud south.

john Mccain is a real war hero and he will keep us safe by attacking Iran and starting WWIII before those muslims like obama do it.

Jerry Corpus Christi Texas (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:46 PM)

Chuck,
The only reason you made that comment about the Democratic Party in Fla. is because Hillary won the primary there, and is very likely to win a "do-over."
You and your MSNBC cohorts have painted everything negative that relates to Hillary, and you've done the opposite for Obama.
Case in point; last week you said there was no net gain of delegates for Hillary after her March 4th wins in Ohio and Texas, then yesterday you said that Obama wiped out her March 4th delegate gains, with his wins in Wyoming and Mississippi.
Well, which is it? Did she net more delegates than Obama on March 4th or not?
I got to tell you, it's absolutely sickening to watch this.
You lose more credibility with each passing day.

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:46 PM)

There will be no redo of the Florida and Michigan primaries. Consider: Who is going to pay for this when there will be no way for Clinton to catch Obama in the pledged delegate vote? Would you contribute anything to rerun races where the results will not change the outcome of the nomination (ie, Obama wins)? Instead, the Florida and Michigan delegations will be seated 50/50 which will bring Obama that much closer to the 2,025 delegates needed.

Bob in Denver (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:49 PM)

By the way Chuck...have the GUTS to post coments that are critical of your's and MSNBC's BOGUS, and overtly PRO-Obama election coverage!
You SISSY!

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:52 PM)

Todd, you were right the first time. You have to take a more careful look at the South Florida Dems - Schultz / Meek. Meek should be Obama and his area will go that way in new election but he's Clinton. Schultz has hooked star to Nelson, who is begging for Clinton's VP. He will be voted out next election, you watch. He sold out Dems in Florida. I think the whole thing - moving the vote up and dissing the DNC was planned from the start.

DiverGirl (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:52 PM)

People in Florida just want to be left alone to enjoy their famous sunshine, beaches, ocean, fishing and boating, Disney World, Jacksonville Football Team, Seminoles and Gators. Miami Hurricanes, etc., etc. Politics is a pain in the rear to them and I don't blame them. Tallahassee is a beautiful laid back capital where those in government are trying to maintain the States beauty while attempting to manage the influx of a population imncluding tons of retired folks and having to put up with snow-birds all winter. So don't be too hard on them.

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:52 PM)

Chuck,

You are the saving grace of reason in MSNBC. I like your big picture attitude rather than most pundits trying to over-project the impact of one small news or a phrase taken out-of-context or analyze the latest poll. Talking of polls, we seem to be getting hourly numbers now with most ridiculous data points.

Gary (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:57 PM)

So, Chuck - thanks for admitting that you went on national TV and based your commentary on 5 year old data. How many other national commentators do the same thing every day? Who can we trust?

Marlin (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 1:02 PM)

The DNC has no choice if they wish to have a chance at Michigan and Florida in November. Both sides' supporters can scream back and forth as to what is fair, but one thing they cannot do is blame the Florida and Michigan voters. The DNC and the State Legislatures are to blame for not working out their problems. Voters do not like being silenced. If they are not allowed to "vote", not caucus, many will cast a protest vote in November against the Democratic establishment. Anything but a full voting primary is going to cheat the voters and the candidates. Caucuses have shown that they are not a full representation of those that wish to vote; Texas is a classic example. In these two States you cannot afford to give up votes, they can swing on a dime. This is America; we have the right to VOTE! Again, do not blame the voters of these 2 States, they are victims as well. I am more interested in a Democratic President in the White House. This is the ultimate goal. Put aside the selfish and childish behavior and understand if these voters as disenfranchised it will not matter if Obama or Clinton is the nominee. In fact if the voters are not allowed to be heard Clinton will actually have the better chance since she "is" pushing to have them heard. Have you all every thought that Clinton could win both States, but Obama still wins the nomination? That would be fine since we, Democrats, allowed them to at least be heard. Come on already!!! Geesh!!!

Mark, VA (Sent Thursday, March 13, 2008 1:02 PM)

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