Let's do it. Obama will win Michigan.

Oh, by the way. We have a new name for Hillary based on a previous thread where she and her idiot advisors Penn and Wolfson keep up their delusional comments that they are winning or could win this nomination.

Her new name is Baghdad Bob, or more appropriately, Baghdad Hillary.

SO Hillary wins? Even though it was agreed it would not count in advance?

Hillary Clinton has no principles:

NHPR's Laura Knoy: "So, if you value the DNC calendar, why not just pull out of Michigan? Why not just say, Hey Michigan, I'm off the ballot?"

Hillary Clinton: "Well, you know, It's clear, this election they're having is not going to count for anything"

Here's a link to the short (edited) sound byte with the interviewer's question and the response:

http://www.jabberwonk.com/flinker.cfm?cliid=zydzt

Here's a link to the unedited longer byte with her full answer:

http://www.jabberwonk.com/flinker.cfm?cliid=u01y4

Here's the link to the full original NHPR interview on 10/10/07 :

http://www.nhpr.org/node/13858

I think that is it pretty clear that she has "changed" her position on this now that she is not winning.

This is ridiculous IMO.  It wouldn't even be on the table if Hillary wasn't losing.  

AH, the underloved state of Florica.

An ABC News review of dozens of Rev. Wright's (Obama's Pastor) sermons, offered for sale by the church, found repeated denunciations of the U.S.  based on what he described as his reading of the Gospels and the treatment of black Americans.

"The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people," he said in a 2003 sermon. "God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme."

In addition to damning America, he told his congregation on the Sunday after Sept. 11, 2001 that the United States had brought on al Qaeda's attacks because of its own terrorism.

"We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye," Rev. Wright said in a sermon on Sept. 16, 2001.

"We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost," he told his congregation.


Obama's Pastor: God Damn America, U.S. to Blame for 9/11

Maybe the DNC can borrow the money from Peter Paul?  Then repay him after the trial is over.

Sounds good. Although the latest polls show them tied at 41-41. So we're likely going to wait 2 months, spend several million dollars, and end up with both candidates probably splitting the delegates with nothing changing. But if Hillary wants to drag out her misery for another 2 months, so be it. The end result is inevitable.

I don't get it. No matter what happens, Clinton will not get the nomination. So why waste all this money on a stupid re-vote? The reason why the Republicans are not going to stop this is obvious.

And to all you who say that Obama will not carry California and NY in the general election, I have some swamp land to sell you.

Trev,
You responded to my Florida/Michigan analogy that said no good parent in their right mind would suddenly say to their kid "yes honey, I know you broke the rules but because you're throwing a temper-tantrum, I'll overlook it just this time."  Your response and twist on the analogy was clever (punishing Florida is like punishing my son for what my daughter did").  However, it's grossly and logically flawed.  

We live in a representative democracy.  If the voters in Florida and Michigan are angry with what has happened to them (and they should be), they should fire the people who made the decision.   You know as well as I the reason the Dem Party had to penalize Florida and Michigan.  If they did not, EVERY state would have moved its primary up and there would have been a fight to see how many states could have their primaries in DECEMBER.

All the rest of this is just noise and childish behavior by Senators, Representatives, and Clinton activists who are upset that she is losing.  You know it.  I know it.  And the rhetoric about "disenfranchisement" doesn't fool anybody with a brain.

QUESTION TO CHUCK TODD:

Is there any word on Florida and Michigan super delegates? I know that Clinton is expected to net 30 supers from florida but I haven't heard one thing about if their superdelegates would be seated.

Woohoo!

The reality is that if you hold a revote in Mich, or even just give Obama the uncommitted delegates, you could seat Florida and Michigan and Clinton still can't win.

Barack (No middle name) Obama doesn’t want the Florida vote to ever count because he doesn’t want the 25 Clinton Super Delegates, along with the popular vote and Florida General Primary delegates that will erase a good chunk of his lead.

Why would Obama be resisting this, other than some lame "sticking by the rules" excuse?  I have to point out - I am an Obama supporter - resisting a re-vote makes it sounds like he's just worried he wouldn't win in Michigan.

Private funds to run an election?

I think NOT.... It doe not mater which candidate’s supporters contribute the very action of such would invalidate the election itself...

Read the constitution....

An Open Primary, Chuck? As in people who voted in the GOP primary in January could vote again in the Democratic primary now? Given the shift from GOP actual support for Obama in early races to GOP votes for Hillary now just to create mischief, this would be a travesty.

Chuck Todd is the only guy outside Obama's campaign who really understands the nomination process. Hillary should have hired him.

Florida - get your act together.  If they can do it in Michigan, you can do it in Florida!

Hillary says it is fair to count Michigan, even though Barack's name was not on the ballot.  That's like a basketball game being cancelled due to bad weather and the home team arguing victory.  That kind of illogical thinking is not what I am looking for in a commander-in-chief.  

If act the Obama campaign could make a compelling argument using Hillary's own illogical, self-serving comments that she is not fit be be commander-in-chief.  

I applaud Keith Oberman's comments as they were right on target.  

Florida would be stupid to let an opportunity like this pass them by. This election is too important for any voter to be disenfranchised. They had better do something to get those delegates seated or Florida will once again hand the White House to the Republicans.

I do not want my donated dollars used for a Michigan re-vote. Now if Michigan wants to use my donated dollars to OUST their Gov. and congressmen who voted to move up the Primary. I'm all for it.  This sets a bad precedent for future elections!

To all the REAL Democrats:

Before you write off Obama, remember, Clinton started with the negative attacks, and people said, “oh he’s too weak to stand up to her” Then he does and he becomes a monster. Clinton has done quite a bit of lying, her experience for one.

She started the race baiting, BLACK PEOPLE VOTE DEMOCRATIC. They voted for Bill Clinton, and can you just face it we don’t want HER. She has turned this into a race issue and it wasn’t. I actually supported her until she turned ugly, and lost my vote and respect!

She only apologized because she was in front of a Black crowd, hoping for support!

So before you sit and call him a liar, GET THE FACTS FOR YOURSELF. Most of you post comments and don’t even read the article. Your comments are based on the title of the article.

Before you hand this country over to another Republican, GO TO THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS AND LOOK AT CLINTONS’ RECORD AND THEN LOOK AT OBAMAS’. HE HAS DRAFTED AND HAD PASSED HUNDREDS MORE BILLS THAN CLINTON. YOU CAN SEE HIS IS ABOUT ENERGY, FINANCE, SECURITY. HERS IS ABOUT NAMEING A GARDEN, DECLARING HOLIDAYS!

http://thomas.loc.gov- click for bills and resolutions!

Then and only then you will make an educated decision! Don’t be fooled, this is a very important decision!

NBC interviewed some voter in Ohio and they spewed some lies about Obama, they had “heard”. They were shocked when the reporter told them they were not even true.

Her experience has been debunked several times and many people are too enraged to even notice. She has even admitted, she was not at the table, nor had the security clearance.

For all the Rezko comments, her jury trial, Peter Paul VS Bill Clinton, Hillary Rodham Clinton, Penn. GOV Ed Rendell and their lawyer Levin, began in February, but many are too caught up to even pay attention. 3 yes THREE of Rezko co-defendants indicted have contributed to Hillary Campaign, both Senate and Presidential. Get your FACTS!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/23601329#23601329 Wow, I guess this sums up recent events and Hillarys’ campaign!

Great to hear on Michigan.

If Florida won't revote, they should at least open up voting to registered Democrats who didn't bother to go to the polls b/c they thought it wouldn't count and the candidates should campaign.

Also, if they don't do a comlete revote, then their delegations should be cut in half (like the Republicans did) and arrangements should be made to reallocate the delegates that Edwards, Richardson, etc, got.  There should be some sort of penalty for breaking the rules, without completely disenfranchising them.

I admit this isn't entirely fair to Obama, but it's better than nothing and would at least give him a shot to see what a difference campaigning could make.

ps - I was having trouble submitting the form, so I hope this doesn't duplicate!

Re-voting is wrong.  Decisions were made against Michigan and Florida by both Republican and Democratic parties for pushing thier primaries ahead of the other states.  I don't like the punishment but I reluctantly agree with it (as does everyone I know in Michigan).

Voting all over again brings up too many problems...

Are Democrats who previously voted for a Republican allowed to vote for their real Democrat choice?

Are Republicans who already chose their candidate allowed to vote for a Democrat?

Will allowing Michigan's delegates raise the 2,024 goalpost to win?

And even if it doesn't, super delegates will still decide who wins anyway.  Do the math.

And finally, let's all be honest here.  Regardless how we feel about the candidates, Obama and Clinton will end the primary very close (I give Obama a slight lead given Michigan demographics).  Is it really worth all that money, time and effort?  Especially when nobody will be truly satisfied with the results.

Revoting is merely a feel-good empty gesture.

An open primary? The previous Florida primaries were closed.

Let me say this... I didn't donate for the first time in my life to a political campaign (that being Obama's) to pay for a re-vote in a state that plain & simple broke the rules... And I strongly believe many others feel the same way!

If this is the case any future contributions may be VERY unlikely.

Obama 08 - Yes We Can!

It would be just too sweet if Obama closed the gap in Michigan!  My prayers start now.  :-)

Quit talkin about it and be about it!! either do the re-vote so it is as fair as can be or just split the delegates 50/50! Although if you add Florida and MI doesn't the number needed to win go up and noone can win without the Supers so aren't we back to square one.

Michigan seems the most likely to do a full blow redo, and I think they should.

Florida...They should take the first vote and give it 1/3rd the delegates, then have a state Caucus and give it 1/3rd the delegates.  They should take the last 1/3rd and split it evenly between Obama and Clinton.

As punishment for both states, however neither states superdelegates should count.  This would mean all votes cast in a real Michigan Primary would count.  The early one in Florida's votes would count, but would allow for a Primary allowing those who didn't vote (because they were told it didn't count) a chance to get involved.  

No one has suggested this idea (that I know of)but I bet Obama would be more open to it, and Clinton would still get the first Florida vote the way she wants.

Personally I think this situation is messed up.  I blame the Democratic leaders in Michigan and the Republican ran state government in Florida.

If Clinton finds a way to steal the election, I as a newly enfranchised voter, will go back to sports center.

Am I the only one who sees a problem with the Clinton camp paying for 100% of the primary??? Let's do the 50-50 and get this mess over with already! I am really, really tired of these two states. Next time everyone needs to follow the rules or get the heck out of the game!

And the lesson to future would-be violators of the DNC rules is what, exactly?  If you're big enough, you know we're kidding about our rules, we not only won't punish you, but we'll give you EXTRA delegates because the do-overs are late in the primary season?

This is an outrage, engineered by the Clinton campaign with the complicity of the media.  Shame!

So, please explain to me why, now, Michigan (and potentially Florida) get to have extreme power in the Democratic Primaries after they broke the party rules?  This is just ludicrous.  If the point was to punish these states for now following the rules, then why are we now rewarding them with potentially the biggest and most important votes of the campaign?  

Seat the delegates on a 50/50 split.  That seems to be the eventual result anyway, so why not just do that?  This saves money, punishes that states, and allows the delegations to be seated.

WHY IS EVERYONE SO CONCERNED THAT FEELINGS MIGHT GET HURT HERE?  THEY KNEW THE CONSEQUENCES GOING IN; THEY SHOULD HAVE TO DEAL WITH THEM!  REWARDING RULE BREAKERS SETS A TERRIBLE PRECEDENT.

--
CHAOS CONTINUES and THESE PEOPLE, THE DEMOCRATS, WANT TO RUN THE FREEWORLD.  GET REAL !  FIRST THEY HAVE TO LEARN TO RUN A NOMINATION ELECTION.  

How do democrats expect to manage something as large as universal healthcare when they can't even manage to hold a simple primary? Instead of trying to change the rules in the middle, fix them after the election. What sounds reasonable to me would be to hold 3 Super Tuesdays with each having approximately 17 states vote in each. Hold one each month for 3 months. This will give each of the candidates ample time to campaign in each state. Then each election season rotate which group will vote first. This seem like a simple solution that would be fair to all states and I am sure the American people would love to simply and even shorten this insane process we have now. Government officials are supposed to come up with solutions to complex problems, yet they can't even come up with a simple solution for a pretty simple problem. Where has common sense gone in America?

A re-vote in Michigan...

Why this is good news for Team Clinton:
If she wins Michigan, she has the opportunity to cut into the lead that Senator Obama currently holds in popular vote and pledged delegates.  It would also be, of course, another state victory.

Why this is good news for Team Obama:
Senator Clinton came out of the first vote with a 15-point victory over "Uncommitted" (55%-40%) on a ballot where Senator Obama's name didn't even appear and in a state where neither candidate campaigned.  By allowing a 2nd vote, Senator Obama has the opportunity to cut into that margin...something that the polls show he was able to do in Texas and Ohio.  The story then becomes, "She beat 'Uncommitteed' by 15 points but look what happens when you put a real candidate against her in Michigan."

As an Obama supporter, I find this a fair and equitable solution. Although I do think there should be some punishment for the Party leaders who knowingly violated the DNC rules (perhaps they should lose half their super-delegate votes), the Democratic voters of the state certainly did nothing wrong, and they have every right to participate in a fair contest.

Believing as I do that irony is the governing principle of history, it would be ironic indeed if Michigan's primary provides the winning margin for Barack Obama after all the efforts by HRC to claim Michigan's delegates as her own despite the fact that her's was the only name on the ballot.

we will see ----I hope Edwards will be on the ballot----will the whiny Obama agree to the people in MI having their votes count?

Why in the world would the Obama campaign agree to this when the Colleges would be on summer break. This is not cool guys.

With his anti-Clinton rant last night, I think it's time for Keith Olbermann to be replaced as co-anchor on the MSNBC Primary results shows in the future. He has become a player in a live contest. A journalist should be objective and call these events straight up-and-down. His comments were distasteful and, actually, unsportsmanlike!
Best,
Carl Krippendorf
Past President Local 1142
International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers

why are things so easy? simple. the governor of michigan has taken it personally because she supports clinton. and the GOP wants clinton to be nominated because she is easier to beat in November than obama. a message to the clinton compaign: it does not matter what sort of polictical engineering you may wish to perform, you will never catch up with obama because there are 12 contests ahead (including fl and michigan).

wait Obama will find some reason probably . Ummmm  my shirts wont be back from the cleaners.What another primary?? I am running out of things to blame clintons with.I dont cherry pick states but ya know these didnt count so I took my name off this one and didnt acknowledge them.Now they might count?? Oh my great friends let me tell you all about how great I am and why you must vote for me.ya right!! starting to get the pic now Obama.

This is not about Party rules, it is about voter fairness.  If the Democrats of Florida and Michigan want a voice in this Democratic process then all Democrats should join them in their effort to participate.

This is not a bad idea.  And both Obama and Clinton can compete well there.  HOWEVER, I think the real question is: does this mean that the DNC will concede that they don't have any control over state party's. The fact that both FL and MI state party leaders ignored their warning, and will still in affect, get their way - is a bad sign for our democracy.

This whole thing is so to accomodate Hillary Clinton.
She cares not about the votes of the people of FLa. and Mich. She only cares about her own selfish agendas.  Hillary is not a good person.
If Obama had won Fla and Mich. Hillary would be fighting this re-vote tooth and nails!
As a woman, I must stress that as president, (god forbid) Hillary would be a joke! I would certainly not be proud of her.

Whatever, but I hope that Senator Clinton will not somehow be the one driving the bus. We need two vehicles, and two drivers starting from the same "ready, set, go."
Mr. Dean, please no votes by mail, too scary.

Why was it so easy for the Republican leadership in Florida, to put the National Democratic Party into this problem?  

I am amazed that the Democratic Party seems so intent on "punishing" the democrats in Florida who were POWERLESS to avoid the problem.  The Republican led legislature and Republican Governor didn't care if their change in the primary violated DNC rules.

YIKES this is such poor leadership.  It frustrates me that the National Democratic Party has been so impish in providing financing to circumvent the Republican's influence on the Democratic nomination process.

I don't know if a "100% open primary" means open to Republicans as well, but I think it certainly should *not* be open to Republicans given the high stakes and the fact that it will be financed by private donations from Democrats.  Real or not, the Rush Limbaugh crowd should not have any opportunity to affect the outcome one way or the other.    

Hey why re-vote? If I violate a rule will I get a second chance in this country? What a hipocrasy when it comes to an election issue? Forget these re-vote, they all will get a chance to vote in Novemeber to elect a president. I understand that somebody wants to become nominated by changing the rule in the middile of the game. I thought DNC chairman is a tough person who will stand by the rules.

They BROKE THE RULES. Now they are rewarded with their votes counting, and in fact, possibly weighing more heavily on the outcome that would have been the case to begin with. They should be split 50/50, and thats that. Howrd Dean needs to MAN UP and follow through on this. He's letting the Clintons run wild and do anything they please. It's WRONG!!!!!!!!!

http://twocanpete.blogspot.com
Get the Hillbilly Mafia on the line stat! We're about to throw an election!

Part III
Wake Up America

I love my country because Americans can speak freely about social issues or governmental concerns without the fear of retribution. Our history is young compared to others countries and Americans really need to learn and understand how politics work. We tends to keep electing the same old do nothing politicians back into office. This routine pattern breed contempt and corruption. Why? Because a politician lose insight too address issues and concerns that’s in the best interest of the people and become self serving instead of public serving. The perfect example of this Michigan and Florida redo vote. Should Michigan and Florida hold another primary if necessary? Yes. But not at the expense of the taxpayers. Should these states deny the voters their rights to be heard? No. Also it would be unfair to the DNC and the candidates too cover the cost. In this case the Michigan and Florida Lawmakers and Governors are responsible too all American voters for breaking the DNC rules……
For this reason our country has a term limit set for the Presidency and this law should be adopted to cover every political position in government. Without term limits you have a dictatorship (imagine Bush or Carter for forty(40)years or more). I am amuse by the candidates boasting over their experience too become Commander and Chief. Name one past President who had experience of being Commander and Chief prior to being elected excluding Vice Presidents? You cannot! Being former First Lady doesn't Qualify or having a relationship with Censored Former President. Sorry Hillary and Bill. Being a POW in Vietnam doesn’t Qualify. Sorry McCain. Being a good orator with charisma doesn't Qualify. Sorry Obama . Politics in America is dirty business full of greed, hatred, lies, deceit and these candidates need to show the American voters what factual qualifications they have too be President. Just to think! Black men and women in this nation died for the right too vote. For the first time during a presidential election Americans has a choice between two minorities one white female and one black male. What upset me is how the pundits are manipulating blacks and whites by promoting the race card and sexism between these candidates . This is absolutely wrong and promotes hate crimes! The right to vote was given to all Americans, why are they exclude Hispanics, Asians and Native Americans i.e. . The last time I profile America we're a multicultural nation. Americans need to stop this illegal discriminatory propaganda right now! We need too push for an agenda from these candidates to address the real issues and concerns of Americans, Employment, Healthcare Reform, Education, Inflation, Housing, Taxes, Veteran Civil Rights, Wars, Environmental, Immigration, Homeland Security and National Security. Speak Up and Wake up America let our voices be heard around the world! Don't let pundits make the choice for you. It’s your right too vote and It’s your choice too choose.
H B Smith

As a democrat, I'm glad to see that Michigan is going to have a re-vote, allowing both candidates to campaign and more than just one name on the ballot. As for Florida, I don't think they should be given a second chance. They would only screw things up more.

And yes, I'm from Florida.

Interesting the State that has screemed the loudest can't get their act together, however MI who has gotten everyone on board without any whoopla is the one that will do it correctly.  Sounds positive - way to go Michigan!!!

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